Ronster

Can’t see any difference…

I want to see how a blanket Magenta Cast frame looks on that Technidisc

Also Mike Verta said there are more detail on at least one of the explosions from the end on the technidisc. I would imagine all the explosions would be more yellow rather than white or red / pink.

It’s about the highlights which will look quite different indeed not small minuscule things really given the explosions are a big part of the action.

How a laserdisc has more detail than a print?

I don’t have any qualms about anyones color grading I want to figure out what the extremities are meant to look like because that would be the part that fades first.

I think if we can understand how the highlights have been effected we can understand a bit better what the film did originally look like. I hate the explosions and stuff in the new versions they look terrible and those god awful pink Magenta flashes, they are all small but ruin the experience.

UnitéD2 said:

The technidisc sunset shot looks great to me but… is this really the original look (as you say it is) and not a regrade applied for that release ?

Technicolor frames usually look more purple as Neverar matched the bluray to.

The techicolor print was struck long after the films initial release so it’s accurate but not the highlights or the extremities.

I would say even the sunset shot is still a bit yellow faded in the technidisc.

The Technidisc pressing is more correct, This is what the shot is “Meant to look like”

So what went wrong?

If anyone has the Tecnidisc version please could you post up a frame where the Bright flashes only produce a totally magenta image across the color spectrum in the Blu-ray like the laser Flashes.

Could you also post any images of explosions from the Technidisc also so we can see what the explosions might be meant to look like.

The shot of the sparks around the door of the Tantive perhaps and the tantive explosion.

I tried to fix the horrid magenta discoloration on the sparks around the door…

The Raw footage proves that the sparks were not purple and the coloration of the flames to the walls are incorrect in the blu ray.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_PbbaaDYRU

The theory is that the Technidisc is perhaps the least discolored Magenta version out there in the best quality and the film on the blu ray when in extremity is suffering from severe dye fade and no color information fogging and any other number of detail problems.

Thanks

I think you are being mean… And you are ignoring completely what I am talking about. I am not comparing anything I did with anything anyone else did.

I am talking about a problem in the Blu-ray or 2004 master or whatever it is.

Do you know anything about “fogging”?

Seems like that image on the top left might be having a pretty severe case of the old “Fogging”

But anyway I’ll just Fog off then

“Questions, comments, complaints, nitpicking, over-analyzing, opinions, speculation, and wild theories are welcome.”

This is in the OP…

I tried to look in to what is the cause of Hue shifting and I came across the term “Fogging” when a film is exposed to heat this can cause color shifting in the negative, we also accept that the BLu-ray master is very Magenta and everyone hates the Magenta / pink problem and we want it all to look right without this. Did “Fogging” occur on the camera negative or on the original master or a combination of both?

The overall Magenta problem has clearly been irradicated here there is no complaint or some sort of theory on George Lucus original vision. This looks about right to me.

What I am calling in to question is when we have a full blown “Magenta Moment” and everything is also off base and out of Hue. We typically find these “Magenta Moments” will totally shift highlights out or the brighter parts particularly explosions don’t look right. This is found in the Blu-ray is it also in the prints too? It’s more noticeable at extremities of brightness.

The first “Magenta moment” in Blu-ray occurs when the Tantive blockade runner get’s hit by a laser and an explosion occurs. The explosion looks totally off and the general color also is. Is this also the same in the film prints?

Another example would be perhaps when R2-D2 get’s his head blown up again it looks wrong it’s meant to be white / yellow not pink magenta.

But Luke going totally pink is outside of this there is no extremity in play it totally just shifts out for no apparent reason in to full on “Magenta Moment” and there is little other color information left.

Generally I found that it’s a straight up swap the magenta for quite a lot of yellow but I don’t think there is a one size fits all to to get rid the problem…

NeverarGreat said:

I’m pretty happy with the color as it is, and the few scenes I’ve tweaked for v2 are already done. But if you wanted to make your own alterations to the project, you’re certainly welcome to.

Thanks, No I don’t want to alter what you have done or interfere in your project or your goals.

I wanted to make you aware that this is one of those particular shots we have never seen look how it should look… I don’t mind people re-creating the look of the originals at all, but I do wish someone would go that extra step and well make the version we never seen before. It’s simply “meant” to look like a normal sunset nothing particularly radical, my feeling is something went wrong. You are more than capable have a play and you will see it for the first time. 😃

It does not mean it has to be part of your project or anyones project, but I find it interesting and it’s also most importantly fun…

So if you look at this example it’s more restoration than preservation, It corrects the weird color. Not sure anyone is up for doing this sort of thing though? This is no different than many other weird hue moments…

But I think your version would be a good place to incorporate these sorts of color fixes where it’s all way off. You seen it for the first time again! And I want to add you done a great deal to make the film look the way it should already… You are very much on the right track!

Anyway all I can say is I wish someone would go that extra mile on Restoration there are preservations everywhere and no restorations.

WE still have not seen this film, I mean that honestly.

towne32 said:

I’m not generally sure what you’re referring to many times when you discuss hue. It seems vague or unclear.

Sorry I was trying to help if this is soley a recreation then I apologize.

Luke is purple if it looked like that originally fine… A bit knight rider I guess. Basically it seems to me that the sand and luke should be different, I already said not what I did, it was just to show what could be achieved with that shot. I was not attempting to revise what this guy done just pointing something out.

When I say it’s in the wrong hue I mean the particular shot has shifted out of hue into a incorrect hue. Like the pink jumpsuits at the battle of yavin.

https://diff.pics/mSuyQ0E1JT6u/10

This shot was in the wrong hue… So I changed the hue realized you could color correct the sand.

Not sure it’s something you want to do? I think the shot is lovely as it is that you did but could perhaps be a small bit better? I just did this rough in gimp so I will let you decide on if you want to change it… Not saying this is how it should look either just a rough demo it can be better than this for sure.

You’ll notice the two grey things on the side of the hut pop when you hit the right hue…

DrDre said:

Here’s another shot of the Death Star conference room sequence:

Those both look really good… So you got rid of the Red splodge on his forehead!

towne32 said:

Possessed said:

Looks dark.

Very, very dark. Might want to look into some method of monitor calibration if this looks anywhere near normal contrast for you. It looks like Vader knocked out the power to help with the boarding/invasion. 😃

Yeah I understand. I used a you tube clip and not rip the whole film so I was hiding cans of compression worms. But even though you are right I probably handled it wrong in a lot of instances especially contrast. I appreciate how extreme Dr Dre’s color grade is though. Pretty extreme.

Just realised I missed one Hue alteration the close up when Leia inserts the card the pink light on R2-D2’s dome should be red not pink. And his little circle light might also be in the wrong Hue.

Also when R2-D2 is in the escape pod Blue Light but his Red circle light is pink again for both the blue light shots.

But I got the other 20 odd others.

Ignore the contrast pay attention to the Hue alterations. Which was really the reason why I wanted to have a go.

Dr Dre I like what you have done so much I had a go myself at the whole section.

I got close to what you have but I feel that you win! but I wanted to learn something and that soldier shot was bugging me… Anyway take a look at the grade there might be a few tid bits in there where you feel I win (probably not mind) but it inspired me and I like a challenge but this is not a competition really. Like I said I wanted to learn something and each shot was manually graded and there are plentiful hue alterations too please pay attention to the hues. Wow it really does shift about when you scrutinize it. The version I have is not as bright as yours and that was specifically what I wanted to do experiment with a darker grittier look… The only thing I can kind of question you from what I have seen is what is the Star Destroyer Hanger Bay light color? Is it not supposed to be yellow?

Anyway my effort to grade it is in the link below enjoy it for what it is a shot by shot manual grade that is close to yours but I feel missed the mark a bit. But it’s a good effort to be sure but not as good as yours at least most if not all the time…I won’t ever get to see your lots work so I have to re-create it myself now my computer is not much good.

https://vimeo.com/271888039

I really like something about this though…

I know it’s not totally right but I just want to put this guy to bed frankly. I think he is just so odd one out.

Here’s a sample frame at 1080p:

towne32 said:

The pink flesh tones look good. The actors look unhealthy in your hue shifts. 😃

It looks like you based it on the one particularly rosey faced man. He has probably received more attention on OT than any other character, but yes, he’s a bit red usually. But in doing so, everyone else in yours went from normal to liver failure. 😃

LOl yep I think you hit the nail on the head… I am so fed up with rosy cheeks 😃

Right let’s look at flesh.

70’s Flesh?

towne32 said:

Ronster said:
Could the whole film be in the wrong hue?

What makes you think that? That change perhaps bleached the walls a little more, but the characters’ face look a bit lifeless as well.

Well I kind of believe that this film is in the wrong hue and consistently shifting about in hue. So I am just wondering if there is a magic amount of Hue to bring it all together.

yeah I am just thinking about a variant that stops that pink face stuff though. It was an experiment and if you look at captain antilles jacket now looks proper tan. and the walls are whiter yes the storm troopers are whiter.

Perhaps I over did it. But I think there might be something in it. If you look at picture 9 (going left to right) Dr Dre’s version matches my version picture 13 more or less. Sot it is shifting about all over the place.

DrDre said:

Here are two sets of in-progress shots:

Here are the comparisons to the current release:

http://www.framecompare.com/image-compare/screenshotcomparison/KLZGNNNX

http://www.framecompare.com/image-compare/screenshotcomparison/FBCCNNNU

My opinion this is the best of the bunch of stills that you have posted yet.

Although I would use the darkened corridor Leia gives the plans shot. Similar to the SS release.

Experimental Hue shifting…

Total Hue shifted by +7 and mids balanced only… Could the whole film be in the wrong hue?

Actually the hues are all over the shop. So yeah that is in my opinion the main problem really with it no idea how and why hues fluctuate? But this is one of those films.

I think it would be a valuable discussion and as you have said, it’s not a case of calling out on any detriment on this or any other project but it seems you seem to have very valuable experience in this area. I would say yes please! It would be interesting for you to bring your own experience to the table and explain what is expected when an owner of a film asks you to restore their film and what they want and what they require and within their budget…

So these things are considered… At least I am on a simple level of understanding then.

If you paid attention to what I wrote that was exactly the sort of thing that needs to be avoided…

From my understanding when the prints are scanned they are scanned with light already protruding through the image anyway so that actually means that the light factor is out of the way in a sense.

I would discard specs for bulb brightness and so on because this would be for the throw distance accounting for the loss in drop off from distance to screen so the bulb brightness is simply large cinema Bright bulb small cinema normal bulb. Brighter bulb higher temperature to be expected really.

Screen material is simply trying to improve the surface reflection and better screen material would perhaps be used in the bigger cinemas but in smaller cinemas it would be a shorter throw so you don’t really get much from this one.

Color of bulb is all that it really rests on so you already shined a light when scanning but if it was not the same as a projector bulb which used to be yellowish. So in as much as in an un-technical way of saying it the cancellation occurs between the print and the bulb color only. Anything outside of this is sort of not worth considering.

Williarob said:

Ronster said:

Williarob said:

The DNR version is coming along quite nicely I think:

Ok so I get you are preserving the color of “the print” this is without the light shining through it…

So if this has a purpleish tone and the light from a projector has a yellowish tone would this not equate to the image looking more or less neutral basically what the home video releases tried to achieve?

I find it quite fascinating how when confronted with the problems the answers reveal themselves and you have to do the same sort of thing that has already been done but the full understanding becomes apparent?

But obviously not drastic yellow faces just it comes up neutral in most instances I would imagine.

Possibly, but surely it’s better if I give you the actual colors that are on the print than to pretend I understand the physics involved in shining a light bulb of a certain color temperature through the film with this color and reflecting it off of a white screen?

As Poita said:

poita said:

When it comes to colour, unless you are sitting in a cinema with the print, and doing your colour adjustments based on that, and revisiting them again by watching the print etc. then the grade is going to be revisionist, from a certain point of view.

However if you take a straight scan, and do a ‘one light’ correction to each reel, then the scenes will keep their colour relative to each other. i.e. you can see that the background space colour is lighter in scene 3 than in scene 2, but darker than scene 4. You can see that the Falcon walls are more towards yellow in shot 27 than in shot 14. The presentation will reatin the relative colour and shade values that the original had, so you are closer to seeing how the print looked originally.
Your base might be off, but each scene maintains its relative relationship to each other scene.

Trying to get to the original theatrical presentation colours is a very tricky exercise.

Besides, not all of the Home Video releases are neutral. This early 1982 laserdisc still has green in the wall panels, not the grey of later releases:

No complaints with your process at all, I just perhaps think that it probably overall comes in quite neutral with a light through it.

As far as projection goes there is no 100% value that could be ascertained.

You have various makes and models of projectors and their bulb counterparts which might vary in the light and temperature they put out. You also have to factor in distance drop off from the screen and also what the screen material was as some are more reflective than others. All in all there would be no particular average. All I am saying is if the bulb it slightly tinted yellow which they were… And the print is sort of purple then that would make sense as when combined they cancel out being a variant of neural with a bit of warmth.

That is all really, what I am saying is it’s nothing very drastic from what you have with a light through it. It won’t be radically different from what you have now just that it probably lands on neutral-ish color.

Williarob said:

The DNR version is coming along quite nicely I think:

Ok so I get you are preserving the color of “the print” this is without the light shining through it…

So if this has a purpleish tone and the light from a projector has a yellowish tone would this not equate to the image looking more or less neutral basically what the home video releases tried to achieve?

I find it quite fascinating how when confronted with the problems the answers reveal themselves and you have to do the same sort of thing that has already been done but the full understanding becomes apparent?

But obviously not drastic yellow faces just it comes up neutral in most instances I would imagine.

Original

This is a slightly tweaked cap on the 1992 Mitsubishi LD

Home video Color but I think the skin tones are good.

Wonder if something along these lines would interest you for that part at the start?

Doubt it would apply across the whole film many of the stills you have are great medal shot and some of the others. Anyway I think this home video release might be worth looking in to?

Perhaps too saturated?

I just think this is totally channeling the 70’s and that is all I personally want that nobody ever does… I just can’t help but feel this has a Authenticity about it and that is really what people at home want.

Probably a bit less the Bias saturation and clean the blue crap out the walls.

Ok no worries just that the skin tones grabbed me and I seen that shot posted so many times on here with so many red and pink cheeks but this is the first time I saw the Mitsubishi LD…

ZigZig said:

LD Mitsubishi

Not trying to take anything away from the achievement of your release but wow! Never seen anything of the Mitsubishi version…

I think that one looks the best color in my opinion on that shot.Obviously far less detail, but Curious What the rest of it is like.

Fancy doing another shot for fun?

Did anyone else vouch for going with the Mitsubishi color grading on this part? If you do shot by shot

Skin and cheeks looks the best although it still not 100% correct it’s pretty good skin tones.

Ronster said:

Sticking to what I do best…

Death Star Core Chronology Fix. (small edit)

https://vimeo.com/250166357

Video now matches the sound mix when the video was cut together it was cut in the wrong order so the sound and video did not match. Simply re-arranging the footage and it now works seamlessly with the sound mix as it was intended to.

Re-did this video it now has the whole sequence (I Think?) in chronological order the sound mix was complete for the practically 90% of the re-arrangement. It’s slightly shorter but it’s also tighter and flows much better.

Anyway it’s the best I could do and I think it’s pretty pleasing. Although I wish I had of used different blaster sounds on the couple of occasions I added them but needless to say that is good as it shows where sound was missing. But I would choose different sounds and add sound for the stormtrooper Leia bags when he lands on the floor.

Anyway enjoy this sort of preservation / fan edit I can’t make up my mind what it is perhaps a bit of both?

I thought I had better add it’s only done in rough. But it’s about the timing and chronology and it does need a bit of smoothing out here and there (audio) but I never used any surround mix or center channels did it straight off a stereo track. So given that also it should be a doddle to get this polished audio wise impeccably, and also have a nice video track also. But rough edits are a good way to explore and discover.

I do realize I replied to my self but I found the missing audio part in this trailer so this Is could actually be quite a nice edit to do with the sound of the storm trooper falling on the floor.

https://youtu.be/vP_1T4ilm8M?t=64

For what it is worth I think it has more potential than just an edit as It would restore some audio also whilst fixing the order of events. Nice find anyhow.

I recently got my hands on a press kit for Gladiator by Ridley Scott on the Disc contained an Interview with Oliver Reed which does not feature on the DVD releases so is a rarity.

I figured it was worth uploading and sharing for fans of Gladiator and of Course the Late Oliver Reed as I imagine this would have been one of his final interviews before he passed away.

Oliver Reed Interview link Below

https://vimeo.com/270853679

Kind Regards