Ronster

MrInsaneA said:

darth_ender said:

So I'm hoping to hear more about Victory star destroyers.  A couple of people told me why they don't support it, but have I changed anyone's mind, or is anyone reconsidering?  Some votes were flat out yeses to the extra ships, and a couple specifically said no.  I just think that Victories would blend in perfectly, but would be nice support craft.

Also, I was watching the Clone Wars today, and again saw the BTL-B Y-wings, the heavily armored sort.  I think they were a really cool idea and would be a nice additional starfighter.  Several like the idea of Y-wings bombing the Executor, so if that idea passes, perhaps the this Y-wing could do the bombing run, while the other Y-wings serve more in the starfighter role (as they both have been sort of differentiated in this regard anyway in the EU)/

BTL-B

 

BTL-S3 or BTL-A4 (very similar to each other, former is pilot and gunner, latter is single pilot, shown in the films)

EDIT: I'm also thinking it would be cool to add Interdictor cruisers, as they are specifically designed to prevent hyperspace escape, and it would be more logical to include them to prevent escape.  Thoughts anyone?

I know this is kind of a "prequel mentality" but I think the selection process should be this: we should include ships that look cool. Function doesn't really matter, as we're never going to see them prevent escape. But if they look cool, I'm all for having them.

I think you should consider it more like if Ralph Mcquarrie the concept artist for Episodes 4-6 did not design it then it's not really intended to be there...

I would really hate to see loads of CGI ships at the end it would be pretty horrible, and this is far from conservative... To use existing footage of B-wings and A-wings and X-wings from the other films would keep it looking the same but expand the space battle. a bit. I think it's a big mistake to start putting loads of CGI ships at the end it would be like 2 different films in the same movie.... Atleast thats what I think.

Thats fine It does not exactly have to be how I imagined it, It could end at the droid being jettisoned and he flys off say... Any Ideas are welcome, I am simply trying to conjure the Cliched "toss the briefcase over here" scenes from gangster movies but in a star wars syle it always normally ends in a double cross so perhaps bossk fires and then rebels retaliate and then Bossk leaves.

Bossk on the make eh?

Whatever would work best really... It is of course a triple cross because it was intended the plans would fall into rebel hands by the empire as the emporer explains at a later point.

Rebels Fire because they Don't quite trust what has happened their afraid of a trap....they think that mabey a trap is set now. There Human not that Goody Goody they suspect empire involvement.

Darth_Ender I am just trying to do my best, and I accept your concerns as they are my own also but I am trying to fill the gaps in plot whilst trying to remain faithful to the original effects by using existing footage where possible to maintain the look and feel and expand upon the plot a bit without trying to have to film new footage and be somewhat plausible too that is all.

The main reason is to make the pruposed structure work and it all flow in a timely fluid manner.

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If you wanted to swap the Tantive in my mock up Opening scene suggestions for this no probs but would need to look old and a bit rustier and as non cgi as possible it would also help it feel more different and new as a scene that is.

TV's Frink said:

 

doubleofive said:

TV's Frink said:

AH HA, you used the picture I made to SUPPORT killing Lando!

http://www.ology.com/technology/everybody-please-stop-hating-lando-calrissian/08092011

 

He Died well in Predator?

aalenfae said:

As much as I respect the originals, I really don't think it'd be a good idea to use Shaw. 

People always argue that Shaw IS Anakin Skywalker, but... frankly, the Prequels WERE made, and Hayden WAS cast as Anakin. Hayden is Anakin Skywalker, and for the sake of the Saga, it should be Anakin Skywalker who appears at the end.

Shaw played an important part as the man behind the mask - but his voice and appearance really shouldn't be the basis for the formation of the Anakin character - considering we only can go on what we have in the movies, which is only about a minute or so of an old, broken man's labored last words. 

I really don't see it as disrespect to "rob" Shaw of the last few seconds he appears as a ghost. And for the sake of the full-circle of the Saga, it probably should be Hayden.

BUT! It should NOT be the Hayden we see in the DVD and Blu-Ray. They should have made him look as old as he's supposed to be (What would it be? Like 50?).
So I'd suggest maybe taking Hayden's head from another of his movies where his hairstyle isn't so rouge-like, and maybe grey him up a little bit digitally. If you really want to go the extra mile, add in some wrinkles and you're set.  

 

 

 

And concerning a scene about the stolen plans...
I really like the idea of showing it, but I'm just a little afraid of how it affects the style in relation to other Star Wars movies. This is the kind of scene you'd see in a cold opening, which is a lot more "modern" than the overall retro style of the Star Wars movies.
Is there a way to incorporate this idea more into the flow of the script?  

I like your Mock-up but I think either have the Original Ghost or no Ghost.

Your right Alanfae that's what I am scared of too because I don't want to ruin it and spoil things, like you say more modern may not fit. But the plan is make it ambigous.

My Idea Was that structurly it would go>>>>

New Opening, Plans Stolen we do not see DSII only Endor

Dagobah Yoda Dies luke leaves after he and Obi-wan talk

Vader goes DSII

The Exchange (Plans delivered)

Luke Arrives Tattoine (Beggars Canyon?)

Vader Contacts Luke Meditation chamber (deleted Scene)

Tattoine sequence with Droids / Jabbas Palce /Sail Barge

Luke Falcon Part Ways

Emporer arrives at DSII

Millennium falcon meets the fleet.

And then it's all back on track more or less.

I also thought about adding modified flash backs showing Luke's mind which is what would trigger Vader to contact him. So that he would Imagine Vader Pursuing Him Down the Death star trench whist flying through Beggars Canyon >> Obviously Vader contacts him after this.

When Luke looks at his Hand in the X-wing after Tattooine I also thought about seeing it being chopped off again with the Audio of Lukes "Nooooo!" with echo effect and Vader reaching out to him " I'll Never Join you!" Echoing over the image of Vader reaching out to him. we then cut back to the x-wing and see Luke and the new Line "I need to be alone for a while...."

That is my complete take for the first half... I doubt the Flashbacks would work as star wars does not do flashbacks really. But as it is the concluding part It would help bring some of these momments back to show their history haunting him. Ben has also told Luke by this point that Darth Vader is his father so lukes mind is plagued by the past or atleast that was my thinking.

If these flash back scenes would work would it be worth showing Vader Being constructed from ROTS after he speaks to Luke on Endor... there is a shot of Vader gazing out the window would that work at this point? It's probably the best scene in ROTS too....Just a thought anyway.

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So going back to this I thought I would expand upon what I had in mind for this although It probably won't make it....

The Exchange

Basically this is a short scene which involves handing the plans over to the rebels... I was thinking Bossk and the hounds tooth as we have footage of him from ESB which could be re-used perhaps. Knight Quest the star wars fan-film contains CGI of the hounds tooth but may need a re-texture or re-skin of this CGI Model.

There is no planets here this is deep space...

Basically we would see a short shot of the hounds tooth with a beacon lit... We would then see a new shot where the camera is pulled back much further away with the medical frigate and 2 x-wings coming into closer proximity. None of these ships are moving fast they are moving really slow and with caution. I would suggest using modified footage from the end of ESB Fleet.

It would require a small Audio Dub...and cockpit shot of Bossk

Rebels "Hold your present course....Do you have the Plans?"

Bossk "Yessss, Planssss, you have Creditssss?"

We then see a graphic of credits being deposited into Bossks dashboard computer. The Cargo Bay Doors Open on the hounds Tooth (Knightquest or New CGI) and an R4-D5 unit is sucked out into space there are some good 3d renders of this on youtube so was going to suggest using one of these at far distance revolving horizontally but with 2d rotaion animation so it appears to be tumbling into space.

The Frigate Fires on the Hounds Tooth and the x-wings start to bear round upon him and houndstooth gets hit takes damage but then the Hounds Tooth speeds away and very soon after escapes into hyperspace.

The Last shot is of the medical Frigate and x-wings after this small skirmish. The Droid I assume would be tractored in but I don't think we need to see that.

Anyway that as far as I got and there is footage available to modify and composite but would require the Audio Dub.

Very Bling!

darth_ender said:

Update on voting:

Since I'm for debating this thing till next Wed, I want everyone to know that if you submit a vote and later change your mind, just let me know and I will change how I've tallied your vote.  Change your mind as much as you want till next Wed.

Also, we've had several maybes, so if you want to vote maybe on something, that is okay.

Also, I've had to interpret some of your comments, given that they are not always specific yes, no, or maybe votes.  Depending on how committed you sounded, I put down what it sounded like you were saying for simplicity.

Also, the vote on ships present at the Battle of Endor has gotten varied responses, some saying yes to one vessel and no to another.  So I'm thinking I'm going to allow everyone to specify each vessel type they wish to include (i.e. Mon Cal cruisers, Victory SDs, B-wings, anything else you can think of).  If you simply say yes or no, I'm going to apply that to every class we come up with.

And also, please keep your votes personal.  I know I'm being stingy about this, but the reason is that when people see a trend, they tend to vote with that trend instead of going with their gut, even if that trend ends up not being real.  I want people to really vote with their hearts so we can explore the most popular options thoroughly before throwing them out.  If someone chooses to not vote the way they'd originally intended, it may be enough to sway the vote the other way.  Thanks for all who've participated so far, and I look forward to hearing from those who have not yet, particularly those involved in special effects, since everything hinges on their efforts.  

Why don't you give the mabey yes a +0.5 points a mabey no -0.5 points yes +1 and No -1

That way each idea has a final score the highest points are obviously more favourable.... Just trying to help

This is what got cut off my Vote, I thought I would share it

Executor:

1. A-wing fires missile at bridge - DominicCobb No Keep suicide A-wing run Capital Ships SHould Fire Missiles
   
2. Y-wing uses bombs on Executor – Angel Yes

Lando:

1. Let him die in DSII explosion – darth_ender, Ronster Yes Kill Him and Falcon
2. Let him live as in original film – MrInsaneA NO But IF Killing him Does not Work then yes
3. Make it appear as if he dies at first, then show later that he survives – aalenfae No

Ending:

1. Anakin’s Force ghost appears at pyre scene instead of with Yoda and Obi-Wan – darth_ender No
2. Put pyre scene at very end, after celebrations – darth_ender (Spence’s idea) Yes
3. Remove Anakin’s ghost completely – Ronster, DominicCobb Yes
4. Pyre scene takes place on Tatooine instead of Endor No
5. Remove celebrations throughout galaxy, only showing them on Endor Yes

Some of these ideas I'm reading seem really hard to pulll off like filming loads of new scenes, with people in them Is the persons who's idea it is going to pay for that? I'm not paying for it... I think we need 2 new scenes for the begining, that are ambiguous which could make the structure work but what they should be?..

darth_ender said:

^^^We really seem to butt heads a lot, Ronster.  I certainly don't want to destroy ROTJ.  I also certainly don't want to make a completely different movie.  Have you seen Adywan's edit of ANH?  It's the exact same as the original...only...just plain better.  In my mind, we can make subtle alterations to ROTJ and still tell the same story, only just plain better.  Besides, if we are successful with a first, more moderate take, we now have several resources at our disposal to try a more radical take.

Yes It is amazing, but unfortunatley ANH and ESB are better films than ROTJ but I would like to believe it can be just as good as the other 2... And It will take something radical to bring it on par with the other 2 films, even Adywan knows this.....

Like you said there are alot of ideas floating in limbo but whatever the ideas that get voted in even if they don't work and we have to try somthinng else we should try the rough cut amalgamation for structure then finalise the script as per the best cuts / sequences and make a final collective cut = final script.

This is the hardest nut of the trilogy to crack, and were not doing too badly, it is nothing like the other 2 and is far more complex we have our work cut out.

Darth Ender you've done alot of good work! Don't give up....

I am a practical person and not afraid to say things how I see them and I hope I do not offend you either, but if this Edit is going to be good then we are going to have to thrash this out one way or another, but all ideas need to be visualised or descriptive and encompassing without hindering progress.

I am doing my best and hope to inspire others, not neccasarily my ideas, I need help on them and other people to develop them or even ditch them.

Keep that script.... I feel we need some Rough Cuts of the begining and end of ROTJ amalgamate these low res cuts with change listing and go from there and people will see the script differently also. After the rough cuts review go back and doctor the script after people give their views / vote then we make final cut kepping the more popular choices.

we need another persons rough cut structure or 2.... We cannot all be wrong and we cannot all be right but somwhere between us all "the best" it could be found.

I don't like ditching ideas before they have been fully explored... and it is too soon to vote IMO.

Sorry if you think I am pushing you but, I am doing so for good reason no pressure but yeah I am pushing you, but not to get my ideas in the final cut.

for instance Ray_afraids idea is really good but what do you put in the place of where the emporer arrives at DSII it solves one problem yet to cause another later on. So I will leave it there for now and hope you understand me, when I say things are not quite right yet, and we need and all encompassing solution or revert back to the original structure for the begining

That is very good... I like it, it solves alot IMO.. Perhaps you have nailed what we've been looking for as a solution.

trying to remember what point that the emporers scene comes in at..... after tattooine in the original  I think?

so what fills in that gap then now? it's the Old Chinease Puzzle again eh....Luke and Falcon depart and then we cut straight to Meeting up wityh the fleet again there is no transition timing.....

darth_ender said:

 

All are fair comments.  I think I've been outvoted.  I worked it that way in part to justify the time gap between traveling from Dagobah to Tatooine, and also I kind of liked the idea of a slower start.  However, this is apparently not the majority rule, so I'll rework it.

Ronster has been pushing heavily for a scene where the Death Star plans are stolen.  His vision includes a Death Star, and while his idea seems too similar to ANH, perhaps creating a new scene that contains at least some of the elements he suggests could obtain what we are looking for.

But perhaps the best choice is to put the Death Star first followed by Dagobah, as Spence did.  I'll have to further consider how to show the transition to Tatooine.  Any ideas?

Which opening between these two do you guys feel would be better?

 

As for Lando, though some have suggested killing him, too many, myself included, lean towards keeping him alive.  Sounds like that's probably what we should do, but maybe I'll send out a poll later today or tomorrow regarding the various debated issues.  If new issues arise, we can vote on those later.  I will send out PMs to everyone who has contributed to this project and give something like a week for everyone to read the script and respond.  Then I'll post the results.

 

I am going to steam roller in here and explain my issues with everything so far.

The Structure does not work that we currently have at the start Dagobah >> DSII Vader >> Tattooine. I have attempted to fill this with somthing to fill out the story aswell as give a classic star wars opening and make the structure work but I doubt it would have the same epicness as previous films? Please see my opening storyboard and perhaps somone could expand upon it or have a better idea or feel we should revert back to the original structure. I am not pushing my ideas I simply am pushing to try and make things work better than are currently layed out.

Also the Transition of Luke from Dagobah to Tattooine will need padding out time wise and a new transitional shot of Luke arriving at tattooine which is all fine if it can be achieved. But should we be so bold as to attempt to do this or should we stick to the original structure. there is no harm in trying but I have tried to be as crafty as possible with my ideas only to try and make the structure work we currently have.

I want this project to work honestly and am doing all I can to make it the best it could be, but I don't want to destroy ROTJ in the process either.

We basically have come to a crossroads with all these ideas and thoughts and need to now start making sense of what it is we want to achieve, what is the reason to watch this ROTJ over the original? Should we be daring? should we change some of the events? Should we try to fill out parts to accomodate other changes?

The way I see it is, if you want to see ROTJ then watch the original, if you want to see a different version which is better or worse in some ways then watch this one. Mabey you'll like it mabey you won't.

I don't want to butcher ROTJ but I don't see the point in even doing this if it will be the same as ROTJ as the original so we may aswell throw everything at it and see how it turns out.

I don't care if Lando dies really, to see the millennium falcon go down like a big ball of fire is more about killing the ideal for what the millennium falcon stood for i.e. uniting because of a common enemy thus the empire is destroyed the Falcon would not mean anything either unless you had another enemy to unite and fight together against so it may aswell go out in a blaze of glory... What's to lose? If it makes you sad then thats good in my book that's more than the original did it's way to happy IMO. Or as Alanfae said it might be like a lame Bobba Fett but unless somone tries it we won't know so it's pointless discussing unless somone shows us their imagination. I think he should fly out "yee-Ha!" but have the back lit in flames which slowly consumes the falcon and we see turn into a fireball and it finally explodes over dramatic music.

I don't really wan't to make a ROTJ that feels scared of being what it could be... I can see a much better film in here and my best contribution so far is Luke not telling Leia she is his sister, and her pain makes Luke reveal her to Vader, Vader then begging to tell his sister, vader not a force ghost. This idea is not even up for debate it would seem but that for me is truly making ROTJ a bit more than a kids film. Luke carrys the can

ROTJ the original is a good movie but the pacing is awful especially at the end, this is the clincher in my eyes and you can throw as much special effects as you like at it but you need to make sure we have the best structure at the end in this edit for pacing and fluidity and add tension if it just stays like the original with extra scenes you may aswell not bother with this project as you have not solved anything and perhaps caused yourselves more problems with adding deleted scenes ontop of a movie that lacked tension in the first place.

WE NEED TO MAKE ROTJ WORK MUCH BETTER THAN IT DID ORIGINALLY

Before we go any further Darth_ender should do a rough cut of the pruposed structure at the end.

I will recut my rough cut as it was incorrect in some ways darth ender pointed out.

Can somone else do a rough cut of the end disregarding or incorporating the script or 2 others then we should discuss further these points. This will truly make for good comparison as looking at a page of words is good, with ideas but does not always translate to screen the same way. and if we had 4 or 5 different low res takes on the end structure we would see so many more possibiilities and what is working well and amalgamate these ideas into a whole.

As for the beginiing either we try somthing new or we go back to the original structure? I think we should be daring and try new before we write this off without trying I've seen ROTJ before.....

 

Now what I think we should do is have everyone who's interested in contributing ideas make suggestions for alterations or additions.  The more I think about it, the less interested I am in filming whole new scenes or subplots (I know Ronster will hate me for this :)  But it's up to you guys.

 

I hate you! lol don't be silly mate, I don't want to suggest anything just for the sake of it... I think you will either need to pad out the begining if you keep the structure the way it is Dagobah > VaderDSII > Tattooine or revert to the original structure of ROTJ.... Just my thoughts on this ....

Ok read the script it is largely agreeable to me on the whole as I pointed out already to you previously there is too much flitting around which IMO hampered the original in many ways in terms of pace so not only is it hard to read the last act but also hard to know if your pruposed structure will work so do a rough cut of it IMO. My main concern is the Pacing and this is what needs to be addressed above anything else. For example getting the Emporers death out of the way helps move on to what is going on elsewhere instead of staggering everything out with constant breaks to somthing else before finishing any one particular sequence. It's like being at a checkout counter and the person that serves you go's to do somthing else before finishing the transaction. I can see why they cut the Jerjerrod scenes as it is yet another cut away to somthing else going on in another place. Please I would like to see a rough cut of the last act, you might even change your mind once you do it.....

Can you remove C3PO Lines "I have decided that we will stay here" outside the bunker it's annoying.

Can you remove Luke to Vader "I feel the conflict within you, let go of your hate" it feels too forced and does not add anything to this scene.

I would like to see Luke not tell Leia that she is her brother so I would like that removed and leave Leia in the dark about this fact but thats my take....

I like what you did with Vader contacted Luke whilst Tied up on Endor would perhaps go better there. than on tattooine.

Hard for me to know about the deleted scenes as do not have the blu-ray yet. But would add more tension trying to blow up endor but that would also be a bit suicidal too.

Lando should probably burn out after the destruction of DSII but would need to be made spectacular.

Use more Endor celebration footage from the original as opposed to showing celebrations around the galaxy IMO.

Can we cut Han's Jelousy immediatly after the DSII get's destroyed?

Keep the pyre on Endor... is unneccesary to have on tattooine but it might work?.

I will give it another read later on. But Good Work Darth Ender

I wouldnt mind the editing of the film finishes and when we have th final count of the shots we need i would start making mattes or whatever :)

-Angel

 

I Would offer to do the edit as per everyones final decisions but my PC is not powerful enough.... Sorry! So we need to Find sombody wiling to do this.

my specs:

AMD 4200+

1GB Ram Corsair Twin x ddr3200

Nvidia 7900GT

Windows XPSP2

DVD or Blu-Ray? Deleted scenes might look better at DVD quality? mixture of GOUT & SE Or Despecialized? Need some help here on what are the best sources....

@fishmanlee ignorance is bliss

DominicCobb said:

I feel I need to go with the PT explanation for Force ghosts. In the OT, Vader being a ghost is practically a continuity error. Many people thought that when Jedi die, they just become a ghost. This can't be correct though, because Obi-Wan says that he will become more powerful than Vader can possibly imagine. So Vader being a ghost is a little bit of a head scratcher. I firmly believe Vader should not be a ghost for all the reasons I already stated, and for the reason that it is kind of an unexplained moment. Aalenfae said that when he's editing ROTS, he tries to get rid of anything that isn't explained in the movie. So I would do the same here.

But mostly I think that the Star Wars series is too serious to simply cast the over-happy ending off as part of the fantasy. My biggest beef with ROTJ (and I'm not alone here) is that the movie is way too happy. Vader is EVIL for almost 4 movies. Consequence is necessary. That's why they killed him. Also, it gives the final conversation between Luke and Vader MUCH MORE meaning. I mean honestly, think of that conversation and then think about how Luke and Vader can talk again whenever they want. 

Well said that is what I was trying to get at about not editing the death scene as he can also talk to leia about things too, so why beg luke to tell his sister....if he can tell her himself.

@vladius that vid is taking things a little bit too far lol

Anyway the first storyboard for the opening I completed today... I did my best with what I have to work with as I said I am not the best artist... But I hope you get the Idea and if Angel or Alanfae think they can improve upon this with their expertise then that would be great. Link Below

http://www.mediafire.com/?nczs921vtp0ouh8

it's awfully basic and thats a good place to start I feel as I don't have drawing talent to do what they can do but they should understand the camera shots as I am sure they know the movies well. It is all constructed from existing footage so if they feel they could add other elements or improve upon this I am sure they can as opposed to my crap artwork.

I thought of adding an Audio dub just before the Tantive explodes of "the Force be with us..." If we could have an abandoned bridge shot with a countdown timer would be even even better. but if impossible or people feel this won't work then may have to think of somthing else to complement the existing structure. Suggestions Welcome

Dagobah should come after this Vader Opening will come after Dagobah.

I agree Anakin+Pyre is better than the original, but I am sticking to my guns about not seeing him at all... Please don't tamper with any of the dialogue during Vaders death to make it make more sense because it never made much sense in the Original and is heralded as one of the top 10 best death scenes in cinema so I suggest leave the dialogue alone. Anyway. I checked out wookiepedia about force ghosts and Vaders Ghost is apparently unique in that he did not make himself a ghost Obi-wan and Yoda did so he could complete his training, which is the official explaination anyway. So it's Dead Sith to become Dead Jedi with a little help from others.

So trying to keep track of the new compositing shots not including background mattes or wishlist fixes some are still suggestions and not confirmed yet happening some story some action some transition .... As you say darth_ender we don't want to dump too much on Angel and Alanfae. And neither do I myself as I will have to help storyboard alot of these now also.

Compositing Suggestions so far Chronologically...

1.New opening (considering using a Tantive IV cloaked at the begining now to cut down on workload but still self destruct sequence droid in escape pod only R5-D4 we don't see any bothans re-entry Endor no splash down Main Reason Vader introduced later on after Dagobah)

2.The Exchange (short sequence Bounty Hunter gives plans in deep space via dumping R5-D4 droid out of cargo hold Main Reason Padding Between Luke Leaving Dagobah . Tattooine)

3.Lukes Transition from Dagobah = from space to Tattooine / beggars canyon matte on existing x-wing footage Main Reason Show Luke Arriving and allow for deleted scene putting lightsabre in R2 also

4.Bobba Fett & Sarlac (Removing shot of Han / Removing Beak from Sarlac in some shots Bobba fett & Luke composites when hand shot etc + Removing far away Bantha Herd fix lukes kick)

5.Doors of Shield Generator need to open when Han says "Got it!" Bunker Battle fixes before it's destruction???

6.Chewie Footage ANH DS1corridor composite Running from shield generator.

7.Capital Ships attacking Executor / Star destroyers

8.Expanded Space battle shots.....? more ships / attacking executor / being destroyed

9.Destruction of Millenium Falcon / fireball burning out / exploding

If I missed anything please add to list I will start storyboarding / mocking up number 1 at some point in the coming days and try to do this chronologically. If any other persons would like to storyboard any sequence as I am not the best artist and may have an idea what you would do yourself but will make crude mock ups now I think we need no further additions to this list at present even if they end up scrapped ideas they may inspie new thoughts or be ditched anyway I suggest capping it off here on this list and explore these possibilities then move forward from there.

Vladius said:

I think it would be fine with Mr. Shaw.
I don't understand the need to make the ending more "dark." It's a happy time. The suffering takes place earlier in ESB and in the rest of the movie, where a main character is frozen for a long length of time, and multiple main characters are betrayed, tortured and lose friends (and limbs!) in battle. Princess Leia is forced into a degrading costume to titillate a den of criminals. Luke has to deal with the prospect of turning into his father, or worse, his sister turning into his father, as well as his father's death.
There's no reason for an exhausting bittersweet ending when it can be just sweet. It's a drain on the audience to introduce another complication when everything is over.

What is it that made ESB the best of the trilogy by most peoples opinions... That it was Darker...I don't think that's the answer your right on that Vladius but it did shock us with revelations, and we did care about the characters and whilst showing us failure it also showed us the triumphs. That is more what I was thinking and as Dominic said and darth ender peoples actions must have consequences..Otherwise War is just far too smug.

Every main character who died got made into a ghost bar the emporer...Not too shabby for a full on war that would decide the fate of the entire galaxy.  Just exploring possibilities anyway

I agree with loads of your ideas but make a rough cut for yourself, and see how it works we only have the original footage available to us and perhaps playing with other elements or other existing footage soureces to fill it out. What might look good on paper might not work as well as onscreen and you will also see by music, and sound what can and cannot be done or what will and won't work

Thats my Advice, let that help dictate your vision of the script.. I have spent the Last week tearing this movie apart in my Brain, trying to make it the best it perhaps can be... And you have helped me see many things about it I never thought of.

It will all get worked out I'm sure.

I'd Like to say Happy Christmas to all on this thread and let you know that ROTJ means alot to me It was the first Star wars film I saw in the cinema, if not perhaps the first time I even went to cinema at 7 years old and after seeing it, me and my Dad sat and waited for the next showing and watched it all over again It is a nice memory.

Good Ideas Darth Ender just read your idea and I like it, more realistic Anakin was a wild card...Why they should all be standing together as mates all of a sudden is beyond me too... I think it is a simple composite nothing to difficult to do :) I just thought also why do we even need to see Anakin at all? Why should he be redeemed after all he did? How about he does not get redemption and it was too late. he already admits that to Luke... hmmm That's why he begs luke to tell his Sister "you were right about me... You were right"

Anyways later on

@Darth_Ender

You make a good point that no good guy characters die, but we lose Darth Vader and the Emporer in one fell swoop with no form of sacrifice from any of the rebel characters.... If Lando was to Die he should still make it out the deathstar II but be on fire which destroys the millennium falcon in a later shot. Like a Big fire ball going down. It would also be symbolic like the flight of the phoenix which in mythology means the start of somthing new.

wiki:-The phoenix has long been presented as a symbol of rebirth, immortality, and renewal.

I think this is possibly a good direction to take. We don't need to worry like Lucus did at the time about the next Movie now we know that there will never be one.No need to show the misery of Han either that's war. Han already looked at it like it was the last time he would see the falcon so this was planned and changed later on probably. But if it stays the same as in the original is good too. Possible music scoring over Lando and the falson's destruction would be the creshendo / dramatic pert of Princess Leia theme, this would also be representitive of Leia's new role after the events that have transpired. There is no way you could destroy the falcon quickly it would have to have a massive impact... It really would need to be made affecting Visually and drawn out.

Cannot remove ewoks... Unfortunatley

Try to play with what dialogue we have of Alec Guiness perhaps there is another line from either ESB or ANH that could help this. I liked the part about "your friends ended up saving you..."

Han solo's Jelousy is Lame the Love triangle needs to go it was already resolved in ESB then re-intergrated into ROTJ when Leia frees Han from the Carbonite "somone who loves you" end of Love triangle IMO and I have tried to show you that it's more interesting to keep Leia in the dark about Luke being her brother... She realises she has power she just has not figured it out yet.

I don't personally feel the need to show celebrations all over the galaxy, But on Endor is acceptable and would be happy for the movie to end with the funeral pyre.

I surprised myself with the rough cut of last act albeit before you pointed out the shield was not down when the executor crashes into DSII, but what do you make of this being lukes exit point? I think you need to do your own rough cut regardless of script so you can see why I chose to do what I did. my rough cut needs a revision in light of your respose as I made a booboo.

Don't worry too much about leaving a loose end or 2 it gives a movie more life after you finished watching it... Most of the best films don't explain everything and leave it up to the audience to interpret meanings or what happens now?....or what about this?... And gives you another reason to Ponder and watch it again.

Hope this helps you out with your script btw happy anniversary!

darth_ender said:

We were talking about the Lost Rebel footage in the deleted scene thread.  While watching it (not available at the moment), I noticed some lines that seem to reveal some sort of mission objective.  I remember some lines about taking out a tower.  What objective might this have represented? If possible, how might we even possibly use these lines to reconstruct this plot point in our edit?  It doesn't necessarily have be what they had in mind (for instance, we could use it to show fighters attacking a star destroyer bridge tower (maybe even the Executor!), the shield generator specifically, a cannon tower on the Death Star, or anything like that.

Another discussion (I can't remember where I read it, probably somewhere in the ESB and ROTJ wishlist thread) discussed the inconsistent appearing cockpits vs the ships.  It'd be nice to better match the dialogue of the pilots with the appropriate ships.

But timdiggerm brought up that it might be best to simply film new pilots.  Anyone know where costumes might be obtained for the various pilots?  And I suppose we could composite in the actual cockpits.

could re-use some footage from "a new hope" for the towers might work quite well...Better to have the deleted scenes restored if possible..... What's the audio like on those clips? every thing got -redubbed in ROTJ anyway so it may all need re-dubbing unless somone can do good fish face impressions.

If the source audio is not very good it can be hard to clean up whilst maintaining good sound quality....

all my ideas will generally incorporate 2 mixed elements background foreground composites and an audio mix occasionally

Only want to use existing footage I'm not looking to do anything too fancy :) like loads of CGI modelling would make it too much like the PT anyway and be a sore thumb.

also just occurred to me the lost rebel pilot footage might be better used a way to see the rebels slowly be destroyed, if the Audio is unsalvageable rather than a majority of the time they are on top.

Angels Mattes look very good and would be a nice enhancement.

@ben__danger some good ideas there my fav has to be chewie sliding down the rope to get to AT-ST is a vast improvement!

Evin Jade said:

Just my 2 cents)

 

credit to original Angel's mockup.

lol, did not realise it had already been realised, although I am thinking of storyboarding the shot where he get's up flipped and reversed for a few frames composited on Lukes swing of the lightsabre just before it comes off so it looks as if he is flinching a little to late....

whilst editing it I realised only after the obvious removals of Han hitting his pack you could actually loop bobba flying from barge to barge after luke makes his jump and fighting him forever :)

jonathan7 said:

Just my two cents here, but I really like the idea of Boba Fett being killed by Luke, think it harkens back nicely to Mace killing Jango. I also would argue to keep the original Luke and Leia conversation rather than changing it...

Thanks still yet to see if the complete sequence of Bobba's demise is totally possible...but I don't think it's too ambitious but like you said calls back to what happened before and atleast Bobba gets a hit in also.

Since doing a rough cut of the third act I am all for making Luke want to protect leia but not telling her she is his Sister but it's not all down to me so we shall see what the final decision is, Darth Ender will finish his script and we will go from there. Nothing is set in Stone yet

DominicCobb said:

darth_ender said:

What luck!  Our team may finally be complete (or mostly complete).  Emanswfan is fixing up the deleted scenes and is working on the ROTJ scenes in particular right now.  I'm not sure if he wants to be an official contributor here, but I know I really would appreciate his efforts:

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Star-Wars-Deleted-Scenes-Reincorporated/post/555996/#TopicPost555996

Thank the maker!

Tis good news indeed, cannot wait to get rolling..

[/IMG]

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Concept Art for the exchange

Got to grips with Gimp Editor and this is one of my first concepts don't want to divulge too much about this because I have not figured it all out as a solid concept as yet but involves a short sequence similar to gangster movies exchanging a briefcase. Except the briefcase is a droid. Star wars answer to the USB Data stick hehe....No need for any actors either. "toss the briefcase over here" if you think along those lines and a double cross thats where I am headed cliched scene but in a star wars universe...Bounty hunting lucrative work when you get paid twice for doing the same job hehe.... but not quite ready on submitting the full idea as of yet. You need to click the box to see it on the page for some reason probably advertising.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/713/theexchange.jpg/