Ronster

I have spent a couple of days editing part 1 of fellowship of the ring…

There have been some notable discoveries based on trying to get to the original cut of fellowship.

The theatrical and extended versions of the shire and concerning hobbits do and will gel together perfectly but there is one shot missing of riding through town green dragon. Bilbo looking for the ring is moved to when gandalf arrives at bag end before he knocks at the door. There is some cuts to the footage from the EE but it works much better and fixes all shakey continuity of the sequence.

Whilst doing some re-arrangement there have been 3 instances of missing dissolve transitions. Essentially if shots are moved from where they were originally intended then the disdolve efffect may no longer work or make no sense but also leave shots with fast camera / or static shots held for a while longer than needed or movements for no reason.

The first was given by PJ the envelope with the ring pushes through to the map (Minas Tirith)

The second is an extra added shot of Sauron wearing the ring from prologue when looking the scroll of the ring inscription at minas tirith “a story only fire can tell” the shot sauron wraring the ring is disdlved through from the svroll and then out to green dragon.

The third missing dissolve was frodo holding the ring after hiding from the black riders “what was that?” This disdolves through to Saruman inside Orthanc speaking to Gandalf so we dissolve through the ring complementing the camera zoom up to Saruman in his study.

Found some more missing disdolves on gandalf explaining torture of Gollum to still shot of Baradur

Aragorn singing about beren and luthien dissolves through moon to Arwen and back through moon to Aragorn “who is she?” Positioning of moon is uncanny how it works so well. Later on “do you remember when we first met?”

BTW the shot from TTT of lightning in the sky definitely does not go at weathertop.

Anyway i’m nearly done with the first half of FOTR and will post some clips. Thinking of making a YT channel dedicated to LOTR missing and alternate material.

So I hope you find this interesting…

So I have been looking over the Gandalf arrives at Hobbiton sequence and what strikes me about this part is I really like “concerning hobbits” but in general the theatrical version is that small bit better in terms of continuity and some unique shots that I really like…Which I think I have found also something to gel the two together into a cohesive whole. Certainly the lack of music when frodo runs down to gandalf is superior too. So although I am looking at it at present I am also certain that it can be better with a bit of both and some new editing.

Furthermore I have found in the promo trailer for the extended edition DVD the shot of the Ringwraith (Witchking) stabbing frodo in the (dream) sequence for the metaphysical battle for Frodo at Rivendell with also the flash of the eye of sauron as it is thrust in to his body. So i think it’s a given this effects sequence was finished even though it is shown in a raw bluescreen format with a wireframe mesh over it… Would have been cool to see that just before Elrond says “come back to the Light…”

The evidence definitely mounts that certainly fellowship of the ring and the two towers have rather diffetent cuts with extra bits not reinstated.

Return of the King although it has deleted material There seems to be very little evidence of it being much different other than Sauron in physical form rather it is simply extended. Which I think is very interesting.

There is a petition here to release the unseen footages in a new edition… Please sign and share.

https://chng.it/cKNSqmmzHV

So I found two unused Matte painting or digital mattes.

https://images.app.goo.gl/8hRpU7v9NtvqGyTG6

Where or what do you think this is? My guess is river Anduin nightfall and gollum on the log but I am not 100% sure on that…

The other matte is clearly labelled and it is Edoras albeit without Edoras on the cliff top.

So I feel I have finished pretty much with the prologue edit and restoring “the prophecy” soundtrack prologue but I am not rushing to put it up just yet I am going to alllow some time to let it gestate it’s quite fan edit orientated rather than simple restoration because the story board and games show some visual and audio differences. Whilst this will never be perfect I am pleased with it and it is good.

Going back to when Gandalf visits Minas Tirith in FOTR… I think I got it figured now. We go from envelope to map (Gondor theme) some dialogue from ROTK game cutscene explaining this is the name of the place and that many questions need answering… When gandalf sees the lightning in mordor after this it is now that we cut to barad-dur but we only go to the point before hearing Gollum cry out cutting this out. Then we cut to the city in sunset and the scene continues as is until the video Splices in upon “the ring is precious to me” gollum and Bilbo.

The clearer audio excised from the barad-dur bigature “Shire…Baggins” is for bag end and explaining gollum torture

Please let me know where you think that matte painting goes 😃

Whilst editing the prologue and trying to restore the prophecy version… Upon looking at the story board early prologue there was a scene with dwarves mining that had a previs animatic amongst a dwarve looking upon a prized jewl.

I have also found alternative music for Saruman looking at the book about moria where he talks about shadow and flame referring to the balrog.

As far as I can tell this scene where Saruman looks at the book was meant to come a little bit later to transition between Cahadras and Moria but also the how could saruman not know that cahadras was too dangerous as he created the storm that made them change course. “Where will you go?” “Will you risk?”

Anyway… So if Saruman does not create the storm… upon the speech “Moria you fear to go into those mines” Is the page showing the gate “the dwarves delved too greedily and too deep” was I think to contain the footage excised from the prologue of the dwarves mining and holding up the jewl but then darkness falls the jewl glistening in flames and perhaps a growl cut to the book “shadow and flames” we see the picture of the balrog.

It is safe to assume this is part of the gadalf tripping up amongst the dwarf runes and the line “instead of going over the mountain we shall go under it” deleted line found in the recent 2022 unreleased scenes video before reaching the walls of moria. In the TTT game Aragorn “we have not heard word from moria in many years” or something like that.

Essentially it’s teasing a monster before we see it and also leaving the viewer unprepared for the watcher in the water monster too. Quite clever really.

The alternate music has been found across 2 game releases the two towers gimli secial feature interview and one of the battle for middle earth trailers.

It is possible that this is an unfinished special effects sequence but it’s so clever in how it repurposes footage from the early prologue it’s definitely worth finishing off amongst other special effects shots that never made the films. Only FOTR seems to miss the odd special effects shot bar the slime balrog from the two towers and this is up there with the crows on the river anduin as “special edition” material. Things we wanted to do before we had the time and budget.

Another battle for middle earth game trailer features dialogue from the deleted Elf coucil meeting in Lorien of Elrond saying “The Shadow is upon us” Arwen “The time is now”

So I think it’s fairly safe to assume that the early prologue when it talked of Gondor… When Gandalf leaves for Minas Tirith to research the ring the transition was to push through the envelope (Peter Jackson)… I imagine then we cut to the map of middle earth and then the soldier on the walls of the city. Music theme of Gondor Gandalf “there are many questions that need answering” so the early prologue small bit parts were meant to be reworked into the film at various points as a format of not wasting shots from the excised prologue material. This I think is a bit of a shame as they obviously even in the extended dvd still cut it for time. A Different tone was likely in this scene and diffetent music.

The bigature shots of Barad-Dur are possibly excised prologue material also without the eye on top. I think it’s fairly safe to assume this was meant to be placed at bag End when Gandalf returns to frodo explaining Gollum and when Frodo offers the ring to Gandalf instead of seeing the guy with the lantern from the ferry being killed we see the black riders bursting out of gates of Minas Morgal.

So as this format was established of using excised prologue material in other parts of the film… What of the elves? Not sure to be honest here, but it may have been earmarked for Lorien and not Rivendell… Legolas costume change is a signal that something is missing. This costume can be seen again in a clip in daylight with falling leaves around him. was it merely a reason to perhaps better establish the high kingdom of elfdom? Anyway that I think solves some of the puzzle it’s snapped into place quite quick once you can see the idea.however there is one thing that all these excised prologue material re-worked by design back in to the film share in common.

None of them were re-instated for a peculiar reason.

Some notes on unused music.

The big music change in the film has to do with the prologue.

There are 3 realeased alternatives.

One Ring to rule them all (film version)

The prophecy (alternate version)

One ring to rule them all rarities (released with the book about scoring the film).

So on examining this and personally restoring the prophecy version of the prologue which I will post here at some point the big deviation is the rarities version having the theme of gondor for the Gondorian (and elf) Soldiers marching on mount doom.

This infers that that there was a section removed that had more of the Gondorians simply Marching.

Other than this the prophecy version to me although quite diffetent to the film version is far superior.

What can also be infered is that however this section was structured perhaps when Elendil and Elrond both look up Gil Galad is shown slain burned up rather than seeing Sauron walking This Sauron walking shot may have been for when he approached Isildur. So although built up to be quite a big thing it was possibly something quite short in reality.

If we look at the black screen at the start of the narration by galadriel there is footage to accompany the elvish she mutters which appears in the two towers telepathy conversation. Upon “none now live who remember it” This is possibly visually accompanied by Elrond in Rivendell looking at the painting of Isildur and Narsil or of Elves Leaving for the ships of Valinor. (The beauty of the elves fades). I think the fact that this opening part being on a black screen means that they already knew they had earmarked this footage for use in the two towers to solve the plot change or Arwen at helms deep and thus resulting in frantically recutting the prologue not only for some censorship bits too at the last minute. This must have come as a bit of a shock to loose the very opening shots of the film to the black screen which intrigingly echoes conan the barbarian and how that whole opening played out sans king conan on the throne a missing map and possibly shots from big wednesday mixed in. There are visible signs of it being recut like the ring as it bounces down the rocks being out of synch with the sound and various lack of disdolves and map footage that feels a bit unpolished.

There was a break point where Gollum shown holding the ring in a cave (Serkis make up) with high pitched sound effect driving him mad. This shot ended up in ROTK along with any prologue shots used in the opening sequence. However this scene appeared in the third age EA games adaptation in a video prologue narrated by Gandalf. There was some unique music also found within this which is unreleased possibly a version that was to be the “bag end prologue” Which was then deleted and reworked to be Galadriel opening Prologue but this small section of unreleased music bares a strong resemblance to the prophecy version.

The prologue would seem to have various different snippets that were to be expanded upon at later points too with different music scoring for instance Elrond and Isildur at mount doom was removed but features in the prophecy version in a shorter form and Saron forging the one ring with his own blood although could have been shown in the prologue it was shown in an alternate the council of Elrond sequence instead which remains unreleased. I assume the same for the story of Gollum was condensed and is missing some small part that would have been fully expanded upon in ROTK.

The other bits of unused score which are most note worthy are as follows.

The rarities version for the River rising against the Nazgul had choir section. Which sound quite impressive.

Cave Troll Battle in Moria simply extra music to accompany the action.

Boromir trying to take the ring (Perth Galen) this accents the whole seqence up until frodo falls from the seeing seat. One further note should Sauron’s dialogue “I See you!” Be placed here rather than I think it is Galadriels Mirror section.

Thanks for reading.

So I have been looking at the changelist for Kerrs book edits of the films… Whilst I have been studying up a bit there are some noteworthy things.

Cahadras and the choice to leave and take the path to Moria. Whilst the book remains anonymous about what makes the mountain so dangerous and suggests the mountain itself decided to hinder the fellowship. The film shows Saruman creating a storm… But was this lifted from the two towers as Saruman created a storm over helms deep?

This is a possibility that this scene was repurposed and harkens back to the Ralph Baski movie too which does lend a bit more credence.

The scene with the black Rider looking across the landscape the coming on a hobbit hole “Shire… Baggins” “Baggins, they are all up in hobbiton” this scene was meant to precede Frodo and Sam sleeping in the forest and the animal that wakes them up. Tension building.

When we have the black rider chasing Frodo and leaping on the ferry raft as the black riders depart the scene with the guy holding the lantern “who goes there?” And then is killed. The Black Rider killing was moved from this part at the fery to another part of the film.

When Aragorn does his Narration in Bree about the Ring Wraiths and “They will never stop hunting you” I think this last shot in the sequence shows the Black Riders on the road where the hobbits hide under the tree… This also infers that it was similar to the Ralph Baski version originally where the straddler black Rider stopped where the other black riders passed by. One last thing on this instead of Merry throwing the bag to distract the Nazgul did he instead go after old farmer maggot scythe in hand? I have a feeling althouh only suggestive violence it was toned down pethaps and farmer maggots demise although off screen would be a better reason for the black rider to freak out and leave than the lame bag distraction.

New Line recently expressed interest in releasing an R rated version of the films for which I assume anything that was removed to recieve a Lower age certificate would be re-instated if they did this, but you also have to perhaps look at scenes being re-arranged with the black riders making it less scary and more disconnected.

Going back to the ending of the two towers the scene that bridges The gap between Helms deep victory and Sarumans death is travelling to Isengard and seems to involve legolass reciting a poem to the ents.

One more small discovery when In Rivendell and Frodo awakens and Elrond declares “Welcome to Rivendell” Hugo Weaving was to continue Narrating over the imagery and about this place. Then when Frodo comes out on to the balcony it is here that Arwen and Frodo look at one another… Apparently Aragorn comes and walks off with Arwen to finish that scene off.
The dialogue spoken by Elronds narration can be found in the script.

The computer game “the third age” contains a couple of interesting edits for when Gandalf travels to Minas Tirith to research the ring. Although the narration spoken in the game is probably not from the film It does serve a purpose of explaing that this is the case and mentioning the name of the place. The most interesting part however is when Gandalf highlights “it is precious to me” reciting Isildurs writings we snap to gollum “Precious” Bilbo “Precious” and then back to gandalfs realization that it is the one ring. This I feel is an older edit of the scene that made it over to EA games.

The other interesting dialogue is Gandalf narration over diffetent races arriving at Rivendell which is probably recorded for the game but works well it goes something like “Elrond called a meeting of the different races of middle earth and with them came Boromir son of Gondors steward” this I think is quite needed as Boromir is never really formally introduced and is a very important character. Kerrs edit change list places Boromir and Narsil after the council meeting. This is probably correct.

This is just a quick post about something I noticed…

At the end of the two towers when Gandalf says “Saurons Retribution would be swift” although also adding it’s a long way to Mordor from here too.

I have a feeling that this background with fire in the sky resembles weather top area and this might have been vfx shot and the Reason for Aragorn to leave as Gandalf is fighting the Nazhul in the distance in the book and fire can be seen in the sky. This explains why Aragorn leaves suddenly at least but we are still missing the loot.

That scene at the end of the Two Towers feels very cobbled together and obviously Return of the King was not meant to start with the death of Saruman… In the Video above in the previous post it states that Gandalf and Theoden talk from the parapet of helms deep.

Found quite a good video on many of the deleted scenes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CxqTBTAeBQ

I came across this youtube channel and I thought It would be a good point of discussion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6K6YhoHqTUA

This is a compilation although they have other videos too.

such as Alien Chest Burster redone also (see below)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPME9WKlVw8

Basically I was looking at Jaws recently and came across comments by Richard Dreyfus saying that Bruce the shark should get a spruce up and bring Jaws to a modern Audience in CGI… Which went down like a lead balloon but looking at the video here I can’t say it’s an altogether bad idea as long as you do it subtle which these guys seem to do it quite well.

The Last Starfighter Video is quite good too they have and worth checking out.

Personally as we all know with anything like this you don’t erase the original film ever but I’m curious as to what people think about these mini edits?

they are done very well in my opinion.

Just come across this Ghostbusters Redo also by someone else.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqM4y8-IkNE

Here is a Terminator Redo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdevFNWh4to

This one is good in places but not too convincing the hall way shot is good and a bit here and there.

“Fortress” prision break movie starring Christopher Lambert has an unrated cut only releaeed on Vhs and Laserdisc. There is extra gore that was cut out of the DVD and subsequent releases. It’s around 8 seconds cut not much but still it’s a bit censored and unreleased in modern format.

Although your qualification criteria regarding TV cuts when it comes to “Angelheart” It’s the complete reverse. Although the film was censored for TV the cut supervised by Alan Parker to remove nudity could be considered superior in that it it has unique footage that helps explain the story better. The TV broadcast version has never been released. So this one can’t go on your list but I’d like to log it as a unique cut.

fmalover said:

Frank Herbert stated in multiple interviews that the whole point of Dune is “beware of charismatic leaders”.

And never put Slug like worms in charge either 😉

Did a sound mix for Tosche Station Part 2

https://vimeo.com/manage/videos/660660652?embedded=false&source=video_title&owner=30472256

Subjective but I think it’s a pass or good enough music scoring & sound effects. Ran out of steam recently bit down so far this year.

Shame that I’ll give you a quick reference on that Yavin Take off shot coloring I was on about.

https://ibb.co/YThnxtJ

This feels like it’s corrected composite to me and if you are gong technicolor look then I’d say this is a good blend.

Good Luck

Dune deleted scenes info.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XEjtmQ9_fk

Seems like a lot was cut as previously stated.

And you did’nt include this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMxRDTfzgpU

Oh sorry never knew it was there already oops! 😃 Still have not seen it yet.

It has the Truck music from Raiders and the Indiana Jones theme music by the Sound of it mixed together…

I agree that I prefer older horror movies but without writing off everything new…

Give “Ritual” a try best modern horror I seen in a while.

I’ve also heard “the empty man” is good although I am yet to see this one. It was directed by the guy who used to put all the bonus stuff together for David Fincher movies which actually were good special features. Let me know if you bother to check it out… Can’t get a physical release of this one just yet or not easily anyway.

I watched Vampires los Muertos recently and it was not that bad in fact it was pretty good all the hallmarks of a good cheesy horror from the 80’s there is an unreleased gorier version as per the director commentary.

Bad Moon is also a good classic werewolf meets K9 type of film hood fun that one by Eric Red.

Also “Monkey Shines” George A romero was a lot of fun too.

declanfiore said:

benduwan said:

i have many star wars scenes that need be upgraded…it´s a lifetime work…😃

I’d love to help if I can!

Thanks for coming here and saying hello…

Although this is a Star Wars Forum and we all Love Star Wars…

Conan the Barbarian to have a full restoration of the Myriad of scene that were excised is the pinnacle of my film restoration dreams. I heard Arrow might be working on that soon? but I sincerely doubt anyone has the guts to piece it back together given the gore and so on let alone because John Milius is not in such Good shape. If I had one wish this film would be Re-cut in the most extravagant brutal fashion.

David Lynch’s Dune is another interesting film that also has a lot of never before seen material and known cut material which we know Arrow wanted to get on to that extended cut but it has been refused full international release. The problem with that extended cut is very much Audio and Music Cue related but there is many scenes missing from the last 3rd of the film amongst the shoddy Audio in the Extended cut which would require a complete redux.

Finally I suppose I’d like to see any extra material from American werewoif in London although apparently the film OCN the outs and trims were destroyed yet Landis pulled some material out his Garage.

Another couple films I personally feel that could be worth a restoration effort is Tarzan the Legend of Greystoke there is a further 25 minutes of scenes of young Tarzan and the Rick Baker Ape puppets and is the Directors Preferred Version. They restored a lot of the Albert Whitlock Matte Paintings and the intro but it stopped there rather than the full directors cut.

I also heard about the very ending of Somewhere in time with Christopher Reeves and Jane Seymour got a bit botched in the editing room and was shortened messing the music up too and the ending theme is not the correct version that was originally released for the credits theatrically.

The Champ the boxing film would also be definitely worth a HD restoration

I suppose it’s not a bad list there but nobody has seen the footage we only see pictures or heard about these. But they are real aside from the champ.

The Good the Bad the Ugly is one of those that although some of the footage has now been found it could do with voice mimicking from audio software to make that properly work as the dubbing is poor or non existent in English.

Star Wars DEED Death star gunner (crushed blacks) V2.7

The shot of the gunners preceeding porkins “i got a problem here” the floor and pipe is gone from the image. The floor could be Luma keyed in from another source if aligned correctly with the Blu-ray fairly easy to fix.

Tosche Station Part 2

https://vimeo.com/manage/videos/660660652?embedded=false&source=video_title&owner=30472256

Hope you enjoy the clip deleted scenes Have been inserted as if they were part of the film as always scored and added foley effects (used droid sound effect from ANH revisited special features) Audio has been cleaned up considerably just need someone to clean up the video now 😉 I hope doing this what I am doing, it will create a drive to getting that done.

Fixed vertically stretched shot of R2D2 when he goes off into the mountains always been something I noticed.

Re-edited transitions to make the deleted scenes work as part of the film and placed deleted scenes in their correct placement.

Used Still of Tosche station (Mike Verta) and added Landspeeder Model element created for the Special Edition this was cut out and luma keyed in with a 3D DVE.

https://ibb.co/gwM8rqg

Just need to Add the Womprats now 😃

Hope you had a good Christmas and Happy New Year!

Grand Master_ Luke Flywalker said:

Well, I appreciate all your hard work, it all paid off!

Thanks… For the Y-wing bomber shot I am going to replicate the shot also but I am going to make the Y-wing in the middle bigger scale and you will see the yellow on the craft. So I’m quite looking forawrd to that because it will have the last note of that music co-incide with them diving how it should be. It was something that I have only just discovered as a music synch error.

Vaders Tie fighter display will have a different background but the display will be the same.

The death star gunners also now have a targeting display too for one shot and it’s a shot I am very pleased with and something I planned for ages. It works great.

For the techdome I will not be touching the slapstick at the end no edits on that.

Grand Master_ Luke Flywalker said:

I think the new clip looks great! Love the new footage, where’d you get it from? Is it CGI or unused miniature shots?

I found the cockpit background on the internet not sure what it is from…But I thought that looks like what I imagine the screen below the main hud screens would look like it matches aesthetically.

I then put the target screen element in the background… I then had the yellow target lock version of the screen for which I did an eclipse vignette between the two images and then that video from that transition is played in reverse to create the lock on effect.

The Tie fighter element is from “droids” cartoon luma keyed in animated and opacty shifted.

A glow was added overall.

It took all day.

I ripped the 1997 five star and gout yesterday and I am a bit torn on how to sort this out as in the quality will be really naff but I have started contemplating perhaps using the color match tool on the 1997 shots perhaps on a better quality source. Whilst doing an edit for the deathstar gunners I thought there was a missing matte element but it’s just crushed blacks all detail gone no floor in the shot anymore so yeah I could luma key in that detail but still not sure how to proceed really on this video wise it’s a tough call.

4throck said:

Not bad, but the display needs to add more to the scene. We need to see Luke adjusting his joystick and external shots of the fighter responding, between cuts to the display. As it stands is a bit static.

Also, the fighters maneuver slow on the external shots, medium on the cockpit shots, and fast on the computer display!
Shadows and rotations are consistent, nothing wrong there, but speed isn’t.

I know I’m nitpicking, but I think you appreciate the input 😃

The Special Edition does have that sort of movement and we can see Luke controlling the craft on the cockpit shots.

I simply tried to copy the movement of the original shot, and I don’t think it’s particularly much difference in that and the new display (although it’s wider) but something I think I it may need is I slight tilt of x axis perspective on the tie fighter element I think that on the first one but on the second one it will stay as is.

Slowing it down a bit and using a bit less of that first shot might be a good call though… Good shout

benduwan said:

Bobson Dugnutt said:

The bloopers are partially on the Ep3 2020 disc, but they’ve been cropped and have been re-encoded to 30fps or something because there is some significantly bad ghosting. I’ve never heard of it being on iTunes before though, but I’d love to see it if it is

could your next project.all star wars mistakes from the ot in one video…😃

I see projects within projects 😃

https://vimeo.com/manage/videos/659068183?embedded=false&source=video_title&owner=30472256

This took ages to do I think it’s ok… It will be to compliment the Special Edition shots…

Goal here was realism as best as I could make. I am going to have to make this better as the first scene does not match the last visual edit but it give a flavour of what I am trying to do in terms of the displays/

Bobson Dugnutt said:

The bloopers are partially on the Ep3 2020 disc, but they’ve been cropped and have been re-encoded to 30fps or something because there is some significantly bad ghosting. I’ve never heard of it being on iTunes before though, but I’d love to see it if it is

I don’t think there was that much in it but If I recall correctly these clips were included with a book which also had a digital version.

Anyway basically the process at this time is to do the audio mainly and for this part Battle of Yavin and the begining is the most complex switching between mixes and extra sound effects and various re-arrangements and the odd new shot. So I think perhaps getting the hardest parts out of the way first is a good call as the other parts won’t or should not take too long.