In my opinion, if anyone could take some blame it probably would be Bob Iger for feeling they needed to get the company’s ROI as soon as possible.
Do you guys feel that Zorri and Jannah were introduced strangely as potential love interests for Finn and Poe? I feel they wanted to make it clear they’re not gay, or something.
God, Nev, I read your review drunk and I was having vertigo afterward. It was dizzying but super on point (Also I can tell you might be a D&D fan, which I appreciate). I’m also surprised how your theories regarding Snoke lined up as well as it did with what we ended up seeing.
I agree with NFB. A better director would have taken where both TFA and TLJ left off and progressed those stories through synthesis. I don’t think Abrams did that whatsoever. It is like he kept what he liked from TLJ, and blatantly retconned what he didn’t like.
That is an interesting idea Ash! Maybe you could just cut Maz’ line to help imply that.
That’s also an interesting idea you had DigiMod! Maybe your new TFA could start with an alternate ending to ROTJ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsEkLGQthMk
And even though this movie is so wonderful in its shlockiness…
Haha, I really appreciate the optimism in this community. I have a feeling many of us will have varying viewpoints on how to change the movie, but I really feel like if we put our heads together we could really accomplish wonders.
Is it just me or does it seem that they were pushing Rey and Kylo Ren as a “dyad in the Force”, but then changed Rey to a Palpatine in reshoots?
Here is some thoughts on potential deleted scenes:
• Kylo Ren and the Oracle
• Extended Luke and Leia flashback (I doubt the visual effects were even completed)
• Maz gives Rey a pep talk before going to Pasana.
• Lando talks about his long lost daughter.
• Kylo kills Hux.
• Lando talks to Finn back at the Resistance Base.
I feel like a lot of deleted material would be the trimmings of the scenes we mostly got, or original versions of scenes before they were reshot.
I wanted to share a quote from this interview with JJ Abrams from December 7th, 2015.
I’m not someone who quite understands the science of the Force. To me Star Wars was never about science fiction — it was a spiritual story. And it was more of a fairytale in that regard. For me when I heard Obi-Wan say that the Force surrounds us and binds us all together, there was no judgement about who you were. This was something that we could all access. Being strong with the force didn’t mean something scientific, it meant something spiritual. It meant someone who could believe, someone who could reach down to the depths of your feelings and follow this primal energy that was flowing through all of us. I mean, thats what was said in that first film!
And there I am sitting in the theater at almost 11 years old and that was a powerful notion. And I think this is what your point was, we would like to believe that when shit gets serious, that you could harness that Force I was told surrounds not just some of us but every living thing. And so, I really feel like the assumption that any character needs to have inherited a certain number of midi-chlorians or needs to be part of a bloodline, it’s not that I don’t believe that as part of the canon, I’m just saying that at 11 years old, that wasn’t where my heart was. And so I respect and adhere to the canon but I also say that the Force has always seemed to me to be more inclusive and stronger than that.
It’s hard to believe this is the same guy who decided Rey Palpatine was the right decision for this story.
Might just be a rumor but I recall hearing Kennedy asking Johnson to do IX before Abrams. Johnson wanted to do Knives Out though.
For a lot of fans it apparently does.
Then why was her father a nobody? Did the power levels just skip a generation?
I just wish fans could accept the Force awakened and things are different now. I feel like the new movies tried to bring back the Force as this mysterious power beyond total understanding, and Abrams ironically fell back on midichlorians. “Rey has Palpatine’s high midichlorian count! It’s gotta be at least 20,000 if not more!”
I appreciate your willingness to discuss this Shopping Maul! Don’t get me wrong, I did have fun with the movie still, these are just some of my issues with it. So I’m not criticizing you or your enjoyment, just the story decisions of the movie.
Yep, and to appease the Mary Sue people.
I just think having Rey’s power being tied to a male bloodline feels so lazy and totally defeats her purpose in my eyes. And regardless if you feel she needs to be related to someone, I think cramming all that information into the last movie was a mistake. If they wanted her to be Rey Palpatine, they should’ve told Rian that’s the direction they want to go in. But once his movie was out and she wasn’t, Abrams should’ve continued painting that picture rather than trying paint over what was already on the canvas.
Regarding why Palpatine goes from wanting her dead to wanting her to kill him and take his place, I think he changes his plans after Kylo turns, make him unusable. So he decides to use the Resistance fleet to goad her into killing him so he can possess her.
Alternatively, the whole thing could be Palpatine wanting to choose the strongest vessel. If Kylo kills her, it kills two birds with one stone. If Rey kills Kylo, she’ll still come to him and have proven herself stronger. So when she faces him he could say something along the lines of this (if possible), and then use the fleet to force her hand.
For Rey’s identity, I basically think there are three options, ranking from most preferred to least:
• She is no one.
• She was created by Palpatine.
• She is Palpatine’s biological granddaughter.
If we are stuck with Rey Palpatine, maybe we could explore ways it could be better set up throughout the trilogy. The one interesting thought I did have is that if Rey is a Palpatine but we had Ben Solo survive, a Palpatine and a Skywalker creating a new Jedi Order together could be an interesting implication that this new generation of Jedi will be different, along the lines of what Outbound Flight said.
I need to think more about the actual moment of Palpatine’s death, but I do agree something needs to be altered with it. I think it would be funny if he said, “I’m all the Sith” and she said, “I’m no one.”
Does Poe voice his character in the LEGO game? If anyone says something about contuing the fight, I think it is most appropriate if it is Poe.
I think it would be interesting if Rey’s outfit was half white, half black throughout, sort of like Snooker’s mock-up of Obi-Wan’s robes in TPM. And if Ben survived and showed up in the final scene, maybe he could have a back/white outfit as well. At the very least, this could be applied to Rey’s costume in her final scene, symbolizing that she has accepted both the light and the darkness in her.
Speaking of the ending, here is my very radical outline for an alternate ending of TROS:
We cut away from Rey and Ben before he dies. Rey joins back up with the Resistance and they celebrate.
Fade to black on Celebration.
Fade in on shot similar to first shot of A New Hope. A Resurgent Star Destroyer flies overhead, followed by dozens of Resistance ships chasing it. At the front is a modified Blockade Runner, in the control room sits Poe Dameron. (Or possibly leading the chase in an X-Wing that Poe sits in with BB-8. If he is in his pilot suit, change the color of his jump suit to blue New Republic colors.)I feel him being on the bridge of a ship would clearly visualize his transition to hotshot pilot to responsible leader, but he was still flying an X-Wing during the end battle. Anyway, this could be the moment Poe says something inspirational over the comms that could also help emphasize “General Poe”.
[This would require a fan-film scale production, but I think it is rather straightforward idea-wise]
On the outskirts of a rural village, locals gather outside as three First Order troop transports land nearby. The bay door opens, but instead of stormtroopers we see rescued children rush toward their emotional families. After all the children are out, we insert footage of Finn standing behind them (Potentially either Luke or Leia’s lightsaber is attached to his belt if you keep his Force subplot). This would reflect nicely with how we are initially introduced to Finn, and would bring his arc full circle.Bonus Idea: Have Chewie finally go back home to his family on Kashyyyk. You could just create a modern version of this image, have Chewie step into frame, then cut to a close-up. Chewie deserves more than a goddamn medal at this point!
Finally, we get to Rey. She flies across the dunes of Tattooine and lands outside the abandoned Lars homestead. R2 and 3PO are with her, and still-wiped 3PO says there is something familiar about this place. Rey briefly explores the home, then sits outside and unrolls a cloth full of saber parts. In an insert shot, we see as she uses the Force to construct a new lightsaber. She activates the saber to reveal a yellow blade.
She then senses something ahead of her. The twin suns slowly rise above the horizon, and with them, a silhouette of a figure rising over the hill. It’s Ben Solo. Rey smiles and rises to meet him. The spirits of Luke, Leia and Anakin watch from a distance. Our final shot is of R2, 3PO, and Rey watching the sunrise as Ben slowly approaches.
I think that there are too many threads that would get tangled up by trying to intersect the movies too much.
I think the movies could be set up politically this way:
TFA - There is a cold war between The New Republic and a newly unified Imperial remnant known as the First Order. The Resistance is on a mission to find the last Jedi. The First Order launches a surprise attack on the New Republic.
TLJ - War rages across the galaxy, but things aren’t looking good for the crippled Republic. The Resistance struggles to survive as they try and hold out for Skywalker’s return, which is why Snoke lays siege to their forces in particular. Luke makes a heroic stand against the First Order and ignites a spark of hope throughout the galaxy.
TROS - Despite the First Order’s significant hold on the galaxy, the hope Luke inspired has ignited rebellions across their territory. Their resources are spread thin, and they’re desperate to find a solution. The new Supreme Leader, Kylo Ren, goes on a quest to find the source of his old master’s power.
The important thing, in my opinion, would be to find ways to foreshadow the existence of Palpatine in the previous two films. Maybe Vader’s helmet in Episode 7 could give Kylo a vision that hints toward Palpatine involvement. Things could be thrown into Rey’s vision as well.
When Snoke died, we could see the “blue flames” drift away from his body to imply a part of Palpatine’s spirit left it or was destroyed. This idea could also be applied to Vader’s helmet, and we could alter a scene in TROS to make it look like they accidentally destroy it and a “blue flame” dissipates from it as well.
I would also cut out any lines regarding a “Final Order” and let people assume the red troopers and other red dressed Imps are just First Order. I don’t think the implication should be there is a whole other Imperial remnant hiding deeper in the Unknown Regions, just the Sith Cult and the Emperor’s hidden Imperial armada.
Luke calls her Rey Palpatine, so that would have to be cut around.
Instead of a Rey Palpatine story, the narrative could be changed to where Palpatine shows Kylo a vision of Rey’s future, and it is her as Sith Empress. Rey sees it too, which is why it scares her. Maybe he says he saw a vision of her sitting on a throne next to him. Which causes Rey to call him a liar and such. You could replace the visions of the past with visions of the future.
This is my train of thought. Palpatine could reveal to Kylo Ren that he made Snoke, AND he made Vader, revealing he created Anakin and in effect making Kylo his heir. But, he wants Kylo to kill Rey because he has seen a vision where she destroys them. Kylo has other plans, and when Palpatine senses that Leia has turned Ben’s heart, he decides to try and use Rey as his new vessel.
To me TLJ ended with Kylo having everything he thought he wanted but has nothing. And in TROS, he feels he is in too deep. “You can’t go back to Leia now, just like I can’t.”
Not saying it couldn’t have been handled better, but I The way Kylo ends TLJ, with his father’s dice fading from his hands, doesn’t feel like a villain is happy where he is.
I think the best way to make Starkiller just a Base could be something like this:
The Resistance needs the second half of the map, and Poe knows it is on Starkiller Base because Kylo told him during his interrogation. Han and Finn sneak onto the Base and get Phasma to give them the map, but the First Order is alerted to their presence and engages a planetary tractor beam that will prevent any ship from leaving the planet.
Black Squadron flies in to try and disable this tractor beam (the oscillator) so Han and company will be able to escape. The squadron wonders where the rest of their fleet is.
Meanwhile, we see the First Order’s Fleet surprise attacking the New Republic homeworld.
Poe manages to destroy the tractor beam after Chewie blows a whole in it, and after their duel with Kylo Ren, they escape the planet.
I do think that Starkiller could provide some benefit in the long run, but that might be worth discussing later.
Speaking of the First Order, I definitely think that the First Order should be framed as the reunified Imperial Remnant, in order to separate itself more from the Sith Fleet. Nev’s most recent TFA: Starlight crawl is a good example of that direction. I basically picture that you could frame the galaxy as somewhat split between factions, like 60-40% or 70-30%.
Broom Kid shared this very well-written review of the film.
https://www.filmfreakcentral.net/ffc/2019/12/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker.html
Reading it has given me a few thoughts…
I think as time goes on I’ll continue to ask myself why I want to spend so much time trying to fix these movies. These movies have been such a big part of my life, and I really feel like it is a modern myth that has the ability to share important messages to people of all ages.
At times I do think about how I feel like this myth lost its soul at certain times throughout the years, and with it is potential to be an even more powerful story than what we got in reality. But fan editing itself is an act of rebellion. We are not bound by the market, studio execs, or even the fans, only by the material we have to work with.
I still think there is enough in these films to make them more powerful and thoughtful stories. The reviewer touches on Campbell and the monomyth, and how TROS fails to live up to many of these ideas. I think this is something to keep in mind when thinking about edits in the future.
This reviewer has gotten the phrase “healing wounds” stuck in my head, and I think this is one of the themes that was present in the film, but not as strongly as it should have been. Not only healing physical wounds, but healing one’s spirit, healing relationships, healing the galaxy, and even healing the Force. This is something I’ll have to keep in mind.
Dom has given me the idea of a totally alternate ending that would certainly be radical, probably the most ambitious addition I’d want to implement, if I go through with making edits of the whole saga.
Speaking of which, I don’t think Palpatine laughs once in the entire film, which I think should be amended.
EDIT: Regarding Finn’s story-arc, I kind of wish there was a moment between Jannah and Finn where Jannah is reluctant to come out of hiding and join the cause, and Finn convinces her why they have to fight, just like how Rose convinced him.
I hate fan petitions but I wouldn’t mind for there to be a politely written petition to show an interest in an extended cut, or several deleted scenes at least.
Just saw it again. I liked it more this time around.
Love the idea of making Leia’s saber purple!
This probably would be a crazy idea but what if we added details to the Resistance planet to imply it they’re hiding on jungles on Naboo? You could regrade it to match Naboo more and potentially add those elder heads in different places in the background. I just feel like if you want to make a new planet, make it look new. If there isn’t something that makes it unique, then it could’ve easily been a place that can help ground the story in a world we’re familiar with.
I see the supposed rejection of ROTJ’s ‘happily ever after’ as more of a reaction to ROTJ than anything else. People seem to have forgotten what a disappointment that film was, not just to many fans but to folks who were involved in the films. I’m pretty sure that’s why the comics had Luke turn to the Dark Side in the 90s, or why we have a ‘disillusioned Luke in exile’ in TFA with Han having his long overdue death scene. Not everyone left the 1983 Ewok party feeling satisfied. I’m more than happy to see ROTJ as ‘a’ victory and not necessarily ‘the’ victory.
But at least ROTJ had some powerful themes at its core, even if everything ended a bit too neatly. TROS essentially redoes this ending only much bigger, and louder, but ultimately much less effective imo.
Agreed.
A couple of minor fixes:
It’s weird that Leia dies, but her body waits to disappear until Ben’s body does. Moving that shot to right after her death would be pretty simple.
They make a point of saying how nobody answered their distress call from Crait, but then the explanation for how they get the MASSIVE fleet at the end basically boils down to “Lando made a few calls.” Cut the earlier line, and then imply that the closing fleet is simply the payoff for all the recruitment the Resistance has been doing over the past several months (or however long it’s been since TLJ).
I think the idea was that Leia was waiting on her son? But I just assumed they disappear as soon as they die. You would run into the issue where Poe talks in front of her body.
I had that thought about the ally comment as well. It is a nice little interaction, but I do think there should be an implication that the Resistance is growing. I don’t know how you could cut that line but keep the bulk of that scene.
Is there anyway we can fit in the message that the fight against evil will always continue or something like that? This is what I’m thinking. Before Palpatine dies we once again hear his line “I’ve been killed before,” or whatever it was. But there has to be some sort of response from Rey along the lines of “we’ll always be there.” Then you cut out the shots of all the star destroyers blowing up around the galaxy. What I’d really want to is instead of a hug party, to have a scene where they come back hugging, get a transmission about the next mission to stop the FO, and then head off. Then the scene with Rey on Tatooine. Don’t know how to do any of this.
Interesting ideas. I think we’d have to see what Daisy Ridley lines we’d have available. I could see something like
Emperor: I’ve been killed before.
Rey: I’ll be waiting. (From, “I know all about waiting.”)
To imply the fighting will continue, I could picture a few things. Maybe you could create new space scenes with some decent cg ship models. I could imagine a shot that mirrors ANH, where a Star Destroyer is being chased by dozens of Resistance ships. You could insert Poe into this scene somehow, either in an X-Wing or on the bridge of a cruiser. In general you could expand this idea and have different types of ship/space sequences that could help imply that idea.
You would have to film new material, but I would still love to see something with Finn that would imply something with Stormtroopers defecting or going on a mission to liberate children from the First Order.
