That is a good point Sherlock! Even if we didn’t create a new scene, we could perhaps fit it in when we see the Falcon, and the other ships launching from the Resistance base.
Yeah, that show is super professional looking.
I’m really enjoying the show. I made this same point about some of the Mando episodes, but I think I’m really loving how the show so far feels like a DnD campaign. The Bad Batch feel like distinct classes, and each episode feels like a game session. I don’t know how long it will last, but Cid feels like she will be their new quest giver. Seems like if this was a DnD game, it’d be really fun to play.
YES! This is exactly what my father and I said. I wish we could actually use it for our Apple TV screensaver!
The Lando message is good! I can’t even tell it was a phone recording. It seems like you used a radio tuning effect on the audio, but it’s not a very Star Warsy sound, if that makes sense.
I know it isn’t included with a hologram, but I wonder if you could a sound effect more like this.
I know originally the suggestion was that the audio would be included with the shot of the Imperial shuttle going through hyperspace, but I think it would also be fitting to show a shot of the Falcon in hyperspace as if it is transmitting the message as it flies around the galaxy, and/or maybe back-to-back establishing shots of random planets, to imply these are some of the places that are receiving the message. It could be a good way to set up planets like Coruscant, Bespin and Naboo revolting at the end of the movie, because they got the message from Lando earlier.
EDIT: I also like the more demonic sound of the Emperor clip. I hesitate to say it is a little too demonic, but sometimes you can be too subtle. But it definitely does sound closer to how he sounds in Revenge of the Sith.
I like option 1 a lot more. I think the ambiguity would give viewers something to chew on.
I think it is funny that Kylo apparently had to figure out where the second Wayfinder was on his own when Palpatine could’ve just told him that it was in his vault on the Death Star.
My guess is that Kylo was able to translate the dagger, that’s how he knew. But we’re never told that, and it’s never even hinted at. This is a pretty cool way to show how he knows.
I know Hal already mentioned this, but I think it would be good to put some of our brains together and see if we can hammer out the whispering dagger stuff, and decide if we can pull it off or not. I know Sherlock has already made a lot of examples for how many of those scenes can be altered.
Just a refresher, the main changes that needed to be figured out were:
I think that covers it. And like I said before, I know Sherlock and others have made versions of most, if not all, of these changes, but it would be to good to go back and review them with fresh eyes. Perhaps Sherlock, or someone else, could collect the most recent versions of those tests that we’re shared into to a new post for us to revisit.
While I originally proposed this idea, I’m not necessarily adamant about keeping it or not. If it can work, great. If not, fine by me. I also did want to remind us of what I found to be valid criticism from Jar Jar Bricks. Basically, he worried that the audience wouldn’t understand why Rey was given a vision the second time she picked it up on the Destroyer, but not the first time she did in the Pasaana caves. Because, visually, the movie doesn’t show Rey doing anything different between the two moments she is holding the dagger.
I wonder if we could change Rey saying “No” to “Show me”. Not sure if that could be achieved by starting the vision as she is saying “me”, or more technical mouth movement effects, but it might address this concern. Or we could hear her thinking “Show me” with some other sound effects before we see the vision. (And to reiterate, I say vision, but I think it should be basically a flash. A quick glimpse.) I also think it would be good if she didn’t hear any whispers in the Pasaana caves.
I know some lamented the loss of 3PO’s Babu Frik line, which the version would require removing, so if we did go through with this change, it would be nice to find a new place for this line somewhere else in the film, either with the stormtrooper or maybe with R2 back on Ajan Kloss.
Another compromise might be to have the translation still say that the Wayfinder is where the last Death Star fell, but mention that only this blade tells those who tap into the dark side where to find it. I originally wanted to implement the more drastic changes because I felt it was easier to understand if the dagger was an ancient Sith artifact rather than a modern one Ochi apparently inscribed himself for some reason, but I think the main benefit to this whole idea is that it could contribute to Rey’s dark side temptations if we know that she is actively tapping into it in order to be led to the Wayfinder. Then again, maybe that is already clear enough with how it is presented in the film, and trying to spell it it out for the audience might be overkill.
If we decide not to go through with these changes and leave it as V1 basically has it, perhaps we could rejig axlanian’s recent suggestion of adding more Sith voices to the climax, but instead add Sith voices to the whispers Rey follows, but they could actual whisper little things that the audience can understand. Instead of the whispers only being vague jibberish, we could hear some whispers say, “Closer” “This way”, etc… Not only that, but we could throw in some whispers that contribute to that temptation idea. It could all be subtle stuff, but enough to understand that they’re not only leading her to the Wayfinder, but they’re also trying to tell her how she needs power of the dark side.
With all that being said, maybe it is not worth the amount of work that is required for this change. We might be able to iron out some dumb plot choices, but maybe that effort could be put toward more substantial changes. For example, I would like to see 3PO not get his memory back, so at least some sacrifices in this film have consequences. Then again, maybe it’s time to start closing the door on new ideas.
Anyway, just wanted to start the conversation and gauge people’s thoughts.
@MoviesRemastered thanks for the wood sound effects! I definitely don’t have a clear vision in mind for the sound effects, so I guess I’ll just have to experiment with what you, Creation and others have given me and see what people like.
Regarding the Captain Hux line, the soundtrack already dips pretty suddenly on its own, but it is more noticeable here because I had to cut out “General” from every channel, and I pushed “Hux” back a little because I felt like the lines is more convincing when there is a pause. Because of that, the soundtracks stops sooner than it did before. I might try and play around with it some more. It’s funny how some dialogue is a breeze to remove, and then we run into this mess when we’re just trying to change one word! But we can PM about it until we have something else to show or are stuck.
@Dom, lol, I have surges of productivity and then I procrastinate for awhile. I’m actually probably gonna do the latter for a few days! “Somebody take this load off of me!”
@sherlock, it would probably be easy enough to flip the Mustafar shot so the TIEs are flying left to right!
And thanks again for more compliments and feedback everyone!
Regarding Mustafar, I honestly think the coolest part of the Biomes shot is the beginning, when the camera is flying above the lava river, and the castle stands imposingly on the top of the cliff in the distance.
Puppets: Is the “clunk” sound effect of the puppets going to be added back in? I liked it. Either way, this footage blows my mind every time I see it.
If the puppeteers should also make sound effects is definitely the next question for this thing. Perhaps the clunk could be left in when the AT-AT gets hit? Obviously it isn’t a metal puppet, but if we threw in some other sounds, it might make it more obvious that they’re being made for dramatic effect from beneath the stage or whatever.
Here are a few things.
Puppet Show (3rd Pass):
https://vimeo.com/555049417
Mustafar:
https://vimeo.com/555122074
Captain Hux:
https://vimeo.com/555127774
I slotted it in, realized it was gonna be a lot of work, and said to myself “eh someday I’ll get around to it.” The Kylo dialogue is surprisingly hard to get right, 70% of the work on my edit has been that and it still sounds bad, haha. Would love if someone else could do it honestly.
Yeah, and another problem with a lot of his dialogue is how it often echoes into the other channels, making it a pain in the ass to replace. I foresee that being a real challenge for how I want to tackle the Force bond duel for the Rey Nobody stuff.
But I do think I figured out how to get that reverb pretty close to the rest of the scene. Was there a certain take on “Captain” you felt fit best? And if it doesn’t fit with “Hux”, we could potentially just have him say “Captain”.
I liked the child sounds, but I do think it works well without it, especially now that we get to linger on the controls of the Falcon. I think that alone gives the audience enough to chew on.
In the interest of shuffling this thing a little closer to completion, let me regather some thoughts and ideas that are unresolved.
- Has the “you probably don’t recognize me because of the red eyes” 3PO scene redub been pursued past hashing out potential lines? That little cluster of related changes seems to hinge on whether that 30 seconds gets nailed or not. (Fortunately, those small handful of changes stand or fall together and the rest of the R&D has basically been done by this point so we have both options.)
I should go back through and see what the consensus was back when we were talking about this. It seemed like the introduction with Jannah had been figured out, which had us stuck for a bit. I’ll go back and see what was said regarding the 3PO dub.
- Is ‘Captain’ Hux being worked on? Is it just the one line from Kylo that would need to be changed?
I think Dom might have been messing with this, but this is something I could work on as well.
- Anyone up for carving out a replacement for the Vader Castle shot on Mustafar using the ‘Biomes’ short? While the existing one is still very good in my book, I think about anything anyone can do with that material will be at least as good. Could be as simple as cloning one of the TIE fighters to make it three and use that portion of the shot.
Did anyone on here provide a link to that shot?
Lol, the wonderful silence in Nev’s version almost made me forget that powerful line.
I believe so. It is originally used in Ben and Han’s confrontation in TFA, which is why I used it here as sort of a leitmotif.
Semi-relatedly, I realized after creating the effect of Kylo watching the shield going down that it could serve as a bit of a metaphor for his emotional state at this point. It’s a bit of a reach, but it works for me 😉
Lol, #starlightdetails
The use of some of the footage from Vehicle Flythroughs was a brilliant idea too. It’s basically the perfect place to put it, and helps give the scene even more weight.
Just wanted to chime in and say I appreciate all the work you have undoubtedly put into this!
It reminds me of people defending their student films. Obviously student films are rarely ever perfect, as that is the time when young filmmakers are learning the craft.
But, some student filmmakers struggle to take criticism. People will offer some feedback, but then they’ll say that those mistakes actually aren’t mistakes, and the wooden acting or sloppy writing is intentional. Or maybe viewers struggle to understand the story, and they get frustrated that people don’t understand the plot even though all of the pieces are there. So, is it a failure on the audience for failing to understand the plot, or the failure of the filmmaker to make their plot more coherent?
Obviously we’re talking about a blockbuster and not a student film, but the same thing can apply to any film. George or a fan could say Hayden’s acting is wooden because he’s a Jedi who lacks lacks any social intelligence. Maybe one could use that as an excuse in retrospect, but was that the intention when George directed that scene? And even if it was, is it even the right decision if audiences aren’t feeling the emotions or understanding the characters in the way you wanted them to?
Tiny nitpick, but do we need the alien to say “Skywalker” three times, or even twice? The second time it says Skywalker, it sounded to me a bit like it’s just reusing the same audio as the first time he says it, maybe it’s just because he pauses after the word both times. Maybe I’m being silly, but I’m just thinking of what the alien actor’s “translated script” could have been and wondering how the same word is used so often in just one or two sentences. Maybe replace one with “Jedi?”
On that note, I also wonder if the voice actor (I forget who exactly, my apologies) couldn’t ham it up just a little bit with their cadence and tone to better match what’s happening on screen in the final cut. Maybe a quick dramatic pause before Luke deflects the blast, then a little flair and excitement in their voice when it happens. Like, in a way the kids could be laughing at how he’s telling the story, and not just at the visual of the puppets.
Thanks for the feedback, Neerb! The “Skywalker” line readings are all definitely unique, not duplicated. I could swap out one of them with a more distinct reading, Creation gave me plenty of inflections to choose from!
I threw in a third “Skywalker” with the intention of making who/what this puppet show is about as clear as possible for your hypothetical first-time viewer. For example, Nev mentioned that his girlfriend didn’t catch what was happening until one or two more rewatches, but that was also with the one-shot version of the scene, rather than the two-shot version. I definitely think we should hear him say Skywalker at least twice, but maybe three is pushing it a little. Having him say “Jedi” would definitely serve the same purpose I was after, so that’s a great idea Neerb!
Creation originally recorded his really awesome alien gibberish before I had anything recorded for the puppet show, so he was just going off how the idea had been described. We were already planning to do this, but now that we have the visuals and the pacing of the scene down, I think Faraday might write new dialogue in a different language that Creation can record. Now that he can see what he is talking about, it could help him add a little more flair to the performance like you described.
I mean the Wayfinder contains the course markers to get to Exegol safely, right? I’m assuming Kylo still needs it to reach him in one piece, but I guess Palpatine could’ve just talked him through it telepathically instead.
“Okay, just take a sharp left at this next black hole, then you’ll go straight for another 12 parsecs…”
This is nice, ghost!
I really like the idea of Kylo connecting to Vader’s helmet and it “showing” him how to find the Wayfinder/Exegol is a good idea. It’s something I’ve thought about before. Because it does seem like Palpatine has been influencing Ben through Vader’s helmet for years, and it makes more sense for Kylo to connect with the helmet before he knows about Palpatine, rather than after. You would think he would be reluctant to even connect with it after realizing Palpatine has been using it to manipulate him.
But I guess in the theatrical film, he is just using the helmet’s dark side aura to help him reconnect his mind with Rey’s?
Ooo, I’m excited to hear that! After I finish the puppets, I want to try to finally tackle the Rey Nobody stuff too. I’m interested what new things you’ve come up with!
Everyone’s right, it’s really not a discussion over what technically does or doesn’t qualify as a “plot hole”, more-so plain lazy writing. It’s flimsy and unsatisfying, just because it’s not fundamentally broken at the level of its premise does not mean it wasn’t a rushed fumble. Throwing around the concept of inference doesn’t change anything, when people criticize Anakin’s line “I don’t like sand” they aren’t complaining that it doesn’t connect, it does, it’s still poorly written and executed.
Except inferences are there to clog up plot holes so the story would make sense. Why do you think J.J. had Kylo Ren be injured in TFA?
And “I don’t like sand” DOES make sense. He’s using it as a comparison to describe how nice and beautiful Naboo and Padmé are.
Secondly, Anakin grew up with an organization that kept telling him to repress his feelings and attachments, so of course “I don’t like sand” was gonna sound so awkward and lifeless. It reinforces how awful the old Jedi Order is.
You didn’t read what I said at all. My point was that technical connections don’t absolve poor execution. You can cook a chicken without burning it and still make a bland meal.
How are they poorly-executed, exactly? “I don’t like sand” was executed well, it reinforced how bad the old Jedi are and was a natural progression of Anakin growing up with it holding him back emotionally.
You’re looking at that line from a logical, script perspective. Not from an acting, directing, or chemistry perspective. And I think that’s why you will continue to not understand any of our perspectives because you fail to at least acknowledge some of these decisions were executed poorly, whether or not the idea is good on paper. You are still more than welcome to like them, though. Just because it works for you doesn’t mean it should work for everyone else.