RogueLeader

So how would you handle Rose being unconscious for the rest of the film? You could cut all of those scenes, but I think it would also be worth attempting to have her also get shot by a TIE or an AT-AT before Finn makes his run. Then after he gets shot down, he could go find her (unconscious) and bring her back to the base. That way you could keep more material.

I would also be interested in seeing edits that keep Rose rescuing him, but maybe setting it up more and shortening his approach. Because I think it does have value as a character moment, it’s just executed strangely, imo.

Anakin Starkiller said:

That’s actually a brilliant way to subtly clarify that. Then again, I suppose some people might think they simply started growing clones from other templates.

I figured the Remnant would be reduced to the point of having no choice but to join the Republic or go into exile. The latter group became the First Order while the former became their backers. I guess your idea could work too, but how and why?

Yeah, there definitely would be people who just assume that they had just gotten new clone templates, but I think the percent of people who would think that would significantly drop with this kind of change. You could also try to have more variety regarding pitch, age, accent. But I feel like Stormies with an American accent is so standard that hearing British or other accents might seem off. I also would want to avoid replacing the more iconic Stormtrooper lines throughout the movies as well.

While I enjoy thinking of more radical changes, I personally think the best kind of changes are ones that are small and subtle, but can have the most impact.

And what you described about the Imperial Remnant is pretty much what happened, I think! In the decades after the Battle of Endor, a lot of the senators idealized the Empire and their more centralized form of government because the Empire could get stuff done. And, like I said earlier, some senators were aware of the First Order and even undermined the Senate to help weaken the New Republic’s position. But it was a spectrum, not all senators who romanticized the Empire were secret First Order supporters. Many believed in the New Republic, but just wanted to adapt what worked with the Empire rather than just repeat what the Old Republic did wrong. But I imagine those that were FO supporters/spies had ties to the Old Empire from before it collapsed. You really should read Bloodlines if you haven’t!

And I don’t think my idea regarding the remnant would work, it is just more of a fun idea. But I think your idea is pretty similar to what the canon has been implying, so finding ways to make that more apparent within the films themselves would be interesting.

I definitely agree with you Ridley. While it’d be cool to see someone attempt that in edit, like Snooker’s. He’s doing an awesome job and it works for his project, but I think a change like that isn’t for this project. I think you’ve given another good rule of thumb for the project.

And thanks for helping us stay focused Abram! Like I said earlier, I like discussing ideas for subjective changes, but I think we should stick close to the rules set up by EddieDean. And I think Ridley makes a good point about not changing/removing very iconic aspects of the movies.

Also, thanks for offering to do VO work! That may just come in handy later.

I posted a working continuity issue list on the first post, so maybe we could start working our way down the list and discuss what deserves edits, what doesn’t, and what kind of edits are possible to fix those issues?

I would sit down and watch the whole sequence two or three times, and take notes either in a word doc or on a piece paper. Write out what problems this sequence has exactly. That gives you the questions, “how can I tone down this or that element of the story?”. Find what moments add to those elements and cut them out. While I do think you could possibly cut the whole Canto Bight sequence time to half, I just think it would be hard for it not to feel like something has obviously been cut if you remove entire portions of the sequence. The more I’ve thought about it, the more I think you would have to bend over backwards just to make it work without the Fathier chase.

I thought natedug’s take on the Fathier chase was interesting, where he cut from the boy realizing what they want to do, to the cup of tea rattling on the table in the street. It would remove a huge chunk of the chase but still keep important elements of the story, (the slave children, how they ended up on a different ship, etc.). There might be an alternative way to trim throughout from beginning to end of the chase though as well. Like just show a portion of them running on the racetrack, then cut to the shot of them breaking through the window, etc. etc.)

There have been a lot of interesting ideas but I think you could provide an interesting take on the sequence.

Saying that, maybe you should try to cut the Fathier chase and see if you’re happy with it. Maybe you can make it work! But for me, sometimes you just have to try something and see if it works for you or not. And if doesn’t, at least you’ll know.

I’ve added it to the first post, but I can put it in this post instead if you think I should.

DominicCobb said:

Sure thing. I hope there were reasons you didn’t make it all the way through that don’t have anything to do with the quality of the edit!

Haha, not at all! Just life got in the way.

Yes I did, mostly going off L8wrtr’s reordering though with some additional heavy borrowing from Hal. The main idea being to put emphasis on Anakin’s relationship with Palpatine. With the big change of putting the Plagueis convo upfront, we’re getting Palpatine is the first and best solution to Anakin’s problem that he’s hearing. After that, hearing the Jedi method from Yoda (basically do nothing and get over it), doesn’t sit well with him. Everything that happens after on goes further to put Anakin on Palpatine’s side and against the Jedi.

I could go more in depth but I’m weary of boring people.

Ah I see. It’s like by sewing the seeds early on, Anakin then looks at everything else with doubt. It’s been so long since I watched L8wrtr’s version, I need to watch your new version, Hal’s most recent one and L8’s just to compare them now.

Hey everyone, I appreciate the discussion everyone’s been having here.

To reiterate, I think this project, at the very least, can be a collaborative effort to tackle various issues regarding consistency and continuity between the films. It could become more than that but that’s what I think should be focused on for now.

I really like your points Imhotep! I hadn’t really thought about if/how to tackle the incest vibes in the OT. Other thoughts on this would be appreciated.

About the two Death Stars: In the past I had considered having just one Death Star in the OT, and imply that they just heavily damaged it in ANH, only for them to destroy it for good in ROTJ. But I think it would be a little too radical. Maybe if you could set up the second Death Star in Empire Strikes Back somehow? Maybe see a less formed DSII from the Executor bridge in Vader’s first ESB scene? It definitely is a criticism though.

Regarding Mace’s lightsaber, it’s a reasonable question. You definitely haven’t been the only one who has wanted to do that, like you said, jack had done it for AOTC, and I know Adywan was planning on changing it to either blue or green for his now-cancelled Revisited Prequels.

It would’ve been cool to see Anakin with a red saber, I remember a lot of the ROTS marketing had him with a red one. Sparked my young imagination. I would be weary of having lightsaber change colors though, because if you do it in one situation it raises questions of why doesn’t this character’s lightsaber change color in this situation either. Though it would be cool to see though!

Another thought I had regarding saber colors, instead of changing Mace’s saber color, why not throw in one or two more purple sabers during the arena battle to show, while it is rare, it isn’t completely unique. Especially considering there are 10,000 Jedi and it would be really surprising if he were the only one with a purple lightsaber. I don’t think fans would have been as bothered by his saber if he wasn’t the only Jedi with a purple saber. And even if 1% of Jedi had purple lightsabers, that would still be 100 Jedi.

You could even throw in one or two yellow lightsabers as well (they’re in The Clone Wars so they’re even technically canon). I would even like to see blue and green sabers with slightly different hues, but I think that would be too much work for not much of a difference. And if one Jedi had a yellow lightsaber when they go to arrest the Chancellor, each Jedi would have a lightsaber of each Jedi color. Seems symbolic, like they represent the whole of the Jedi Order and their downfall or something. But you also have to ask if these kind of changes really “improve” the story or they’re just for fun. But at least adding one more purple lightsaber to the arena would be the least amount of work for the most influence on the story/world building in my opinion, without having to change what already exists.

Regarding “Obi-Wan once thought as you do”, I would either want it to be changed to “your mother” (using his bible audiobooks is a good idea), or just cut the line entirely. The scene still works without the line. But with Padmé dying tragically, I think it would be a nice callback to her character, and help connect Luke’s motivation to her’s, which would help connect the trilogies. It’s been a commonly mentioned thing so it would be cool for someone to attempt it! Voice manipulation isn’t a bad idea either Zerome!

About the Clone army thing. It seemed like a lot of people were confused by Stormtroopers not being clones in the sequel trilogy, even though Stormtroopers in the OT weren’t clones either. BUT, I honestly don’t blame anyone who thought this was the case. If you just watch the movies, it is easy to assume that the clones in the prequels just evolve into the Stormtroopers of the originals, and you just attribute the different accent/heights/etc. to when they were filmed (I think George even felt the Stormtroopers were clones, since he threw in Jango bumping his head on the Slave 1 door as an Easter egg).

The only way you really know they aren’t for sure is by reading or watching material outside of the movies, which I kind of feel shouldn’t be necessary. I think clones being only used in the prequels is still valuable to those movies, because they were the secret weapon that helped eradicate the Jedi Order, leaving Vader to finish off the remaining few. To make it clearer that OT Stormtroopers aren’t clones, would it be blasphemous to add a one or two female Stormtrooper lines into the OT? I think that would be the simplest way to make it pretty clear that they aren’t clones.

Anakin Starkiller said:

My preference is making the conflict of the ST a proxy war with two groups within the Senate funding the Resistance and the First Order.

This is an interesting idea! I also had been thinking about the possibility of the Empire (or Imperial Remnant) and the First Order being two separate things. Maybe the Remnant is minding its own business when the First Order strikes, and they invade both the New Republic and offer the Remnant a chance to surrender.

“In his absence, the FIRST ORDER has splintered from the remnants of the Empire…”

And I actually think your idea isn’t too far off to the truth! I know in Bloodlines, it pretty much says that there are some New Republic senators that are secretly supporting the First Order, helping them get funds and making the rest of the senate think they’re not really a threat. It would be nice if that idea could be made clearer in the films. The only thing I could think of is through the TFA opening crawl. Maybe the second paragraph could say something like-

“Fearing that First Order spies have infiltrated the New Republic, General Leia Organa forms a covert Resistance…”

Certain words could be swapped:
spies/sympathizers
infiltrated/influenced

This would give a little more context as why it had to be the Resistance fighting the First Order rather than just the New Republic, and it would make the New Republic seem less incompetent or ignorant, but rather, compromised. I like this idea the more I think about it!

These are just some ideas though! I enjoy talking about this with you guys, thanks for the discussion!

So, I have formed a list of commonly brought up continuity errors, inconsisties, plot holes or big questions brought up in the movies. A lot of them I don’t think need edits, but I think they all could/should be vetted. Thanks to those who have brought other questions to my attention as well, most of those have been added.

Now, before I post this list, I’m not sure if I should just post the questions themselves, include my thoughts on some of them (or do that in a separate post), or if I should just put the list in my original post.

Basically I was thinking we could go through the questions, and come up with acceptable answers or edit ideas for each item on the list. EddieDean can then organize them on his list. After some discussion, we could then possibly prioritize what ideas would be worth pursuing first.
I could just post the list, start discussion, and decide what to do next as we go on. Would appreciate any additional thoughts.

I got halfway through your first cut, but I would like to see your second one too Dom.

I did have a question about the first cut as well. If I’m not mistaken, I noticed that you had reordered a number of scenes between the Chancellor rescue and Anakin’s turn. I was wondering if you would care to elaborate on your motivation to move around some scenes (either in this thread or in a private message).

Cool, making progress! I think the glow is a little intense on the larger ships though.

Also, could you possibly use a different Falcon model? It might just be me, but it looks a little brown compared to the other ships.

Wow Snook, really good job!

EDIT: Also great job on the crate poppasketti! At least on my phone it looks pretty seamless.

I hope you don’t mind, Hal, but I had a go at the Snoke edit with two swapped shots. I don’t think it bothered anyone else but I felt it might be noticeable if we see the saber go from moving to unmoving in consecutive shots, especially since we see it unmoving before Snoke even finishes saying, “I see him turning the lightsaber to strike true…” I also kind of think it gives the impression that Rey gulps or flinches as Snoke says “He ignites it…”

https://vimeo.com/263609562
password: fanedit

No, you’re good! I really appreciate your input.

I would be interested in hearing more about what you were mulling over regarding continuity in the OT trilogy.

That’s the same example I had been thinking of when it comes to the bigger, more subjective changes we could make.

At the very least, we could make a “canvas” edit with the smaller, more concrete changes that people could use for their own edits. And then if the people involved wanted to, we could make a separate, larger scale edit implementing additional changes that might be more subjective.

And that’s interesting that you had the same thought on that particular edit! I think that type of change should be worth consideration.

Thanks for chiming in Dom! You were definitely a person I was hoping to get input from.

I’ve been thinking about this a lot, and I sort mentioned in my last post, that fan editing is so subjective, so coming to a consensus on every little detail will be really challenging. But, I see this project having one major goal, to make edits for certain continuity issues between the movies. So at the very least, this project could create a database of continuity edits that the community can use for their own projects, kind of like you described.

In that case, we may want to avoid things like color grading in order for these edits to be implemented more easily into other people’s edits.

Thanks for your thoughts, Dom. I think we could still stay on track on making a list of continuity errors and other issues. Because I think that is our strongest focus of this project. And if these edits interest people for their own projects, they can use our various fixes as we produce them.

And if multiple people get behind other ideas they would like to see executed, people can collaborate on here to try to make those edits work.

And cool, thanks Zerome!

EddieDean said:

• I think we should keep our hands off the Sequels, at least until they’re done.

I agree, and by the time IX is released, they’ll be a lot of edit ideas to pull from once we get to them. I also agree that edits like changing the Jedi robes would be extremely difficult (as cool as it would be) so it maybe keeping elements that lean into that monk concept would be a good idea since it’s how we explain that issue. I do think Outbound’s points should be on a continuity or discussion list though.

You’re all right that this thread could quickly get out of hand. I think we should focus on top level goals before we get into minutiae or even specifics. (BTW, in real life I’m a ‘Solution Designer’, my job is to run projects from beginning to end for customers, where we always outline goals first, long before getting into requirements, then design the solution based on the limitations of the product. And prior to that I was a data analyst, so I have infinite tolerance for spreadsheets and reams of data.)

That is really convenient! Hopefully this kind of thing is a more entertaining project to use your work skills on.

1. Individual movies should be as enjoyable as possible
2. Individual movies should be as internally consistent and clearly plotted as possible
3. The saga as a whole should be as internally consistent and clearly plotted as possible
4. The saga as a whole should respect the canon of the TV series as far as reasonable
5. The saga as a whole should be as enjoyable as possible

I think this is a really solid goal list. Thanks for taking the time to write all of this out. I feel like “enjoyable” is pretty subjective, but I guess that would come from general consensus on whether people like them or not? I feel like art and film critique rides a thin line between subjective/objective criticism, so it’s the best we can do.

I don’t really have any criticisms of your outline at the moment. I think it is really solid and a good place to work off of.

This item also leaves room for the removal of non-fun elements, like the Droid Factory, and the changes we’ve seen in traditional edits.

I’m the sure this will be a fun future debate, but I know that during Hal’s editing of AOTC, people discussed the Droid Factory scene a bit, and we should eventually discuss the merits of keeping a trimmed/altered version of that scene for pacing/narrative reasons.

One thing I don’t think we need to overthink is whether or not to include anthology movies. Mainly because Rogue One really doesn’t break anything, nor is Solo likely to, now that the Story Group has a good handle on things. I doubt this project will make any demands of either. As I suggested earlier, once we have our goals we should be able to rank existing edits or original versions against them, and we may likely find that we’re closer than we think. In the ideal world we don’t create new edits from scratch, we just tweak our best existing sources to make them CONPoV compliant.

True, though the anthology films are currently in a grey area that might cause some issues later. Like with Rogue One, we see the the Death Star get it’s laser dish in the film, but it already seems to have it at the end of ROTS. You could argue it is a placeholder or etc., but I also think this project is trying to avoid this kind of hand waving when possible. It’s not really a big deal but it’s something worth discussing I think!

I imagine, at least for the prequels, it end up being a fusion of two or three major edits plus some additions of our own. I do think starting the process by looking at the theatrical versions first might be useful, and then comparing them to relevant edits and how they handled their issues.

Again, thanks for breaking this down. This is great.

CourtlyHades296 said:

Needless to say, Han is going to shoot first in these editions.

Definitely so, if no one is against it.

LordZerome1080 said:

Let’s use the DEED as a base for the OUT and for the prequels use the new canon cuts.

It’ll either be DEED or Revisited, since Revisited fixes so many internal continuity issues already. And I really like NFB’s new canon cuts too. I loved reading his thoughts/motivations on his character changes for Anakin, and he has executed a lot them really well I think! I think his should be one of the major edits we look at.

jarbear said:

For the Obi Wan and R2 part, that would work pretty good since it keeps the connection between the two of them. After that, he keeps up his facade with Luke (after he is revived) with his semi truths & stories. That is later reinforced at Obi Wan’s house with his reaction with Luke’s questioning about his father.

I was worried that it might be too much, since within the film we get no explanation of how R2 is an “old friend”, so it does bring up a question within that film. But, ANH does establish Obi and Bail knew each other so I don’t think it would be a stretch to think he might’ve known R2 as well.
Then again, should the audience at that point not immediately know that is Obi-Wan? Are we suppose to be obvlivious like Luke? Might be worth further discussion.

OutboundFlight said:

I think we should limit our canon to just the 9 films. A trilogy of trilogies. Thankfully Rogue One and Solo are standalone, so we can avoid them entirely without many contradictions. TCW and Rebels, while good parts of the story, are not the main focus and shouldn’t be catered too. We should make the prequel films are good as possible.

I think we are all pretty close to the same page, just leaning in various directions on certain things, which I think is a good thing for this kind of discussion. Some might feel we should cater to the TV material on a certain matter, whereas others feel a bigger change could benefit the story, or vice versa. EddieDean made this guideline earlier: The TV series are not [unbreakable canon], though we should try to avoid any major contradictions unless otherwise unavoidable.

Obviously the degree of “trying” and what is and isn’t “unavoidable” is the grey area. But these are just situations where we weigh the pros and cons and discuss it. I still think good ideas, even if they might contradict the TV shows, should still be up for discussion.

That being said, I fear this thread will quickly become a mess. I could go on and on with possible changes from all over the saga. I suggest we start with fixing bigger story contradictions, like Leia remembering her mother. After that we narrow down, focus on the prequel’s overall story and the clone wars origin. Then narrow down further, focus on the individual changes for the TPM, and so on. Then the originals, then the sequels (by then ep 9 will have come out).

I agree with you there. I don’t want this to become a mess. While I love discussing the more subjective changes, I think concentrating on continuity issues would be the most focused strategy for now. We were debating on creating separate threads for the individual films earlier, but I wonder if maybe dividing threads into the three categories (progress reports and general discussion, continuity discussion, story improvement discussion) or something similar would help prevent conversations from getting tangled. Or just have two, one for work (this one) and another for general idea discussion.

I think it’d also be helpful if the OP updated the first post to include a list of all the agreed changes (and editing progress for them) so everyone can know what’s happening easily.

I’ll totally do this. I’ll probably post a simplified version of the spreadsheet/list that EddieDean is working on.

Here are all the major contradictions through the saga I can think of. I think we should focus on inter-trilogy changes first:
–Leia remembers her mother
–Obi-Wan never remembers R2 (fix: “old friend”)
–Your father wanted you to have this (fix: “would’ve wanted”)
–Death Star I takes 19 years, II 3 (fix: cut the cameo in ROTS or use Snooker’s sovereign with his permission)

Hal also had an idea of putting the laser dish on the equator to imply that it is a prototype Death Star rather than the final one we see in ANH.

–Who made the Death Star again? (fix: cut the cameo in AOTC)
–The Jedi wear hermit robes (we probably can change this but worth mentioning)
–Anakin is no “good friend” (fix: edit AOTC throughout and remove temper tantrums)
–The First Order somehow rose from nowhere (fix: end ROTJ without galactic montage, it’s only a major victory not end of the war)

I haven’t mentioned this on the Revisited thread, but I think it would be interesting to have a shot of Star Destroyers jumping into hyperspace in various directions after the Death Star is destroyed to hint that the Empire might not be gone forever. Maybe I should post this thought, but I agree with you and I also think the Ady will make a similar version of this concept.

–Luke doesn’t kill Vader but almost murders Ben (how about instead of him attacking that causes the rise of darkness, it’s his refusal to fight the rising darkness which is more true to his character)
–Snoke (fix: Darth Plaguies)
–The rebels didn’t accomplish anything (fix: merge the resistance and new republic… leia is commanding a regiment in the outer rim)

Although I personally lean on the side of lighter Sequel edits, I do think these things merit more discussion. And at the very least, discuss how such changes could be hypothetically implemented. While I don’t know about changing Luke’s moment of weakness, I’ve thought about ways to change it, and ways to foreshadow Snoke (maybeplagueismaybenot) possibly.

I definitely agree that I would like more political recontextualization in the sequel films though. I think Restructured helped pave the way for that. I have a few ideas that I would like to discuss with you as well!

I’m going to put all of these on a list, thanks OutboundFlight.

CourtlyHades, I definitely agree that ESB could probably go pretty much untouched. Personally, I think I’ll eventually have a box set of all the films, and in them I’ll have the theatrical version and an edited version of each film (so probably the Despecialized for the OT). So for me, I think ESB should still be different from Despecialized. That’s why for this I think it would be nice to use Adywan’s Revisited as a basis, and maybe make two or three additional changes that I think 95% of people might not even notice.

LordZerome1080 said:

I can do voice acting if you would like, I can do a pretty good Palpatine and I can accomplish a Snoke using audacity. As well as Yoda and a few other voices.

This could come in handy! Thanks for the offer Zerome.

Hal 9000 said:

Snoke’s demise:

https://vimeo.com/263448791
password: fanedit

“Oh, it’s beautiful.”

I know some people said they still missed it even with the shots of the lightsaber turning, but I think this is perfect. We know something is up with his hand, and we saw Snoke lay the lightsaber down earlier…
I just think it is a good example of rewarding the audience for paying attention, it could be a pretty satisfying moment for a person watching this edit for the first time.

EDIT: One little note. There is a moment where we see Kylo turning his saber, but then in the very next shot, a close up of Rey, it is static. Sort of a jump cut. Not a big deal, but I wonder if you could swap that shot of her with the next shot, a close up of Kylo. So when Snoke says, “He ignites it” we see Rey instead of Kylo. Maybe it is just me though.

I’ll see if I can find it. Either way I’ll lay out the idea out later.

Very good point. We should definitely keep this in mind once a changelist starts forming, because this could be used on the Kamino Prime Minister.

Another idea I had that could use this technique would be when Obi-Wan first sees R2 in ANH. Instead of saying, “Come here my little friend” he could say “Come here my old friend.” He uses the word ‘old’ at least twice in the Hut conversation I know.
Not saying I want to do that, but it could be an option.

And thanks Hal! I’ll probably message you regarding technical questions, divisive issues or certain ideas I might have later. I’d appreciate your insight!
And keep those TLJ edits coming because they are looking good!

jarbear said:

If you can remove Sifo and the story from Obi wan in that scene in a believable smooth way, it would fix that.

I’ve actually attempted that particular edit before, when I first started getting into fan edits. While it wasn’t 100% seamless, it was closer than I thought I could get it. I think with some back and forth it could be doable. I’ll try to see if I still have that version, if not I could try to break it down later.

And all of that looks great Eddie! Thanks for doing that. I know these things have been discussed as nauseum on this site, but it’ll be cool to have a list like this. Could be useful to other editors on here as well! And I like jarbear’s addition to that, to have the optional changes listed. Should people just start brainstorming continuity issues to put on the list?

And yeah, jarbear, I’d also rather change the PT to accomodate the OT, but for a few of the continuity issues, all it would require to fix them would be to remove or alter a handful of lines (or literally change one word), and your average Star Wars fan might not even notice.

This is very well thought out, EddieDean. Thanks for taking the time to write your ideas out.

I think you make very good points. It feels very focused, and we have this obstruction (generally adhering to the canon) that can challenge us in creative but fun ways.

While there are radical ideas I’ve thought about and like, the stuff beyond the movies is becoming a significant part of people’s Star Wars experience. My family has watched The Clone Wars and Rebels, and I like the idea that I could show them these edits without them immediately contradicting the other material that they (and myself) like. It also helps make the edits “futureproof” like you said.

And if, for example, Sith Lords show up in an inevitable old republic series, they’ll more than likely refer to them as Darth, which would instantly make this edit incompatible, and ironically, inconsistent with non-saga material.

I also think this kind of limitation gives us a practical workload and tangible goals.

I personally agree with a “movies and TV” guideline. The Clone Wars and other shows are becoming big parts of people’s Star Wars experience, so I see the merit in trying to stick to them as much as possible. I would argue for this not to be an unshakable rule if there are ideas that benefit the films, and aren’t blatant contradictions. Books and comics shouldn’t be necessary to adhere to. I think the Phasma example is a good point, one that I think should be discussed at some point. Not necessarily a continuity issue but something that fans were generally disappointed with.

I also agree with Adywan’s Revisited trilogy being a prime source for the OT, as long as he’s okay with that. Not only are they the definitive Special Editions imo, he tackles continuity errors that I didn’t even realize were continuity errors, so I believe a lot of his changes fit into the goals of the project.

Also, for example, Y-Wings could be added to ROTS to help tie the trilogies together, as long as they are the sleeker, Clone Wars style design. I also would argue that some prequel elements could be given the low-tech treatment if they don’t blatantly contradict certain things seen in the TV shows. Because one could argue that the technology itself seems to be a contradiction between the films. I think some things would be worth discussing at least.

I think the initial focus should be on continuity issues and errors, but I still think it would be nice for the films to make narrative edits as well, even if they weren’t radical changes per se. This idea actually makes me think a lot of NFB’s prequel edits, where he was inspired to improve the movies by making the prequel characterization more in line with their Clone Wars counterparts, characterization that some prefer over how they’re portrayed in the prequels. I think this might be a good approach, and still allows a lot of room for creative freedom. I don’t think we should be bound to keep the movies exactly the same sans continuity errors.

I like “From a Consistent Point of View”! If not the name of the project, it definitely would make a good slogan. I think CONpov is a good abbreviation for continuity-focused changes as well.

I appreciate your thoughts too jarbear, and I agree with a lot of your thoughts as well. I think quality should be a good standard for this. So a change shouldn’t be implemented if it can’t be pulled off believably. And, the quality of the narrative should be a standard as well.

So Consistency and Quality should be standards. I do think the new canon should be a guideline, but a rule that can be bent, depending on how the change is handled.

I’ll try to make a example that covers one of Nev’s thoughts.
I always felt the Sifo-Diyas thing in AOTC was really unnecessary because it is information that never get brought back up in the films. It’s a clue that leads to nowhere. One potential edit could be to remove Sifo-Diyas being mentioned in the film. The Kaminoans could tell Obi that the “Jedi” ordered a clone army for the Republic, but don’t go into detail. Jango still tells Obi-Wan that he was hired by a man called Tyrannus, though. There is a clue. While Obi-Wan never realizes who Tyrannus is in the movie, we as the audience find out by the end of the film.

In The Clone Wars show, the Sifo-Diyas subplot is touched upon in the final season of the series and is given some long-awaited clarity. Would removing any mention of him from the film contradict the tv series though? Sifo-Diyas still could have been the specific Jedi that ordered the army, but his identity is really unnecessary information for the film, and could potentially improve the narrative of the movie as well. So someone could watch the movie and just assume Dooku did it, but it works either way.

I would like this kind of change because it doesn’t necessarily contradict anything, but it also helps simplify the plot of the prequels. So sometimes the simplest answer could be the best way to address these kind of issues. Thanks for bringing up this kind of stuff, Nev. I’d like to talk more about these issues.

Eddie, I’d love for you to make this spreadsheet you’re referring to! This would be a good start. I don’t know if this would be included in your spreadsheet idea, but making a list of continuity errors and contradictions would be a good idea as well, and see how many of those issues we’ll need to eventually address.

Interesting ideas!

For a lot of these discussions, I’ll probably be leaning more towards the less radical changes to the movies, for a few reasons. I love scouring the Prequel Radical Redux thread, but it seems like we rarely see the radical ideas come to fruition, usually because of how difficult it would be for a lot of those ideas to be implemented. And even if they could be, it would be hard for them to be seamless.

Also, a lot of the more major changes could significantly cut down runtime, and I think keeping the movies as close to the 2-hour mark as possible is important.

Then again, we definitely should still consider and discuss the more radical changes because I do think, for example, there is merit in changing the Nemoidian/Jar Jar dialogue because of how they lean towards stereotype. But personally, I think that would create too many subtitles even for a Star Wars movie. Redubbing could be considered, like it has before in other threads, but I think pulling it off seamlessly would still be challenging. Like I said, for a lot of these discussions I will probably be leaning more into the ‘less is more’ side of things. I’m also worried if we there are too many radical changes, the project would never get done. Would love other people’s thoughts on this.

Despite that, I actually agree, or have considered in the past, many of your ideas Snooker. Just to name a few…

• Dooku isn’t a sith, rather a fallen Jedi. He has a Blue or Green sword.

• Anakin and Obi-Wan shouldn’t antagonize each other throughout EP II.

• The Trade Federation and the Separatists should be one in the same. Perhaps they are the 'Separatist Federation."

• Neimoidians speak in an alien dialect/don’t speak in a grossly offensive accent.

• Less advanced holograms/technology. I mean look at Luke’s room in EP II vs EP IV!

• Palpatine doesn’t turn into monster mash on screen.

But all of your ideas would be fun to discuss!

Comparing Luke’s room in AOTC and ANH is a good example! Though one could argue that a lot of the tech on the wall just stopped working after 20ish years. It would be worth considering to make the room look one way or another in both movies if people felt it was worth the trouble.

This kind of fx work could possibly be categorized as secondary effects work. Meaning, that while these kind of changes would benefit the saga’s continuity, it isn’t immediately necessary to improve the narrative. So vfx work that was necessary to make the Starkiller restructuring work would be considered primary effects work, since it was necessary for the narrative change. So other examples of secondary vfx work could include making the prequels more low-tech, possibly adding Clone Wars-style Y-Wings to ROTS, giving Anakin’s lightsaber a consistent sound and color throughout all of the films, etc. While not immediately necessary, they would be cool additions.

Also Nev, I definitely think deleted scenes should be used! I loved Hal’s use and placement of a lot of the AOTC deleted scenes, and it also helps compensate the runtime since a lot will inevitably be cut. I for one had an idea regarding the ROTS deleted scenes that I haven’t seen suggested before. Don’t know if it would work or not though.

And I think it would be okay to talk about certain edits until we get other threads started up. I don’t think I should make nine new threads just yet. Still a little too early. Another thought, what about three threads for each trilogy?

As of now, there are some points I think would be useful for the project’s guidelines:
Continuity. Does this change help tie the movies together? Not all changes have to, but it’s a plus.
Practicality. How realistic or doable is the change?
Motivation. How does the change benefit the narrative? (a flimsy rule atm)

But I think we should still have enough levity for some edits just because they’re “cool”.

Some other things I think could be important are (4)seamlessness and (5)runtime. Seamlessness: can the change be made and still feel professional? Now, there could be radical changes to the movies, but I don’t think the movies should be completely redone, if that makes sense. I think the basics of each movie should be kept, mainly because I like the idea of somebody watching these edits and maybe not initially realizing it is a fan edit, just a lot better than they remembered. I do think maintaining a decent runtime is crucial, and it shouldn’t go under a certain length, because it being too short would make it feel not like a realistic version of the movie, to me at least.

I’m not saying that radical changes, like redubbing Jar Jar, or changing the end of ROTS so the movies can be watched in chronological order without spoiling the big twist, shouldn’t be done. I think any suggestion on here should be considered, discussed, and put through the ringer. If we can come up with a decent set of guidelines and have consistent voices of reason, then we hopefully can come out the other end with a great list of edits, both subtle and radical. This isn’t set in stone though, and it may vary depending on individual ideas. But I think these types of discussions are what makes it fun, and I think they’re necessary.

So I think these bigger questions could begin being asked.
What should the guidelines be?
Radical versus Minimal Edits
What previous edits to draw from? I think we should eventually take deep dives into past edits, incomplete edits and new edits and see what works and what could be added. Some editors and their ideas that come to mind: The Phantom Editor, L8wrtr, Q2, Hal, Octorox, Aalenfae, NFBisms, Dom. There are all kinds of edits for the Sequels being worked on now, so we’ll watch their careers with great interest. Shout out to DigitalModification, though, who I think has made pretty consistent, professional edits to the new movies so far.

Anyway, my opinion is just one opinion, and this should be a collaborative project, so I would love to hear more thoughts on this.

Not bad, especially the first one. What about the fact that we see BB-8 gunning people down in the AT-ST in the background of the Finn vs Phasma long shot? I think it’d be nice for some of the BB antics to be removed, but I think that shot alone makes it hard to remove this one seamlessly.

Also appreciate the Rich Evans gif.

Hal, your most recent version of Poe/Hux conversation is my favorite so far! A good balance I think.

I like the Hammerhead test. I don’t be know if these would be helpful at all, but I wonder if it’d be helpful if the other ships were all moving at different speeds. They all seem to be moving at the same speed, at least. Like, the ones in the background could be moving a little slower.

Also, this might’ve been discussed before, but I wonder if there could be certain tricks to make them feel more like practical models. For example, I wonder if more contrast between shadows and light would change anything, or frame rate could play any role. Looks cool so far though!

Thanks for the interest everyone! Sorry in advance for the long post. I just wanted to go ahead and respond to everyone.

stickydixon said:

Very interesting idea. I’ve thought of this hypothetically before. This could be good, though potentially problematic when ideas clash, which I’d definitely see happening. But count me in nonetheless.

Yeah, this would be the biggest issue. I’m definitely expecting there to be heated debates, but I think if people keep in mind that debate is a part of the process and to not make arguments personal, I think it will be beneficial in the long run. I doubt there will be ideas that will require a vote, but it could always come down to something like that if it was necessary. This idea is still so nebulous that we may have to figure out how to handle decisive decisions as we go along. But that’s the fun part I think. If you have any ideas Dixon please share them!

Sir Ridley said:

Nice idea! I could probably help out with some effects later. As you know, I helped Hal with Restructured as well as the “Padmé survives” clip.

I appreciate that Ridley! I have to say the necklace addition really caught be by surprise. Great job on that! I’d love to hear your thoughts on any ideas you might have as well.

Hal 9000 said:

Needless to say, anyone may use anything of mine for whatever they want; I just ask that if you borrow extensively and directly that you acknowledge what you’re doing.

Absolutely!

I’d say if this were going to move forward, RogueLeader would need to guide the process and set the parameters; we would likely wander aimlessly if we wait for a totally organic consensus to emerge on any of the particulars; you can’t do everything and not all ideas are congruent with one another.

Yeah, I could kind of act as a moderator for the project. If we’re not careful things could messy real quick, with imcompatible edits and overambitious ideas. We would need to make some sort of rules or guidelines to stick it. While it will be more complex than rules for one major change, I think having something written and laid out will make a big difference.

If your intent is to edit all of the films for continuity, I’d actually suggest having Padme die in Ep3; it’s much easier to simply remove the dialogue from ROTJ. (For me, I’d rather alter the prequels than the OT.) I’m not sure that’s a goal that can be satisfactorily addressed, given how pervasive the serial nature of the series has been. Can Obi-Wan and the droids be separated throughout the prequels, for example?

I think going back through each of these issues and seeing what realistically can be done would create pretty fun discussions. I do agree with you about the Padmé thing. While I would like to use Revisited as a basis with Adywan’s permission considering how many visual continuity errors he has fixed so far, I picture changes to the original trilogy being minimal. Mostly I picture it would be small dialogue changes that your average Star Wars might not even notice.

For example, a big continuity issue to me is Obi-Wan’s story to Luke about his father in A New Hope. While he obviously wants to hide the truth from Luke, some things he says seem more like blatant lies for no reason. While I think you could argue that the stuff he says about Owen could be resentment Owen developed about Obi-Wan during his exile. But “Your father wanted you to have this when you were old enough” can really only be interpreted as a continuity error or a manipulative lie. With this idea in mind, maybe that line could be changed to “I wanted you to have this…” or “Your father would’ve wanted you to have this…”

Same for his line about Yoda being his master in ESB. It could just be changed to, “A Jedi Master who instructed me” rather than “THE Jedi Master who instructed me.” While, yes, we are changing the OT, I believe these changes are minimal.

This isn’t set in stone, but I think when minimal changes can be made, it might be the better option. I think the Obi-Wan and the droids issue could use more discussion!

Although, and I say this as a joke, it almost makes me nervous that you’ll come up with a bunch of cool ideas and effects that I’ll regret not being included in my own edits which I refuse to return to. 😉

Ha! I don’t think you have anything to worry about from this edit! And many future prequel edits will have you to thank for all of your changes and ideas. I think overtime all of our edits, including this one, will become outdated as ideas grow and technology improves for future editors. We are what they grow beyond.

Imhotep said:

Though I wonder how much work would actually be necessary, if this kind of project would provide much more than has already been done in other edits like Hal’s PT and TFA Restructured? It would be interesting to write up some possible changes, including new ideas and things that would be copied from existing edits and see how those two things compare.

As you say, things can’t really be finalised until ep9 is out, but that’s no reason not to get started if enough people are on board 😄

That’s what I’ve thought about too. There has already been a lot done to the prequels and the other films. I think we would should definitely look at what has been done before, but I also know I have a few ideas I haven’t seen before that I think could be considered, and I’m sure I’m not the only one who has other ideas. It’s an ever-evolving thing.

And I agree! I definitely think making a rule set or guidelines might be a pretty good start. Or just start throwing out ideas and having the rules evolve as we discuss, since we can’t real make any final decisions until IX is out.

snooker said:

This reminds me of the old ROTJ collaborative edit that was happening a few years ago.

I’d be happy to do some visual effects if they become necessary.

Same here! I definitely was thinking of darthender’s thread when I thought of this.

I appreciate that! I meant to tell you that your most recent posts have looked really great. I really liked the rebel fleet shot.

NeverarGreat said:

Having strict continuity between all films is a good place to start with this idea, but could the idea be extended to apply to character actions and plot issues?

For example, in AOTC there are some real issues with characters acting inconsistently like when Obi-wan jumps out an open window after urging restraint in the previous scene.

I have a few other ideas like this for Episode 2, and in a collaborative thread we could probably come up with many more. It would probably help to have separate threads for each movie.

I’ve thought a lot about this too!

Eventually I came to the thought that maybe Obi-Wan is a little more reckless than he likes to believe. He wants to be the perfect master for Anakin, but he was only 25 when he became Anakin’s Master, and he might be more brash like Qui-Gon than he thinks he is. So when he says, “I hate it when he does that”, I take it more as he hates when Anakin shows that he has inherited more of Obi-Wan’s more reckless traits than he would like, like jumping out of a window. I think making Obi-Wan choose to train Anakin rather than being forced to by Qui-Gon’s dying wishes could help with this as well.

That’s at least one interpretation, but regardless you do bring up good points about some of their antics in this scene being a little outlandish. But these kind of questions would be good for discussion! I would to talk about your other ideas too. And maybe separate threads for each movie would be a good idea. I guess I could put links to each thread in the first post of this one?

jarbear said:

I like your idea behind this Rogue! I do agree with others that there would still need to be direction to focus on the objections. Of course taking in as many ideas is good, just need the head editor to make the final choice that keeps the project going and on track. I have no edit skills but would be happy to bounce ideas off and look over things too. After the release of the final saga, a broad objective needs to be drawn up and then tackle down the details.

Thanks for the interest jarbear! I’m definitely going to moderate the project and mediate discussion as best as possible. I think the most important thing is to have ideas and perspectives to bounce around, so your input would definitely be appreciated.

And that’s what it really comes down to. I’m going to start thinking about what this broad objective could be. At the very least, we’ll try to tackle major continuity issues, but it could also be more specific things like Neverar suggested. Obviously improving plot and characterization like most edits do, but the ideas could range from changing prequel ship interfaces to be more OT low-tech, or trying to keep the runtime to as close to 2 hours as possible.

I kind of picture the guidelines being set up like Asimov’s 3 laws of robotics, where we adhere to one idea unless it interferes with another more primary rule. I don’t think they should be set in stone, though. So if we all really like an idea that doesn’t necessarily fit into the objective, we could still run with it if we are all generally on board.

Anyway, if you guys have any ideas regarding changes or guidelines I’d love to hear them. I’ll post some more thoughts on both later.

With 15 years of discussion and a thousand fan edit topic threads, it’s pretty amazing to see all of the fan edits that have been made here. It’s been interesting to see the additions, alterations and preservations made to these films, and how the fan editing process has changed and evolved not only on this site but overtime in general. Although I suspect the founders of Original Trilogy never imagined people would be sharing edits of Episodes 7, 8 and so on fifteen years after they established this website. Just like everyone thought it would all be over in 2005, it’s really unlikely that Episode 9 will be the final chapter of the Skywalker Saga. Despite that, the fan editing community has grown a lot since then, and I think that has presented a very interesting opportunity.

For awhile now I have been thinking about eventually doing fan edits for the whole saga once Episode IX has released. I’m sure I’m not the only one who has thought that either. When I think about this idea, though, my thoughts keep coming back to TFA Restructured. Even though Hal was the leader on that edit, it really was a big collaborative project and it was a really fun and exciting process to witness. Although I think it is sometimes simpler to do these on your own, and they’re usually for personal use anyway, the idea of a collaborative saga edit is really appealing to me.

In the past I’ve thought of this idea as a continuity cut. Basically this would mean, at its most minimal, to make changes to the nine films to fix apparent contradictions between them. Hal tackles one of these contradictions nicely in his Revenge of the Sith edit by having Padmé survive, which fixes the contradiction of Leia remembering her in Return of the Jedi. With this series of edits, though, that edition could also be introduced (with Hal’s blessing), or, the mention of Leia’s mother in ROTJ could be changed, if the group thinks that it would best for Padmé to die in childbirth in this particular version instead. It could go either way based off discussion and consensus.

But I also think a large collaborative process could be an exciting method to improve the films as a whole. We could go through the films as a group, suggest changes, debate on their merits, and get a consensus. While this pretty much happens on a daily basis in various threads, the decision still typically comes down to the single, primary editor and their personal preference since, in the end, they’re making it for themself. With this concept, we could give the project a set of rules or goals that we could base decisions off of, just like the Restructured editing process came down to what changes best served the objective. And if we can’t agree on things, it’s fine, because we could always take this edit and use it as a template for our own personal edits. I’m sure there would be plenty of things I would suggest that would get voted down, but that’s the point of this idea!

If we are all just going to make our own edits, then what is the point of a collaborative edit anyway? I think one of the strengths of this community is how everyone is so willing to help each other and share their work. But I also think that when we work together, we can accomplish even more than if we were on our own.

While I don’t think final decisions should even be made until Episode IX comes out, I think this kind of concept would be a really fun and interesting process to be a part of. I just look at what was accomplished with the Restructured edit, things I thought were impossible, and it legimately improved the film with seamless professional changes. I just think it would be interesting to see if this kind of process could be applicable to at least one of the films, if not the whole Saga.

While it’d be nice if these edits could stand on their own as pretty solid edits, this kind of project at the very least could be used as a database of various edits for the saga films. I know I’m being naive and this is sort of an ambitious concept (I feel like Anakin in the picnic scene). At the very least, I think it is something to think about. There are so many talented people in this community, and I think every single member can bring unique ideas and perspectives to the cutting room.

Despite our different opinions on the films, we all love Star Wars, and at the very least this would be another good excuse to get into very deep discussions on the nature of Star Wars and the films, and really break it down from the beginning to the end (for now)…

TL;DR: Who would be interested in eventually working on a collaborative edit of all nine saga films?

EDIT: Here is a list of general inconsistencies and plot questions I’ve gathered so far, some my own thoughts but mostly from across the internet. While I think a lot of these questions don’t even need edits, most could be explained,I figured I would put them on here so they can be addressed since they’re apparently commonly asked questions.

-The Phantom Menace-

Why does Obi-Wan say Yoda is the Jedi Master who trained him when that was clearly Qui-Gon Jinn? lines in question from ESB: “There you will learn from Yoda, the Jedi Master who instructed me.” and “Was I any different when you taught me?” /

Why do Jedi wear Tatooine robes? /

Why is the tech level so different from OT? /

Does the Rule of Two contradict contradict the Emperor and Vader trying to recruit Luke in ESB and ROTJ? /

-Attack of the Clones-

Why is Mace Windu the only Jedi with a purple lightsaber? /

Why was it never explained why Jedi Master “Sifo-Dyas” ordered the clone army? /

Why does Count Dooku just tell Obi-Wan the Sith’s strategy for undermining the Senate? /

-Revenge of the Sith-

If Chewbacca always knew the Jedi were real, why didn’t he ever tell Han? /

Why does Yoda run away from his fight with Palpatine? /

Why does the Death Star take so long to build?/

What’s up with Anakin’s yellow Sith eyes? Why does Anakin momentarily get them but we don’t see Dooku, Luke when he almost killed Vader, or Kylo Ren ever have them? /

-A New Hope-

How exactly is Leia a princess? /

Why didn’t the Imperials just shoot the escape pod? /

Why’d they hide Luke on Vader’s home planet and even have him keep the Skywalker name? /

Why does 3PO mention the princess on board Tantive IV, then doesn’t know about the princess when he is with Luke? / Ady handled this in original Revisited by removing 3PO’s first line on ship. He reinserted it in the Purist edition though.

Why doesn’t R2 tell Luke anything about the past? /

Why did Obi-Wan age so much between trilogies? /

Why didn’t Obi-Wan change his last name (Ben Kenobi) while in exile? /

Why doesn’t Obi-Wan remember R2 or 3PO? /

“Your father wanted you to have this when you were old enough…”/

Why did the Death Star need to travel around the moon to destroy the rebel base? Couldn’t it just blow it up? /

Are stormtroopers clones? /

-Empire Strikes Back-

How did Luke get around the blockade of Hoth? /

Why does the Empire only disable the Millennium Falcon hyperdrive and not the whole ship? /

Luke became a Jedi by training with Yoda for only a few days? /

Why does Obi-Wan call Luke their “last hope” in ESB if he knows about Leia? /

-Return of the Jedi-

Where did the second Death Star come from? How did they build it so fast? /

What was Luke’s plan to save Han? /

Why didn’t Yoda and Obi-Wan just tell Luke the truth about Vader?

How can Leia remember her mother, when Padme died in childbirth? /

Leia is Luke’s sister? Incest vibes? /

“Obi-Wan once thought as you do…” /

Why does Vader suggest destroying the Emperor in ESB, but then practically be his lap dog in ROTJ? /

How can two trees destroy an armored battle vehicle like an AT-ST? /

How did the Ewoks have a dress in Leia’s size? /

How did Anakin know how to become a force ghost? /

Why do all the force ghosts appear to Luke as he knew them in his life, except Anakin? /

-The Force Awakens-

What’s the deal with the First Order?

Where did Snoke come from?

What’s the relationship between the New Republic and the Resistance?

How does Rey speak Wookiee? /

How did Poe Dameron survive the crash landing on Jakku? /

Has Han never really used Chewbacca’s gun? /

What happened to Finn’s blaster at Maz’s castle? /

-The Last Jedi-

Why does Kylo Ren’s scar look so different than it did at the end of TFA? /

Why can’t the First Order send another ship to flank the Resistance? Why don’t they swarm them with TIE fighters? /

Why isn’t hyper speed ramming more of a thing? /

Why does Anakin’s lightsaber seem to change color between the movies? /

This is what I’ve gotten so far. It might be a good idea to look for articles addressing plot holes within each specific film. While a lot of these, in my opinion, are nitpicky, it might help us to rationalize some questions and figure out which items really deserve edits. Let me know if you have any other ideas.

I believe Telecine was the first to remove a deleted scene time code, specifically the ‘Kylo Searches the Falcon’ deleted scene. He did a pretty good job, and I believe Sir Ridley has mentioned having a go at it as well for his own edit (correct me if I’m wrong).

I think Sir Ridley and Neverar also collabed on fixing/color grading the ‘Leia and the Resistance’ deleted scene as well as a bit of the Jakku Message scene, but the dialogue was modified to serve the Restructured edit. That’s all of the TFA deleted scenes I believe.

I can’t personally speak on what is possible or impractical, but if you don’t mind me interjecting, I would also consider which of these scenes are really worth the trouble.

I definitely think Ridley having a go at the Kylo/Falcon scene would be a nice addition to the film and doable. And you pointed out some details with some of the TLJ deleted scenes that I hadn’t noticed. I think fixing little errors in the jacket scene, BB8 message scene, the caretaker village sequence, and certain moments of the Supremecy Incursion might be worth the trouble for some. I’m not sure many of the unfinished scenes would be worth the effort, but maybe shots could be scavenged from them.

Regardless, I really like the idea of making a database of usable deleted scenes overtime as people edit them.