Here’s a really rough cut of that idea I did quickly, just to see what it might look like. May or may not work, but gotta at least try it to see how if it even could work.
https://vimeo.com/282439607
Password: fanedit
Here’s my train of thought with the Rose getting shot down idea.
During the skimmer approach, a few skimmers get shot down by AT-ATs. We get shots of the AT-ATs, CU shots of Resistance pilots, then wider shots of the skimmers getting shot down. We also have shots of Poe reacting to the losses, which makes him decide to turn back. Basically, I was thinking replacing one of the Resistance pilot close-ups with a close-up shot of Rose, to imply she got shot down. After her skimmer gets shot down, it cuts back to Poe and we hear Finn shout “Rose!” over the comms.
When Poe decides to turn back, people could infer Finn doesn’t want to give up also because he doesn’t want Rose’s possible death to be in vain, and if she is still alive, he wants to be able to give her a chance. One could have it where Poe is the one protesting when Finn raises his mic up instead of Rose. Just take a line of his from that moment and cut it short, or just him simply saying, “Finn!” I think one could just trim around Rose when needed.
If you want to keep the shot of him reaching her skimmer, you would need to cut the wide shot of the skimmers that shows them close together, and you also would need to space out the shot of him jumping out of his skimmer and then reaching Rose’s. There’s not a lot to work with at this point, but this is one idea I had:
You would need to cut those shots out of the initial moments of Finn’s sacrifice run, and also replace the sound since that sacrifice music swell already begins by that point.
The pros to keep the moment is that, one, it is a character moment for Rose and Finn, you could keep the kiss and it seems more tragic than weird since Rose didn’t cause Finn to crash in this scenario, and you also can see the door actually get destroyed, which you lose by cutting this moment. At this point the heroes have tried everything they can and all seems lost.
Also, you could possibly use a 4K version of the “skimmers crashing into each other” shot and crop it to help hide the fact that it is two skimmers instead of one.
But like I’ve said, I think you can still go with this idea and still cut Finn reaching Rose’s speeder. Heck, if you had to cut that, you could also cut Finn getting out of his skimmer. That way we don’t know if Rose OR Finn are dead until Luke shows up, and hope begins returning.
Definitely not trying to tell you what to do, but I do think this is a moment that a lot of people have issues with, and it is interesting to see how it can be edited. I just would like to be able to retain as much of the movie as possible, since the more one cuts, the less things makes sense, like Rose being missing for the last ten minutes of the film.
Anyway, just giving you some stuff to think about! I’ll probably try all of this myself at some point too. In the meantime, I’ll keep an eye out of any BB-8 shots that might be useful.
Hmmm, that’s an interesting thought. I worry that it would throw off the pacing, but the thought of how her reaching the lightsaber out and then catching it is kind of cool. It’s something you’d definitely have to see, you know?
Yeah, I totally understand. I think that way is probably the best way to remove it, for sure. I would like to see someone try to make small changes that help make it work for others, though, possibly by adding a quick shot of the door with the sound of metal straining to imply she’s pulling on it with the Force, and also having only the music and no “swooshing” sounds when she starts flying back toward the ship. I honestly think it is that initial shot of her flying that throws people off. Possibly altering the shot itself or simply having music being the only sound in that shot could possibly help. But until then I guess just cutting it out will have to work for those who don’t like it.
I feel like someone mentioned that something in that shot was incomplete, but I went back and watched it a few times and didn’t notice anything. I mean it is a really short scene anyway, so I doubt people would notice any tiny missing details like that.
Yeah, I saw you suggest the same thing over in Hal’s thread! I think that would do the trick, it is just a matter of figuring out how to go about including it, what the best shot would be, etc. etc.
So with the ending scene, you would intercut between when Rey is leaving and when Rey has already reached Luke? Hmm, I see what you’re going for, but I’m not sure that would work. You’d probably be better off either including the Ach-To ending or just end after the Falcon jumps into hyperspace like you were planing to do.
I like how Snoke’s last line or two was removed and how you have just the music and Rey/Ben’s expressions sell the moment when he betrays Snoke, but did you ever make a version of this with its theatrical music? Nothing against it, just think the music in that moment was already good, and the TFA music just sticks out to me. I see why it was used, though.
I agree with Eddie! You probably should wait about explaining how the saber got to Maz until we see if Episode IX says anything about it.
As far as when Rey could hear voices, I think they aren’t really necessary for TLJ.
While I understand why you have that idea, I think hearing faint laughter when Rey lifts rocks could take away from the drama of the moment.
I think little things like Rey hearing voices before she sees the Force tree, and Yoda showing up later in the movie could help connect the Force guidance idea. Maybe at the most you could add Yoda, Obi or even Qui-Gon to the voices she hears in that moment.
But as far as TFA, these are the moments I think it would be appropriate for her to hear voice echoes:
In Maz’s castle, calling her to the saber.
During the Force vision.
If you give her a dream before she wakes up in the interrogation room.
Maybe during Rey/Kylo’s mental fight.
Maybe during the mind trick scene.
When Rey and Kylo have their saber’s crossed.
I think that would be a good amount, give or take one or two, without it being too much.
Also, I see that you you’re gonna cut Luke’s island stuff from the end of the movie and make some of it a dream earlier in the movie. I think I’d like to see it, but I think you lose something by not having Rey ascend the “Jedi steps” and finally reach Luke at the end of the film. Would you bring all of that stuff into TLJ? Just don’t know if it would work. Also would hate to lose that cool “Rey’s journey” idea you had for it.
See, I’m the complete opposite. I was grinning ear to ear during the Leia scene.
But it’s interesting to see people’s different perspectives on it. I think there is a way to make it worth for those who weren’t crazy about it. At least having it explains how Leia survives and literally everyone else on the bridge doesn’t, which is the cost of removing that moment.
Regardless, cool seeing your own preferences poppasketti! While I don’t agree with all of them, I’ll try to think of ways to make some of your changes work. For Finn and Rose’s escape, maybe someone could insert a CG model of BB-8 into one of that just establishes that he’s back with them.
Also, I don’t think removing the Finn/Phasma fight would take away from his character arc if you reinserted the deleted scene if Finn and Rose in the ship, where he declares there going back to where they belong. I think Finn came to this conclusion when he saw how doing nothing like DJ is only helping the bad guys win. By not choosing a side, you choose a side. Does Hal’s edit keep that scene of Finn and Rose flying to Crait? Can’t remember.
I also think jarbear does bring up a good point about Finn’s Sacrifice and Rose’s involvement. You do end up with Rose strangely missing from the last few minutes of the film.
I’ve mentioned these to darthrush on his thread, but there could be two other options to address this.
One, you could have Rose be in one of the skimmers that gets shot by the AT-ATs during the approach, and have Finn scream “Rose!” over the comms when it happens. You could either have a heavily trimmed version of him reaching Rose in her crashed skimmer, or keep it out and assume he got her between when we see him get out of his own skimmer and him dragging her back into the base.
Another option would be trying to lean into the theatrical version more and try to make her actions work. You could possibly move the moment when Rose looks at her necklace to later, where it makes it seem she is connecting her sister’s death with Finn’s potential death, which would drive her to want to stop him. It’d also be nice if it didn’t look like she turned out, but was still going towards the First Order to help explain how she reached Finn so fast. And possibly have the canon fire pretty quickly after they get knocked out of the way. Maybe these little changes, with some possible line cuts, could help make the moment work.
Just some ideas, but I do think something should be considered to keep Rose being the one injured by the end of the film.
Anyway, good luck to you poppasketti!
There’s both pros and cons to this idea.
It wouldn’t be too much of a stretch to suggest this, since it almost seems like Obi-Wan was trying to communicate with Rey during her vision. You can hear old Obi say “Rey” and young Obi say “These are your first steps.”
You might could subtly add Obi-Wan’s line regarding the Force having a strong influence on the weak-minded right before Rey tries to use a mind trick. I’m not sure where Yoda’s voice could be added besides the Force vision…
Maybe instead of hearing the sound of a child (young Rey) crying in Maz’s castle, Yoda’s voice could be calling her towards the lightsaber. Though this could take away from her hearing her own cries and what that means. Though I’m not sure how it is related to the saber exactly, but it could just represent its connection to the Force and the past, both to Rey’s and the Skywalkers’.
When Kylo and Rey are clashing sabers, maybe one of their voices could be heard saying something while Rey’s eyes are closed. Like, Yoda or Obi-Wan saying “Let go [Rey].”
I think these type of additions shouldn’t necessarily be blatant, but they could hint that they are taking an active role from the netherworld.
Though one could argue that this could take away from Rey’s own agency, since she would be basically getting help from others. But if you just simply replace the apparent “will of the Force” with the hint that is Yoda and Obi-Wan, you wouldn’t be making it any more Deus Ex Machina than it already is at least, if that is how one interprets it.
And at least now it is other characters that are driving these moments rather than the Force in a very ambiguous way, if that makes sense. Also, if you make it seem that Rey has a choice to listen to them or not, then I think she would retain her agency.
Regardless, I think one should also look at Rey’s abilities from a narrative and thematic perspective. You could argue that Rey is a fast learner because she simply just believes in the Force enough that she can do it. She doesn’t have the same kind of self-doubt that young Luke had. And Rey is demonstrated to be a good fighter, so her being able to get the hang of a lightsaber quickly isn’t too much a stretch either. Once you know how to tap into the Force, it can help control your actions while also obeying your commands, like Obi-Wan said. So her being good at various things is basically her partially letting herself go and letting the Force guide her.
Actually, this interpretation isn’t really far off from your Obi-Wan/Yoda idea, so you could go with this approach and argue that they are just an extension of the will of the Force, acting on its behalf.
I would interpret this as Yoda and Obi-Wan guiding Rey to connect to the Force, rather than Yoda or Obi-Wan acting through her directly. The Force is flowing through her, and Yoda and Obi-Wan are now one with the Force. It is both controlling Rey’s actions but also obeying her commands. In a way, adding Obi and Yoda’s voices is merely giving the character of the Force a voice.
I think that’s a good idea. The “clean ship” angle isn’t really necessary. Han doesn’t know where the Resistance is, but Maz might. Plus, we’ll know Han doesn’t want to take them to the Resistance himself in the later conversation with Maz, so we really have all of the information we need.
Do you feel like changing Han’s line about a clean ship would be an issue still?
I mean, I guess you could just start that shot a little later, with “If you want to get that droid to the Resistance, Maz is your best bet.” Or keep the whole shot(s) and just recreate the audio without the earlier dialogue. You can kind of tell those lines were added later, anyway.
Hey! I think that can work. Now that you bring that up I actually remember that shot of Han messing around with that box you mention and had a similar thought as you. Just think this would require less to change and also fix that issue.
And you’re totally right about flashing lights. Adding those flickering lights to R2 worked wonders for having him wake up later make sense. That was you who did that, right?
Maybe there could be a way to make the tracking plot function clearer?
Another option could be to animate some kind of flashing light on a terminal in the Falcon, to maybe indicate that something is being broadcasted, like their location. While I don’t know which shot you could use exactly, you could place it after the reaction shot of BB-8 after the ship blows a fuse and Rey and Finn hurry over to fix it, or after the Falcon falls out of hyperspace.
I just don’t think removing the tracking plot device is worth cutting up that Finn/Rey moment.
I think this is an interesting idea. Though would it seem weird that Finn and Rey haven’t had their introductions until they arrive at this new system? We can assume that they were just sitting there for quite sometime during the journey. And because of that, their excitement after what just happened would seem rather delayed, don’t you think?
I seem some people speculating that these 12 episodes might only be the beginning of even more episodes in the future, but based off the last clip in the trailer and the poster itself, we will be getting the Siege of Mandalore arc, and I believe that is meant to be the last arc in the series, since it coincides with Revenge of the Sith.
Yes, the show isn’t in chronological order, so they could keep going with stuff that happened before Order 66, but I don’t see that happening. So I think these 12 episodes are it.
I’ve heard that the Siege of Mandalore is a 4-Episode arc, so if I had to guess, we’ll be getting the Bad Batch arc (based off the middle clip), the Crystal Crisis on Utupau (since this arc and Bad Batch seem to have been in the same stage of development this is an educated guess), and the Siege of Mandalore.
I guess it might be a tad dissappointing, but not everyone has seen the unfinished episodes, and I’m just happy we are getting more Clone Wars. I also think those are all three solid arcs to end it with.
Maybe I’m wrong and they’ll go with two two-part arcs, or one of them is a three-part arc and we’ll get a standalone episode too. Or maybe each episode we’ll be an hour rather than 30 minutes, which would double the room for more episodes. But the most realistic answer to me is we are getting three four-part arcs and that will be it.
Regardless, I’m looking forward to whatever they decide to show us!
I didn’t realize the original track was combination of multiple takes! Cool info!
What are your reasons? Is the fact you mentioned earlier one of them?
Yeah, I think there are quite a few versions of the theme to choose from. I’m glad I’m not the only one who had this idea!
I’ve done it for my prequel edits. TPM retains its recording, though I’ve swapped out AOTC and ROTS. Originally I had Gerhardt’s for AOTC and an alternate take from the original SW for ROTS, but now I’m leaning towards McNeely for AOTC and Williams’s Hollywood Sound recording for ROTS.
I also guess I need to find one for TLJ.
I don’t know if I’ve heard the alternate version. Was it on the Complete Score album? I think released in 97 and rereleased in 04?
Technically Williams did rerecord for TLJ, though for whatever reason it was not ultimately used. Hopefully that’s not the case next time.
He did? That is interesting. Where did you read that he did rerecord the main title? Too bad it can’t be accessed anywhere.
I’ll just say I don’t think the Skywalker Symphony performance would work due to the slower than typical pacing. I should also probably point out that the Life in Music recording was not conducted by Williams, though it’s still a good one.
Yeah, after playing it side-by-side I do notice the slower pacing of the Skywalker Symphony performance. So the song probably would overlap a little if someone tried to use it.
And thanks for pointing that out! I’m surprised his name is so hard to find, but the Life in Music conductor’s name is Gavin Greenaway. It is a really solid performance though, so if you had no qualms about using McNeely or Gerhardt’s versions, it is still a very good choice, especially since it was performed by the London Symphony Orchestra.
So total, that gives you:
Which versions did you use, if you can remember?
And wow, I actually didn’t notice that TFA and TLJ seem to use the same recording for the Main Title. If that’s the case, Episode IX will more than likely use the same recording as well, and I personally think it would be interesting if each film used a unique recording.
Since IX will probably be John Williams’ last Star Wars film, maybe he will re-record it. If he doesn’t though, there are some more options.
I did manage to find a few more versions of the Main Title, such as this one:
Varujan Kojian, Utah Symphony Orchestra, 1983
But after enough searching I actually think I found enough versions actually conducted by Williams that could be used for two prequels and two sequels.
John Williams, Boston Pops Orchestra, 1993
The Hollywood Sound album, 1997
John Williams and the London Symphony Orchestra
John Williams Conducts John Williams, 1990, Skywalker Symphony Orchestra
I didn’t know about this, but John Williams actually came out with a collab album with the LSO this year of some of his greatest hits!
John Williams, A Life in Music, 2018
London Symphony Orchestra
So I definitely would have to go with these four John Williams recordings, that way they are all still Williams:
Boston Pops Orchestra
The Hollywood Sound, LSO
Skywalker Symphony Orchestra
A Life in Music, LSO
These can all be found on Spotify, but I believe all of the albums are also available on Amazon, and you probably can find YouTube videos of them as well.
Unless others can find more options, these would be my picks, though like I said, not sure which recordings could go with which movie. They all have a unique sound, and I just thought it would be a cool idea to showcase some of John Williams’ other great performances of this classic theme that people might not usually hear.
Since all three prequel films use the same recording for the main title (if what I’ve heard in the past is true) has anyone considered using different versions of the main title for two of the prequel films? I’m having trouble finding other John Williams recordings beyond what was used for the other films, but I do think other non-Williams recordings could be interesting to use too.
Two possible versions could be Joel McNeely’s recording from 1996 for the Shadows of the Empire soundtrack-
and another is Charles Gerhardt’s 1978 recording from his Classic Film Scores series.
I’m not sure which would go with which film, just thought it’d be interesting for all of the films to have unique main title recordings.
Sounds cool Ady! Looking forward to seeing it.
Interesting! I liked (and now love) LOTR too, I mean that trilogy is damn near perfect, but there wasn’t a lot of stuff outside the movies that kept my interest as a kid.
I like that you brought up the Clone Wars micro-series! While it was way too short, I was a huge Samurai Jack fan, so I really loved what little we got of it. And it helped bridge Episodes 2 and 3, and helped me enjoy those characters even more.
Which I kind of think is something the ST is lacking. Not to get into it, but I don’t think TLJ and ST in general would be getting as much flack if we were getting more material regarding those characters and the events that took place in between 6 and 7. Obviously I see why they didn’t do that, but I think future content will cover that, so while a lot of current fans might have issues with the ST, future fans who grow up with those gaps filled won’t.
Once the ST is done, hopefully future content won’t be as held back. I’m hoping Jedi: Fallen Order will be interesting, but it is sad to think that is the only other Star Wars game publicly announced, since Project Ragtag was scrapped and now being turned into something else, with no set release time. I think Battlefront is fun and all but I really don’t know what EA is doing. I don’t think they do either. I think DICE and the other developers want to make great Star Wars games, but they’ve kind of been getting screwed over. I guess it is a quality of quantity approach, but I kind of miss the days of Lucasarts. I’m hoping they’ll ramp up game production in the future though.
This is a great topic. I think a lot of people will have varying answers though.
There’s a lot of ways to answer that question. Is “better than ever” related to general popularity, quality of the films, financial value/success of the brand?
Star Wars becomes something personal for each fan, and I think every fan will be biased with their answer.
I grew up during the prequel era, so despite the critical reception of those films, I feel it was a great time for the franchise. A lot of great games, books, toys, eventually The Clone Wars, and as a kid I loved the prequel movies too.
I think each era of the franchise had something special to it: the OT era, the dark times (87-91) when all fans really had was the tabletop rpg, the birth of the EU in the 90s, the prequel era, the “post-saga” 2005-2012~ period, and now, the Disney era. While some eras had more content, I think there is also something special about the fans who had very little content, but had their imagination to explore that galaxy.
And I think even the post Disney-era will have different “periods”, too. Personally, I think there hasn’t been a lot of meaty content outside the films for fans since the Disney acquisition. Disney/EA has kind of dropped the ball on the game-front, and I kind of feel like besides a few gems, the books have been afraid to step on the toes of the filmmakers, so a lot of the non-film material feels inconsequential besides maybe Rebels. Lucasfilm has been finding its footing since the acquisition.
I think from a kid’s perspective, there hasn’t been a whole lot to latch onto compared to when I was a kid. If I were a kid now, I probably would’ve gravitated towards Marvel stuff inbetween the SW movie releases.
But I think if I was a kid now I would also be really excited for the future. Like you mentioned Dom, there is so much more on the horizon that the next generation of fans will have. Brand new movies, multiple tv series, hopefully interesting books and video games. The best era of Star Wars might not even be here yet.
I’ve heard a lot about War of the Stars but I have never sat down and watched it. I’ll have to do that now!
That totally makes sense though. It’d be easier to take a quality source like 4K77 and downgrade it to match, or at least get close to, the quality of the deleted scenes. There’s a lot more control to that approach.
Definitely not a reign of terror, Hal!
I know this has been discussed as nauseum, but I do hope 9 is the end of it.
I’m okay with future movies about Rey, Kylo Ren, a new Jedi Order, etc., I just wish they wouldn’t use the titles of 10, 11 and 12. Let the Skywalker Saga be 1-9. A trilogy of trilogies.
Either way Hal, even if they kept going you could just say that your series only consists of 1-9, because I feel that even if 9 concludes in a way where there is room for future stories, I also feel they’ll want to end it in a way that also is a nice book end to the whole saga.
Oh okay, thanks for the insight! Well either way, I’m behind whatever he decides on. These are his edits so I want him to do whatever is more enjoyable for him. Designing a new shuttle sounds like it could be a fun project, so if he goes with that I’ll also be excited to see it.