It is literally unnoticeable. Looks perfect!
Not exactly related, but the way the music transition between that scene and the following sandcrawler shot, is that just how it is in that version of the audio? Seems like a very brief crossfade, or whatever you want to call it.
Yup. The roomtone really brings the feeling of the movie back to 1977. The movies aren’t shot too differently either (even though Gilbert Taylor was miles better than David Tattersall)
I actually sourced the grain from the 35mm prequel trailers lol. I’ll try it in black though, just to see what it’s like.
I should’ve figured you did! I dunno, the grain is a little bit different between the trailers, but the white grain doesn’t seem as pronounced as it did in your test. In the Czech one’s, it looks like it is a mix of both, with a little more black grain, but still, it isn’t like grindhouse level grain if you know what I mean.
Yeah, the room tone was a solid idea. Maybe you could also tone it down just a tad like littlev87 also suggested.
Something I’m working on with Snooker’s Death Star hologram idea:
https://streamable.com/wn5tmIn the context of that scene it makes sense that the plans are a contribution to the “rebel” cause.
Perhaps the dialog order should be changed so that we view the hologram right after the plans are mentioned.
But you get the idea 😉I think having the Death Star here ties-in all the movies very well.
This is pretty cool! It’s cool seeing the Death Star plans floating in the middle like that. The subtitles work to fit it well in that moment, too. Too bad Poggle doesn’t talk at all at this moment, it would be nice to keep the idea that the Geonosian’s were the one’s to design the initial Death Star plans rather than the alien that speaks.
That clip also reminded me of how poor quality in comparison that first Padme deleted scene is, which is a shame, because it is the only time we really see her being a senator in this film. I mean, it isn’t awful, just noticeable, you know?
That clip gave me another idea, which I think may have been suggested before. But when we cut to that first scene with Palpatine and the Jedi, it would be interesting if it started off with them watching a hologram of Dooku speaking to Separatist senators. You could use dialogue from the deleted scene where he says, “The Republic cannot be fixed… it is time to start over” then followed by the sounds of a cheering audience, then it cuts away. Then they could go into their conversation as is.
I always felt that was a dull scene, so getting a little glimpse of this mysterious Count Dooku would be interesting. Although not sure how feasible that idea is.
In an effort to give Phantom Menace a more down-to-earth, cheery vibe:
A lot of edits cut out this scene, which is a great shame. It’s one of the few times characters genuinely smile.
Huh, I like what you’ve done with it.
I personally would tone down the grain a little. Maybe try to match the grain of the 4K projects or the 35mm prequel trailers. I don’t know. Maybe black grain wouldn’t stand out as much as white.
Also, did you do something with audio? Like, add room tone and foley? If you did, I really like it.
I think the reason some people cut it is because the decoy Queen orders specifically the real queen to clean the droid, which raises a few
questions.
Honestly, though, you could still keep R2’s intro, but cut the Queen ordering Padmé to clean him. You could splice two shots together to have Padmé still be behind her when she says, “It deserves our gratitude.” Then just use the shot of Padmé walking over to R2, but during that shot have the Queen say, “Continue Captain.” Then it can continue as-is.
I personally don’t think the close up of Padmé cleaning R2 works, but that’s just me.
I know this is the prequel thread but I’m gonna to go ahead and respond to Nev’s post.
You know, a lot of the swampy junkyard planet concept art is very cool and I know a lot of people wish we had gotten that over what we got, but to me, it makes less sense than what we got.
It wouldn’t take long for metal on a swamp planet to become corroded and useless. At least in the desert, it makes sense that even 30 years after all of these vehicles have been abandoned, that their parts have been pretty well preserved enough to still carry some value.
Sure, I know that in Star Wars visuals regularly trump logic (like how it would be impossible to even breathe on a planet like Mustafar, etc etc), this is enough for me to not be heartbroken over not getting a swampy Jakku.
I feel like there could’ve been a nice middle ground though. The locations they filmed at are fine, reals sets practical effects yada yada, but I feel that more CG elements could’ve been added to these worlds to give them more character.
Which, luckily, would still put those possibilities in the realm of fan editors.
Let’s look at three of TFA’s big planets: Jakku, Takodana, and Starkiller Base (D’Qar also briefly).
I feel like certain elements could be added to these worlds to set them more apart.
With Jakku, you could add even more wrecked vehicles, oases in the distance, ‘dust devil’ twisters, or large planets or moons in the sky, similar to what we see in that first piece of concept art. At the very least you could keep adding stuff in the background so we see visible junk in the distance of almost every shot, instead of empty deserts (the visual of the standing, derelict AT-AT’s is a pretty cool idea). Maybe more Star Destroyers, corellian corvettes and Mon Cala ships could be added in too. Or why not fields of dozens of downed TIEs or rebel fighters? It’s a junk planet, let’s see more junk!
With Takodana, Maz’s castle is suggested to be an ancient Jedi temple. The planet itself is said to be the site of a long-forgotten battle between the Jedi and the Sith. So what if you went the Jedha route and added more ancient ruins in the background and in the forests? Almost like the Númenorean ruins from Lord of the Rings. Or you could add more buildings out behind Maz’s castle to suggest there is a small village or town there (or a ruined city, like Valyria in Game of Thrones), and/or have more traffic coming and going over the lake. Maybe more exotic mountains could be added in the background, too.
With Starkiller, it is hinted at that the site of this First Order Base is actually Ilum, the ancient world where Jedi would collect the crystals for their lightsabers. So, maybe you could added distant Jedi ruins, like Takodana, or have large kyber crystals jutting out of the ground in various wide/establishing shots of the planet. You could have glowing crystals hanging from the ceiling of Snoke’s hologram chamber. I could even picture faintly glowing crystals sticking out of the ground here and there during the duel in the forest.
I also think adding a large gas giant somewhere near Starkiller could help downplay its scale, making its construction by the hidden First Order less questionable, while also being an ironic inverse of the fourth moon of Yavin. This time it is a moon, and a battle station!
I don’t have many ideas for D’Qar beyond trying to make its ring visible from the planet surface. Maybe we could recolor the plant life, maybe to yellow or orange, which would then make the planet look a different color from space? Heck, maybe if you could somehow add various autumn colors to either Takodana or D’Qar, it could help differentiate those planets. You could at least recolor D’Qar yellow/orange to help separate it from Takodana and Yavin, perhaps.
But rather than totally replacing or redesigning these planets, we could just lean even more heavily into what makes these planets interesting, in order to make them stand out more in our memories.
I think a big motivation to have the settings be more Earth-like was so that you could film in real locations, which means they will both feel real onscreen and benefit the actors’ performances, since they won’t be completely surrounded by green screen stages.
But, I feel like a good middle ground for the Sequel Trilogy would’ve been to film at real locations, but enhance those locations with CG elements. A nice middle ground between the OT and the PT.
I guess the big question would be how feasible would these ideas be, but I don’t think they’re totally out of the realm of possibility for all the creative people we have here.
I think the digital zooms could be slowed down, it’s still a bit too obvious. I probably would only increase the scale 10%, if that. I like what you’re going for though, and I do think it is an improvement over your last version.
My favorite part of this video though is you putting a tissue on your head and the rest of that moment. Very funny of you to address that!
Very cool mockups Snooker!
What does Geonosis being a junk planet add to the story, if I may ask?
Also, the old design plans for the Death Star look great! I’m in love with it. I think for any fan edit that still features that element in AOTC, that the old design should definitely be used. I think that idea could be extended to the Death Star at the end of ROTS and moving the dish to the equator, since apparently that Death Star is only a prototype and not the final one we see in ANH. It would make that clearer at least.
Did it take a lot of time to do that? I feel it could be a great asset for others.
You know, you also could have the Death Star hologram appear in the middle of the meeting room during the scene where Dooku speaks with the Separatist leaders, if you wanted to find ways to give the plans more screentime.
I feel like Anakin and Padmé’s relationship being forbidden is important for the story, but I understand why you might want to remove that idea.
Continue to share stuff with us, man! Looking cool.
EDIT: Have you tried making the hologram red like the original? I like it how you have it too but it might look good that way as well and fit more with the red flash after he closes the hologram.
Pssh, making stuff up? These are legitimate facts, Dom.
EDIT: Did want to chime back in say that although your ST blame feels a bit premature, that I do somewhat agree with your points regarding Lucas, Val.
Honestly, I’ve been thinking about doing one recently.
I thought it was pretty good in theaters, but only saw it once. I watched again recently and I enjoyed it even more. It is just a fun ride, in my opinion.
I’ve been waiting to see if someone would make a nice LUT to use for a brighter color grade, but beyond that I just wanted to trim stuff here and there to cut about 15 minutes to get the runtime down to 2 hours in order to make it a bit “faster”, and “more intense”.
I’d understand if Ady doesn’t want the battle droid in. If he released the asset at least for others to use I would be more than happy with that too! He might not have a HQ version though so might not be worth the extra effort.
I always assumed the 3PO-Princess contradiction issue had something to do with his programming. Like, he could talk about the Princess with R2 because R2 is already aware of the Princess and her position in the Rebellion. But when communicating with others without a certain “clearance level”, his programming automatically omits any sensitive information, so he couldn’t verbally leak anything even if he wanted to. Someone would just have to hack into his memory banks to find out anything, which is why memory wipes would still be necessary.
If 3PO was just lying, it wouldn’t really make sense why 3PO kept going on saying “I don’t think he likes you at all… no, I don’t like you either” even after Luke left. Just doesn’t seem like he is “in on it”. It seems like he is being honest during that entire scene. The only problem with this is 3PO still casually throws out the line “oh with the Rebellion and all…”
I don’t know. I guess it is just a headcanon for me to explain it, but I understood why Ady changed it in the first place.
Take your time man. The technical stuff is always the most challenging part (for me, at least). You’ll get it figured out!
That’s really weird. I’ve never heard of that before. I don’t recall Rinzler’s book mentioning such a scene at all. What is the source on that, I wonder?
I think just seeing Star Destroyers jumping to hyperspace in retreat at the end of the battle would be enough to maintain the sense of victory, but also that some of the Imperials got away to fight another day (or decade).
Super super random thought, but I know a lot of debate was had over the contradiction of the plans being “beamed” to the Tantive IV according to ANH and then seeing it brought onto the ship physically in Rogue One.
There was some interesting ideas to alleviate this, and maybe this was one of them, but I wonder in the end if you could just alter it to remove or cover up the the data disc in the Rebels’ hands, and just make it like they are just trying to get off the Raddus and evacuate to the Tantive IV, and Vader is just trying to board it to prevent its escape.
You could just cut the shot of them downloading the plans to the disc, and trim out the disc being passed off, “Take it!”. I would also cut the shot of Vader watching the Tantive IV flying away. I also read the idea that Vader was using the Force to keep the door shut, so it would be interesting to add a very subtle “Force” sound to imply that idea more.
So even though we don’t see the transmission downloading onto the Tantive IV’s computers? The audience could just assume that when Jyn started broadcasting the plans, that any ship could download it, and they were the only ship to complete the download and actually escape. I think that is easier to rationalize than the “beaming” versus “boarding” contradiction.
Shroud of the Dark Side did this
While I personally don’t like the idea of inserting footage from other stuff (besides how Hal made Padmé survived), Shroud had a lot of cool ideas.
It also has my favorite alternate title for Attack of the Clones.
Well since this war has literally only lasted like a day or two in universe, I really don’t mind that they haven’t already named it. It’ll probably get an official name after Episode IX.
Not specifically related to Anakin’s comment, but it feels like can’t we have any mystery anymore but instead it’s just a sign of underdevelopment when the people at Lucasfilm don’t want to give people everything at once. It’s like things aren’t moving fast enough for people. If we don’t have all the information and backstory immediately, then it must be a weak story filled with plot holes and a sign that they have no plan.
The Sequel Trilogy started development in 2012-2013 and won’t be done until 2019. So give or take six to seven years. We’re not going to learn all of the details until it is over because they don’t want additional material to contradict the movies before they even come out. Just feels like people are more impatient than they used to be, or can’t be satisfied with their imagination filling in the gaps until then.
Wookiepedia refers to it as the First Order-Resistance War, but I’ve also heard the First Order-Resistance Conflict. I personally like to call it the First Order Crisis, which I think has a better ring to it and not as long-winded.
It would be cool if they did something like Shadows of the Empire.
I like how the time span of each trilogy has gotten shorter. The Prequels were 13 years, the Originals 4 years, and the Sequels a little over 1 year.
Yeah, I definitely would be okay if Ady decided to get creative with those aspects of the film.
Though I’m kind of curious to see how much of an affect can be had by altering these things in post. Yes, a lot of shots would’ve been nice with different lighting, but can we improve what is there by adjusting things like color? What about contrast? Could make the shadows darker help give it a look more comparable to Empire? It would be interesting to see some comparisons and see how much can certain things be improved before it’s taken too far and looks wrong.
It would be nice if there was a noticeable difference. I’ve kinda felt ROTJ’s weaker lighting at times also led to certain special effects standing out more in comparison to many of ESB’s effects, like with certain creatures or effects.
Anyway, really interesting article.
EC Henry, a YouTuber that I enjoy that regularly does videos on Star Wars and Star Trek, just released a video talking about the First Order insignia. Thought you guys might find it interesting too.
Eh, I think reactions will be different for generations to come who will be able to watch the entire saga one episode after the other. I mean, yeah, they might have expectations between each movie, but the time for them to build up any expectations will be hours/days/weeks rather than years to decades like many of us. Sure, not every kid is going to like it, but there are going to be kids who love it too.
Considering Abrams also produced the Last Jedi, I would be really surprised if JJ goes in a different direction that is his “original vision”. I guess we’ll see in a year, though, and I guess this debate can never really be resolved until then either.
I didn’t get the impression that Luke had such a strategy in mind based on his interactions with Rey. If anything, during their time together he should have been pleased that his plan has worked so well, and that another powerful source of light has arisen in the galaxy to challenge Snoke and Kylo. If Luke had simply said in the Jedi Tree that the entire religion was fatally flawed, they could have gotten past their antagonism and into a more interesting and rewarding track. Luke could have realized what Rey wanted and said ‘I won’t teach you the Jedi ways, but I can be a mentor and a friend.’ Then when Rey dives into her dark interludes with Kylo the inevitable fallout would be sharper for her growing friendship with the former Jedi.
Apparently the line, “It’s time for the Jedi to end” was originally a longer one, and I sort of think it may have given more context to Luke’s position.
I mean I think Luke’s perspective is implied by a lot of what he says. In his conversation with Rey about Jedi hubris, the rise of Sidious and Vader and then the eventual fall of Ben Solo, you can see that he is trying to get her to understand the cycle of good and evil.
He does want Rey to become something different, which is why he explains to her what the Force is, and how one does not have to be a Jedi to serve the light.
I think Rey continues to question Luke because she has heard the tales of the Jedi, and believe in what they represent. If she had never heard of a Jedi, maybe she wouldn’t have disagreed with Luke as much.
Maybe if Luke had lines being more direct, mentioning an actual “cycle” or telling Rey she could be something different, it would have been made clearer. I do feel like he was reluctant to train her partly because the line between teaching her about the Force and teaching her how to be a Jedi is thin, and if he taught her too much then the cycle would just start again. It isn’t until towards the end of the film that he believes that taking the lessons from the past and trying to learn from them is better than just completely starting over, he gets that hope back.
I think the the shadow discussion from my previous post carries over to this. The Jedi were concerned with purging/repressing their shadows, when they actually should’ve acknowledged their shadows, similar to how Luke acknowledges the dark side not being something inherently evil, like the Jedi thought. Fear and anger aren’t inherently evil emotions, but where evil comes in is how you act on those emotions.
The way I have come to like the political situation in the new movies is by looking at the galaxy almost like an individual, and apply Jungian archetypes, which is often used to analyze characters in the films.
If the Old Republic was like a person, then Sidious was like a person’s Shadow. So when the Old Republic transformed into the Empire, it was like that person’s conscious self became a slave to the autonomous shadow, controlled by their more negative qualities. The Rebel Alliance was like the conscious ego taking control back, but in the end of the ROTJ, the Rebels merely purged/repressed/disowned the Shadow. So one could look at the Rebels/Republic/Resistance and the Empire/First Order as two halves of the same person, like a Jekyll and Hyde, the Ego and the Shadow.
The New Republic seemingly never resolved that problem until, after being repressed for so long, exploded, coming back even worse than before, like a soda that is shaken up and the pressure is suddenly released.
For a person to be more “balanced”, per se, they must find self-actualization or self-realization, and to do that once must integrate their shadow. Basically, someone who reincorporates the shadow into their personality, produces a stronger, wider consciousness in themselves than before. They have to acknowledge their dark side in order to become a fully realized individual.
A lot of this rests on how Episode IX pans out, but if this idea continues into the conclusion, then I would think IX would end in the reunification of the First Order and the Resistance. It sounds a little crazy, but I imagine they could achieve this theme either through Kylo Ren, who controls the First Order and could possibly be redeemed, thus reintegrating the First Order, or through Finn, who will take the lessons he learned from the last two films and help liberate the bulk of the First Order military, the Stormtroopers, from their servitude.
The lessons learned from understanding and dealing with one’s shadow is a big aspect of the Star Wars film, being represented by the dark side of the Force, and both being a metaphor for facing one’s own negative qualities, impulses or emotions. So to me the political situation, which I still could have been explained better in the films, is a continuation of those themes. And looking at it now feels like having the threat being a resurgent Empire was the natural direction to take for this final trilogy. Maybe they could have told that story in different ways, but I don’t think the way they are telling it goes against the Saga. It’s the opposite, to me, at least.
Agreed.
Like I mentioned and Nev suggested, having Anakin in the temple would be the latest we could really see him.
If you had Mace go by himself, and cut the dialogue between him and Palpatine, maybe you could imply Mace went to align himself with Palpatine. That would help explain the whole “betrayed and murdered your father” bit. The only issue would be making it to where Mace was one of Obi-Wan’s students.
Otherwise, you would need to make a totally new character, or at least show Obi-Wan had other students.
How you would accomplish this, I don’t really know.
I think not having Anakin clearly being Luke’s father would be impossible to do unless you also edited the OT, since Obi-Wan refers to Anakin’s saber as his father’s lightsaber. To me, this would defeat the whole purpose of the edit, since you are trying to bend the prequels to conform to the Original Trilogy as we know it.
It would be a cool experiment to try to preserve the twist, but I just wonder if not showing Anakin’s fall would be worth it. It would be like Othello or Faust without their descents into tragedy.
I mean, the whole point of the prequels is to show Anakin’s fall.
I think the only way you could possibly make it work is if Anakin still fell to the dark side, but we assume he died on Mustafar. You would have to establish that Obi-Wan had other students, and that other Jedi may have possibly turned to the dark side. Maybe the briefing scene could be changed to Obi-Wan giving a lesson to his new students, with some new dialogue or a different hologram that helps imply it is a lesson rather than a war room briefing. Or maybe a new shot of some Jedi surrendering to Anakin in the temple raid.
So the audience watching chronologically would still know Obi is lying, but we just be surprised that the twist was different than we thought it was.
But, if you want to save the twist for the OT, you would still be recontextualizing ANH by having Obi still clearly be lying in the audience’s perspective.
Alternatively, you could, like you said, have the last time we see Anakin is in the temple, maybe the rumination scene. But we don’t see him leave the temple. And maybe you could trim ROTS so Anakin’s turn is being set up less. When the Jedi go to arrest Palpatine, maybe the person who saves him is left ambiguous.
So when the temple burns, we are left to assume that Anakin is still there and may have also died. We never go to Mustafar, and like you suggested, have the climax be between Yoda and Sidious. Padmé has the babies and goes into hiding like in Hal’s because she has Jedi children. You still need to imply that Obi-Wan had more students though.
But I feel like even if one were to watch the films this way, after the twist is revealed, the audience would want to know how Anakin became Darth Vader. When did he become more machine than man? When did Obi-Wan find out Anakin was Vader?
By not showing how it happened, you sort of end up in the same place where you want to see how it happened.
Maybe Obi-Wan could find Anakin’s lightsaber in the Jedi temple. Create an insert of him picking it up. Maybe Obi-Wan could still watch the security hologram, but we don’t see what he sees.
Regardless of this change, you still have the error of the ROTJ line “Obi-Wan once thought as you do.” Unless you interpret it as Obi-Wan once thought Anakin was good before he turned evil, but it seems to imply Obi-Wan still thought there was a chance to save Anakin after he turned.
And if you wanted to save all of the reveals, like what Yoda looks like. You’re left with barely any climax for ROTS.
So you either have:
No Yoda in Prequels, Anakin turns but not implied to be Vader
or
Yoda in the Prequels, Anakin’s turn to the dark side is not shown and fate left ambiguous.
You would be left with very little if you had neither Yoda vs Sidious or Anakin vs Obi-Wan as the final battle. Even if you added as many deleted scenes as possible, you would be left with a pretty short movie. I think you would have to add a lot of extra material, somehow.
The only way I see that you can make it work is if you make edits of both the prequels and the original trilogy to make it work. It would be cool to see, but I also think it sort of defeats the original purpose of modifying the PT to match the continuity and the reveals of the OT as-is.
Despite my doubts, if someone could figure it out then I still would be interested in seeing it, but there is a lot you have to figure out and I don’t know if you would have much left by the end of it.
Thanks for the reply Dre! I am kind of curious where you think TFA, and TLJ by extension, would have went if under Lucas’ reigns or closer to his original treatments. I’m not asking just so I can retort with why that wouldn’t have worked or whatever. Just curious.
I know some info exists on his treatments based off of sources like the Art of books for the new movies. And that one interview where vaguely mentions exploring the “microscopic world” in his treatments. Not sure what that meant though.