RogueLeader

NO SPOILERS

Hey Everyone,

I believe a new batch of leaks regarding Episode IX has dropped, and people have been compiling the known leaks into a pretty extensive plot layout for the film. I haven’t read through it all, but from what I’ve read it still seems a bit confusing and disjointed because a lot of things are still missing, but if the sources are legitimate then you will know a lot about the movie before going into it.

If you have been keeping up with this thread to keep up with Episode IX news and discussion, but you still want to be a little surprised by the movie, I think this is a good stopping point.

So I would recommend staying off this thread and avoiding forums like all of the Star Wars subreddits (in particular r/StarWarsLeaks). During the ‘dry seasons’ Leaks was a good place to keep up with Star Wars news, but now I feel like the POTENTIAL spoilers are getting pretty substantial. I would try to block certain Star Wars YouTube channels as well if that is even possible.

I think this is what I’m going to do from this point forward. This fall is gonna fly by really fast, and it’ll be a flash in between Mandalorian airing the IX releasing.

So, if you’re like me, now might be a good time to commit to avoiding potential spoilers, otherwise you’re gonna start seeing things you wish you hadn’t.

I’m sure Nev will eventually chime in but I don’t think there really is a way to achieve this exactly, especially because of the scar issue like you mentioned. I think you could either just make Rey scarring Kylo happen quickly after she connects with the Force. Or, just find ways to emphasize Kylo’s injuries more, to clearly express that Kylo isn’t at the top of his game when he fights Rey.

Nev I think is also approaching it like Rey is tapping into the dark side to get the edge over him, so she beats him, but it is sort of ominous because we know that she is on a precarious edge. She has yet to learn how to differentiate the light and the dark, which would raise the stakes for her to learn from Luke.

Agreed. The real answer was just like you said, Lucas’ relaxed views on continuity and if it is really that important. There’s definitely ways to explain it though I think. I did use to feel that it was one of the weaker elements of the OT, as far as it having very little set up and feeling tacked on. But over time I’ve realized the very PG incest vibes give Luke another similarity to King Arthur, who in some iterations of his legend had unknowingly slept with his own sister, resulting in Mordred, who would go on to betray Arthur and destroy Camelot.

Not really prequel related I suppose. Though you could argue the prequels parallel Arthurian legend as far as the Republic being like Ancient Rome which feel in the time before Arthur, and his father Uther Pendragon being analogous to Anakin in some ways. So the prequels continue that tradition of mirroring real myths that the OT started.

I don’t think these parallels were intentional but they do make me enjoy them more. Repeating ideas, even if it was unknowingly.

These look amazing! You’re incredibly talented, Ridley!

I have a friend who hasn’t seen any of the Star Wars movies that wants to catch up before Episode IX comes out, and I might show them these versions, Hal. I feel like they’re a great in between as far as not being too different from the OOT but updating some effects so it doesn’t feel very outdated in comparison to the other films.

Regarding Palpatine looking ‘older’ in AOTC, but then looking a little younger in ROTS, even though it is just because Lucas changed his mind I do have a head-canon explanation for it.

As some theories and fan edits have gone with, I like to think that Sidious’ deformed look is his true face, and ‘Palpatine’ is just a mask he wears, an illusion that takes great concentration with the dark side.

Once Palpatine became Chancellor, I believe the dark side began corrupting him more quickly. But the Sith can feed off of the fear, anger and suffering in the galaxy, giving them more power. Hiding his identity in plain sight from the Jedi while he sat in the highest seat in the Republic took immense focus, and this was even more difficult to do in an era of relative peace. But, when Separatist seceded from the Republic and the Clone Wars broke out, Sidious was able to feed off the suffering in the galaxy it created. This is why Palpatine seems almost healthier in ROTS, after three years of galactic warfare, compared to how he looked in AOTC, before the war began.

I don’t know how long Sidious’ true face was his ‘deformed’ face, but regardless of that, he disposed of his Palpatine mask to manipulate Anakin and the Senate to think he was scarred by the Jedi, and after the Jedi purge he no longer needed to expend the energy to keep up that charade.

This ‘feeding off fear’ idea sort of lends itself to how the Empire operated as well. Even though certain elements of the Empire seemed impractical or inefficient, I think the Emperor saw the Empire as a factory of fear. A machine that created suffering in the galaxy that Sidious could feed on in order to grow in power.

It’s definitely a hand-wavy excuse, and I think I would’ve preferred if he had just became more deformed over the films, but this explanation works for me too.

Have you posted about this before? I’m curious how you were able to compare them and figure that out!

Well if it is the first Death Star maybe it crashed onto Yavin II, III or something like that!

If the Resistance Base is back on Yavin IV, I wonder what that would mean if the Death Star was in the same system? If that is the first Death Star, then I would think the Resistance Base is somewhere else and not on Yavin IV.

SilverWook said:

The old, they’ll never think to look for us where we had a secret base forty years ago ploy. 😉

Leia took a page out of Obi-Wan’s book, The Art of Hiding in Obvious Places.

Yeah, I think that is Yavin IV (I recall reading that they considered making the Resistance Base in TFA Yavin, which is why the base interior looks very similar to Yavin, with roots growing over the stone structures), and I think the crashed Death Star is the DSII, and the environment is just more variable on Endor than it is on your typical Star Wars planet.

Honestly, what they’re doing with Leia is one of the things I’m most excited about. Just seeing how they pull it off, regardless of how much she is in there, is pretty incredible. Because it isn’t a situation where the actor died during production, like it was in the cases of Bruce or Brandon Lee, Oliver Reed, and Paul Walker. This time they are actually using unused footage from a different movie to have a deceased actress play a roll in a film she never shot anything for. I hope the home release has a in-depth look at how they accomplished it.

That’s a good idea. The giant hologram room is SURROUNDED by conference chairs and tables, so they already had a set for that kind of scene.

Interesting perspectives!

As a third perspective, I’ve gone from loving the prequels as a kid for the spectacle, to disliking them for their flaws as a teenager, to coming back appreciate their strengths and accepting their weaknesses, acknowledging that they can have both good and bad, but I can still enjoy them as a part of this larger story.

Lol, I feel like the making of the prequels could be nicknamed “Summer at the Ranch”. Maybe the making of the ST could be “REAL sets, PRACTICAL effects”, or maybe “Everything’s Changed but Nothing’s Changed”.

I do agree that it would’ve been cool to have seen a grungier neo-Empire, or Imperial Remnant.

But to be fair, I do think we will be seeing more Outer Rim adventures, and even Imperial Remnant stuff, in stories outside the Saga. The Mandalorian being the best example.

I think it easy to not realize that there’s 30 years worth of stories in between ROTJ and TFA. I totally get how seeing the Empire lose in ROTJ but then the First Order fully-equipped and upgraded raises questions.

I think it would be great if a lot of stories during this 30-year time period showed these grungier Remnants and the New Republic able to combat them with small, but efficient fleets and squadrons. Basically, seeing a lot of stuff that fans expected to see after ROTJ. It would help explain why the New Republic didn’t see the First Order as a threat, assuming it was just another fringe group that has basically devolved into a gang. You can get a hint of this when Poe is in the First Order hangar for the first time, he looks totally stunned.

I think that is partly why a lot of people are frustrated with the new films. They want to see that kind of stuff, but the ST isn’t doing that. Once we get more stories like that, and see the Imperial Remnant and the New Republic at a different time period, we’ll get that itch scratched, plus we’ll see the actual evolution of how the Empire went from the Galactic Empire, to scattered Imperial remnants, to a reunified First Order.

It makes me think of the relationship between the prequels and the Clone Wars. The Clone Wars added a lot of context to that era that made people enjoy the movies more. I think the same thing will inevitably happen with the ST. We’ll get a new series or two that bridges that gap between ROTJ and TFA that provides context that a lot of fans were curious about.

Sometimes I compare it to WWI and WWII. Imagine we were telling the story of those wars, and in the first book is set in the 1910s, and we see America, Britain and others defeat Germany by the end of the War to End All Wars. The second book jumps all the way forward to the 1940s, right at the beginning of WWII. Wait, didn’t they defeat Germany at the end of the first book? How are they at war again and have somehow rebuilt their army? How did the Allies let this happen?
You can see how that might be confusing when you skip ahead 20-30 years. I do agree that they could have provided more context in the films, but the existence of the similarities doesn’t break it for me. I think that really is the weakness, because I think with the right context your audience would say, “Yeah, that makes sense.”

Again, not trying to say that this is the ONLY way they could have told this story. For me it boils down to that this is the story we got, and although I do enjoy most of it, I try to understand/rationalize parts that I don’t like as much. It’s the same thing I did with the prequels.

As far as metacommentary, I think of things like how the writers wondered how they could top a villain like Darth Vader, so they made a villain that is actually afraid that he can’t live up to Darth Vader.
Maybe as time goes on I’ll post about similarities between the OT and ST that I think strengthens the saga as a whole.

To me it looks like she is on the same planet where the new Resistance Base is, training alone with the training probe on the Falcon (maybe a new one). Either she is alone, or maybe we’ll see Force ghost Luke at the end of this scene giving her the “we’ve passed on all we know” speech.

I guess to me it feels like both a continuation of the story as well as a metacommentary on Star Wars itself. But I also saw story parallels and metacommentary in the prequels, so maybe that’s why it doesn’t bother me as much. I totally get what you’re saying though.

Was trying to think of ways to add more familiar aliens to the Sequel Trilogy without having to shoot any new footage. Here are some ideas:

For Maz’s Castle, I really only have one strong idea so far.

So, there is a shot from the cantina scene in ANH where Greedo faces the camera when the bartender tells Luke he can’t bring in any droids. In that shot, Greedo is on the left side of the screen, and he slowly turns back to the table he is at for the duration of the shot.

In TFA, when Maz shouts “Han Solo!”, there are three quick reaction shots of bar patrons turning to face him. In the third shot, at 0:57:45, three patrons quickly turn to camera. You could potentially rotoscope Greedo out of the original scene and put him into this one, covering up one of the two patrons sitting on the sides. Then, you could reverse the shot and speed it up slightly to have him turn to face camera like the rest. Also, you would need to recolor his costume and skin so he would be clearly seen as a different Rodian. You also might need to rescale the shot some in order to match shot to the scale of Greedo.

I think Canto Bight would be another good place to add some familiar aliens, but the ‘how’ is a little more difficult. I think one of the simplest ideas might be to take a shot of Jabba from ROTJ and add a Hutt somewhere amongst the casino-goers, which seems like an appropriate species to appear.

This clip of Canto Bight with additional deleted shots has a few shots that might work for this idea. Around the 1:36 mark, there are three brief CU shots of casino patrons that I think Jabba could be added to. I think one shot of Jabba that is usable would be when he stuffs a frog in his mouth. There might be a better option somewhere else though. You could rotoscope him out of that shot and recolor/add dinstinct features to him to help make him look like a different Hutt. You would also need to mask out parts of the foreground patrons that Jabba can’t cover up, and also maybe flip the shot in order to have Jabba facing the opposite side that he does in ROTJ.

It would be great if we could get some actual alien masks/gloves and film some quick shots in front of a green screen, but until then I think these are some potentially doable ideas that could add just a pinch of familiarity. Luckily, both of these shots are very brief, from less to a second to four or five seconds at most.

THAT trailer definitely brings back some memories! I remember thinking, “Chewbacca is there when Anakin becomes Darth Vader?!?”

I actually like Anakin turning to the dark side because of his attachment. Ultimately, it is his attachment to Luke that brings Anakin back to the light, not any kind of moral epiphany. To me, this parallel highlights how love can have this “double nature of being both condemning and redeeming”. It also demonstrates how the Jedi’s view on love was flawed. It can be a weakness, but it also can be a strength. It can have two sides, just like the Force. And this dualism is something Luke discovers as he grows into a wiser Jedi.

I also figured I would link the Star Wars Ring Theory since it seems relevant to the thread. I’m not necessarily agreeing with the writer’s conclusion, but there are clearly many parallels between the trilogies that he highlights throughout his blog posts. Might be interesting to touch on them in this thread.

It seemed like most people figured it was a vision, and there are still people speculating otherwise despite this news, and will continue to. That is interesting they decided to edit it, I don’t think it was really necessary to do so. Thanks for sharing.

Yeah, I definitely think Starkiller Base is the weakest aspect of TFA. I think most people who don’t like TFA for its similarities with A New Hope would have forgiven it if it weren’t for Starkiller. Blowing up the peaceful world, trying to blow up the Rebel Base, trench run, blows up in the nick of time.

I do agree that I think the focus should have stayed on the map to Skywalker, which is pushed aside in the third act and then JJ remembered it “Oh yeah, R2 did have the other half the whole time!”

I think I would’ve liked it if TFA had been a quest to find the map all the way through, almost like an Indiana Jones movie. But, I think it boils down to why the creatives made that decision. They clearly worried about being too different from the OT after fans and critics trashed the prequels.

Despite that, I definitely think you can rationalize why it exists in-universe. Why the First Order felt like they needed to build another super weapon. The First Order wants to emulate the Empire and finish what it started the same way Kylo Ren wants to do the same with Vader.

I also think it is the same reason small dictatorships like North Korea are desperate for a nuclear arsenal. Imagine if the UN has agreed to dispose of all nuclear weapons, and then North Korea had built an arsenal in secret, and used it on a major world capital. Their remaining arsenal could be used as a threat to make any country bow to their commands, like the world was being held at gunpoint.

But this is a reason why I think fan edits can be a great form of constructive criticism. The TFA: Restructured edit helps show how the Starkiller’s similarities to the Death Star can be used to surprise the audience, by pushing the destruction of the Republic to the climax and having the Resistance fail. So using the audience’s memory of ANH and to surprise them. Because the Resistance blowing up Starkiller before it destroys their target is totally expected. I think Nev is pushing this idea even further with his Starlight Project. As soon as we see the trench we KNOW what is going to happen, but what if Poe destroyed the inside of the oscillator, but it didn’t blow up?

It would build onto this idea that the Resistance thinks it can be just like the Rebellion, fighting for a just cause, but things don’t turn out like they thought it would.

I feel TLJ parallels the throne room scene with similar intentions. I know we’re hungry for new stuff, but I think these work within the context that the ST is the third part of a bigger story, not a brand new one. I think it is helpful to ask questions like, “Is this scene similar for the sake of similarity, or is it trying to make a point? What does it mean for the characters and their perspectives or expectations? How does it relate to the themes of the story?” I do think some things in the ST fall into the former, simple nostalgia. But I think it is unfair to say all the parallels were made simply for nostalgia’s sake.

I do think Starkiller, specifically the trench run sequence, is one of the weakest elements, but luckily Restructured is so hardwired in my brain I sometimes forget how it played out theatrically!

But I will say if the post-IX films just copy the OT, then hand me a pitchfork!

Something else I’ve also suggested is that instead of sneaking onto Starkiller to deactivate the shields, Han and Finn’s mission could have been to steal the other half of the map to Luke, since Kylo Ren mentions that they have the other piece. That would help keep the focus on the map and letting the battle be more of a backdrop.

I do agree that it was too similar for my tastes, but it definitely doesn’t ruin the movie for me, and I can rationalize why they went with it, for in-universe or thematic reasons. I’m like, “Yeah, that could’ve been handled better.” But it doesn’t hurt the experience for me.

I’m not trying to tell anyone they’re wrong for thinking otherwise. I totally get why you feel that way. Totally do. I might have issues with the films, but I still want to enjoy all of them, so I’m just sharing how I see them in a way that allows me to enjoy them. Feel free to share if you disagree with me, I know I’m not really good at easing anyone’s gripes with the movies!

Maybe I could try to write a book or blog for fans that have become disillusioned by the new films that want to find new perspectives to help them enjoy the ST more. I think I’d call it, Dr. Dre, or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Starkiller

With your permission, Dre. And obviously you’ll get royalties, Dre! 😂

3PO’s eyes didn’t turn red when his head got plugged into the battle droid originally, so I don’t think it is necessarily that. BUT, I like the idea of taking a weaker element/segment of a story, and recontextualizing it in order make it add benefit to the overall narrative. Again, I would be very surprised if JJ, of all people, was like, “That’s a great idea!”

Anyway, 3PO is overdue for some antics like he got in the other trilogies, so I’m just gonna try and enjoy whatever they decide to go with!

Honestly if they made 3PO’s Battle Droid antics from AOTC relevant to IX, I think it would be Lucasfilm’s way of taking ownership of all Star Wars, good and bad. Don’t like the worst of the saga? Well now you can’t ignore it! I know people would hate it but honestly I would admire their balls if that ends up being true.

But that probably won’t be the case so I wouldn’t worry about it.

Cool retro-version of the poster based off the Revenge of the Jedi teaser poster by Jason Cryer on Twitter. He has the title as Rise of Skywalker instead of THE Rise of Skywalker, but it is still good. I can see someone using this for their fan edit poster. Can one of you brilliant boys fix the title?

He also made a version of the poster that adds a “wrinkly old man” texture to Palpatine’s skin. Very subtle but I think there is a noticeable difference.

twitter link

Which clip is it? Unless it is a secret.

So even older than I thought! That’s plenty of time for the tech to be adopted by other bounty hunters.

From the article

“The character of Leia is really, in a way, the heart of this story. When we were talking about this story we realized we could not possibly tell the end of these nine films without Leia,” Abrams said. The actor passed away before filming began, but Abrams still had some unused footage of Fisher from The Force Awakens, “that we realized we could use in a new way so Carrie, as Leia, gets to be in the film.” But here’s where the story takes a turn. “I wasn’t supposed to be here,” Abrams said, as he wasn’t originally intended to direct the first and last installments in the sequel trilogy. But before her death, Fisher wrote a prescient dedication into her book The Princess Diarist. “She was almost sort of supernaturally witty and magical in a way,” Abrams said. On the pages she had written, “‘And special thanks to J.J. Abrams for putting up with me twice.’ Now, I had never worked with her before The Force Awakens and I wasn’t supposed to do this movie, so it was a classic Carrie thing to sort of write something like that and it could only mean one thing for me. And I could not be more excited to have you see her in her final performance.”

Rotten Tomatoes, Cinemablend, and John Campea are some of the few people who tweeted about seeing it at the panel, and yeah I believe starwars.com mentioned it.

https://www.starwars.com/news/d23-expo-2019-star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-highlights

I never took carbon freezing lifeforms was “crude” or even unusual in the Star Wars universe, but that the carbon freezing equipment specifically on Bespin was crude, and designed with a different purpose in mind.

And even if it was, maybe the ugnaught in the Mandalorian trailer (Kuiil?) was one of the ugnaughts that retrofitted the tech on Bespin, and he was the one that designed the carbon freezing tech on the Mandalorian’s ship, realizing the potential of the idea. It is like 6~ years after ESB so technology evolving isn’t a crazy idea.