PDB

Man that looks amazing

TheHutt said:

PDB said:

Hey Hutt,

    I just checked the PCM file I sent you earlier and the "You're from Baker?" line is there in meeting with the farmer and Lee Van Cleef. Am I looking in the right place or is that the wrong line?

 

My bad! The line is in fact in there. It was me who checked wrong (as a little piece before it was missing, namely when the farmer and Angel Eyes start eating). Sorry for the confusion.

 Ok that makes sense but now to figure out the missing howls...

captainsolo said:

Indeed the new 4K would have to be completely re-timed form scratch. However, even though it is less detailed the Mondo was from the Italian Leone family sponsored restoration, and merely making the adjustments for the International/US theatrical version would be possible, and then we could simply add the PCM LD mono track.

Anyone know where to find the Mondo anymore? I need a copy along with ordering the German BDs of the first two. According to bluray.com there is a new Italian BD but I don't know if it's the same master.

As for LD, the audio is the best for all three due to a lack of filtering that is found on all DVD/BD I have yet come across. On LD you have a far greater dynamic range compared to the lossy newer encodes. Especially noticeable in the score, sound effects and gunshots. These same transfers were re-utilized for DVD save for a few minor alterations. Fistful is slightly cleaner on the letterbox DVD but otherwise the same. FAFDM is slightly cut on the LD yet has some of the rare extensions like Indio's laugh. (essentially like MGM's battered 35mm print I saw, few extensions-no mention of Monco's name) The letterbox DVD is unedited but has none of the additional footage. GBU IIRC from one of our threads has a tiny shot missing on the first DVD, but otherwise the print for both letterboxed LDs and the DVD is the same. The original WS LD had Italian captions for the characters which matched that 35mm print recently on ebay. The remastered LD merely substituted the English captions and this carried over to the DVD.

EDIT: I will check my copies. I have the boxset and 1998 LD remaster, and R1 original DVD. IIRC the later LD's audio is a bit cleaner with less noise.

Seriously considering writing MGM/Fox/whoever I have to about their continued issues with the Leone films. Since hitting video they have been full of cuts, framing issues, audio problems, color fluctuations, damage, over-processing, improper "restoration", fake extended versions..does it end? The new DYS blu, if it ever gets released this year will probably look even worse than this, since MGM/Fox is content to mutilate it further with each release.

BTW, if and when that streets I have both WS LDs for correcting audio.

Thanks for the heads up on the deal.

What's the one scene that's missing from the DVD?

I agree that the LD, I have, seems to match that 35mm print. Both the Italian and the general color timing. The 35 was a 90's print so it all seems to match up also

Sadly, I doubt complaining will fix anything at this point. This was suppose to be the fix for the previous complaints and somehow still no mono and now strange colors. Like I said I could stand a little yellow but it is tending to orange and no one has explained why the skies are now greenish.

Beside the Italian BD, DYS was released in Spain:

http://www.amazon.es/Ag%C3%A1chate-Maldito-Blu-ray-James-Coburn/dp/B00I9TLS5A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1401916813&sr=8-1&keywords=sergio+leone

which may be the MGM master and is suppose to be released in Germany sometime coming up.

borisanddoris said:

I have the Blu-ray of the Mummy and Mummy Returns.  How did the HD-DVDs compare?

 It's  the usual treatment for Universal catalog titles. The Mummy HD DVD's master has edge enhancement and a little DNR. The Blu-ray is the same master with more DNR applied. Same applies to Mummy Returns. The HD DVD's picture is better but neither is as good as they should be.

Hey Hutt,

    I just checked the PCM file I sent you earlier and the "You're from Baker?" line is there in meeting with the farmer and Lee Van Cleef. Am I looking in the right place or is that the wrong line?

I think you are right about the missing howls. I just checked that out and I did try to sync this file once a year ago and I think I do recall one section of howls missing. 

TheHutt said:

The transfer is still the same, however, the region is locked to B on the new edition. You can get it here.

 Is it the same encode? VC-1?

TheHutt said:

Now that's really odd. I have started work with the help of the LD mono track from PDB, but this LD version seems to be even more cut than the R1 Theatrical DVD version!

For instance, there are missing pieces from the initial walk-up of the three bounty hunters trying to attack Tuco (first scene in film); also, in the encounter between Angel Eyes and the farmer (second scene in film) the line "You coming from Baker?" is missing.

The R1 DVD was intact in these scenes, strangely.

Strange it should be there. I just checked my loseless (video/audio) I made of my LD and it is there (You're from Baker?) But that is made with the analog audio and not the digital PCM. I gave you my PCM recording to which I was going to merge the two. Hutt you want me to send you a copy of the video/analog? I will pull out the LD and see if the PCM has the line.

At this point I should note that the widescreen LD I have is this:

http://www.lddb.com/laserdisc/02125/ML101739/Good-the-Bad-and-the-Ugly-The-(1966)) 

Whereas the DVD is the same master as this LD:

http://www.lddb.com/laserdisc/08335/ML106729/Good-the-Bad-and-the-Ugly-The-(1966)

which I don't have. That's important since what most people don't know is that the two laserdiscs are slightly different. The one I have has the titles for the characters in Italian and there are some tiny other differences.

And I just looked in on the thread on blu-ray.com which looks to be much the same discussion even with similar pics (the ebay 35mm) and similar people (from the OT). I guess at the end of the day, if you like the 4K, buy that copy. I don't and think it is a defective product both in video and audio just like the previous MGM blu-ray. Thank God we have great people here at the OT, like Andrea to make it right.

_,,,^..^,,,_ said:

@PDB: it was just an idea (the 50/50); but, if you like Mondo color grading best, what do you think of the 4K regraded versions I've done?

If someone would provide two small pieces of both (1min will suffice) I'd like to try it with real footage and not only screenshots.

 Oh I'm not against your 50/50 Andrea idea, please take no offense. I was just against the 4K's colors all together. I just don't understand why people defend it, when it doesn't even look like it could be right. I don't fault a modern film for looking like that but an almost 50 year old film? Especially, my favorite film. Again I just wish someone was able to get that 35mm LPP off of Ebay.

I love your 4K with Mondo's colors. The best of both worlds, the 4K detail (which seems to be more then the 2K Mondo) and the better (more correct) colors of the Mondo. 

Do you need footage of the Mondo or 4K?

TheHutt said:

_,,,^..^,,,_ said:

OK, first I'd like to know if I have well understood the situation...

The italian BD has the best color grading, according to many, while the new 4K version has a better definition, right?

Well, if the links I posted are to the right editions, there is a problem... the italian one is 167 minutes while the 4K is only 155 minutes... or is the latter length wrong?

 It is wrong. The duration of the 4K is 178:36 min; it contains several scenes more than the Italian version, most notably the Il Grotto sequence, as well as some other bits and pieces. See here: http://www.movie-censorship.com/report.php?ID=624419

I think for the video it's possible to color regrade the 4K version using the italian BD as reference, then use the latter for the (eventual) missing shots; for the audio, it is possible to use the laserdisc for almost all, then use the missing part from the 4K BD (if it has also the extended edition) or a previous extended edition DVD.

Basically, the 4K version contains most of the shots. The only two shots the Italian has which the 4K doesn't are in the torture scene (alternative footage of Tuco's eyes being squashed by Wallace) which is two shots only.

I already started work of my own, restoring original mono from the theatrical version (a buddy promised to grab the LD PCM track for me). As far as I know, there is only one extended scene in the Extended version using replaced sound effects. These can be sourced either from the untouched Italian track of the old BluRay, or from the German mono track (DTS-HDMA 1.0) of the new one.

Well, I must confess I'm not well informed about the various versions of this movie, but indeed I'm curious to know if I could be able to help.

As a matter of fact, I am well informed about them all. :)

Also, this laserdisc box set could be indeed useful for the other two movies!

Why? There are almost perfect German editions of the first two movies (FOD: based on Italian source; FAFDM: based on MGM source but fully uncut), containing English original mono in DTS-HDMA. All widescreeen MGM editions of FAFDM are cut.

 I can give you the Laserdisc's PCM Mono if you want Hutt. I ripped it a year ago.

I got to say I still prefer the Mondo coloring Andrea. The desert has a blasted out look in the first pic, I am actually seeing what's going on in the night scene and blue sky is blue.

I think defenders of this transfer fail to ask some pertinent questions. The greatest of which is: could that look of been achieved in the 60's? I have never seen a 60's era film look like that, much less a Techniscope one. Even with extensive use of filters and gels that color screams modern computer color correction. Meanwhile the Mondo looks similar to every other color Italian film of that era and every other Techniscope/Technicolor from that era. It looks like other spaghetti westerns from the 60's. I mean why have the Italian and the American transfers looked similar up until now? Did they constantly screw up? Did they never look at an IB Tech print before? This isn't like the late 70's and 80's were the negative and the print could have different color timing.

I have seen the International print on 35mm twice and the American extended cut on 35mm three times. In all of them, blue is actually sky blue. Just like this pic of the 35mm off ebay:

And its not just the yellow that is the problem. It is the over all "cross-processed" green look of the 4K. If they added a little yellow like Andrea's 50/50, I could believe that but the excessive jaundiced yellow and the lime green? The sad fact is that it has been re-graded to look cool and modern. Done to attract new viewers who unknowingly are use to a modern color palette.

A good example, I was watching that crappy movie, Non Stop, last night and the shade of blue/teal was similar to the 4K. It just didn't have the yellow:

Hell I could watch Transformers to get the same effect (even has the yellow):

But I rather watch a good film or a great one like TGTBATU.

I wish instead of an assistant to an assistant they just asked the original cinematographer, Toni Delli Colli. He would be a much better authority.

I found my laserdisc over the weekend. I can make a lossless copy if someone wants to work on it.

I believe I have the laserdisc in storage if someone wants to work on the project.

Chewtobacca said:

PDB said:  Re-creating the International cut in HD is going to be a hard piece of work for whoever takes it on. Its not just removing the Italian scenes, there are a ton of 1 or 2 second shots to remove also. And then putting in the tiny bits from the International cut. There is a lot to work to do.

It's not too bad actually.  In terms of frames, the Mondo seems to be closer to the 2014 BD than it was to the previous MGM one.  Most of the time, the Mondo has more frames, so deleting them syncs the two quite nicely.   I've almost finished a script that does that.  (It duplicates a few frames in places in which they would not be noticed, but these can be deleted easily enough if necessary.)  The script also recuts the beating scene, which is the only major difference between the Italian theatrical cut and the extended cut; obviously, the missing shots will have to be color-corrected and inserted from another source.

Apart from that, the English credits can be spliced in easily enough.  The shots that have Il Buono, Il Brutto and Il Cattivo can be replaced.

All of this is, of course, if people decide that the Mondo is the best source.  If the 2014 BD can be color-corected to people's satisfaction, then the work is even easier.  But I'm not yet convinced that it can be.

 Glad to hear it Chewtobacco! That's exciting. I assume you are also working with the laserdisc's mono soundtrack also? It appears the mono on the new 4K BD is a downmix (according to people on blu-ray.com)

kk650 said:

Memorex said:

I would love to see kk650 have a shot at removing the tint! :)

I'm just waiting for my UK amaray order to be dispached (it comes out on the 2nd of June).

While I wait for that i've been keeping myself busy working on a regraded Mad Max 2. It should be up on tehparadox later on today. :)

 Regraded MM2, that's great kk650! Can't wait to get a copy. Can I ask what software you use to do the regrading? 

Does anyone know if the current TGTBTU Italian disc is AVC? The first one was VC-1. I was curious if they did a reencode with the newly released disc that came out with FOD and OUATIW.

The thing is that all the VHS tapes, laserdiscs, DVDs, 35mm prints (I've seen a few), that 35mm print that was on ebay and the previous BD all looked very similar (blue is blue). This is the first time this movie has looked like this. It just screams revisionist history.

Re-creating the International cut in HD is going to be a hard piece of work for whoever takes it on. Its not just removing the Italian scenes, there are a ton of 1 or 2 second shots to remove also. And then putting in the tiny bits from the International cut. There is a lot to work to do. Shame that 35mm print is not on Ebay anymore. It would of been cool to see if poita could scan it.

NeonBible said:

PDB said:

jonlstevenson said:

Hi there, 

I've heard the remixed 5.1 of American Werewolf is significantly different to the original mono mix. Does anyone know where I can download this audio ? Or could someone point me in the right direction. 

I work in Audio post production and a lot of work goes into getting everything right for the director prior to release. Would like to get the way Landis wanted it to sound in 1981, not what a mastering house guy thinks works in 2014.

Yours, originally

Well the widescreen laserdisc has the original mono:

http://www.lddb.com/laserdisc/20408/LD-15101-WS/American-Werewolf-in-London-An-(1981)

Someone around might have it but there are no rips at the moment.

 Could have sworn I read a few weeks ago someone here ripped it.

Forgot all about that, It still needs to be synced

borisanddoris said:

That's probably the best way to describe it.  It just felt right.  If I can get it to sync, it'd allow me to do a better A/B comparison as well.

I thought I had it, but it keeps drifting.  I'm very much an amateur at this but I'll keep at it.  If anyone wants to take a stab, I can up the .AC3 file somewhere.

 I'm no expert but you can send me a copy I will try to take a look at it. Even though the soundtracks should match perfectly between the LD, DVD, Blu-ray, DCP, etc. I find they rarely do and there is always drift.

jonlstevenson said:

Hi there, 

I've heard the remixed 5.1 of American Werewolf is significantly different to the original mono mix. Does anyone know where I can download this audio ? Or could someone point me in the right direction. 

I work in Audio post production and a lot of work goes into getting everything right for the director prior to release. Would like to get the way Landis wanted it to sound in 1981, not what a mastering house guy thinks works in 2014.

Yours, originally

Well the widescreen laserdisc has the original mono:

http://www.lddb.com/laserdisc/20408/LD-15101-WS/American-Werewolf-in-London-An-(1981)

Someone around might have it but there are no rips at the moment.

borisanddoris said:

So I have always felt the DVD's 5.1 track sounded better than the Blu-ray.  I've ripped it but having a hard time syncing the track.  Anyone want to take a crack at it or point me to a simple guide for syncing a DVD AC3 track to Blu-ray.

I'm guessing it may have to do with NTSC nonsense...

What do you think is better about it, borisanddoris? Different dynamics?

Just want to chime in also. I watched both your GOUT and '97 version. I was amazed by the amount of picture information you were able to get out of the GOUT. This is probably the best upscaling job I have ever seen. Anyway, great job Team Blu, Thanks for all the hard work.

Criterion is usually very good about preserving the original colors but they fail sometimes when the original director is gets involved. Another good example is Michael Mann's Thief. Anyway here are some more comparisons:

http://www.caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleiche/multi_comparison.php?disc1=4091&disc2=4089&art=part&cap1=38021&cap2=37989&hd_multiID=1687&lossless=1&image=14#auswahl

It seems to have great detail but so much green...

Speaking of The Good The Bad and The Ugly, apparently there is a new restoration of A Fistful of Dollars premiering at Cannes:

http://www.slashfilm.com/fistful-of-dollars-outtakes/

Check out the outakes.

Seriously what is up with the yellow/green? That is bizarre. I have never seen a copy of this film look like that. This is my favorite film and MGM just can't seem to get it right. At least the detail is improved enough on the new BD that hopefully someone can finally recreate the international/American cut. 

captainsolo said:

A 35mm GBU print has popped up on ebay, dated 1997 with the Italian captions like the 1993 LD. It would be the international and has proper color intact.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Clint-Eastwoods-THE-GOOD-THE-BAD-AND-THE-UGLY-on-35mm-film-/251486242442?pt=US_Film&hash=item3a8dbf868a

 I've been watching that like a hawk but its way too expensive for me. It would be great if we could get poita to do a transfer. Since it has the Italian for The Good/The Bad/The Ugly character intros it is the same print/transfer as the last letterbox laserdisc, opposed to the DVD which had English titles.

Jetrell Fo said:

So folks know, this is not dead. 

We have audio finished already and I'm getting to finishing another round of audio to send to DoomBot for edit/sync.  My favorite so far has been Event Horizon.  The Bluray sounded awesome with the cinema DTS audio attached to it.

I also had a chance to synch The Mummy HD-DVD to DTS cinema audio and it was another fun experience.

I know kk650 has used our Matrix audio for his stuff and TeamBlu just put out their ANH SE Bluray with the cinema DTS audio so there is stuff happening.

Cheers!!!!

 Glad to hear you guys are still syncing these soundtracks. Can't wait to see/hear the results.

Well if we are talking about IMAX versions. Cinemax is now running Oblivion in its IMAX form. With the flashbacks in 2.35/2.39 and the rest in 16:9.