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OutboundFlight

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4-Feb-2018
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1-Apr-2020
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Post
#1332279
Topic
Star Wars: <strong>The Rise Of Skywalker</strong> Redux Ideas thread - * <strong>SPOILERS</strong> *
Time

Chase Adams said:

RogueLeader said:
Pre-transformation Palpatine looks more like Ian McDiarmid with white contacts, to me, instead of looking like the Emperor. I don’t know if that makes sense, but there seems to be very little make-up on him that we associate with the Emperor, beyond making him extremely pale.

I believe the intention was to make it like Palpatine’s spirit was possessing a fresh, un-deformed, new corpse body. Once he is ‘restored’ he resembles the true Sith Palpatine appearance.

https://pasteboard.co/J1D7Vli.png

I got the opposite impression from the deformed fingers.

Post
#1332108
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

act on instinct said:

OutboundFlight said:

I don’t understand how every time the concept art is better than what we got.

This is just always going to be true, look at available concept art for any of your favorite movies and you’ll find content you wish was in the film, you can have anything on paper but in production things will be lost in translation.

That’s why I’m confused. It’s not like they don’t have good ideas. Why would they willingly abandon something so bold multiple times in favor of the same old same old?

Post
#1332071
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

DominicCobb said:

OutboundFlight said:

DominicCobb said:

OutboundFlight said:

And Coruscant to tie into the PT. Why did they keep copping out? TFA I somewhat understand, but by TROS they knew fans wanted to see something more original.

So you wished they had gone back to Coruscant because… you wanted something original?

I think most people wanted a break from the OT retread. Part of that originality includes acknowledging the PT’s existence, and if the First Order in charge of the galaxy, the only reason they wouldn’t be based on Coruscant is because Disney is afraid of breaking from the OT’s shadow.

It seems like two separate gripes that you have that you’re conflating.

It’s a bit different, but both derive from the common thread: the ST (or at least TFA and TROS) are obsessed with recreating the OT.

Post
#1332061
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

DominicCobb said:

OutboundFlight said:

And Coruscant to tie into the PT. Why did they keep copping out? TFA I somewhat understand, but by TROS they knew fans wanted to see something more original.

So you wished they had gone back to Coruscant because… you wanted something original?

I think most people wanted a break from the OT retread. Part of that originality includes acknowledging the PT’s existence, and if the First Order in charge of the galaxy, the only reason they wouldn’t be based on Coruscant is because Disney is afraid of breaking from the OT’s shadow.

Post
#1331347
Topic
What stories/intellectual properties (other than Star Wars) would you like to retell/rewrite?
Time

The timeline outside Harry Potter. I think Rowling should have given that period up to various authors to do their own thing under a single universe, like the old Star Wars EU. Imagine the possibilities, seeing Harry and Ron act as young adult aurors, Harry’s childern getting their own adventures in Hogwarts, maybe even playing up the 21st century tech into conflict with magic.

Instead, we got nothing, and after years of waiting, the one thing that “passed her approval” was a terrible, worse than the TROS in logic time-travel story.

Post
#1331239
Topic
What's your take on Emperor Palpatine being brought back for The Rise of Skywalker?
Time

It’s a fine line to cross. Because on one hand, TFA and TLJ have done a really bad job setting up Kylo as the villain. He’s a joke, and shows little fear. In a perfect world, this would not have been the case (at least for TLJ).

I think a better option would be to create a new villain for TROS. Maybe a “Dark Whill” or Force God that is responsible for the dark side, hence greater than both Palpatine and Snoke. I agree Palpatine was a bad idea.

Post
#1330931
Topic
Ranking the Star Wars films
Time

DominicCobb said:

joefavs said:

joefavs said:

Just watched TROS for the first time since December, and I enjoyed it a lot more this time! Adjusting my ranking:

  1. A New Hope
  2. The Empire Strikes Back
  3. The Last Jedi
  4. The Force Awakens
  5. Return of the Jedi
  6. Rogue One
  7. The Rise of Skywalker (was 9)
  8. Solo (was 7)
  9. The Phantom Menace (was 8)
  10. Attack of the Clones
  11. Revenge of the Sith

After watching TROS again in quarantine with my parents, I have decided this was a ridiculous ruling and I am reversing this decision. Back to the old order it goes!

Yeah, TROS isn’t better than Solo. But also, neither is RO.

Solo is criminally underrated.

Post
#1330541
Topic
Star Wars: <strong>The Rise Of Skywalker</strong> Redux Ideas thread - * <strong>SPOILERS</strong> *
Time

DominicCobb said:

Part of me likes the idea that it’s the midway point between blue and red, but also thematically there isn’t really anything in the movie to set that up. Also the fact that Mace has a purple saber obscures that idea.

I read a theory I really like that suggests color distinguishes alignment -
Red: Extremist dark side user (ex: Maul)
Orange: Dark side user with a significant light side pull
Yellow: True balance (ex: Rey)
Green: Roguish light side user (ex: Qui-Gon)
Blue: Traditional light side user (ex: Obi-Wan)
Purple: Extremist light side user (ex: Windu)

Now that I think about it, I probably found it here. Forget where it’s from lol.

Post
#1330405
Topic
<em>The Mandalorian</em> Discussion Thread - * <em><strong>SPOILERS</strong></em> *
Time

As a long time Clone Wars fan… I agree. It’s clear Filoni is way to attached to these characters. Just kill Ahsoka off already, it’s already asking much to have her survive into Rebels, but now she was the most highly qualified Jedi through the OT? So much for Luke.

Watch, they’re gonna retcon in Ahsoka to train Luke in between ESB and ROTJ and force a fake relationship a la Rey and Leia, thus nullifying any impact of Yoda.

Post
#1329640
Topic
Star Wars: <strong>The Rise Of Skywalker</strong> Redux Ideas thread - * <strong>SPOILERS</strong> *
Time

Darth Sadifous said:

DominicCobb said:

Speaking of the final scene, anyone working on force ghost Ben?

Honestly this is one of my most desired request. I’d like to see Ben phase in after Luke and Leia towards the end; similar to how Anakin joins Obi Wan and Yoda in RoTJ.

I was shocked in theaters this didn’t happen.

Post
#1329518
Topic
Conclude the Original Trilogy differently
Time

I’ll play.

The first part I want to address are the characters (plot will be a later post). Everyone should have a strong concluding arc. Ideally, it will be something that was already begun in ANH and ESB, but worst-case scenario, we can just start something new.

LUKE SKYWALKER
The Luke in this draft will be much more conflicted than that of ROTJ, instead of suddenly losing any of the challenges from ESB. He leans towards the dark side, and his belief in his father is more desperate than sudden divine-like optimism. He also appears visibly distraught over his cyborg hand, to give ESB more weight. But his biggest change is seeing the Jedi and his father from an all-new perspective. It is less will Luke redeem Vader, and more will Luke stay a Jedi?

LEIA ORGANA
Leia needs to have a character arc beyond love in this story. Here most of her story is about filling in the footsteps of her father. We see many allies to the Rebellion are afraid of involvement, and it is up to Leia to convince them to fight not through war but diplomacy. Ironically it is very similar to Poe’s arcs in TROS, only it actually pulls through.

CHEWBACCA
I would make Chewie the main third character for this movie: a far cry from his glorified extra status in the Sequels, but even in the OT he was very simple and now would be the time to give him depth. We’ll go to Kashyyk and find Chewie was isolated long ago for his “modern” ways of thinking (most Wookies are isolationist, and avoid blasters and the like). Chewie faces his deepest fears by confronting his past and teaching them to be accepting of differences by using his skills to save his tribe from the Empire.

LANDO CALRISSIAN
Lando feels guilty for betraying Han, despite everyone forgiving him. He eventually gets a pep talk from Leia, but it is only when Han shows indifference for the betrayal and is more pleased he is now with the rebellion that Lando is able to move forward. With Han’s absence in the 1st and 2nd Acts, Lando fills his shoes as the cocky gunslinger.

HAN SOLO
Han will only appear towards the end of the movie. His absence is used to create a feeling of emptiness within the trio, and when he returns it will be a triumphant moment. As such he doesn’t have much an arc.

DARTH VADER
I want to show both his fall and rise in this film. I will do this with the help of a Jedi Holocron Luke acquires early into the first act, which whenever he looks into is strangely sent to view Anakin’s past (more or less the same as the PT). In truth, Palpatine nitpicked through key memories to give Luke a negative perception of the Jedi. Vader’s redemption doesn’t change much. To build tension, Vader appears unwaveringly loyal to the Emperor, and it is only at the last second that he snaps.

MOFF PIETT
Recently promoted, Piett is now in command of the in-progress Death Stars. He’s different from ESB: he appears annoyed by the increasing loss of his men to Palpatine and Vader’s tantrums and is almost regretful of the present situation. The Sith even call him out on it: “I sense doubt in you, Piett”. When Leia arrives with a fleet of new recruits, Piett is inspired by their heroics and refuses the order to destroy Kashyyk - unfortunately, Palpatine’s Assassin Droids instantly execute him and his men, and go through with the plan.

Expect my plot post in a couple of days.

Post
#1329509
Topic
General Writing, Illustration, and Publishing Thread
Time

Anakin Starkiller said:

What’s it a draft of?

Funny: I don’t have a name for it. But it’s my first installment for a planned series, set in the far future within the Andromeda galaxy. Humans are one of many species and resemble a third world nation in political power. I was inspired by George RR Martin’s initial concept for Game of Thrones: take something you really enjoy (Fantasy, or in my case Soft Sci-Fi) and complicate it with depth and lore you could only get from an extended book series.

The story is about the Terran Republic’s Civil War, starting off with six-point of view characters (4 Republic, 2 Alliance) but it will probably expand in future books. The Senate votes in favor of a new bill banning all blue-collar jobs (this is in the far future, so robots are already doing this too much extent, and physical labor is technically more dangerous than anything by this point). But while it’s not going to harm the inner systems, the outer systems are pissed. Not only would it harm their economy, but the Electoral College is also clearly biased in letting a few populated worlds have all the say. Plus, Tygar Heavy Engineering owns most of the robots and they have a long history of corruption – are they pulling the strings to enhance their profits?

The key to understanding this is no one is the bad guy. Each faction is justified. There are a few sadistic characters here or there, but they are fighting for the same cause as one of the heroes. It’s all a matter of perspective.

The outer worlds threaten to succeed from the Republic as the Alliance of Free Planets. To solve the situation peacefully, the factions agree to last-minute negotiations aboard a Terran Star Dreadnought, in neutral space. And that’s where the first book starts off…

SilverWook said:

OutboundFlight said:

SilverWook said:

Have any of you guys ever used a professional proofreading service?

For my wip draft, I’ve just been using Grammarly. It does a good job (for a droid). I’ll proofread it myself during revisions.

Interesting. I wonder how it would handle a fantasy novel with a lot of made up names and words? I’m having eyesight troubles unfortunately, which will make proofreading more difficult.

It often calls a made-up word a typo, but it almost never auto corrects, so you just have a (more visible than normals word spell check) line you can hover over to fix or ignore. I like it, but worst case scenario you could always try increasing the font size and proofreading from there.

Post
#1328374
Topic
The Sequels - George's Original Trilogy
Time

ShamanWhill said:

OutboundFlight said:
Having reread a few sites discussing what little we know of Lucas’s ideas, I think it’s safe to say the Whills would serve as the main protagonists and antagonists. Based off the only Lucas canon – the OT, the PT, and TCW – the force is best understood as divided into the light and dark sides. The Jedi were not perfect but there is nothing from Lucas that suggests they need widespread reform.

I saw this concept art picture of Darth Talon, with a shadowy figure hovering behind her (https://miro.medium.com/max/2063/1*-ez8L1awc_mE6G4kac6Gwg.jpeg). The caption by the concept artist described the shadowy figure behind her as the puppeteer manipulating her. I think it would be interesting if we made this an Evil Whill. Maybe Darth Plagueis found a way to secretly preserve his own consciousness after death through the Midi-Chlorians as the Jedi had. He searched and found a Force Sensitive Twi-lek with attractive features and manipulated her to seduce the Jedi Killer and turn him against Luke.

We can drop the Plagueis idea if you’d like, but I think we’d still need to explain where this Evil Whill came from.

OutboundFlight said:
So I think we would learn that there is a Dark Whill somewhere that has brought evil into the galaxy, cheesy as it may be, and this being was what corrupted Sidious in the first place. Keeping in mind this would remain a Skywalker / Solo drama, I think Ben Solo may be the Dark Whill’s “next target” and start corrupting him to restart the Sith, and it will be up to Luke’s daughter to redeem her cousin and break the cycle.

Ben Solo would be Sam Solo. In George’s trilogy, he wasn’t Force sensitive. However, the Jedi Killer left a real impact on Luke, so I’m toying with the idea of him being Luke’s son.

I don’t know if Luke should have an heir though. You’d need to explain where his wife is, and if he changed that rule in the Jedi Order, and as you said there’s no evidence that George wanted the Jedi way to be changed. If Kira was Luke’s daughter, than we would have to go down the route that Luke doesn’t know and she was hidden as a child by her Mother who was in trouble and is now deceased.

This is a very good base plan. At this point, I don’t think there is much more we can do without creating our own story out of things we would like to see.

In that vein, I will make a few suggestions. Trying to keep in the Lucas Lore but all my ideas are really fanfiction at this point.

– Darth Talon would make for an interesting antagonist, but I don’t think she should live past Episode 8. Perhaps Jedi Killer kills her in an act similar to Snoke’s death in TLJ. If the Dark Whill / Plaguies remains the big bad it won’t be as crazy as the DT… it would be more Jedi Killer promoting himself to directly serving the Dark Whill.

– If we go the Sam Solo route, I’d prefer to make it so that Sam thinks he doesn’t have the force because he doesn’t have a natural affinity to it like Kira. But perhaps in the 9th episode, he realizes he had it all along, he just needed to believe he had it in the first place.

– Jedi Killer could work as Luke’s very first apprentice, sorta like Kyp Durron in the EU. Luke sees on him as living proof of his early failures, from before his academy was properly established.

– Why not make Kira’s mother a mystery? Luke never tells her who her mother is, and she spends a while wondering who it might be. It could another Jedi (inspired by Mara Jade) in hiding that returns by Episode 9.

Post
#1328261
Topic
The Sequels - George's Original Trilogy
Time

Let’s get back on track.

Having reread a few sites discussing what little we know of Lucas’s ideas, I think it’s safe to say the Whills would serve as the main protagonists and antagonists. Based off the only Lucas canon – the OT, the PT, and TCW – the force is best understood as divided into the light and dark sides. The Jedi were not perfect but there is nothing from Lucas that suggests they need widespread reform.

So I think we would learn that there is a Dark Whill somewhere that has brought evil into the galaxy, cheesy as it may be, and this being was what corrupted Sidious in the first place. Keeping in mind this would remain a Skywalker / Solo drama, I think Ben Solo may be the Dark Whill’s “next target” and start corrupting him to restart the Sith, and it will be up to Luke’s daughter to redeem her cousin and break the cycle.

I think this is a fairly basic plan that would fit well within the established lore of Lucas.

Post
#1328143
Topic
The Sequels - George's Original Trilogy
Time

Obligatory self advert for Death of the Author, where Sparky, myself, and a few others are brainstorming our own “canon”

https://discord.gg/Y7zAhj

I don’t think there’s anything wrong in wondering what Lucas would have done. He is the creator of SW so he holds a bit of sway. And we can invent our own canon, even if it doesn’t hold any credibility. And likewise, Disney has every right to do as they please now that they own the franchise. Overall, canon is a stupid idea and anyone can do as they please.

Post
#1327926
Topic
The Sequels - George's Original Trilogy
Time

yotsuya said:

OutboundFlight said:

All due respect: I’ve never understood this argument. I understand Taoist traditions, but I can’t comprehend a “good dark side user”. Love and passion aren’t equivalent to darkness, they just lead you to it if you aren’t careful.

Dare I say it, I don’t think the Jedi did anything wrong during the Clone Wars. A genius outsmarted them. Had Palpatine not been involved Anakin would have either peacefully left their order or broken off with Padme and firmly joined their cause. I just can’t see the Jedi losing the PT because they were “too good”.

And yet there is that bit that is in several of the films where the Jedi admit they are having problems with the force. How would that be the case if they were just outsmarted. There is an imbalance. I see the imbalance (and I did before the ST) as the good force users ignoring the dark side of the force. They are taught to ignore it because it is too tempting. They are never taught how to wrestle with it and stay on the light side and maintain balance. That is why Anakin fell so easily. He was never taught how to fight the temptation of the dark side. So in the PT and OT you have the force splintered into the far light and the far dark. Jedi are supposed to be closer to the center. They should know how to tap into the dark side as needed, but not let it tempt them or consume them. The Jedi need to be in balance themselves. They have banned attachments because it could lead to the dark side rather than teach the young Jedi how to be attached and not be tempted by the dark side.

If the old EU lore holds true, the Sith started out as fallen Jedi. So the order split. And to balance the force the order needs to be whole again. Since people are not easily changed, the easiest way to do that is to wipe everything out and start over. Well, Palpatine wiped out the Jedi and the Sith tradition of only two, a master and an apprentice, left the Sith side vulnerable to defeat. We see Luke learn that final balance in ROTJ as he taps into the dark side to defeat Vader and the lets it go. Vader kills Palpatine and himself in the process leaving only Luke… until someone resurrects Palpatine (everyone confirmed that he was indeed dead at the end of ROTJ). Luke is balanced, but late Republic Jedi taught. As issues arise, the balance is not maintained. The ST we got is about perfecting that balance. So Rey is NOT Jedi trained in the Old Republic traditions, but has the original Jedi text… from the age when they were balanced. Luke noted she was not afraid of the dark side. To her it is all just the force. Revelation of her origins tests that balance, but she regains it.

It isn’t a matter of which side of the force you use, it is all in how you use it and why. The user must be balanced. The user must maintain control. Anakin was consumed by the dark side. Palpatine isn’t just consumed, he is the embodiment of the dark side. He is chaos. The Late Republic Jedi have made their order all about keeping order and following rules and avoiding the dark side at any cost. They placed good an evil onto the natural order of things when the good and evil lies in how the force is used, not the force itself. So the destruction of Palaptine does bring about the balance to the force because he is chaos and evil - the embodiment of everything bad. The first time Luke has just found that balance and all is good for a time. The second time, Rey is that balance and has destroyed even the Sith loyalists leaving no one to bring it back. The Jedi order has been reset to where it was 1000 generations before.

But I still don’t understand. What does balance mean? Rey acts just like a regular Jedi only that she thinks she’s immune to the dark side in TLJ (but that’s far from the case in TROS). Luke, Obi-Wan, and Yoda were all calm and composed Jedi.

I don’t understand how you can use the dark side for good.

Post
#1327858
Topic
The Sequels - George's Original Trilogy
Time

All due respect: I’ve never understood this argument. I understand Taoist traditions, but I can’t comprehend a “good dark side user”. Love and passion aren’t equivalent to darkness, they just lead you to it if you aren’t careful.

Dare I say it, I don’t think the Jedi did anything wrong during the Clone Wars. A genius outsmarted them. Had Palpatine not been involved Anakin would have either peacefully left their order or broken off with Padme and firmly joined their cause. I just can’t see the Jedi losing the PT because they were “too good”.

Post
#1327824
Topic
The Sequels - George's Original Trilogy
Time

ShamanWhill said:

OutboundFlight said:

One thing I’d love to see is more emphasis on Anakin / Vader. I haven’t thought all this through but what if the main villains find a way to resurrect Darth Vader? But this is purely his “evil” form. In the process the force ripples and creates a reborn lightside Anakin (by Hayden Christensen) who acts like Gandalf the White. The two forces of the Chosen One literally collide, and in the end, his soul is at rest and the force balanced.

How would these personalities of Anakin manifest themselves? How would they appear to us?

I’m hesitant of this idea, because it ultimately ends up creating an “evil-twin” confrontation, like a cheap 80s TV show. I’d like to think Star Wars is above that.

We do know that there are no souls in Star Wars. Anakin, Obi-Wan, Yoda and Qui-Gon are Force Ghosts because Qui-Gon learned how to preserve their consciousness after death from a Shaman of the Whills. So the dualism would have to be in Anakin’s consciousness.

I mean, you could set it in Anakin’s consciousness, although it would be kinda weird. The problem is Star Wars is the story of Darth Vader, and you can’t just reset the entire world for an excuse to tell a new story, imo. If there was a prequel prequel series that gave more context beyond Anakin, I think it would work smoother, but with just three extra movies it is hard to suddenly lurch the series into a new direction.