Omni

Haarspalter said:

Omni said:

Hoop28 said:

imperialscum said:

Hoop28 said:

So obviously Lucas had a much bigger presence during the making of Jedi than he did Empire, he was practically a Co-Director, but did Marquand leave any mark of his own on the film? I haven’t seen his other work so I can’t say, and I don’t know if Lucas has attempted to erase any sort of legacy Marquand had like he did so many others on the OT.

I think Marquand had pretty much the same role in ROTJ as Kershner had in ESB. In both cases Lucas led the creative part (story, characters, screenplay, world-building, etc.), while Kershner and Marquand led the implementation and contributed in various ways to the creative part. If you look at it like that, then Lucas was “practically a co-director” in both cases.

Like it was pointed out, Marquand had some important contributions to the creative part, besides directing the implementation. Like Kershner, I think he was a valuable part of the trilogy.

Well from what I heard, Lucas was annoyed with alot of the changes and alterations that Kershner made while directing Empire, so for Jedi he was on set way more than he was during Empire and reshot quite a few scenes, apparently the whole reason Jedi was filmed in the United States was so Lucas could be on set daily.

Lucas wanted to be as far away from the set as possible.

Nope. Not according to the Empire of Dreams documentary…

LUCAS:

I hadn’t realized that ultimately it’s probably easier for me to do these things than to farm them out. Because [ROTJ] was even more complex than the last one, I really did have to end up being there every day on the set, and working very closely with Richard, and shooting second unit, and there was really more work than I thought it was going to be.

He had to be there. He didn’t want to have to be there. But given his limited options for a director, he picked one that would do exactly what he would without the necessity of him being on set. It clearly wasn’t the case, and he basically had to co-direct the movie…

Hoop28 said:

imperialscum said:

Hoop28 said:

So obviously Lucas had a much bigger presence during the making of Jedi than he did Empire, he was practically a Co-Director, but did Marquand leave any mark of his own on the film? I haven’t seen his other work so I can’t say, and I don’t know if Lucas has attempted to erase any sort of legacy Marquand had like he did so many others on the OT.

I think Marquand had pretty much the same role in ROTJ as Kershner had in ESB. In both cases Lucas led the creative part (story, characters, screenplay, world-building, etc.), while Kershner and Marquand led the implementation and contributed in various ways to the creative part. If you look at it like that, then Lucas was “practically a co-director” in both cases.

Like it was pointed out, Marquand had some important contributions to the creative part, besides directing the implementation. Like Kershner, I think he was a valuable part of the trilogy.

Well from what I heard, Lucas was annoyed with alot of the changes and alterations that Kershner made while directing Empire, so for Jedi he was on set way more than he was during Empire and reshot quite a few scenes, apparently the whole reason Jedi was filmed in the United States was so Lucas could be on set daily.

Lucas wanted to be as far away from the set as possible. He wanted to, like in ESB and Raiders, have someone trustworthy at the helm of the movie whereas he could stay with ILM and Lucasfilm, and, especially around that time, with Marcia and the construction of Skywalker Ranch.

Hello and welcome Malthus - what a great idea you have here. I’m not a fan of the ST and TLJ is imo the best of the bunch, so retaining it as the core of the story, with what you have in mind, seems to be the perfect way to approach the trilogy.

What do you have in mind for the opening crawl? How would you describe Rey, to introduce her in a satisfying way?

Poe had a cool arc in TLJ (and no arc at all in TFA, he barely had a personality beyond “hotshot pilot”), so if you could retain some of the lessons Leia teaches him… maybe not have her die? Luke’s moment with her would be retained, and if this is just an epilogue to the OT, with Han’s death I think that’d feel earned.

As for Finn… he has an arc in TFA and his arc in TLJ depends on it. Hm… not sure how you could go around that one.

Looking forward to updates, I hope I can contribute to this in any way possible. As a wise man once said, “we’ll watch your career with great interest!”

Anakin Starkiller said:

For Endor, you tried to bring out the greens, you really did, but the result is a nightmare. It’s giving me Harry Potter color correction PTSD.

What the fuck is wrong with you? The CC on Endor received an overwhelmingly good response, so perhaps instead of being a dumbass and just spewing shit you could try and be a nice guy and criticize it politely and constructively? I’ve seen you do this time and time again, but I’ve never seen you trying to help anyone or even do anything. All you do is shit on others. Learn some respect, idiot.

Sorry for cluttering the thread, IlFanEditore.

Spuffure said:

The Beatles got a LOT better during and after '65.

Absolutely not a hot take.

To answer the OP, I think ROTJ is correctly rated. The consensus is: it’s not as good as Star Wars or Empire, better than most of what came after, lowest lows of the trilogy and some of the highest highs. And I think that sounds about right.

NeverarGreat said:

I wonder how much that has to do with being a beneficiary of the Clone Wars tv show, where it was largely able to resuscitate the characters and provide a more compelling war narrative than the movies.

Anecdotally I know someone who just recently saw TCW and watching it made her like the PT less so than before. She’s not a hardcore fan, I introduced her to SW with the original 3 years ago and she slowly started liking the franchise more and more, but she’s definitely not a hardcore fan. She said the show feels like it takes place in a different universe from the movies, that Anakin is an entirely different character and that even if more likeable in the show, he seems even less torn or prone to falling to the dark side than his movie self. She said that Siege of Mandalore Anakin just doesn’t flow well into ROTS Anakin, and I find it hard to disagree with her.

After talking to her I looked it up and apparently it’s not an unocommon opinion either. But generally I think TCW did improve the popularity of the PT, yeah.

At least until a couple years ago most people here would tell you ROTS is either dead last or second to last in a “Best To Worst” list, but I think the tide’s shifting even here. ROTS is almost universally acclaimed everywhere else in the fanbase though, and, anecdotally, most peoople I know, be them fans or not, think ROTS is not only the best movie in the PT but the best movie in all the saga. It’s not too unusual an opinion anymore.

Still, as shown above, many here still strongly dislike it. I don’t feel too strongly about it, I just like it. But I think it’s worth pointing out that there’s many many people nowadays who really love it.

I think it’s also nice to point out that fandoms in general are at an all time high, actually. TROS was an answer to many fan complaints from the previous two movies, the Snyder Cut of Justice League is being released…

That’s always bugged me as well. Fantastic fix, Ady.

IlFanEditore said:

I’ll take a break for some days (my little dog died this morning).
Maybe noone cares (probably), but if I’ll not answer you know why.

I’m sorry for your loss, IlFanEditore.

Late reply, but it was a very entertaining watch, IlFanEditore. The rescores are mostly very well done, and the new music really fits the scenes. The new VFX and CC are also fantastic - highlights are the enhanced lightsabers and the colors on Endor. A very well done edit. Congratulations, I personally thought it was awesome 😄

Would anyone happen to have Ziggy’s Return of the Jedi fanedit?

Has anyone ever tried to remove or change Ben addressing Vader as ‘Darth’ in the original film?

That looks amazing! PM sent 😄

I would love a link as well.

SW can be seen as completely detached from the other 8. It was the only one made without the ideas of the saga in place, and it shows. It really does stand alone and I can never watch it without getting the feeling that the story could well have been over at the end of it.

Lucas can say what he wants, I don’t see his 6 part saga as about “The Tragedy of Darth Vader”, but I get that, original film aside, it is a way one could see it. I’m not at all that bummed that the ST “trumped” that understanding, though. Thematically, however, I think the ST kind of falls short. It has one movie that’s a nostalgic love letter to the OT but a bit hollow once you open it (TFA), one movie that tried giving it all meaning through beautiful character studies and journeys (TLJ) and ??? (TROS), so depending on my mood, the Star Wars saga is either one movie long, three movies long, six movies long or seven movies long, with TLJ serving as an epilogue.

But then again, I think the question of the thread was already answered with great mastery by NFBisms and DominicCobb a couple pages back.

There 100% was a love triangle in Star Wars and Empire, it’s not something you can argue against, it’s there. Since Leia had to be retconned into being the twin sister for Jedi, the love triangle had to be ditched, simple as that. But I don’t see how you can watch Star Wars and Empire and claim there isn’t a love triangle in play…

Well, here’s a top 10:

1. Trench Run - Star Wars
2. Master Skywalker/Sunset - The Last Jedi
3. Father vs. Son/A Jedi’s Fury/Vader’s Redemption/Anakin Unmasked/Funeral Pyre - Return of the Jedi
4. Binary Sunset - Star Wars
5. Birth and Rebirth/Darth Vader Awakens/The Future of the Twins/A New Hope - Revenge of the Sith
6. There Is No Try - The Empire Strikes Back
7. Birth of the Empire - Revenge of the Sith
8. Darth Vader vs. Rebels - Rogue One
9. Obi-Wan Confronts Padmé - Revenge of the Sith
10. First Transport Away/Rebels In Retreat - The Empire Strikes Back

Huh, I never really saw it that way. I think it’s more on the terrifying side, since we’re following the POV of 3PO and R2. That scene always scared me to death as a kid - you know, being torture and all. But I can see the sentiment expressed above.

Bumping this thread because I think I’ve finally arrived at my definitive ranking of these films:

1. Star Wars
2. The Empire Strikes Back
3. Return of the Jedi
4. Revenge of the Sith
5. Rogue One
6. The Last Jedi
7. Solo
8. Attack of the Clones
9. The Clone Wars
10. The Phantom Menace
11. The Force Awakens
12. The Rise of Skywalker

As you all can see… I’m not a fan of J. J. Abrams.

So you literally stole Adywan’s thread? OK. I’ll unsubscribe. And I don’t think I was hostile. If so, I’m sorry. I was just firm. You don’t have to be so defensive.

EvantheKidDS said:

Though, there is something that worries me, about ANH:R (HD)…

I keep re-watching ANH:R (SD) and, somehow I feel like some aspects about ANH:R (SD) will not remain intact. Like, ANH:R (HD) will not be what I remember of it, or how I would like to feel about it. I grew up watching this fan-edit, loving every feeling it gave me. It was like a fusion of A New Hope, with some aspects inspired from Revenge of the Sith. I feel as if ANH:R (HD) will not become this anymore… More like, it would become more like A New Hope mixed in entirely with Rouge One, with other aspects I would not particularly like. I just wished somethings were kept in the same way like the battleship-grey being seen in any Imperial Starship, or the Death Star itself.

What do you think about my thoughts? Does it seem reasonable?

My good friend, I keep receiving emails on this thread, as I have subscribed to it, but it’s always about your side project. Sure, it is an upscale on Revisited, so it is related to this project, but not everyone that wants updates on Ady’s versions wants updates on yours. So, could you please start your own thread about your upscale? I don’t think posting constant updates fits here, and I don’t want to keep getting them, personally.

NFBisms said:

It’s pretty simple I’d think: Star Wars as a series is about storytelling, and the act of passing stories down. It’s rooted in a fun genre pastiche, with the original film(s) as a classic monomyth set in a storied world. The prequels then set out to deconstruct the ideals inherent in those stories from a more sociopolitical angle (The Empire rooted in capitalism, the classical masculine ideals are problematic, etc.) then the sequels tr(ied) to make sense of it all from a postmodernist perpsective: why are these stories important to us? How do you apply their lessons to real and imperfect people?

On every level, from Luke’s quest to fulfill his father’s legacy, to George’s borrowing of references, to even its cultural impact thereafter - Star Wars is about legends and how we interpret them. How the Jedi interpet their code, how Luke chooses to see his father, how Rey or Kylo see history, and their futures.

imo

How could everyone overlook this perfect post?