Octorox

SpenceEdit said:

I’m trying out something for that musical transition in the duel.

(sidenote: There will likely be a V3 of this, but with less major changes. So I won’t release that until I’m 100% confident in what I have. I would like for V3 to be the last version.)

The problem with this is that the first part of the duel takes place away from the rocky area, then it cuts to Reva on Tattooine, then back to the duel where they are now in the rocky area. So removing the Reva scene kind of eliminates a smooth and sensible transition to the rocky area.

My goal so far has been to have the motion of the scene basically fool you into thinking they’ve naturally moved into the rocky area, but the audio transition has been incredibly difficult to get right, and it’s not been entirely successful.

So I tried something a bit different. I did end up cutting a bit more of the duel, but the major element missing is just Kenobi rolling around on the ground, so no great loss. I think extended the audio through until it goes silent on a major beat in the action, then kicks back in when Kenobi tries to knock the large rock onto Vader. I think this works a lot smoother than what I’ve had so far. Please take a look and let me know what you think!

https://drive.google.com/file/d/17k9rTuK3drz6yIY9jNjvG83f0GmJOW4u/view?usp=sharing

Watching on my phone with one airpod in but it looks and sounds pretty seamless to me.

Hal 9000 said:

Very good, and well done, Spence! That was about as good of a single-film presentation or the series as it is as would be possible to put together. It felt solid, and felt right. The thoughts below are meant to vet it even so, of course.

• I wonder if the opening shot could begin after the pan downward has finished, and looped or stretched to be longer. In other words, to open on a locked shot from the ground which holds a few seconds.
• I believe we meet Lola when we meet Ned-B, and are to assume she’d been in Leia’s pocket the whole time. It was a shame not to keep the dialogue about the Force feeling like turning on the light, so I wonder about how introducing Lola earlier, perhaps when Ben tells her “no noise from that” on city-world, or when Needles breaks her first.
• The series appeared to dance around using the Imperial March, but I feel like making an exception for Vader is right. However, the use of the March for the Inquisitor fortress right after we meet Freck does not involve Vader so I’d suggest removing it from this scene.
• Was a shame to skip the tension of the troopers riding along with Ben and Leia and the ad libbed conversation about her mother. However, it’s removed cleanly.
• I believe Leia asks Reva how Ben died, but that we had not been shown Reva telling her this to begin with.
• Ben gives Leia Lola back at the end, but I don’t think we see that she’d given her to him beforehand.
• The iris transition into end credits is in the wrong direction.

This pretty much mirrors my thoughts. Not having the dialogue about the Force feeling like turning on the light is a big one for me. I also miss the fact that Ben’s first time using the Force is to save Leia, but unfortunately I don’t see a way to bring that back without bringing back the rooftop chase.

I noticed that Tala seems taken aback and asks “what are they keeping down there?” in fortress Inquisitorius but we never see the Jedi tomb, so I’d cut out that reference.

I think the way we are introduced to Leia is a bit odd. To me, the fact that we meet young Leia at all in this series/movie is a big surprise and should be built up that way for the audience. That we just kind of go there and meet Leia in media res feels anticlimactic. I would like to see her introduction reinstated.

Overall, I think the ideal cut of this series would sit at around three hours for me, whether that’s in one part or two.

I’ve watched the first half and got interrupted, planning on watching the second half tomorrow. Overall I think you did a really good job condensing things down. Everything’s coherent, but there are times where I feel like the pacing is a little too breakneck, as if we’re just zooming through the plot without a moment to linger on anything. It’s something I’ve struggled with in my own edits as well. I’ll have more detailed thoughts after I finish the whole thing.

That makes a lot of sense RogueLeader. The only thing I’d be concerned about is, like you said, the transition between the training scene and the elevator.

And if you want to check out the de-aged shots I used (I think the creator partially used deepfaking), click on the ProRes link in the first post. Only Anakin is de-aged, but I honestly think Obi-Wan’s age difference is less noticeable than his fake beard in many shots in the movie (Especially at 1080p), so I’m not that worried about it.

I could use the help of a good audio person on the foley work for this scene. I don’t have a ton of experience with mixing new audio in 5.1, and my previous edits generally haven’t involved a lot of foley work.

Sirius said:

I don’t know if you have the resources to do this, but I think that it’ll be better to make Anakin’s voice higher, because his voice in AOTC and in OWK are notably different. Maybe not in all the shots, but in the beginning of the flashback for example, his voice is clearly deeper, and this can contrast with the rest of his scenes in AOTC.

That would honestly be trivially easy but I’m not sure I hear the difference you’re talking about.

Dat_SW_Guy said:

Personally, I feel that it’s like trying to cut in the SC38 Obi VS Vader fight to the original 1977 version. The cinematography is too different, the camera and lenses are too different, and the dead giveaway would be the global illumination due to the background literally an encapsulating volume of LED lights, while back in 2002 they used green screen and reasonable yet outdated compositing to try and the Coruscant background in AOTC.

These are all good points, but The Phantom Menace literally cuts HDCAM shots into a movie shot on 35mm and they do stand out a bit. Same with the CGI shots in the special editions. I don’t think matching the character of the rest of the footage was something GL ever overly concerned himself with. I feel like if we could get it 80% of the way there, most audiences would be able to buy it. A lot of it would come down to the color grade.

I also think SC38 reimagined just doesn’t work from a storytelling perspective, whereas I do feel like this scene enhances the story and adds context.

So, I really think this scene could slot in nicely in an AOTC edit, between the opening bombing and the scene in Palpatine’s office (or after the Senate deleted scene, if you use that). I think it gives a nice bit of extra context to Anakin’s frustrations with Obi-Wan, and it really shows off how skilled he is, which may make him seem like a bit less of a brat.

However there’s a lot that would need to be addressed about the scene to make it fit in stylistically with Attack of the Clones. These include:
-De-aging on Anakin to match his appearance in AOTC.
-A New Color Grade to match AOTC (preferably the HDTV version) Ideally, it would probably be better to work from 10-bit HDR but I used an 8-bit SDR version since the deaged clips I found were also SDR.
-Particularly shaky shots will need to be stabilized to better match George Lucas’s style of cinematography. (The battle on Geonosis actually has some handheld shots but they are used pretty sparingly)
-A brand new 5.1 sound mix with appropriate John Williams music and new foley.

To start, I’ve cut the scene together and used AI software to isolate the dialogue. This effectively removes the music but unfortunately also means the foley will need to be built from the ground up. I’ve also borrowed some de-aged shots from the YouTuber Darth Porg: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhPmdlUuwOI
There are others out there but I thought these looked pretty good.

Here is the clip in full 4K ProRes for those who’d like to tinker, it’s a large file. While AOTC was shot in 1080p, the 4K gives more latitude to crop and stabilize shots: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1joyQ5fIUGD57AtC8TI9Slx0Y0zasQdj-/view?usp=sharing

SpenceEdit said:

Octorox said:

This looks really similar to what I was hoping to do with the series (Although it sounds like I liked it more than you overall). Unfortunate that you had to cut the duel flashback though, because I think it informs Vader’s actions in Episodes 5 and 6. Without that illustration of Anakin’s impatience, especially around Kenobi, he just seems like he’s making stupid mistakes. The flashback gives it an emotional underpinning.

I think that’s conveyed enough in Kenobi’s “all he will see is me” dialogue with Reva. Either way, the flashback is cool in the series but stops a movie dead.

That makes sense. Regardless, yours is the edit I’m most looking forward to.

If you do end up making those alternate versions of your edits, that could be the solve. You can have a version that is solely part of the Hal9000 saga and another that is compatible with the “wider Star Wars continuity”

This looks really similar to what I was hoping to do with the series (Although it sounds like I liked it more than you overall). Unfortunate that you had to cut the duel flashback though, because I think it informs Vader’s actions in Episodes 5 and 6. Without that illustration of Anakin’s impatience, especially around Kenobi, he just seems like he’s making stupid mistakes. The flashback gives it an emotional underpinning.

GLogus said:

Anjohan said:
I hope the removal of the lines “I killed Anakin Skywalker” and “Then my friend is truly dead” will help clarify to the audience that Obi-Wan still sees his friend in there and that killing him is just not in his heart. Thank you for a great assesment of the problem.

You’re gutting the whole series of its emotional climax! Too many faneditors get so caught up in their desire to preserve canon and continuity that they will sacrifice important thematic elements of a story. This whole series is about Obi-wan being haunted by his sense of guilt over Anakin and then finally being released from that guilt. It was a powerful moment of catharsis truly unrivaled by the rest of the series. An editor’s first priority should be helping a good story come to the fore. I also think a good fanedit works with the original vision of the media, not against it. You are trying to fix something that ostensibly breaks the OT, but I assure you, you cannot make the OT one bit better or worse with this edit; you can only improve the material that you’re working with.

I agree with this, and honestly I don’t see him not finishing Vader off as an issue. Sure, he recognizes that Anakin is gone, but recognizing it is one thing, and striking the killing blow himself is another. He couldn’t do it on Mustafar, and I think he still couldn’t do it here.

GMatias said:

I believe he’s just commenting on the fact these movies, especially the OT, were geared towards entertaining & engaging children with straightforward and uncomplicated plot & thematic elements. They were built for kids specifically, but done with enough care & sophistication that adults can enjoy them too. Which isn’t necessarily the same thing as they’re built for everyone.

So the first poster saying or implying that these films are brought closer to their original intent or appeal by automatically reducing or jettisoning kid-friendly elements is setting themselves up for a sarcastic response.

Yeah, pretty much. I don’t mean to be snarky, and I understand that elements that pander to children without serving the story could easily be jettisoned (although I’d argue ROTJ doesn’t have a ton of those, compared to say TPM) but I’m sick of the idea that Star Wars movies need to be “serious movies for adults”. These were always movies meant to appeal to kids and families first and foremost.

Tantive3+1 said:

Besides Yub Nub, I believe most of the kid-friendly material should be removed or altered in some way.

While ESB:R and ANH:R SD & HD are mostly effects changes, this one should also be more of a fan edit.

God forbid Star Wars appeal to children.

I like most of these ideas, although your ideas for The Phantom Menace swing way too far back in the other direction for me. For ROTS, it’s worth pointing out that continuity with The Clone Wars pretty much requires the original “Plot to destroy the Jedi” scene at the war table. I got around this in my edit by including a heavily truncated version of the deleted scene that doesn’t repeat dialogue, and DominicCobb did something similar. I’d also want to see “I Am the Senate” make a return.

Artan42 said:
RotS comes before ESB so there is no spoiling going on.

You realize what website you’re on, right? No one on originaltrilogy.com is going to endorse the idea that the prequels come before the original trilogy in viewing order. Honestly they assume knowledge of the originals, hence why they don’t re-explain things like what the Force is, etc.

When Adywan was going to revisit the prequels, he was going to rework RotS in order to preserve the twist (which I’m not personally a fan of but it’s his preference), so I think you’re barking up the wrong tree.

Having him call Darth Vader “Anakin” at this point in the timeline would be a bad idea all around. I think it’s important that when he tells Luke that Darth Vader killed his father, he’s also lying to himself. In his mind, Vader is all hatred and has no Anakin left in him. If he still thinks of Vader as Anakin, it makes his lie to Luke seem more manipulative.

I’ve been thinking about this for my edit too. The best compromise I can think of is to reinstate the shot of Anakin igniting his saber on the younglings, as well as the other references, but remove the “Master Skywalker, what are we going to do?” line. It just feels like a little too much.

As for the youngling scene in Episode 2, I still don’t really think you need it.

I think the biggest problem with the “Rey sees Ochi’s ship for the first time” scene in the context of “Rey Nobody” is actually the score. John Williams scores the shot of Ochi’s ship with a sort of “dark mystery” cue that implies something more is going on. More straightforward action music during that moment would go a long way.

leftshoe18 said:
I felt like I was the only one on this site who actually was thoroughly enjoying this show. lol

Damn, am I going to have to watch another ROTS edit?

NeverarGreat said:

Just finished watching the first two episodes. My take: It’s fun. Leia is wonderful, and Obi-wan is great as always. Sure, I could complain about a few aspects of the Inquisitors such as their accessories, makeup, costuming, design, direction, choreography, backstory, acting, purpose, and existence, but they are meaningless noise obscuring the strong signal which is measured, thoughtful character interactions, and I’m here for it.

This is my take as well. Of course you can nitpick it to death but I think it nails the most important elements, and I’m excited to be along for the ride.

I made a 1080p upscale in Topaz from the PAL video source. It’s nothing fancy, and there are definitely some upscaling artifacts, but it’s available by PM if anyone wants to check it out.

I think just tightening that shot would help.

Hal, I noticed in your workprint that you didn’t cut Palpatine’s line “She’s not who you think she is” and Kylo’s response “Who is she?”. I think this exchange doesn’t really have much payoff in the Rey nobody version and I would cut the lines as in Spence’s edit.

I also really liked how DominicCobb’s workprint shows a quick flash of Rey on the Sith throne in the hangar scene after Kylo reveals her destiny. It gives the scene some extra punch which I think helps with the “reveal” being less significant. Would you consider adopting this in your Rey nobody version?

They’re more subtle than Anakin’s in ROTS but I think they look fine, personally. I agree that the ideal would be to give the other shots of Rey in the vision Sith eyes to match, as well as the vision of herself she sees later.