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Octorox

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Join date
15-Jun-2008
Last activity
28-Jun-2025
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2,020

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Post
#1494572
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

Hal 9000 said:

I was on a podcast!

User speakhard has been putting out a podcast called Trash Compactor, and asked me to talk with him a while back about fan edits. Here’s the link if you’d like to hear me talk even more about Ascendant and other associated things with him:

https://www.trashcompod.com/i-made-some-special-modifications-myself-fan-edits-with-hal-9000/

I’ve been listening to the show since, and plan to continue. It’s a series of conversations that were right in my wheelhouse, and likely many of yours also.

Great discussion! I just subscribed to the podcast.

Post
#1494483
Topic
Spence's Obi-Wan Kenobi (V4 Final Released)
Time

SpenceEdit said:
Anyway, that’s my roundabout way of saying I’m not putting the damn Palpatine scene back in.

Haha, I think you’ve made your thoughts on that one clear.

krausfadr said:

My thoughts weren’t directed at anyone specific

Sorry if I reacted like they were. You obviously have the right to your opinion. Guess I was just looking for an excuse to soapbox, lol.

Post
#1494419
Topic
Spence's Obi-Wan Kenobi (V4 Final Released)
Time

krausfadr said:
One thing I never needed was a CW version of Star Wars where baby Leia remarks to a bizarre acting Santa Claus Bail Organa that she’s not a real Organa. I wish I could unsee that.

Right, because god forbid Bail Organa show any fatherly affection or Leia struggle at all with being an adoptee. That might be too relatable for kids.

Look, everyone has different opinions but I thought young Leia was one of the best parts of this series. I’m totally willing to put aside my pre-existing knowledge and watch an edit as it’s own thing, but if it feels like some of the cuts rob the of warmth or character that’s needed for the story to hang together as well as it can, I’m gonna point it out. Spence’s goal with this edit was to trim the series (which was conceived as a movie originally) into something that feels brisk and watchable at under 2h30m. Nowhere did he say anything about cutting Leia scenes because they were “cringe”, which is what you’re implying.

I find that fan edits play like highlight reels and just cut out all the stuff the editor didn’t like regardless of narrative cohesion to be mostly boring and soulless. Sure, it makes sense to cut around things that break the audience’s suspension of disbelief or hurt the story being told, but it requires a careful hand that I find not all fan editors have. I respect Spence a lot as an editor and I give him feedback because I know he’s not one of those people.

Post
#1494414
Topic
Making the Obi-Wan & Anakin training session (From the Kenobi series) work in an AOTC edit.
Time

Honestly the Coruscant background doesn’t bother me that much. I think it looks a lot better than the backgrounds in some of the deleted scenes, especially the Mace and Obi-Wan deleted scene, which hasn’t stopped it from being used in all the most popular fan edits: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeK8HoReVo0

To me, the biggest issue with getting the footage to mesh well is actually the lighting. Due to the use of the volume it’s very natural, with daylight illuminating the background and the foreground mostly in relative shadow. This is in contrast to Attack of the Clones, in which scene like this would have been shot in front of a green screen. The actors and the foreground elements would have had to be evenly and brightly lit in order to clearly key out the background. George Lucas also tends to go for more traditional lighting and staging techniques in general.

Post
#1494310
Topic
Making the Obi-Wan & Anakin training session (From the Kenobi series) work in an AOTC edit.
Time

Just in case anything thought I had abandoned this idea, I haven’t. I took a stab at implementing RogueLeader’s suggestion, along with some preliminary color grading, and pitching up Anakin’s voice. A ton of work still needs to be done on the foley and score for the duel scene, but here is a new test video: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lQvxG9rR0zDwwI6yCnMCqBs8fUDLNOXh/view?usp=sharing

Post
#1494266
Topic
Spence's Obi-Wan Kenobi (V4 Final Released)
Time

szopman said:

Ahaha Just to clarify, I never minded the direction they went with Luke’s charakter in TLJ. Tho in “Kenobi” I Just thought it to be a bit ouflt of character that he needed to be convinced soo much to go after Leia. Plus, its a bit repetitive with TLJ, I guess I didnt want it to be Luke’s story 2.0, that’s all 😉

No worries, I wasn’t talking about you. Just speaking generally.

Post
#1494237
Topic
Spence's Obi-Wan Kenobi (V4 Final Released)
Time

SpenceEdit said:

Octorox said:

SpenceEdit said:
I personally like that Kenobi is so hesitant. He’s been packing meat for 10 years, not used the force, not been in a fight. He’s depressed and feels useless. It would absolutely take a lot to get him back in the game.

Agreed

Oddly, I find a lot of the Star Wars community doesn’t like seeing their heroes struggle. I wonder why that is? It’s a really interesting story for these powerful characters like Kenobi and Luk.

I’ve found that too. I think there’s kind of a kneejerk reaction to seeing our archetypal heroes brought low, because we look up to them, and their inflappability give us courage when our own lives aren’t going great. But I’d argue that the highs are nowhere near as impactful without the lows. Anything that makes our heroes more flawed and human is a good thing in my book.

With Luke I also feel like a big part of it is wanting character arcs to continue in a forward trajectory. Return of the Jedi very much ends with “And they lived happily ever after”, so seeing the Luke that rejected the dark side and turned Vader to the light fall prey to the very doubts and fears that he successfully resisted may seem counter to expectations. However, real life is full of regressions, relapses and setbacks. People contain multitudes, and personally I prefer my characters to be messy.

szopman said:
-The infamous chase scene on Alderaan. I know its a very repetitive feedback but it can really end once we See a suspicious guy in the Forest saying hello. Its well too obvious they re there to kidnap there.

I keep seeing the suggestion but I’m not sure how it could be convincingly pulled off. When the bag is pulled over her head she’s in a completely different location than where she’s initially found. I also find it hard to believe that Leia, as feisty as she is in this series, wouldn’t at least try to escape. Personally I agree that the original sequence feels a bit goofy but the version in Spence’s cut works just fine for me.

Post
#1494212
Topic
Spence's Obi-Wan Kenobi (V4 Final Released)
Time

SpenceEdit said:

I’m trying to make the escape from Jabim flow better, so I’ve got a little test clip here that I’d love some opinions on.

Basically, the scene needs to hit all the emotional/story beats while avoiding that “something’s missing” feeling due to all the Reva stuff I cut out. This sequence also takes way too long in the show. It works for the show as it’s the intro to an episode, but as a sort of tranistion/breaking point in the final part of a film, it can’t go on too long. So this gets us from leaving Jabim to Obi-Wan luring away Vader in 4 minutes.

There’s a section where I’ll need to rebuild the sound effects of the star destroyer firing at the ship. I did a little just as a placeholder, but if the idea seems to be working I’ll do much more detail on that.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bt7XB2vTq7ftZuDNFw-FH3crpFy2UuSZ/view?usp=sharing

I think this almost works but it does feel like something’s missing. Maybe add the line “I’m the one that Vader wants, if I go, he will follow” over the exterior shot? Just before the woman says “what happened to all of us staying together?”

Post
#1494168
Topic
Spence's Obi-Wan Kenobi (V4 Final Released)
Time

Thanks for your detailed response to my notes! If you’re having trouble with too much music bleed into the center channel, try https://www.lalal.ai/. It can very accurately isolates vocals, although that does mean that you need to rebuild sound effects.

It seems like you have a really strong intention behind your cuts and I respect how you’ve thought everything through, even if some of the choices you’ve made are a bit different from what I would do. Regarding the Leia stuff at the beginning, I get your impulse to try to get through it as quickly as possible, but I do think a lot of it is important to her character arc, and the series/movie is very much a two-hander between Kenobi and Leia. I don’t think you would lose the audience if you spent a little more time there. I always have to remind myself that we don’t meet our main character in the original Star Wars until 20 minutes into the movie.

Post
#1494149
Topic
Spence's Obi-Wan Kenobi (V4 Final Released)
Time

So I finally got a chance to sit down and watch V2. Overall I think it’s a big improvement, and as close to a perfect “movie length” rendition as you can get. That said, I do still have some quibbles. In particular, I think there are a few lines and scenes where either a setup or payoff is removed, so they don’t land as well as they should. I feel like 5-10 more minutes of breathing room, which would put the overall length in the ballpark of The Last Jedi, would really be the sweet spot.

-When Leia tells her father that “she’s not a real Organa”, we no longer have the context of it being something Leia was told by her cousin that she internalized. In this new context, it seems like it was Leia’s original thought, which imo doesn’t quite add up. I personally don’t mind Leia’s precocious reading of her cousin because I interpreted it as an example of her latent Force ability. I wonder if there’s any way you could reinstate some of that scene, at least enough to get the original context of the line back.

-when Reva stabs the Grand Inquisitor in the chest, she says “who’s in the gutter now?” Unfortunately the original line spoken to Reva by the Grand Inquisitor about “finding her in the gutter” has been cut, so this no longer makes much sense. It’s repeated by The Grand Inquisitor again at the end, and there it feels like it’s calling back to something that we no longer hear.

-In Fortress Inquisitorius, Tala says something to the effect of “what are they hiding down there” but we no longer have the payoff of the Jedi tomb scene. I would just trim this line out if possible.

-Tala’s death feels like it carries significantly less weight without her relaying her full history with the Empire in a heart to heart with Obi-Wan. Her character has a reduced presence overall, and while I think you were smart to cut a lot of the antics in the Fortress Inquisitorius, I feel like this scene should have stayed.

-When we see Leia dress up with her boots and holster at the end, it no longer mirrors her introductory scene. I was glad you reinstated her scene in the woods but I still missed this parallel, which showed the character’s growth in how she feels about her role as a representative of Alderaan.

-In this cut, the fact that Reva is behind Leia’s kidnapping is now revealed when Obi-Wan learns it. I think this is a smart change, but I wonder if something about the score or the editing could be tweaked to really underline the fact that this is a reveal to the audience.

-At around 1 hours and 37 minutes in, Roken mouths a line but it can’t be heard. I assume this is just an editing mistake.

Some other tidbits that probably aren’t essential but I missed nonetheless, because I felt they added texture to the world:

-Obi-Wan digs up his and Anakin’s lightsabers: I would like to see if this scene could be incorporated without intercutting it with Reva. It’s a nice call forward to the saber’s final resting place in Rise of Skywalker
-Obi-Wan sees a Clone Wars vet begging on the street (this is so short that I can’t imagine it would significantly impact the runtime to reinstate it)
-Haja’s whole “Fake Jedi” dog and pony show. I feel like his status as a huckster doesn’t quite land as clearly in this edit.
-For whatever reason, I felt the absence of Obi-Wan packing up his stuff in his cave at the end. I really liked the symbolic aspect of him getting a fresh start by moving to a new home.

There are others I can think of, but I feel like reinstating them would be antithetical to your goal of a typical Star Wars movie runtime. And so that my list of suggestions doesn’t consist entirely of additions, I can suggest one cut:

-In the scene where Reva explains that she put a tracker on Kenobi’s ship, I feel like you can cut after Vader says “it seems I have underestimated you”. Maybe end on a self-assured looking reaction shot of Reva if possible. The scene feels a little too drawn out right now, especially since you’ve cut most other bickering between the Inquisitors.

Also I felt like there were a couple other instances where familiar JW themes could have been used:
-I wanted to hear the leitmotif from Battle of the Heroes somewhere. I feel like there are a couple callbacks to that fateful duel where it could have been slotted in. Not the full choir, just a few notes.
-it would have been nice to hear Qui-Gon’s theme when he finally appears.
-As for OT themes, I think you could have used The Rebel Fanfare when the T-47s come to the rescue, and Luke’s theme when Obi-Wan finally gets to meet him. For all of these themes, I would use just a hint and not the most forceful statement. There are quite a few bits of score in the saga films where they are used more subtly.

Overall a really nice job!

Post
#1493795
Topic
Spence's Obi-Wan Kenobi (V4 Final Released)
Time

krausfadr said:

SpenceEdit said:

I am also upgrading my source for this to 2160p. I don’t know that I’ll be releasing a 4k version, as I’ve never done that before, but at minimum the final version of this will look significantly better than the current ones.

Cool! This always helps too if you ever need to zoom into a shot a little to crop something out. The shot in the final encode will still be 1080! I stopped releasing much in 4K because there isn’t much of a demand. But I still edit in 4K when possible.

So then will you have to convert from HDR to SDR? Or are you releasing in HDR?

The source I pointed Spence to was already SDR despite being 4K. I’m not sure if someone tonemapped it or there is a 4K SDR version on D+ for those who’s TVs don’t support HDR, but I can confirm it looks correct to my eyes.
Personally I don’t think fan editing in HDR is worth it at this point in time unless you’re planning on doing your own color grade and just want as much color data as possible to work with. Afaik the tools to do a proper HDR release just aren’t there yet at the consumer level.

Post
#1493780
Topic
Spence's Obi-Wan Kenobi (V4 Final Released)
Time

SpenceEdit said:

So, just so everyone is aware, there will be a Version 3 of this, and that will likely be the final version. The only way I would consider making a Version 4 is if some of the effects work being done on the Grand Inquisitor’s look some intrepid fans are doing on Reddit come to fruition. I would incorporate those.

I’m going to spend a bit longer between V2 and V3 just to make sure I have every piece of feedback and have left no stone unturned before releasing V3. So, if you’ve watched it and have things you’d like to share, please do so. Even if I don’t use the feedback, I appreciate every piece of it. Some times a new idea that I don’t want to lose will lead to other creativity I do want to use.

I am also upgrading my source for this to 2160p. I don’t know that I’ll be releasing a 4k version, as I’ve never done that before, but at minimum the final version of this will look significantly better than the current ones.

Thanks for all your hard work! I will try to watch V2 and provide feedback soon. And while a 4K version would be nice, I think a high bitrate 1080p version with the new source would also look quite good. If you don’t release a 4K, the 2160p source might give you more latitude to crop or reframe certain shots if you find a reason to do that.

Post
#1493542
Topic
Spence's Obi-Wan Kenobi (V4 Final Released)
Time

SpenceEdit said:

I’m trying out something for that musical transition in the duel.

(sidenote: There will likely be a V3 of this, but with less major changes. So I won’t release that until I’m 100% confident in what I have. I would like for V3 to be the last version.)

The problem with this is that the first part of the duel takes place away from the rocky area, then it cuts to Reva on Tattooine, then back to the duel where they are now in the rocky area. So removing the Reva scene kind of eliminates a smooth and sensible transition to the rocky area.

My goal so far has been to have the motion of the scene basically fool you into thinking they’ve naturally moved into the rocky area, but the audio transition has been incredibly difficult to get right, and it’s not been entirely successful.

So I tried something a bit different. I did end up cutting a bit more of the duel, but the major element missing is just Kenobi rolling around on the ground, so no great loss. I think extended the audio through until it goes silent on a major beat in the action, then kicks back in when Kenobi tries to knock the large rock onto Vader. I think this works a lot smoother than what I’ve had so far. Please take a look and let me know what you think!

https://drive.google.com/file/d/17k9rTuK3drz6yIY9jNjvG83f0GmJOW4u/view?usp=sharing

Watching on my phone with one airpod in but it looks and sounds pretty seamless to me.

Post
#1492692
Topic
Spence's Obi-Wan Kenobi (V4 Final Released)
Time

Hal 9000 said:

Very good, and well done, Spence! That was about as good of a single-film presentation or the series as it is as would be possible to put together. It felt solid, and felt right. The thoughts below are meant to vet it even so, of course.

  • I wonder if the opening shot could begin after the pan downward has finished, and looped or stretched to be longer. In other words, to open on a locked shot from the ground which holds a few seconds.
  • I believe we meet Lola when we meet Ned-B, and are to assume she’d been in Leia’s pocket the whole time. It was a shame not to keep the dialogue about the Force feeling like turning on the light, so I wonder about how introducing Lola earlier, perhaps when Ben tells her “no noise from that” on city-world, or when Needles breaks her first.
  • The series appeared to dance around using the Imperial March, but I feel like making an exception for Vader is right. However, the use of the March for the Inquisitor fortress right after we meet Freck does not involve Vader so I’d suggest removing it from this scene.
  • Was a shame to skip the tension of the troopers riding along with Ben and Leia and the ad libbed conversation about her mother. However, it’s removed cleanly.
  • I believe Leia asks Reva how Ben died, but that we had not been shown Reva telling her this to begin with.
  • Ben gives Leia Lola back at the end, but I don’t think we see that she’d given her to him beforehand.
  • The iris transition into end credits is in the wrong direction.

This pretty much mirrors my thoughts. Not having the dialogue about the Force feeling like turning on the light is a big one for me. I also miss the fact that Ben’s first time using the Force is to save Leia, but unfortunately I don’t see a way to bring that back without bringing back the rooftop chase.

I noticed that Tala seems taken aback and asks “what are they keeping down there?” in fortress Inquisitorius but we never see the Jedi tomb, so I’d cut out that reference.

I think the way we are introduced to Leia is a bit odd. To me, the fact that we meet young Leia at all in this series/movie is a big surprise and should be built up that way for the audience. That we just kind of go there and meet Leia in media res feels anticlimactic. I would like to see her introduction reinstated.

Overall, I think the ideal cut of this series would sit at around three hours for me, whether that’s in one part or two.

Post
#1491944
Topic
Spence's Obi-Wan Kenobi (V4 Final Released)
Time

I’ve watched the first half and got interrupted, planning on watching the second half tomorrow. Overall I think you did a really good job condensing things down. Everything’s coherent, but there are times where I feel like the pacing is a little too breakneck, as if we’re just zooming through the plot without a moment to linger on anything. It’s something I’ve struggled with in my own edits as well. I’ll have more detailed thoughts after I finish the whole thing.

Post
#1491834
Topic
Making the Obi-Wan & Anakin training session (From the Kenobi series) work in an AOTC edit.
Time

That makes a lot of sense RogueLeader. The only thing I’d be concerned about is, like you said, the transition between the training scene and the elevator.

And if you want to check out the de-aged shots I used (I think the creator partially used deepfaking), click on the ProRes link in the first post. Only Anakin is de-aged, but I honestly think Obi-Wan’s age difference is less noticeable than his fake beard in many shots in the movie (Especially at 1080p), so I’m not that worried about it.

I could use the help of a good audio person on the foley work for this scene. I don’t have a ton of experience with mixing new audio in 5.1, and my previous edits generally haven’t involved a lot of foley work.

Post
#1491811
Topic
Making the Obi-Wan & Anakin training session (From the Kenobi series) work in an AOTC edit.
Time

Sirius said:

I don’t know if you have the resources to do this, but I think that it’ll be better to make Anakin’s voice higher, because his voice in AOTC and in OWK are notably different. Maybe not in all the shots, but in the beginning of the flashback for example, his voice is clearly deeper, and this can contrast with the rest of his scenes in AOTC.

That would honestly be trivially easy but I’m not sure I hear the difference you’re talking about.

Post
#1491781
Topic
Making the Obi-Wan & Anakin training session (From the Kenobi series) work in an AOTC edit.
Time

Dat_SW_Guy said:

Personally, I feel that it’s like trying to cut in the SC38 Obi VS Vader fight to the original 1977 version. The cinematography is too different, the camera and lenses are too different, and the dead giveaway would be the global illumination due to the background literally an encapsulating volume of LED lights, while back in 2002 they used green screen and reasonable yet outdated compositing to try and the Coruscant background in AOTC.

These are all good points, but The Phantom Menace literally cuts HDCAM shots into a movie shot on 35mm and they do stand out a bit. Same with the CGI shots in the special editions. I don’t think matching the character of the rest of the footage was something GL ever overly concerned himself with. I feel like if we could get it 80% of the way there, most audiences would be able to buy it. A lot of it would come down to the color grade.

I also think SC38 reimagined just doesn’t work from a storytelling perspective, whereas I do feel like this scene enhances the story and adds context.

Post
#1491749
Topic
Making the Obi-Wan & Anakin training session (From the Kenobi series) work in an AOTC edit.
Time

So, I really think this scene could slot in nicely in an AOTC edit, between the opening bombing and the scene in Palpatine’s office (or after the Senate deleted scene, if you use that). I think it gives a nice bit of extra context to Anakin’s frustrations with Obi-Wan, and it really shows off how skilled he is, which may make him seem like a bit less of a brat.

However there’s a lot that would need to be addressed about the scene to make it fit in stylistically with Attack of the Clones. These include:
-De-aging on Anakin to match his appearance in AOTC.
-A New Color Grade to match AOTC (preferably the HDTV version) Ideally, it would probably be better to work from 10-bit HDR but I used an 8-bit SDR version since the deaged clips I found were also SDR.
-Particularly shaky shots will need to be stabilized to better match George Lucas’s style of cinematography. (The battle on Geonosis actually has some handheld shots but they are used pretty sparingly)
-A brand new 5.1 sound mix with appropriate John Williams music and new foley.

To start, I’ve cut the scene together and used AI software to isolate the dialogue. This effectively removes the music but unfortunately also means the foley will need to be built from the ground up. I’ve also borrowed some de-aged shots from the YouTuber Darth Porg: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhPmdlUuwOI
There are others out there but I thought these looked pretty good.

Here is the clip in full 4K ProRes for those who’d like to tinker, it’s a large file. While AOTC was shot in 1080p, the 4K gives more latitude to crop and stabilize shots: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1joyQ5fIUGD57AtC8TI9Slx0Y0zasQdj-/view?usp=sharing

Post
#1491655
Topic
Spence's Obi-Wan Kenobi (V4 Final Released)
Time

SpenceEdit said:

Octorox said:

This looks really similar to what I was hoping to do with the series (Although it sounds like I liked it more than you overall). Unfortunate that you had to cut the duel flashback though, because I think it informs Vader’s actions in Episodes 5 and 6. Without that illustration of Anakin’s impatience, especially around Kenobi, he just seems like he’s making stupid mistakes. The flashback gives it an emotional underpinning.

I think that’s conveyed enough in Kenobi’s “all he will see is me” dialogue with Reva. Either way, the flashback is cool in the series but stops a movie dead.

That makes sense. Regardless, yours is the edit I’m most looking forward to.

Post
#1491631
Topic
Spence's Obi-Wan Kenobi (V4 Final Released)
Time

This looks really similar to what I was hoping to do with the series (Although it sounds like I liked it more than you overall). Unfortunate that you had to cut the duel flashback though, because I think it informs Vader’s actions in Episodes 5 and 6. Without that illustration of Anakin’s impatience, especially around Kenobi, he just seems like he’s making stupid mistakes. The flashback gives it an emotional underpinning.