Octorox

EDIT: Double postage. Sorry! :)

Hmm...then why is the SD moving forward in the previous shot?

Awesome clip Ady. However, I feel that in the "first catch of the day" shot, Hoth should probably get bigger faster.

C3PX said:

Baronlando said:

Han in Jedi is a funny thing. By the end, he's essentially become a team player, with a grownup job in the new government and a wife.

Well, that is EU stuff. None of it is in the movie.

By the end of ROTJ, Han is merely a fighter in the battle against tyrany and stands a good chance to get lucky with the princess. At that point there was nothing to say the Empire was, or that Han was going to take a job in the New Republic, marry Leia, or even that there would be a New Republic (as there was nothing to say the Empire was over, other than having lost their second end all be all weapon, and having lost their Emperor. If the President of the US was killed, and we lost a few of our finest battleships, it would suck big time, but the US government would be far from fallen). 

And

Han Solo Unleashed! HAHA! That would be pretty awesome.

well, I'd equate the Emperor more to a dictator than a U.S. President. If the President dies, there is a system in place to deal with that. If a dictator dies the region can fall into chaos.

C3PX said:

Vaderisnothayden said:

I was using reminiscent in the sense of "meaningfully reminiscent" or "the whole is reminiscent", as opposed to the sense of "some bit is reminiscent". It's a valid use of the word. There are different ways things can be reminiscent and all versions I have mentioned fit in with the dictionary definition. No matter how much you follow dictionary definition, interpretation is still important. The reality is that very many words are interpreted. That's how language works. It's not a simple clean cut thing. It's messy and complicated.

 

I don't want to go about debating linguistics, but in reality language is usually pretty clean cut (though obviously, there are exceptions, but most of these exceptions are nullified by context), it only becomes messy and complicated when people decide not to play by the rules. 

You have idiot thinkers like Bill Clinton ("depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is", "depends on how you define 'alone'") who seems to think words are open to individual interpretation, but they really are not. "Is" in the English language always means "is", you cannot interpret it any other way.

If we really had to go around pondering how exactly we are to interpret the word "is" every time someone uses it in a sentence, then we'd still be walking around in animals skins, being awed at the existence of fire, and inventing wheels (in other words, we'd have a hard time progressing). But, amazingly, I can pick up a novel written by a man who died over a hundred years before I was born, and despite some linguistic evolution that may have taken place between his time and mine, I will be able to read it come out with the same story everyone else who has read that book has come out with. Sounds pretty clean cut to me.

"I was using reminiscent in the sense of "meaningfully reminiscent" or "the whole is reminiscent", as opposed to the sense of "some bit is reminiscent". It's a valid use of the word."

 

"Meaningfully reminiscent", "wholly reminiscent", "somewhat reminiscent" now we are adding qualifiers to these words to indicate the degree of reminiscence. Yes, they are all valid uses of the word, nobody would argue otherwise. However, these qualifiers seemed to be heavily lacking from the conversation that was going on not long ago. I suppose we can take this to mean that the meaning or interpretation of the word "reminiscent" was never an issue, but the degree of reminiscence was were the problem lie.

Either way, reminiscence is a rather relative thing (not in its definition or interpretation, but in the feelings of the person using the word). While I may say Battlestar Galactica is reminicent of Star Wars someone else may disagree and say, "You're completely looney! They are absolutely nothing alike!" Regardless of how this fellow feels on the matter, a fact remains: Battlestar Galactica reminds me of Star Wars. Therefore to me, BSG is reminiscent of SW, while to the other guys, BSG is not at all reminicent of SW. In other words, a rather fruitless debate.

There can be different interpretations of language. Different words have different connotations to different people. 

Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:

Ok, dudes, I figured out how to do curved borders in Vegas.  It was easier than I thought it would be... I simply had Vegas generate a large rectangular white frame, then used the "deform" filter, which includes independent controls for curving top, bottom, left, and right.  Disabled "stretch to frame", and adjusted pan as needed. I then rendered that out as a mask, which I chroma-keyed in a second pass.  The whole thing only took a couple of hours (for a small sample clip).  Now that I know how to do it, future masks will be quick to generate.

I've posted a new clip, so you can all compare straight borders versus curved borders, scene-by-scene.  It's about 30 seconds long and includes about 8 different scenes.  There has been no pulldown yet, but I have resized it according to Mothr's suggested dimensions.  I have also done modest color correction, removed the yellow corner, and done a little bit of spot removal.  A link to the clip is found at the bottom of the Grande pictures page:

http://www.hardbat.com/puggo/grandePics.html

Scroll down and right-click on "border comparison", and save the resulting .avi file.  Close comparison shows advantages of each... the curved border shows a tiny bit of more content, the straight border is - er - straighter.

Thoughts?

looks nice but it still needs to be set to anamorphic. switch the aspect ratio to 16:9 in VLC and it looks right. By default the video doesn't stretch to 16:9

As for the border, either looks fine. I like the curved because it gives you a little more picture information

I'd also do a little more color correction and clean up.

You could always have Qui-Gon appear over Obi's shoulder after Luke looks away in a second shot.

Sojourn said:

lordjedi said:

Octorox said:

The 2D Clone Wars shows a lightsaber actually boiling the water around it underwater but again that isn't canon.

If I'm not mistaken, that lightsaber was made special to be able to operate underwater.  Isn't there a cut scene from TPM where Qui-Gon berates Obi-Wan for getting his lightsaber wet, causing it to "short out"?  That's the reason he was running from the STAP.

 

Yes, that TPM scene sounds right (it's been a while since I watched the deleted scenes, but that rings a bell), and the special-ness of Fisto's lightsaber is backed up here. Though the point about Obi-Wan on Kamino is an interesting one -- perhaps his new saber was also modified, as per the article, to remain functional in the heavy rain?

The idea of steam coming from water-on-saber is an interesting one dramatically, used well in the 2D Clone Wars series when Anakin is fighting Ventress. The thing about using that series as canon, however, is that while there are some ties to the films (how the third season was used to directly tie in to ROTS, for example), there are many examples of scenes that don't seem reasonable to insert into canon -- for example, Mace Windu taking out an entire Separatist ship by himself (awesome, awesome sequence, by the way -- just not necessarily canon), Obi-Wan blocking flame-thrower fire with his hand/the Force, or Obi-Wan riding a speeder/jumping up a 50-story building. These were really cool scenes, and worked well from an entertainment standpoint, but I don't know if they're meant to be considered the official word on Jedi capabilities. :-)

 

Take care,

Sojourn

 

P.S. Aha! From later in the article: "A lightsaber blade was a massless form that neither radiated heat nor expended energy until it came into contact with something solid." This would explain the molten blast door, but also fit in with the Shadows of the Empire explanation.

 TFU had far more improbable feats than that and I think GL calls that canon

I have to disagree about Han. He stands behind Chewbacca as the boring character of the OT for me. I never found cynicism neccesary in a magical movie like Star Wars.

rcb said:

auraloffalwaffle said:

I really hope that this comes true... I remember lots of people, not just me, saying that the PT would be shown up as the crap it is over time... that 30 years after the PT, people will not love those films like people still loved the OT in '97... I just hope that in 2029 I can have a good laugh to myself about how much Luca$h threw away the respect SW had by treating the OT the way he has... thing is, he's in it for the money, so not much hope of him giving a toss anyway...

 

 now that's not fair to assume lucas just wants the money. he doesn't even need money he's so god damn rich!

anyways, the PT will stick out for many people especially future film makers. when ur kids are born they'll laugh at the

OT. Though, i'm with everyone when i say that the OT is better then the PT.

 

I think the OT will age a lot better than the PT. The biggest attraction of the PT was the flashy cgi which already looks a bit dated. Once the effects don't look so great and imaginative anymore then the crappy acting and dialogue will be brought to the forefront.

ThrowgnCpr said:

JasonN said:

Octorox said:

I'm thinking that we should see Sidious's "sith eyes" there in the darkness.

Eh, no - the whole point is of those edits to keep Sidious's identity (and face ) a secret until the third and last film of the trilogy (The Black Knight Rises).

 

I don't think he was referring to a feature that would identify or allude to it being Palpatine, but rather just wanting to see some evil looking eyes (akin to some sith) peering through.  Either way, I dont think it makes a difference, though from your test shots, the last was the most realistic/believable, and this had no eyes at all.  So I say leave them out.

precisely. We never even see Palpatine with the sith eyes anyway. I just mean some glowing jawa style sith eyes under the hood.

Sojourn said:

ThrowgnCpr said:

well, how would ice react when put into contact with something as hot as a lightsaber?  I think some ice falling would help, but I am sure some would also turn to a gas, and this could create a little cloud.

 

While there's some debate about this (especially with some more recent EU stuff), lightsabers didn't originally give off heat. For example, in Shadows of the Empire (which while EU, was a media campaign by Lucas set between ESB and ROTJ), when Luke is building his lightsaber, and he tests it for the first time, he holds the blade right next to his hand to see if it gives off any heat, stating that if it did, there would be something wrong with it. At the same time, lightsabers have been seen to make burn marks when cutting into things, melting the metal of blast doors in TPM, etc. They only sometimes cause steam/smoke when coming in contact with flesh (and therefore moisture). As you can see, accounts are inconsistent, but there's no definite proof from the films that a lightsaber generates heat, or that when coming into contact with moisture, that it would create steam (the way a red-hot piece of metal would, for example). One could even argue (and some SW books have) that a lightsaber would actually short out when coming into contact with water, since it's an energy beam, not a physical object.

 

Also, on the topic of radio drama dialogue: I really liked what ady did with the Biggs line in ANH:R, but as with everything else in this edit, we should be cautious about adding stuff just for the sake of adding it, or because we can. For example, while adding that line from the beginning of the duel might make it more "complete", it doesn't necessarily work from a character/story perspective, at least not for me. That moment is such a wonderfully ominous one, with Vader appearing at the top of the stairs, completely in control of the situation. Luke giving a snappy, bordering-on-flippant response undermines the emotional impact of the scene, which is rooted in the fear that Vader instills. Anyway, those are just my thoughts -- what do you think?

 

Take care,

Sojourn

The 2D Clone Wars shows a lightsaber actually boiling the water around it underwater but again that isn't canon.

Erikstormtrooper said:

I could be off my rocker here, but I think there's a "door droid" in one of the new Clone Wars cartoons. That might be useful.

Yeah. I think they actually used it in a few episodes

Bingowings said:

Has Robot Chicken done an eye droid sketch yet? With all those little roundels to choose from they could have done a Rowan & Martin's Laugh-In style joke wall.

Probably saving it for III

Well you know, you could always experiment with ways to take the frosting off, or even try to track down an old frozen cake and preserve it for others. Perhaps reverse-engineer the recipe? If a restaurant changes their menu, it can't be taken personally, but you can do your best to try to resurrect that cake.

trying to avoid recognizable film music? darn. I was about to say most other Williams music as well as bit's of the score for Wall-E

DarkFather said:

I wouldn't have him as a crippled man inside life-support armor.

My villain would probably be a seasoned military commander that wears the armor when going into battle.

What I need is a talented artist that can put some of my character design ideas to paper. My younger brother is a phenomenal artist, but he's occupied right now.

I'd say it depends on how close it is to the art, and to the final Vader design. Plenty of characters in games and movies have similar design elements. You just have to be able to set your universe apart. There should be fundamental differences and new twists to the Star Wars formula.

Wow, I really like that Dagobah stuff, and I really would like to see more Alien creatures on Dagobah. I believe the EPIII deleted scenes had some great creatures in it that gave it a somewhat spooky atmosphere. How about trying to take a stab at incorporating some of those Vaderios.

ThrowgnCpr said:

lol, i dont know if I would call it unduly complicated. it would take only a couple minutes to set up, literally.  But, yes, there may be a feather option.  I just havent used it. 

The mask I created before was not a simple letterbox.  I had to vary the amount of transparency in certain sections (thus, a simple feather tool in Vegas wouldn't have sufficed).  I would be surprised though, if Vegas didnt have this ability built in, or a plugin available

Well, it's not that complicated, it's just a little bit of a hassle...

btw

I probably took to many liberties with the color and contrast but still. I"m not sure how much you have to stretch it after anamorphically enhancing it.

ThrowgnCpr said:

Jonno said:

Does Vegas allow you to create a gradiented (graded? gradaded...?) mask?

I think a slightly 'windowboxed' effect, with a soft vignetted edge around all four sides could be very effective method in masking those distortions, with the extra benefit of evoking that lovely 'projected' look.

I don't know Vegas very well at all, but we do have it running on some edit suites where I work, so I could have a poke around the masking options and get an idea of what's possible...

Yes, you could add a feathered mask in Vegas (or really any editor for that matter).  It would simply involve making a .PNG the appropriate size and adding it as a layer over the video in Vegas.  I have done this myself for something different.

 

wow that's unduly complicated. There's no built in edge feather in Vegas?

ben_danger said:

what did he do?

He trimmed a lot of the introductions at the moisture farm to move the pace along, and then, in a pretty genius move he had Anakin's mother never finish saying "I love you" so Anakin feels no sense of finality. It makes Padme saying "I love you" to Anakin towards the end of the film more powerful.

JasonN said:

The "Sidious" composites tests are an older version - here's an updated version of the scene:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFmUhvT_A9g

(and yes, I'm aware that his face is still visible in the reflection on the table - it has since been removed from the final composite)

I'm thinking that we should see Sidious's "sith eyes" there in the darkness.

ben_danger said:

in AOTC, when anakin returns to tatooine to the homestead, perhaps things could be reorganised slightly?

 

anakin shows up at the homestead, to find his mother dead and buried. He kneels at the grave, and like one of the edits, the line 'i miss you so much' is shortened to 'i miss you'.

 

then we cut to them sitting at the homestead, and lars explains how she was taken by the tusken, dialogue is cut so we know she is dead. anakin gets up and he says 'your mother is dead son' (paraphrased) and anakin silently walks off, gets on a speeder, finds the tusken and kills them. (the hunting of the tusken would be shortened and probably just show anakin leaving on the speeder and emerging at the camp)

 

this could make his killing a bit more premeditated, though i understand if it could be a bit too heavy too soon

I personally prefer the Phantom Editor's subtle edits throughout the sequence

Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:

Ok, I think I've figured out how to set the anamorphic flag in TMPGEnc (I already knew how to set the pulldown flag).  I'm testing it out now.  So now I have a question...

Mothr has been touting the avisynth filter Spline36resize, and has provided some numbers for using it to convert to widescreen.  On the other hand, Octorox has touted using the anamorphic DVD flag.  Am I right in surmising that the best approach would be to: (1) use Spline36resize (or something similar) to adjust the size of the content portion of the frame to 4:3, if necessary, and then (2) use the anamorphic flag, -not- Spline36resize, to allow the DVD player to convert it to widescreen?  Or am I missing something?

I'm encoding a test as I write this.

Also, I've recaptured the film (yet again), and so I should have new screen captures posted by tomorrow - with slightly less cropping.  Your highlighting really shows how much cropping was done on this print.  This, plus the hair embedded in two of the reels, and the sloppy edits, tells me that they didn't put much care into it when they produced these 16mm prints.

Going by spaced ranger's post I'd first set the anamorphic flag and then use the percents that he came up with the stretch te video vertically and horizontally. I don't use avisynth so I can't really help you beyond that. Perhaps you could do this in your editor rather than avisynth?

Bingowings said:

Octorox said:

Bingowings said:

A different beginning for C3PO?

 

but how would he go from being In the hands of the Federation to Amidala and then the rebels? maybe he could somehow escape with Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan and then somehow replace Jarjar in the scenes that follow? (Wishful thinking I know)

My plan many posts back was to have Nute Gunray order Threepio to stay with the Queen (the Federation bods don't speak English so they need a protocol droid) until she signs the treaty...as she never signs he stays with her until the end (including getting on her cruiser) because Padme doesn't reveal herself to be Amidala until the last act he stays with whoever is calling herself the Queen so he doesn't get off at Tatooine but does follow her into the throne room where he refuses to shoot her because it's against his programming.

There is alot of Anthony Daniels material to sample from and get enough dialogue.

It just needs someone with the patience to slip him into the footage.

I thought it would be fitting if R2 and 3P0 came from the opposite sides in the beginning.

 

cool idea but I could see it being very difficult to execute. where could you work in this whole new 3po backstory?