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Obi-wonton

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16-Jul-2004
Last activity
14-Jan-2006
Posts
453

Post History

Post
#67550
Topic
Why the fans complain...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/67550/action/topic#67550
Time
Not in the hands of a gifted editor...it wouldn't. I still love the way a new hope opens the droids, the ship the shooting, vader's entrance...cut to Luke looking with his binoculars up at the sky thinking something's going on...cut to the R2 and leia and her getting stunned, cut to luke heading into the bar to grab biggs and the girl to look at the sky with the binoculars and see there's a battle going on, they dismiss him saying its nothing. Right after that and clearly not before or during the looking through the binoculars the droids launch free of the ship towards tatooine. Now Biggs has the conversation with Luke about joining the rebellion and him having to leave. The droids land on the planet and then as I said those situations have more gravity with the friendship established and Luke's desire to join the rebellion is more fervent, Luke going out that night with Biggs on his last night and missing it seems more weighty and of course ultimately losing biggs now matters.
Post
#67515
Topic
Why the fans complain...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/67515/action/topic#67515
Time
I think whats ironic is the deleted scenes that could add a lot to the story...like the Biggs Darklighter scenes...could add the friendship. It would mean more when Luke wants to go into town to see his friends and pick up power converters, it would mean more when Luke wants to join the rebellion, it would mean more when his friend Biggs comes to save him and ultimately gives his life for Luke to make the ultimate shot to save the known universe.

But we get Greedo and Han and Jabba tail stepping scenes that not only are pointless but irritating, and OMG that song in Jabba's palace with the singers in ROTJ...holy crap is that crappy...I think that's that worst scene of all.
Post
#66737
Topic
Interview with Gary Kurtz (very good - from 2002 at IGN)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/66737/action/topic#66737
Time
I pulled some of the Star Wars highlights, good stuff, a good total interview worth reading in an entirity, but...

IGNFF: Well, I know that when talking about the directors and the auteur theory and directors throwing off their shackles in the '70s and what it eventually led to... by the way, a group of friends of mine, we have something that we, ironically enough, call the Kurtz Theory – which directly relates to Lucas. Essentially, it's that when you lose all checks and balances – someone who has the ability to say no to you or to convince you that this might not be the right direction – you get films like Episode I.

KURTZ: Yeah. Well, I think that's true. In the case of Episode I, there's probably something else going on as well, which is it was a merchandise-driven project ... they knew that the money from the merchandising would make a lot more money than the money from the film. It's a tired film, in the sense that there's no passion or energy there, and that comes from that kind of slightly cynical attitude, I think. There's a lot that could have been. In Episode I, there's a tremendous amount of story potential that was wasted.

IGNFF: Well what were the original outlines for the prequels? Since they can be compared and contrasted now that the first one's out there, and the second one's soon to be out there. Were there major differences from what you saw, from the original outlines of prequel ideas?

KURTZ: Well a lot of the prequel ideas were very, very vague. It's really difficult to say. I can't remember much about that at all, except dealing with the Clone Wars and the formation of the Jedi Knights in the first place – that was supposed to be one of the keys of Episode I, was going to be how the Jedi Knights came to be. But all of those notes were abandoned completely. One of the reasons Jedi came out the way it did was because the story outline of how Jedi was going to be seemed to get tossed out, and one of the reasons I was really unhappy was the fact that all of the carefully constructed story structure of characters and things that we did in Empire was going to carry over into Jedi. The resolution of that film was going to be quite bittersweet, with Han Solo being killed, and the princess having to take over as queen of what remained of her people, leaving everybody else. In effect, Luke was left on his own. None of that happened, of course.

IGNFF: So it would have been less of a fairy-tale ending?

KURTZ: Much, much less. It would have been quite sad, and poignant and upbeat at the same time, because they would have won a battle. But the idea of another attack on another Death Star wasn't there at all ... it was a rehash of Star Wars, with better visual effects. And there were no Ewoks ... it was just entirely different. It was much more adult and straightforward, the story. This idea that the roller-coaster ride was all the audience was interested in, and the story doesn't have to be very adult or interesting, seemed to come up because of what happened with Raiders of the Lost Ark and the Indiana Jones films – and the fact that that seemed to make a lot of money and it didn't matter whether there was a really good story or not – that wasn't what this kind of film was about. We had serious differences about a lot of that.

IGNFF: And, overall, your opinion on Episode I would be?

KURTZ: Well, I don't know that I'm a very impartial observer. As I said, I knew what some of the history was about and what it could have been in terms of way back when we were talking about it, so in that sense just going to see the film and seeing the way it turned out was a disappointment because of my built-in connection to all of that past. That's not fair for the film, because the film isn't that film, or it isn't one of the ones that we talked about – it's a different film, with a different script. But I think I'm objective enough to say that even given that parameter and given the script that they ended up with, I felt it was very, very weak. It isn't very dramatic and I was very bored in watching it. There were no surprises ... nothing that was unexpected, and there wasn't anything that I was looking forward to. I was quite disappointed, actually.

IGNFF: Oh, I don't know – in Episode I, the CGI still calls attention to itself.

KURTZ: Well, it does, yes, that's true. Even though there's lots of it and most of the shots have some kind of CGI – but it's less annoying, I think, and stands out less than it does in the Special Editions.

If you remember the scene when the robots go down to Tatooine, to the desert, and then later you cut back to the Stormtroopers looking for them, there's a scene where Stormtroopers are sitting up on the hill in the background riding what looks like a giant lizard. In the original, that's a mock-up that we borrowed, rendered from a prop house, and carried all the way out there and stuck it there in the sand. It didn't do anything. There was just a Stormtrooper sitting on a giant lizard, a model. It doesn't do anything – it's just in the background and the Stormtrooper in the foreground stands up with a piece of the robot and says, "They've been here." That's all the scene is supposed to be for. As it is in the Special Edition, that Stormtrooper on the dinosaur in the background moves – it's all CGI.

IGNFF: And it adds nothing whatsoever to the story.

KURTZ: I know, and that's what I mean with the proliferation. Just because you can do it, doesn't make it better. But those animals moving actually distract from the principal purpose of the scene. If they had been horses, if it had been a Western and those were horses, chances are the horses would have just been sitting there, because horses do that a lot. They don't move much. If they're not running or trotting or something, sometimes they just sit there – and maybe flick their ears a bit – for long periods of time.

IGNFF: But they don't do a song and dance number.

KURTZ: No, they don't move around at all. They just stand there. If they had made it that subtle, if they had had that creature in the background move its head an inch to the right or something, a blink – that would have been all that you need to do. But it's not necessary at all, because the way it was in the beginning, in the first place, it was that way because that's all we could afford and it worked fine. I'm just not a great believer in messing with what is done. It may not be perfect, and as I said a long time ago, there's nothing that is. No movie is perfect, and every filmmaker is going to sit and watch a movie that he made 10 years ago, or 30 years ago, or 50 years ago, and say, "Oh, I wish I could have done that better."

IGNFF: You're the person to ask about this – when you're talking about these kind of special editions and changes and are they due to an original vision or changing sensibilities – I have to ask you about your thoughts regarding the infamous redo of the scene with Greedo in the cantina.... the whole shooting first thing.

KURTZ: Yeah, I really was livid about that one. I think it was a total – it ruins the scene, basically. The scene was never intended that way. Han Solo realized that Greedo was out to get him and he had to blast him first or he would lose his life. It shows you how much of a mercenary he is. That's what the point of the scene was. And so the way they've changed it around, it loses the whole impact of that whole aspect of it.

IGNFF: Do you think that's due to George's changing sensibilities as opposed to his argument that, "No, that was my original intention"?

KURTZ: Well, he can say that was his original intention, but we could have shot it that way very easily. There was no reason that it couldn't have been shot that way. It was shot and edited the way it was because that's the way the script was. That's what he wanted at the time.

IG
Post
#66701
Topic
Lucas on CNN.com - 'Why Lucas tinkered with Star Wars' article
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/66701/action/topic#66701
Time
What's ironic is we built his "empire" (pun intended) so he can have that creative freedom he enjoys. If he was still trying to ride THX and American Graffiti (both good movies, but not hugely popular) he'd be an afterthought by now. He wouldn't have the money or the power he has now. To ignore the fans. Well, its crap. It's like a primadonna athlete that was amazing and then chastises his fans, then bitches there's a disconnect. Screw Lucas. Really. The technology is getting better with fan edits, fan fiction and fan films...what he screwed up we'll correct and now it will be by the fans for the fans. What he doesn't realize is it was ours all along. We made it great, we made it possible to do a trilogy, we made it pop culture. It has grown in to a worldwide phenomenon because of of us. He sucks and I am tired of his attitude.
Post
#66480
Topic
MagnoliaFan Edits: Ep I "Balance Of The Force", and Ep II "The Clone War" (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/66480/action/topic#66480
Time
How awesome would that be if Yoda was a sith master?!! Damn. And Luke thinks he training to learn the force, but Yoda's pushing towards the darkside. All part of his diabolical plan. We could add a scene after the Yub-Yub song and the Naboo celebration where Naboo blows up and Luke pulls out his saber gives into the dark side (after seeing a ghost of his dad, younger than him (hayden) and he cuts down all the ewoks in a rage like Anakin did with the sand people. Damn. Yoda a Sith Master...I like it. That better than Emperor/Senator Palpatine. Cool.
Post
#66477
Topic
Kevin Smith question
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/66477/action/topic#66477
Time
rotflmao!!!! hahahahahahaha. A good half, dang. Oh man. I am busting a gut here. Dear God I wish we could literally edit Jar-Jar out of those scene with the film intact, but that would require incredible interprolation beyond the like of anything we have or getting a hold of the film pre-CG addition which George Lucas would probably not lend to our cause. Just a guess. Though he seems very flexible on edits, piracy and doing things different than he wants them. Episode I sucks so bad with Jar-Jar and the "WEESSAA FREE " thing in ROTJ now OMG. Stop the madness. I cringe thinking of Jar-Jar. That cannonball he does in the lake. All of his scenes, his 3 stooges actions, his annoying voices, the words he says.........AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH I hate him. HATE HIM. Look I started s ohappy and now I am mad. Oh well.
Post
#66300
Topic
Amazon Reviews (re the 2004 OT SE DVD release)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/66300/action/topic#66300
Time
Well this is what I just wrote amazon on the link above for customer suggestions about the site

Please drop the reviews of the videotapes from your reviews for the Star Wars boxset. They are different and while you do have that "this refers to the VHS edition", factoring in the review or the score is not appropriate here.

The versions are considerably different. It makes sense to mix when 1. They are essentially the same 2. There is a low volume of total reviews 3. People may not know much about the film

In this case none of those are true, with 1300 reviews total, we could pull out the hundreds that refer strictly to the boxset. There have been many technical chages to these film (many for the better) there have been many additions (many for the worse) and many things left off (the Original Films). Further it is being reported that there are audio issues with "A New Hope".

Please seperate these out. The reviews that stick to the top are one that are refering to the VHS tapes (The original theatrical cut, not the Special Edition of 1997). Ones that have 300+ comments, so those have very little bearing here.

I do appreciate that you do make mention in your own review about the changes, but I still think with your number one selling DVD and the something that attracts so much attention this should be considered.

Thank You.
Post
#66299
Topic
Amazon Reviews (re the 2004 OT SE DVD release)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/66299/action/topic#66299
Time

People on Amazon (338 0f them) have commented on this critics review. But like was mentioned above it refers to the VHS edition (and which one - not the SE) so why is this on there. And it sticks towards the top because its been reviewed so many times. 5/5 stars, glowing review, they (the mass public) may think all is well. It is a travesty that this review is listed with the Boxset reviews. I understand with some more independent type movies that you may need old reviews, because there may be one or two total, but that is not the case here.


Below is the review.

I urge you to ask Amazon to drop the VHS editions reviews its destructive and while its labeled it shouldn't be factored in score-wise to these new DVDs.

Customer comments about the site for Amazon Link

The Best Trilogy in Film History, June 21, 2003
***** (5stars)
Reviewer: A. Ross "indy31" (New Zealand) - See all my reviews

George Lucas' first instalment in the immensely popular STAR WARS franchise is generally regarded as the greatest movie ever made. Why? Well, what's not to like? From the opening shot of the Blockade Runner accompanied by that great theme tune by John Williams, you know you're in the unique world of the STAR WARS universe. Before George's prequels THE PHANTOM MENACE and ATTACK OF THE CLONES, A NEW HOPE was known only as STAR WARS. Audiences had never seen anything so original and amazing. Now, the series has entered into the fanboy culture all over the world. In comparison, Episode 4 seems somewhat tame compared to AOTC in terms of action, but it's still an astounding adventure filled with great characters and wonderful escapsim.
From Hero Luke Skywalker's symbolic journey from his home Tatooine to the moment of victory at the finale, we are greeted with a myriad of fantastic characters, especially Han Solo, played by a pre-Indy Harrison Ford and his buddy Chewbacca. And the ultimate incarnation of evil, Darth Vader. And that, more than anything, is what made TPM so hollow. While the action was good, the lack of good characters is disappointing. But AOTC has regained much of the sense of adventure that this film started off.
Lucas' grand vision illuminates the entire film, with inventive creatures and events. Several scenes that are my favorites are Obi Wan's conversation to Luke about the Clone Wars and Vader, Solo's disposal of Greedo, Obi Wan and Vader's last confrontation and the battle of Yavin. One of my all-time favorite films, STAR WARS is THE great adventure.
Directed by Irvin Kershner, THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK moved away from the high-sprited antics of the first film and took a step towards the dark side. The Empire is preparing to seek revenge on the Rebel Alliance, C3P0 gets blasted to bits and Luke Skywalker finds out that Darth Vader is his dad! Even John William's score is much darker in tone than his previous efforts. But the film is an excellent adventure that many fans consider to be superior to the original. Mark Hamill returns as Luke, Carrie Fisher as Princess Leia and Harrison Ford as the sardonic Han Solo. And we are introduced to the wise Yoda, who trains Luke about the ways of a Jedi. The action ante is upped considerably, with fantastic chases through asteroid feilds, battles between snowspeeders and the AT-ATs and Luke's rescue mission. And the Bespin Duel, where the confrontational battle between Vader and Luke ends with one of the most shocking revelations in movie history (Even if it's somewhat un-surprising for future fans who watch all the completed films in sequence).

RETURN OF THE JEDI starts off with Luke and Leia rescuing Han Solo from the crime lord Jabba the Hutt. While the film is less exciting than it's counterparts, it does have some good action, including the rescue on the desert skiff, the speeder chase through the forest of Endor, the dark final battle between Darth Vader, Emperor Palpatine and Luke and the destruction of the second Death Star. The lightsaber fights are some of the best in the Star Wars cannon and Princess Leia is hotter than ever! John William's score is even more exciting than ESB.
If I were to place the Star Wars films in order from best to not-as-good, they would go THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK, A NEW HOPE, RETURN OF THE JEDI, ATTACK OF THE CLONES and THE PHANTOM MENACE.
This presentation is very impressive, with added scenes and improved SFX. We see more of Jabba the Hutt, there are some great additions including the amazing Bespin City and the added celebration scenes at the end of JEDI. A classic trilogy, and a must-buy when it gets on DVD (Hurry up George). --This text refers to the VHS Tape edition
Post
#66289
Topic
Amazon Reviews (re the 2004 OT SE DVD release)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/66289/action/topic#66289
Time
Cool, we need to be active in this. Like I said its the number one site for reviews in the world and a lot of people base their buys (many do not purchase from there) based on criticisms and ratings. The news might says some cursory statements of ignorance, like... "Its the greatest trilogy of all time, now with the DVD treatment and its number one for good reason." Not mentioning audio errors, things missing (more documentaries, deleted scenes), things altered and changed. It should be our mission to help people out there get the word. Further, Lucas needs to see a number of stars and a volume of reviews that reflect greatness and disgust with what trul is the greatest trilogy of all time (changed for the worse). Thanks guys.


BTW to Amazon's credit they do put this in their own summary...

What's Been Changed?
The rumors are true: Lucas made more changes to the films for their DVD debut. Hayden Christensen (Anakin Skywalker) has been added to a scene in Jedi, Ian McDiarmid (the Emperor) replaces Clive Revill with slightly revised lines in Empire, Temuera Morrison has rerecorded Boba Fett's minimal dialogue, and some other small details have been altered. Yes, these changes mean that the Star Wars films are no longer the ones you saw 20 years ago, but these brief changes hardly affect the films, and they do make sense in the overall continuity of the two trilogies. It's not like a digitized Ewan McGregor has replaced Alec Guiness's scenes, and the infamous changes made for the 1997 special-edition versions were much more intrusive (of course, those are in the DVD versions as well).
Post
#66018
Topic
Amazon Reviews (re the 2004 OT SE DVD release)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/66018/action/topic#66018
Time

Look this site is important and the message is important please post on amazon.com for the OT DVD boxset. This is probably the number one thing people the world over look at. As of right now its rank on Amazon is number and has 1236 reviews (including mine), interestingly it has 3.5 stars…many give 5 and many give 1 (not atypical). So about 30% are giving it one star in reviews and 70% 5. 3.5 already makes a statement. I would like to see this board make an impact on there. If you love it give it five, if not give what you want, but put something…OT.com needs to leave its mark. Let people know that they need to be prepared that these are not the movies they saw in the theatre or have on video, just remastered. Let them know about this site if they are mad. Let them know about the audio problems and Lucasfilms stance.

I am trying to rally the troops here…

Amazon.com’s 2004 Star Wars Trilogy DVD boxset

Post
#65938
Topic
An angry Review of the 2004 OT SE DVD's
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/65938/action/topic#65938
Time
They hugely political and have strong religious influences. The books are indeed about the industrial revolution, coal mining, WWI, oppression, the landscapes of England and his best friend was CS lewis wrote fantasy (Narnia) as well, but also wrote innumerous theological works. They met at a pub every week and talked about their writings. He was a brilliant cartographer (maps) and linguist (Elvish,etc). The languages and customs of the creatures in his books come from the rich history of England itself and lost languages, songs, poetry and customs. There is some great specials on his life on those discs if you watch them. He was truly brilliant.
Post
#65893
Topic
Proof OOT has been restored? + DVD quality Pre-ANH footage!
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/65893/action/topic#65893
Time
Lowry talked about further restoration to the point of HD with these discs, but he was not allowed to go that far. As good as they look he said he could have pushed them more. Both Lowry and Kershner have alluded to work being done on their high def release probably by the 30th anniversary and mentioned deleted scenes being put on that package.
Post
#65011
Topic
It is truly a matter of time
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/65011/action/topic#65011
Time
I am a huge Red Sox fan and each year that goes by, I have more faith in the Red Sox finally winning a world series over the odds of the OT getting released. This is a man who's company edited guns out of the hands of the men in ET and replaced them with Walkie-Talkies (yes Spielberg and Lucas are in cullusion for cartoon PG kiddieness). This is the man the releases not the director's cut, but the "GEORGE LUCAS DIRECTOR'S CUT" of THX 1138, again with new CG and promised that the theatrical cut is gone. And he means it. I think Luca$' attitude is the more we serve up fanboy hate, the more he steals it away and makes it "his project" of supposed genius, though leaning now towards self-delusion. No, my friend, Star Wars has gone the way of Jar-Jar and Company. It is far more Roger Rabbit now, having live actors mixed in with CG, then the reverse. The brilliance of Star Wars is now mixed with Naboo Celebrations (Jar-Jar actually goes "WEEESA FREEEE!" in the ROTJ now). My friend I hope you do have that much patience...there won't be that cut until after his death. Now there are people working on that cut and soon there will be excellent copies of edits and that will be as good as it gets. Don't worry you'll have more CG goodness in Ep. III coming, lunchboxes, toys, and YES A TV SERIES!!!!!

Keep waiting. And welcome to the board. Most of us our bitter here and "A New Hope" means magnoliafan edits here and not the crap getting released on 9/21.
Post
#64694
Topic
Star Wars Media Day
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/64694/action/topic#64694
Time
By the way there is a full interview with George Lucas in the actual print version of this magazine. I bought it and it is eye-opening to say the least. He says the only reason he released the DVD's now is not because of fans, its because of piracy and he's worried about that. MEANING HE WANTS MAXIMUM $$$$. And why not have the next go round be HD-DVD (this release obviously is not HD and Lowry is working on improving them further) with deleted scenes (not on this boxset) a DTS soundtrack (not on this boxset) and of course his beloved PT with many of the "deleted scenes" he put on those discs so far, put back in (his plan all along, they were the scenes he liked but edited for time). The question is and remains what about the real OT. No rumor from anyone, anywhere if that will ever come to pass. Sad

By the way he did the interview with Carrie Fisher as the interviewer, so its hardly hard hitting expose.

Got this from another site. (S&V wont put the interview up online)

Quote Highlights from Fisher's Interview with Lucas:

-- On the Star Wars films, Lucas says "I still enjoy the films quite a
bit. They still hold up for me."

-- Does Lucas watch films over and over again on his home theater system?
"The most I've ever seen a film was about ten times, and that was Hard
Day's Night in film school. Now, if I see a film more than once, it's
by accident."

-- Of today's movie theater experience he comments, "In some cases, it's
getting better, but in a lot of cases it's the same as it has been.
It's very hard to get people to understand that if they would use
digital projectors, the quality of the prints -- the quality of the
film itself -- would stay high rather than degenerating over the few
weeks it runs in the theater."

-- With the advances in technology and sophisticated home theater systems,
will people ever stop going to the movies? Lucas believes, "... people
will always go to communal events because humans are social animals.
They'll always go to the opera and the ballet, and they'll always go to
the movies."

-- On the timing of the Star Wars Trilogy DVD release he explains, "It was
supposed to come out later, but piracy being the way it is, it's
getting harder and harder to release DVD's. Soon, it's going to be
impossible because they'll all be pirated."

-- Is he surprised by the advancements in home theater systems? "No.
It's an inevitable evolutionary process. I expect them to get bigger
and better, with more storage. We've already reached the acceptable
side of things in terms of image quality."