The great thing about the fireplace scene is that it can be removed without any fuss. The absolute worst scenes are ones that sit there, essential and immovable (without a lot of editing anyway), making everything else worse by their crappy presence.
If I had to decide the worst scene of every movie, I would say:
TROS: “You are a Palpatine”
I can’t decide which moment is the worst out of all of them.
I can.
So they used two takes of the same scene back to back.
I’m amazed
…and insulted.Lucas/Chew/Hirsch did the same thing more than a few times in 1977, IIRC.
I don’t think it’s insulting really. It’s just editing. The whole thing is a trick. Some tricks are better than others.
That there’s a big Zapruder-like YouTube video “exposing” it seems odd, to me. “They’re trying to fool you, but we see through their attempts!” Of course they’re trying to fool you. They’re filmmakers.
Yeah, I’ve never liked the Plinkett-style videos that take a thousand nitpicks and pass it off as “objective criticism”. It just seems like reaching to get as much criticism as possible, and by extension make the movies seem as bad as possible. If you applied the same style of criticism to the OT, those movies would seem like the worst movies of all time. I was just pointing out that I noticed this editing quirk before, I wasn’t saying I have a problem with it.
I’d love to see a parody Plinkett video on why Empire Strikes Back is an objectively bad movie.
I feel like I watched a video with this premise, but a quick Youtube search doesn’t give any decent results.
I haven’t seen this mentioned anywhere on this site, but this video provides an excellent analysis of TROS creating a new scene from outtakes of another scene: https://youtu.be/ECnectUdeOo?t=122
The creative process behind this is certainly interesting. Puzzling, but interesting.
Fascinating.
Thanks! I was kinda wondering if anyone at all was still reading it actually, but it’s nice to know you’re still here RL. 😃
I had edited the Thrawn scene yesterday to go the ‘Sith collective consciousness’ route instead of the ‘Skywalkers as Sith Legacy’ because the former feels more simple and in line with TROS, as well as having more potential for drama with Kylo and the knights. The death of the green knight has also been edited to more clearly reflect this.
Also, personal note for a future edit: Introduce ZE-7 when the Falcon first arrives at Gramelon as a guide to the castle.
Eh, you can’t convince me it would have been worse than what we actually got.
Well Force need not be a strictly Star Wars term and short evocative terms like Jedi and Sith have a certain mystique, but I see your point with the Mandalorian.
Exactly. It’s very much cumulative when seen all at once.
This video sums up pretty well why I really love the Dark Empire comics and why so many people hate it. It’s a fun story that stretched the rules a little to allow a dead character to return so that we could further explore a set of ideas only touched upon in ROTJ, and I’ve always found it a little frustrating that the old EU, once it settled and hardened, never really dared to do something like it again.
I also find it funny that SW has ended up with some of the most nitpicky fans as it’s not really a franchise that ever seemed to care that much about the finer details to begin with. I can see why something like Star Trek need to adhere to more rules since it’s much harder sci-fi, but ironically they’ve always played very loose with the smaller details, sometimes even contradicting things within the same series.
The only time I’m really frustrated by a change or alteration on lore is when it breaks narrative cohesion or blatantly contradicts something important like how a character has always behaved or the overall theme of a series (though even these can be vague and highly subjective).
One reason the fans are so ‘nitpicky’ might be because Star Wars is famous for caring little for consistent canon and handwaving its details. Because of this, any current creator of Star Wars will feel (perhaps rightly) that the details don’t matter and everything is in service of adding drama to a story, dragging Star Wars ever further away from a sense of verisimilitude across stories. So now a fan who was okay with the moderate level of canon fragmentation during the OT may feel that the current level of extreme fragmentation is too much, and become a ‘nitpicky fan’.
This is all theoretical of course 😉
In TESB after Luke leaves Dagobah and Obi-wan says “That boy is our last hope” and then Yoda says “No, there is another._.”, was he simply reminding Obi-wan about Leia? Or did Obi-wan not know about her being Lukes sister until ROTJ?
Real answer is that Leia wasn’t Luke’s sister until Georgie boy retconned it ROTJ.
Canonical answer is that Obi-wan kinda forgot about Leia being Luke’s sister after Episode 3.
My answer is that Obi-wan just didn’t know Luke had a sister, for whatever reason. Disregard Prequel Nonsense.
Rey’s vision feels absolutely perfect, better than the original for sure.
Kylo’s vision veers a bit into fanedit territory for me, mainly due to reusing so many shots from TLJ. Perhaps removing some of the shots that are clearly not from Kylo’s POV would help. I agree with Hal that if there’s a way to use Luke for haunting purposes, perhaps the closeup of his face in his duel with Kylo, that would be ideal.
Find a way to make Finn and Poe more gay and I’ll be happy with the movie.
Okay can somebody explain to me why people see romantic subtext between Finn and Poe? I caught on to Rey and Kylo in TLJ, but I never spotted anything for Finn and Poe.
Basically, this scene
It’s 100% that lip bite.
I feel like Oscar knew exactly what he was starting.
It’s frankly astounding that a Star Wars movie has failed so completely that the addition of Jar Jar would be an improvement.
Like, consider that.
Yeah it’s a pipe dream but didn’t someone rotoscope Jar jar outta TPM? Maybe it could be done with Finn. Keep the dynamic between Rey and Poe.
I read this as you wanting to replace Finn with Jar Jar in TROS.
I don’t see why the rest of Star Wars can’t be his deathbed fever dream.
Agreed, the new release is definitely the way to go for 3.0
Perhaps below we will find the real answer to the loss of Rey and Kylo’s power. Enjoy!
…
ACT III
The spires of the Jedi Temple still reach into the Coruscant night sky, illumined by the lights of workers far below in the city square. From the council chamber Hux, flanked by his royal guards and the eleven knights, surveys the work taking place thousands of feet below. The doors open and Thrawn steps into the chamber. A group of darkened figures moves behind him, and Thrawn bids them wait. Hux shows Thrawn the preparations for the ceremony where the Knights of Ren officially pledge loyalty to him, observed by all the planets in the galaxy.
Thrawn asks why he was summoned and Hux relates his odd experience on Gramelon. He says that he could have sworn that for a moment he saw the face of one Kylo Ren, but surely Thrawn made sure that the supreme leader was dead. Thrawn says that nobody could have survived the injuries sustained by his ‘accident’, but more than this he knows of a simple test to prove that Kylo Ren is no more. He suggests that the knights demonstrate their mastery of the Force in a simple act, say, raising up this fruit. He holds up a small piece of fruit before him, and stands at the very center of the council chamber floor. Surely the great Knights of Ren…Hux…could do such a thing. Hux sneers in derision, saying that Thrawn insults them. Thrawn then says for him to humor his hunch. Hux rolls his eyes and asks one of the knights to do this. The knight says that such party tricks are beneath them, but Hux’s suspicion is raised and he orders them on pain of death to obey and activates Luke’s green saber in warning. The knight raises his hand toward the fruit and closes his eyes, but after a full ten seconds he lowers his hand. Hux demands to know the meaning of this, and Thrawn goes to the window, eating the fruit.
He says that during his long exile in the unknown reaches, defeated by a boy trained as a Jedi, he was consumed by the question of how the Jedi and their powers came to be. He says that records exist from before the time of the Jedi and no such powers are there documented. He found it curious that, on a galactic timescale, the Jedi and the Sith arose in opposition to each other at exactly the same time on a mysterious island on a lonely planet in the unknown regions of space. When he retook Coruscant he searched the bowels of this temple as well as the palace of the Sith Emperor and found that the first Jedi was secretly a Sith, who was excommunicated along with one of his followers. He says that the powers of the Jedi arose in response to the Sith, who took this mystical power by force.
Hux responds that the last Sith was Palpatine, who died thirty years ago. Thrawn counters that if this were so, the Force would have returned to balance and the Jedi would be no more. That the power of the Jedi remained was proof that the Sith remained. He says that the Sith have gained immortality of a kind through transferring their collective spirit into a willing apprentice, and this has continued unbroken for a thousand generations. Some believe that the apprentice must strike down the master in hatred, but it is merely enough that the master has a willing apprentice filled with the dark side into which their spirit can enter.
‘Snoke, a secret apprentice?’, Hux says, understanding. Thrawn nods, adding that when Snoke was murdered the power of the Sith went into Kylo Ren. Snoke believed that by cultivating a number of apprentices for Ren that the legacy of the Sith would endure even in the event of Ren’s death, but it is clear that these knights are true students of the Jedi. Noble, even. A knight intones the name of Luke Skywalker and how his order has achieved victory merely by remaining passive, which is the true spirit of the Jedi.
Hux grimaces in disgust. He rounds on Thrawn, accusing him of orchestrating the Supreme Leader’s demise to further his own ends. Thrawn points out that it has given Hux control of the galaxy and the most noble Knights therein. Thrawn affirms that Kylo Ren cannot possibly have survived because after a thousand generations the Force has finally returned to balance. It exists again only as an impersonal energy field beyond the reach and manipulation of mortals.
Hux seems to age many years in a single moment. He turns back to the window, judging again the lights and activity below. He grips the saber tightly, as if he will fly into a rage like Kylo Ren, then relaxes his grip and stands straight, turning to the knights and Thrawn. He declares that there will still be a ceremony, but the knights will demonstrate their impotence in the Force for all to see and upon the steps of the Jedi temple they will bequeath to the First Order all control of their planets and people. Hux asks if Thrawn’s ships are in position, and Thrawn says that by the time of the ceremony tomorrow they will be. Hux then declares that tomorrow will be the first day of this new galaxy, more momentous than he could ever have hoped for. He asks if Thrawn has brought the traitor FN-2187 as requested and Thrawn nods. The doors open again and Finn is brought into the room. Hux turns the saber onto Finn, saying how long he has waited to do this. He lowers the saber almost unwillingly, musing that Finn’s public execution is his only fitting end.
Based on Anakin Starkiller’s suggestion in the sequel editing thread, here’s an EXTREMELY rough edit of Palpatine’s message added to the destruction of Kijimi:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qHcMW4tBjqptkFLAo86bjeb44R4vuZzi/view?usp=sharing
I think that it would be easier to extend the Emperor’s music across the entire scene rather than try to scrub the music from his speech.
A green look for Exegol would be easier to achieve since there’s at least some green in those backgrounds.
Yeah, I was pretty surprised that they actually went this route.
An orange tone might work better?
It certainly needs less red. Here’s something I came up with:
http://www.framecompare.com/image-compare/screenshotcomparison/9JB9MNNU
There is very little color information here, and almost no red in the backgrounds which required first using the channel mixer to add it back in. It’s easy to overdo, however, since things like the bloody bruise on Ben’s cheek should still read as separate from the skin tones, and those should be more red than the background.
If you couldn’t tell from the previous entry, we have well and truly entered the belly of the beast. Enjoy!
…
The rusted ship flies through hyperspace. Ben reports that they have just enough fuel left to make it to Tinis. Rey repeats this information to the green knight as she tends to her wound. She asks the knight’s name, she says it is Denya. Rey says that they will soon be able to get good help for her, but at that moment the ship falls out of hyperspace. Rey goes to the cockpit where she beholds that Tinis lies broken, the mantle of the planet seeping through great rents in the crust and out into space. They stare, and Ben asks what happened here. R2 burbles mournfully, and Rey says that this must be the doing of the First Order, or the Empire, or some evil war. It doesn’t really matter. R2’s maps of pirate space are decades out of date and the point is that they are out of fuel around a dead planet in pirate space.
Rey returns to the crew compartment and tries to apologize for leading Denya into such ruin, but she shakes her head and says that this was her choice. Her home of Higara is well worth dying for. Rey asks Denya what her home is like, and Denya responds that it is a lush, green planet of rolling hills and verdant fields where many things grow and seasons are mild. Rey says that she would like to see it someday. Denya says that if she doesn’t survive, its people will need a new protector. Rey admits that she has lost all her powers and can’t protect anyone, not even her. Denya says she knows, that this has been the fate of all the Knights of the Twelve Systems. She murmurs that the Force has prevailed even as she drifts into unconsciousness.
The ship drifts, life support failing, through the wastes of space.
But who on earth is going to figure that out from the film? Hrumph.
Perhaps all of their ships were captured by the Empire before the battle? Certainly the command ship was captured.
But I agree with you that a different group of aliens would have been preferable for the reason you state.
