NeverarGreat

Updated the previous entry to include a bit of scary dream. Let’s see what Maz has to say about all this:

…

They behold a room with a domed ceiling open to the stars. The gas giant and its moons hang above them. The room is richly furnished with the spoils of many plunderings and artifacts from across the galaxy. The bird flies to the domed ceiling where it perches on a realistically rendered metal sculpture of a fruit tree. The chest from Maz’s castle sits unobtrusively in a corner beside the bed clearly meant for a creature much larger than the current captain. A semicircular couch wraps around the lowered center of the room, and to this Maz goes to sit on a stack of pillows. She ushers them to the couch before her and they sit. She asks them if they would like refreshment and Rey shakes her head, but Ben nods that he’s actually quite thirsty. She rings a bell and a droid with three replacement limbs enters the room with a tray of drinks. Ben takes one and drains it without stopping. Maz sips daintily at hers. Rey asks what she will do with them. Maz lowers her drink, clearly not in a hurry to answer. Finally she speaks. ‘I have seen your eyes.’ She looks at both of them in turn, settling on Ben. She says that these eyes are not those of an evil man. She sees eyes that are changed, that see beyond this world. But, she cautions, she also sees the Sith. With this word Maz turns to Rey. Rey averts her eyes as if Maz were gazing into her soul. Ben frowns, looking to Rey as well.

Maz changes the subject somewhat. She says that she has felt what has been happening in the Force, this return to balance. She is reminded of such a time in her youth before the rise of the Jedi and the Sith. Rey stares. She asks how old Maz really is, and Maz demurs, tsk tsk’ing Rey for asking a woman her age. She continues that the Force has begun a return to balance after a thousand generations of the Sith, but this balance is not complete. She says that in Ben there remains a way for the spirit of the Sith to return. Ben says that perhaps it would be better if Rey had not brought him back, and Maz says that what’s done is done. There is a connection between the two of them, a symbiosis. What happens to one affects the other, the abilities of one become the abilities of both, and this can either be a terrible weakness or the greatest of strengths.

The serving droid enters the room again and informs Maz that the delegation has arrived. Maz says that this is the delegation from Higara. Rey makes as if to rise saying that she should be there, but Ben says that as the former master of the Knights of Ren he can give them a proper greeting. Maz agrees to this and Ben excuses himself.

With Ben gone, Maz focuses all her attention on Rey. She says that she sees true helplessness in Rey’s eyes and Rey breaks down before the wizened alien for the second time. Maz comes to the couch and sits beside her, laying a hand on her lap. Through her tears Rey says that Han, Luke, Leia, Denya, Chewie…they all died because of her. They all saw something in her that she no longer has. She has failed them. She has failed the galaxy. She pulls out the broken pieces of the saber, apologizing for breaking the heirloom that she gave to her. Maz says that the Force coming into balance is not to be mourned, but instead should be celebrated. Rey says that the victory of the First Order doesn’t feel like a victory at all. Maz informs her that Denya has survived. The group from Higara is simply here to take her home to recover.

Maz says that perhaps it’s time to tell Rey the story of Luke’s saber. She says that she’s always been able to find things thought lost, which is why Luke came to her before he founded his Jedi order. ‘He came to you?’ Rey asks. Maz nods, saying that she helped him find many artifacts of the Jedi through her centuries of contacts.

She says that Han Solo also helped her in the effort to find these artifacts. Based on a lead provided by an old friend, Han and Chewie went to investigate a family of scavengers who had found Luke’s saber on Bespin. They found the scavengers and eventually negotiated a price for the legendary weapon, but Han and Chewie had grown concerned at the treatment of the parent’s infant daughter. They were abusers in deep with unsavory people, and Han was so concerned for the child’s safety that they stayed for weeks trying to help the entire family. Eventually however, he realized that the family had no interest of changing their ways, and so was willing to let the man and his wife have the Falcon in exchange for the girl. They agreed, but at the last moment they absconded with ship, girl, money and saber, leaving Han and Chewie stranded. Solo tracked them to a man called Ducain, who said the parents pulled a similar con on him. After that the trail ran cold, and they went back emptyhanded. Chewie in particular was devastated by this loss.

Maz says that she tracked down the saber much later, after Luke’s new order had fallen apart, presumably sold to the highest bidder for drinking money. She was at first unsure that Rey was in fact the same girl from Bespin, and Han was adamant that this sort of luck just didn’t happen, but when the saber called out to Rey Maz was convinced, as was Leia when Maz told her. For, Maz reveals, it was the infant girl who found the saber on Bespin. Rey sits in amazement. She can’t believe that she knew Han and Chewie once upon a time, and Maz asks if Rey can understand Wookiee, a notoriously difficult language to simply pick up on one’s own. ‘Not a lot of Wookiees on Jakku’ she adds. She connects the two halves of the saber, saying that the saber is Rey’s by right. Maz continues that Han and Chewie didn’t die for the promise of Rey’s great power, but because of who she was as a person, a child who deserved better than what the galaxy had in store. Force or not, Rey always had family who cared for her, always searching the frequencies for the Falcon and the child.

Well, I suppose I’d better head out. It’s been fun, but I just can’t bring myself to contribute anymore.

Until tomorrow, anyway.

JEDIT: I’m back! Yay!

emanswfan said:

Funny how a Star Wars tv show is getting more behind-the-scenes material than one of the new movies. Go figure.

The Sequel Trilogy eventually needs a Lindsay Ellis style autopsy.

https://i.imgur.com/B3lBZTu.mp4

DominicCobb said:

Hal 9000 said:

We will complete the mission.

“If this mission fails, it was all for nothing. All we’ve done, all this time…”

Speaking of, are you going to play around with cutting the second (third?) instance of that line?

DuracellEnergizer said:

NeverarGreat said:

The great thing about the fireplace scene is Padme’s dominatrix dress.

FTFM

But this isn’t Episode 2: The Sleazebaggano Cut

I actually forgot this scene was edited partway through watching it, so I suppose that means it’s seamless. 😉

I have moved the Poe and BB-8 reunion down two scenes for structuring reasons. Otherwise things are unchanged.

…

The ship floats powerless in orbit around the desolate waste of Tinis. In the low oxygen of the lifeless ship Ben sits immobile beside the body of Denya. The light of a distant sun shining through the viewport and into the hold is all that illuminates them. From the cockpit R2 beeps sadly as he sends a pathetically weak distress signal into the void. His power source is the only thing powering the signal, and it’s fading.

Rey frantically digs through wires under the console beside R2, raging at her lack of any proper tools. Ben calls to Rey, tells her to conserve air. She shouts hoarsely back that they’ll die anyway if they can’t get the power back. Ben says that the fuel is gone, and there’s nothing else to be done. Rey cuts her hand on a panel trying to wrench it open and screams. She sits on the floor, blood oozing from her hand and from the unclosed wound on her forehead, struggling to draw breath. Ben says for her to just come into the hold and rest. She crawls past Denya’s corpse and onto the seat opposite Ben. She tells Ben that she’ll be back up in a minute, that she refuses to let them die here. Ben simply looks down at his father’s blaster on his lap, the only weapon they have left.

…

A battered Star Destroyer drifts in the blue and pink clouds of a nebula, its engines dead. From the socket of the reconnaissance ship, BB-8 whirrs and whistles as he takes in the battle damage. The ship docks in the back of the Destroyer’s bridge.

Repair crews shuffle through the halls, scuffing the floors with tubing and welding torches. Connix looks around the partially disassembled bridge and asks Threepio where Poe has gone. The droid points to Finn’s quarters but says that she may not want to enter. She goes anyway. Poe is sitting on the side of the bed, an unreadable expression on his face. She says that she has the final report of the battle. He doesn’t respond. She asks about the Falcon, and Poe answers tonelessly that its signal has been lost. Connix bows her head. She holds the report in her hands, and after a moment of hesitation she decides to place it on the desk next to the bed and leave. As she reaches the door BB-8 rolls into the room and leans his head against Poe’s legs. Connix closes the door on the pair and Poe completely breaks down, falling onto his knees and hugging BB-8 as if the droid is the last stable thing in the universe.

…

R2’s lights dim. He struggles to keep the signal on but he’s out of power. With a final whine he powers off and the last living part of the ship goes dark.

Rey shivers in the darkness, seeing R2 sitting dead. She and Ben are lying huddled together for warmth in the corner of the hold. Rey lifts her head, struggles to speak. She hoarsely utters the name ‘Leia’. Her eyes plead to the darkness around them. Ben opens his eyes, watching her levelly. She begs to Leia, to Luke, to anyone to listen. Ben finally speaks. He says it’s no use. A tear runs down Rey’s bloody face and she puts her head back down on the floor. Han’s blaster lies before them on the cold grating, a final and terrible choice.

Ben reaches out for it. Rey stays his hand. Ben chokes out that he shouldn’t be alive and doesn’t deserve to live regardless, after what he’s done. Rey should get the chance to live, for she is the hope of the galaxy. Rey can hardly speak. She finally whispers ‘Ben…you were right…’ Ben shakes his head. ‘No…the Force chose you.’ She turns to look at him. ‘The Force? It’s gone, Ben. It’s all gone. You ruled the galaxy, the knights of Ren, it’s your destiny to live. To survive.’ She pulls the blaster to her breast. ‘Chewie gave his life so you could live. You were right…I am nobody.’ They struggle with the blaster, Ben pleading with her not to do it, but she forces the handle out of Ben’s grasp and pulls the trigger.

Nothing happens. Ben smiles tiredly. ‘Safety’ he says, his thumb still on the side of the blaster. He wrenches it from her and it skitters across the floor to the other end of the compartment. ‘We’re even.’ Ben manages. Rey drops her head into his chest, heaving gasps which are less like sobs than a struggle for air.

They drift into unconsciousness. The compartment grows dark, a shape obscuring the distant sun. The small pirate vessel draws them into its docking bay in a clanking and grinding of metal. The hatch is forced open. Two pirates enter with pistols drawn, coming up short when they see the three bodies already on the floor. They look around, one announcing that there’s nothing here worth stealing with even the droid being over fifty years old. He suggests that they dump the whole ship for scrap. The other examines Kylo and says that this one is quite valuable owing to the bounty on his head. The first turns Rey’s face towards the light and asks whether they could get a price for this one as well, but the second pirate says she’s probably not worth saving, considering the scar.

…

Rey floats in the abyss of oblivion, images and sounds of her scavenger life gathering around her. Every abuse, every sleepless night seems to invade her mind. Helplessness, death, despair. She finds herself falling, finally landing on her side in the throne room of Snoke’s command ship. Ben stands there, looking as he did on the derelict ship. He turns, confused. He asks if this is a dream. Suddenly the voice of Snoke emanates from everywhere and nowhere, bidding him to join the Sith. The voice of Palpatine joins the two, entreating Ben to use his power. One after another, the Sith beckon to Ben, dozens, hundreds, a thousand. It rises to a deafening roar and Ben quails beneath the onslaught. Cloaked shapes converge on Ben, and Rey shouts at them to leave him alone. Their eyes turn to her as if beholding her for the first time. They move towards her. Rey turns in terror and begins to flee.

…

Rey comes to in the brig, bathed in sweat and shackled to Ben. The only other items in the cell are a couple of slicer keys and what looks like the remains of a hat. She shakes Ben into wakefulness and they take stock of their situation. Ben looks as haggard as Rey feels. They lock eyes, but quickly look away, remembering the dream.

They are both in irons. Ben says that based on the fact that they are in pirate space, this is most likely a pirate vessel on patrol. Rey deduces that it could be a Hutt ship based on the lingering smell of Gammorean on her clothing and the grimy nature of the cell. Rey goes to the bars and looks down the hall. Sure enough, one of the guards has remained. She yells at him to take them to the captain. He bangs on the bars in response to her shouts, grunting in a language Rey doesn’t understand.

A group of spikily clad figures approaches from down the hall, opening the door and dragging the prisoners out. She asks if they are going to see the captain, and a particularly spiky alien spokesman replies that they are, and that the so-called Supreme Leader will pay for his crimes. They are taken into a large hallway with many branching corridors and crew milling around and they see that this must be a massive pirate vessel.

The two prisoners are taken to the bridge where a panoramic view of a gas giant appears out of the viewscreen before them. In the center of this cavernous space a throne sits adorned with the bones of many alien and human victims. The throne faces away from them, but they are thrown down on the floor behind it. Ben asks what crimes the First Order has committed against these pirates, and the spokesman says that they are multitudinous. From ordering the harvest of innocent planets, slaughtering pilgrims of the Force, destroying and occupying the free worlds of the galaxy, and most importantly, of destroying the captain’s castle in an act of wanton barbarity. Ben looks confused, trying to recall when that might have been. Rey is quicker on the draw. ‘Maz!’ She almost shouts in relief. The chair swivels to reveal the wizened alien smiling wryly amid the carnage of her bloody decorations.

By Maz’s side is a fierce avian creature much like an oversized hawk, except with too many eyes. It stares the duo down and shrieks with displeasure. Maz pets it, and oddly enough it purrs. She motions them forward. She asks what her boyfriend is up to, and Rey starts ‘Chewie…’ She falls silent, unable to say it. Ben takes up her statement ‘He’s gone.’ Maz looks grieved. Rey says that he sacrificed himself to save Ben from the First Order. Maz says that she has known Chewbacca for over a hundred years and says that Ben must be special indeed to give his life. She says that this changes her pronouncement. Maz tells the duo to kneel before her, and they obey. She gazes levelly into Ben’s eyes, and then into Rey’s. She stands on the seat of the throne and bids the duo to follow her. The bird follows her first, and then the two prisoners. They make their way down the main hall and into the captain’s quarters.

Rodents of Ordinary Size.

I think they exist.

Even in a single country you can find quite a few people to follow a kook with delusions of grandeur. In a galaxy you can probably wrangle a whole planet of these people. I feel like that’s most of the Sith cult in ROS, just gullible idiots who build a fleet of ships from outdated blueprints altered to introduce a fatal flaw in their design and without the ability to fly up.

The great thing about the fireplace scene is that it can be removed without any fuss. The absolute worst scenes are ones that sit there, essential and immovable (without a lot of editing anyway), making everything else worse by their crappy presence.

StarkillerAG said:

If I had to decide the worst scene of every movie, I would say:

TROS: “You are a Palpatine”

I can’t decide which moment is the worst out of all of them.

I can.

OutboundFlight said:

StarkillerAG said:

Broom Kid said:

idir_hh said:

So they used two takes of the same scene back to back.
I’m amazed
…and insulted.

Lucas/Chew/Hirsch did the same thing more than a few times in 1977, IIRC.

I don’t think it’s insulting really. It’s just editing. The whole thing is a trick. Some tricks are better than others.

That there’s a big Zapruder-like YouTube video “exposing” it seems odd, to me. “They’re trying to fool you, but we see through their attempts!” Of course they’re trying to fool you. They’re filmmakers.

Yeah, I’ve never liked the Plinkett-style videos that take a thousand nitpicks and pass it off as “objective criticism”. It just seems like reaching to get as much criticism as possible, and by extension make the movies seem as bad as possible. If you applied the same style of criticism to the OT, those movies would seem like the worst movies of all time. I was just pointing out that I noticed this editing quirk before, I wasn’t saying I have a problem with it.

I’d love to see a parody Plinkett video on why Empire Strikes Back is an objectively bad movie.

I feel like I watched a video with this premise, but a quick Youtube search doesn’t give any decent results.

Wexter said:

I haven’t seen this mentioned anywhere on this site, but this video provides an excellent analysis of TROS creating a new scene from outtakes of another scene: https://youtu.be/ECnectUdeOo?t=122

The creative process behind this is certainly interesting. Puzzling, but interesting.

Fascinating.

Thanks! I was kinda wondering if anyone at all was still reading it actually, but it’s nice to know you’re still here RL. 😃

I had edited the Thrawn scene yesterday to go the ‘Sith collective consciousness’ route instead of the ‘Skywalkers as Sith Legacy’ because the former feels more simple and in line with TROS, as well as having more potential for drama with Kylo and the knights. The death of the green knight has also been edited to more clearly reflect this.

Also, personal note for a future edit: Introduce ZE-7 when the Falcon first arrives at Gramelon as a guide to the castle.

Eh, you can’t convince me it would have been worse than what we actually got.

Well Force need not be a strictly Star Wars term and short evocative terms like Jedi and Sith have a certain mystique, but I see your point with the Mandalorian.

Exactly. It’s very much cumulative when seen all at once.

ZkinandBonez said:

This video sums up pretty well why I really love the Dark Empire comics and why so many people hate it. It’s a fun story that stretched the rules a little to allow a dead character to return so that we could further explore a set of ideas only touched upon in ROTJ, and I’ve always found it a little frustrating that the old EU, once it settled and hardened, never really dared to do something like it again.

I also find it funny that SW has ended up with some of the most nitpicky fans as it’s not really a franchise that ever seemed to care that much about the finer details to begin with. I can see why something like Star Trek need to adhere to more rules since it’s much harder sci-fi, but ironically they’ve always played very loose with the smaller details, sometimes even contradicting things within the same series.

The only time I’m really frustrated by a change or alteration on lore is when it breaks narrative cohesion or blatantly contradicts something important like how a character has always behaved or the overall theme of a series (though even these can be vague and highly subjective).

One reason the fans are so ‘nitpicky’ might be because Star Wars is famous for caring little for consistent canon and handwaving its details. Because of this, any current creator of Star Wars will feel (perhaps rightly) that the details don’t matter and everything is in service of adding drama to a story, dragging Star Wars ever further away from a sense of verisimilitude across stories. So now a fan who was okay with the moderate level of canon fragmentation during the OT may feel that the current level of extreme fragmentation is too much, and become a ‘nitpicky fan’.

This is all theoretical of course 😉

Tantive3+1 said:

In TESB after Luke leaves Dagobah and Obi-wan says “That boy is our last hope” and then Yoda says “No, there is another._.”, was he simply reminding Obi-wan about Leia? Or did Obi-wan not know about her being Lukes sister until ROTJ?

Real answer is that Leia wasn’t Luke’s sister until Georgie boy retconned it ROTJ.

Canonical answer is that Obi-wan kinda forgot about Leia being Luke’s sister after Episode 3.

My answer is that Obi-wan just didn’t know Luke had a sister, for whatever reason. Disregard Prequel Nonsense.

Rey’s vision feels absolutely perfect, better than the original for sure.

Kylo’s vision veers a bit into fanedit territory for me, mainly due to reusing so many shots from TLJ. Perhaps removing some of the shots that are clearly not from Kylo’s POV would help. I agree with Hal that if there’s a way to use Luke for haunting purposes, perhaps the closeup of his face in his duel with Kylo, that would be ideal.

DominicCobb said:

Anakin Starkiller said:

snooker said:

Find a way to make Finn and Poe more gay and I’ll be happy with the movie.

Okay can somebody explain to me why people see romantic subtext between Finn and Poe? I caught on to Rey and Kylo in TLJ, but I never spotted anything for Finn and Poe.

Basically, this scene

It’s 100% that lip bite.

I feel like Oscar knew exactly what he was starting.

It’s frankly astounding that a Star Wars movie has failed so completely that the addition of Jar Jar would be an improvement.

Like, consider that.

idir_hh said:

Yeah it’s a pipe dream but didn’t someone rotoscope Jar jar outta TPM? Maybe it could be done with Finn. Keep the dynamic between Rey and Poe.

I read this as you wanting to replace Finn with Jar Jar in TROS.