NeverarGreat

It is established in the EU that the X-wings were cutting edge, while the Y-wings were older ships. Though I think it would make more sense if they were both older models, it doesn't make much difference either way. The point is made that there are probably more ships than pilots.

In the radio drama, Luke does a bang up job in the flight simulator and Red Leader recognizes this. It's not the best explanation, but it's probably the best retcon that can be made here. In fact the scene where Red Leader questions Luke's ability to fly the X-wing makes this explanation rather awkward, so let's forget about the Special Editions for right now.

DominicCobb said:

Bingowings said:

 

It would also have kept ESB's reveals secret.

I know that's not important to some people but the PT weren't actually sold as 'prequels' but earlier episodes.

 

I've been vocal about my disagreement with this line of thinking. I've been ignoring these types of comments because, honestly, people aren't going to change their minds. But I just don't see how that statement is true.

Granted, I was born only a few years before TPM was released, so I'm not aware of what sort of things were being said about the prequels during that 16 year gap. What I do know is that each PT film was advertised using as much Vader imagery as possible, i.e. they were sold as prequels. I remember that awesome poster of Anakin with Vader as his shadow; and I'm sure you all do too, it's probably the thing that got your excitement up most. What that ad promised was a prequel. A prequel trilogy was promised to us. Call me crazy, but I thought the whole reason we wanted to see those movies was to find out what happened before. I don't know about you guys, but the prospect of finding out how Anakin became Darth Vader was the single most exciting aspect of those upcoming prequels. People have said on here that ROTS was a fan wank because they showed Anakin turn to the dark side and don the suit. In my mind, it would have been a fan wank if we didn't see that happen.

But I digress. Where are we? "ROTJ is the best Star Wars film"? What? You guys are crazy, I'm out of here. 

I didn't care about story when I first saw Episode 1. It was simply a new Star Wars movie, and an expansion of the Star Wars universe. That was the draw for me as a young teen, not the story of Darth Vader. I already knew that he began as Anakin Skywalker, a hero and the greatest pilot in the galaxy. I didn't need to be shown that stuff or his turn to the Dark Side to be interested in the movies. The reason I lost interest after Episode 2 was because the universe and story seemed so poorly constructed that it couldn't exist alongside the originals, or even Episode 1. If they had just told an original non-Anakin story and made the movie with the same effort that Episode 1 was created with, I would have been happy. I think you only do damage when you tread on people's imaginations.

True. But the color shifts shot to shot in Star Wars, though there is a tendency towards one or two colors. Knowing what something is supposed to look like in real life will tell you which color is the correct one, and which still needs correction. Of course it's tricky to change one color while keeping the correct color about the same, but it's not impossible.

Hm. Good to know. I really only know Photoshop and Premiere (and a bit of Vegas) when it comes to video editing.

So is this how the collaboration aspect of projects such as Despecialized work? Someone sends the settings, another person uses these as a base for more scene specific work?

Gogogadget said:

That Senator cap looks terrible, there is barely any detail on the buildings in the background, the whites are far too blown out.

The Senator photos are almost certainly too bright most of the time. However I'd say they are far closer in luminosity to the original than the DVD/Blu-ray, and even the GOUT. My purpose was to show that some of the shots in Despecialized are still too dark, with highlights that are still too green. Take a look at the cup in the foreground - in other shots, that cup is white and even blue, as well as in the Senator photo. But as far as anyone knows, the cup is supposed to be white:

As long as it's green, the correction isn't entirely correct. And it is a small detail, but color correction demands attention to such details, for they often lead to uncovering systemic issues, such as the green highlights or the blue and pink tones throughout the movie. I believe that addressing these on a global basis is the best way to deal with the problem, for they are often global changes and aren't limited to a single shot or scene.

I've never worked with Avisynth before, but shouldn't that program have all the functionality of Premiere?

A few Google searches pulled up this:

http://neuron2.net/www.math.berkeley.edu/benrg/avisynth-premiere.html

So if I understand it correctly, you could use Premiere as the editing program, and output in Avisynth. I think?

Well this is an active thread, three posts while I wrote mine.

I agree that racing through the exploding Death Star was probably the most exhilarating thing in any Star Wars movie hands down. The effects in this movie are what every Star Wars movie is judged by in my book.

Ryan McAvoy said:

Okay here are some unarguable facts about ROTJ...

- It has the best freaky alien creatures: Jabba, Bib, Ackbar, Salicious, Nunb etc. Nothing in the Cantina comes close and the Wampa was so bad it couldn't even be shown. The best ESB could muster is a blatant sock puppet in a hole.

- It's got the best use of the Falcon. Without the Falcon kickin' ass as the Rebel lead fighter in the battle of Endor it wouldn't be half as iconic. The camera work on the Falcon in ESB pales next to Jedi and the Falcon in ANH barely moves.

- It's got the most 'scale' of the three. Epic locations, epic battles and a huge cast of diverse background characters.

There are other points I'd be tempted to make, such as it has the best pacing but I'll admit that that could be argued against. F*ck it! It does! The opening to ANH is painfully slow and ESB is very static in the middle (Asteroid interlude while Luke is jogging round a swamp). Jedi's pace never lets up! xD

As I said (Apart from the last one) the above points are unarguable facts but let the argueing commence anyway...

I'll argue with these points...

-ESB has Yoda. This is one of the best characters in Star Wars, and he's a freaky alien creature. This is far better than the "blatant sock puppet in a hole".

-The Falcon flies around in ROTJ quite a bit, but we never see the interior like we did before, and when we do it looks more lifeless than it did in ESB. I remember hearing somewhere (perhaps here!) that the scene where the Falcon escapes from Hoth makes this ship into a real character, and this scene has two of my favorite aspects of this ship in it: the hidden machine gun, and its propensity to power failure unless given a well-aimed punch. In ROTJ it's relegated to merely a spaceship again instead of a character.

-It's been addressed, but ROTJ doesn't have the best locations. It just doesn't. Battles and characters perhaps, but not new locations.

-Yeah, not going to get into this one.

You_Too said:

I do still have that script but it's way outdated. I mean, if I were to re-do it today I might have tried to find some kind of better solution to the oversaturated magenta parts. (like laser flashes)

And I also remember I did two versions for Harmy, one for the whole film and one for only the Death Star battle where I removed the dark blue in the shadow detail.

I'm thinking that there should be a new version of Despecialized at some point, because some scenes could definitely stand another attempt. I've figured out how to neutralize most of the pink flashes and dark blue bleeding with a single set of global settings, and I'm pretty sure it will work with the Blu-ray as well.

Compared to the Senator technicolor print, Despecialized has a ways to go in my opinion.

See my thread on correcting the DVD for more info about my ideas about solving these issues.

But Despecialized 2.5 overall is so much better than the Blu-ray, it needs to be seen in whatever case.

I've been fiddling with the settings yet again, and I've gotten substantial amounts of blue into the highlights while keeping it out of the shadows, so the above screenshots are not much changed.

I don't think that I can make a greater global change to this red without killing the skin tones, so I'm happy with this level of red. At least most of the purple is gone.

The red bleed is practically gone. (look up at the screen from a low angle to see what I mean)

Note in particular the blue in the lower right corner on the wall, and the greenish highlights on the armor.

There is now some blue bleed in the highlights of this frame, something which appeared to a greater extent on the Senator photo. I've tried to go for a more subdued effect here.

Again, the entire movie uses the same settings. I'm tempted to correct scene by scene, but where's the challenge in that?

I was just watching through ROTJ the other day, and I was trying to imagine Star Wars without it. It's not possible. Not for me. Imagine, if you will, Star Wars without a battle between capital ships, without the construction of a lightsaber, without ever really meeting the Emperor, without C-3PO translating a non-robot language (yes, this is the only movie where he is genuinely useful!).

Bingowings said:

ANH Message : No matter how exotic human civilization becomes, no matter the developments of life and society nor the complexity of the machine/human interface, there always come interludes of lonely power when the course of humankind, depends upon the relatively simple actions of single individuals.(Ben gives up his life so the Falcon can leave. Artoo carries the plans to the rebels, the one man fighter finds the small exhaust port and destroys the metal moon and it's planet smashing weapon, Han changes his mind and saves Luke.).

ESB message : Fear is the mindkiller. Fear motivates almost every major action in the piece. It leads the characters into peril and overcoming it leads them back to safety.

ROTJ message : There is probably no more terrible instance of enlightenment than the one in which you discover your father is a man — with human flesh.

I agree with your ANH analysis, and fear does play a big part in ESB. But really, the "father is mortal" message of ROTJ doesn't take into account most of the actions in the movie.

The rebels underestimate the Empire's new battle station, the Imperials underestimate the Ewoks, both Jabba and the Emperor underestimate Luke's power, and Vader underestimates his own good side. This theme seems to be played again and again.

Absolutely agree about Vertigo being far better than The Birds. I actually didn't think much of Hitchcock until I saw Vertigo.

Based on your reviews, I just saw Zardoz. I can't say it was the strangest movie I've ever seen. That honor may go to The American Astronaut. But it was still really interesting, conceptually.

By the Way, The American Astronaut is both the worst thing ever and the best, then the worst, and the best, in that order.

VII Faster Then A Ray of Light

VIII Faster Than A Ray of Light

IX Faster Than A Ray of Lighiiiayiiiayiiiayiiiiiiight!

VII I Get Knocked Down

VIII But I Get Up Again

IX You're Never Gonna Keep Me Down

Which Star Wars movie has the best message? In my opinion, the central messages are thus:

The first one has the message that if you use your innate talents, you can singlehandedly defeat Empires. "Use the Force, Luke."

Empire states that in order to do something, you must commit yourself completely to its completion, forsaking even your friends, instead of simply "giving it a shot". "Do. Or do not. There is no try."

Jedi communicates the idea that a you are great not only because of what you have done and what you are, but because of what others have allowed you to do, and to be. "I am a Jedi, like my father before me."

So to me, the message of the first movie is rather unrealistic. It is Luke alone who destroys the Death Star, and this point is made by having everyone abandon him in his final test, except for Obi-wan, though it is implied that in the end, Luke uses the Force without Obi-wan's help. Empire as well has the message that to accomplish your dreams, you must abandon your friends and strike out on your own. It is Jedi that provides the message that all people, no matter how humble or broken, can help in toppling empires, and it is this message that I think is the most important of all.

So on the basis of message, Return of the Jedi is the best Star Wars film.

imperialscum said:

Hoth-Nudist said:

2)  make final assault on Imperial city instead of DSII

I am afraid that would make it dumb, cheap and very "ordinary".

Wasn't one of the reasons they didn't do the Imperial Capital world was because it would have been too expensive?

I think the Death Star 2 would have worked much better if it was demonstrably more powerful than the first one and more difficult to destroy. You know, like the people building it learned their lesson from the first one, and made it so that only a direct, large scale assault could take it down. I'm thinking something along the lines of Dodana's first plan for destroying the original Death Star by ramming capital ships into it.

Alternately, They could have Luke decide to sneak onboard the Death Star and make his way to whatever room constituted a "bridge", where he would meet Darth Vader, who was promoted after Tarkin's Death. It turns out that Vader was serious in his plot against the Emperor, and now he is finally in position to end the Emperor's reign of terror. He takes control of the Death Star and sets it on course for the Imperial Capital planet, and Luke must decide whether to kill Vader, attempt to turn him from the Dark Side, or simply allow Vader to annihilate an entire planet in order to destroy the Emperor.

Star Wars: JJ Abrams Edition:

Episode VII: I Worked Really Hard On This

Episode VIII: Just Give It Another Chance

Episode IX: DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH I SACRIFICED?!

Star Wars: Disney Edition:

Episode VII: The Magic Jedi Kingdom

Episode VIII: Return to Netherworld

Episode IX: It's A Small Galaxy After All

Well, our species is called Homo sapiens sapiens, which means "Thinking man that thinks", so to answer your question, no, we don't think.

I guess that's what happens when you privatize cultural heritage.

That last sample where the Destroyer crashes into the Death Star is really nice. I did a double take when I saw that effect, because it actually looks way more realistic than the DVD. I think that the brightness of the DVD is so low that you can see fire effect rippling unrealistically quickly out of the Death Star, but here it just looks like a mushroom cloud, and just looks much more realistic.

If we're choosing the title based on the acronym, then it should be called Supreme Emperor Xizor.

I agree wholeheartedly with Anchorhead's post about our generation being socially immature. The internet is the blessing, and the curse, that our generation has been given.

On the subject of nostalgia, I believe that this forum wouldn't exist if the original Star Wars movies were available in high quality. There's something about not being able to instantly access our nostalgia that rubs our generation the wrong way, and many of us stay here because of nostalgia withheld. If the OUT ever becomes available, it may be the death of this place.

Finally, about Anchorhead's comment about writing a book at 18:

After, and even during high school I felt the opposite way about the accomplishments in my life. I felt like I had not even scratched the surface of all that there was. My life was in upheaval, and I was revising every deeply held belief I ever held. In such a situation, how can someone express themselves if they don't even know who they are? What good is the word of a kid who knows nothing of the real world? This outlook is rather unfortunate, because before that I had written a novel in my spare time, not ever planning to publish it, for it wasn't worthy of publishing. But that wasn't the point. It is in actually doing something that power lies, and that's something that our generation has forgotten to some degree.

So yeah, feel that nostalgia for this revived thread!

,.,,,.,,.

^Did somebody lose some punctuation? Because I found this lying around...