NeverarGreat

snooker said:

It’s very very hard to cut around Han in Jedi. Believe me, I’ve tried. He does a lot of the action and has a lot of the exposition.

I remember toying around with having Han getting saved AFTER the Battle of Endor, but it messed with the flow too much.

Yeah, I don’t think it’s possible to make the Endor scenes work without Han. What do you think of the condensed idea, where the Shield Generator subplot is dropped entirely?

Yeah, the video transfers of Star Wars have a very distinctive look that isn’t like the film prints.

theMaestro said:

Does NeverarGreat’s version match to a digitized IB Tech print or to a projected IB Tech print?

Digitized. I don’t have access to a film projector, unfortunately.

However, since the grade is very precisely matched to representative digital frames and balanced scene by scene, it would still be a far better place to start than the uneven blu-ray, and get you a lot closer to the look of the Tech. If someone had access to a print and a projector and wanted to correct it fully to what they saw, it would probably only take a single LUT. Dre was trying to do something like this if I recall, putting his custom LUT’s on my project.

You could combine ESB and ROTJ:

It is a dark time for the
Rebellion. Although the
Death Star has been all but
destroyed, the Rebellion is
scattered to the far reaches
of the galaxy by the dreaded
Imperial Starfleet.

Guided by the voice of
his master, Luke Skywalker
journeys in search of Yoda,
a warrior with the power
to defeat the Emperor and
his sinister agents.

With the Starfleet deployed
against Skywalker and his
friends, Darth Vader awaits
the arrival of his dark
master aboard the Empire’s
ultimate weapon…

-Open with the Emperor arriving on the Death Star, where they talk of Vader resuming his search for Skywalker. Omit talk of Luke getting stronger. Cut to establishing shot of Emperor’s tower, and Vader asking of the reports of the Rebel fleet massing near Sullust. The Emperor dismisses this talk and tells Vader to go to the command ship.
-Luke arrives on Dagobah, and meets Yoda.
-Establish Hoth, and Han deciding to leave. They discover the Probe droid and destroy it.
-On board the Command Ship, the Imperials find the Rebel Base. Vader doesn’t suggest that Luke is there.
-The Rebels evacuate the base under duress, without Luke’s presence (This incidentally avoids the issue of Luke escaping with ease while his friends are chased).
-The asteroid chase is cut, going straight into docking on the Star Destroyer bridge. There is no Emperor hologram, since he’s already been established.
-Luke trains, fails, etc etc.
-Much is the same until the Carbonite, where Han dies.
-Shortened fight with Vader, leading to the revelation and the end of Act 2.
-There is a single establishing shot of Yoda’s hut, and a robed figure materializes out of the mist in front of it, making its way forward as darkness surrounds the hut.
-Vader returns to the Death Star, using the scene from the beginning of ROTJ, shortened to simply that Vader will motivate the workers.
-Luke returns to Dagobah to find Yoda already in bed and at death’s door. He admits that Vader is the father, then insists that Luke not underestimate the powers of the Emperor. Luke’s sister is not mentioned.
-The fleet is assembled, and Mothma explains the attack. Han is not present, and it is edited to make it seem like Leia is joining Lando’s attack force. Luke joins as well. They take off in the shuttle.
-The landing and speeder chase happen, sans Han. Leia meets the Ewoks, who recognize her from the Rebel base previously on the planet.
-There is no roasting of Luke and Chewie, instead 3-PO tells the story and they are admitted to the tribe, then Luke and Leia discuss Luke’s parentage. Luke turns himself in.
-The ending happens pretty much the same, except without Han.

There could be a short version of this, however:

-Emperor’s arrival on the Death Star
-Events of ESB as described above, except that Luke allows himself to be taken prisoner by Vader after the revelation.
-Leia and Lando escape with the help of R2.
-Closeups of Luke in the Bacta tank, colored with an evil red light signifying Vader’s dark purposes for him.
-Vader returns to the Death Star to much fanfare, cutting right to Vader and Luke in the elevator to the tower. Vader hands a lightsaber to the Emperor, but this is Obi-wan’s blue lightsaber, not Luke’s. Luke says that he’ll soon be dead, and the Emperor suspects that there is an imminent attack, which then emerges from hyperspace.
-The shield around the station is generated from within. As the Imperial fleet engages the Rebels, the Emperor orders the station to fire, destroying a capital ship.
-As the ships keep going down, Luke becomes more and more angry, until he attacks the Emperor. They fight and then Luke disengages, going into hiding.
-Vader reads Luke’s thoughts, saying ‘Your feelings for them are strong, especially for…’ (We see an image of Leia, and the exact Rebel ship which holds her. ‘…so, your feelings have now betrayed her too.’ Luke snaps, cutting of Vader’s hand. He then realizes what he has done, looking at the hand that Vader bequeathed him, which in this version is cold, metallic, and lifeless.
-Ackbar orders the Command Ship be brought down. When it crashes into the station, it does enough damage to shut down the shield protecting the station. The fighters go in.
-Vader is redeemed, the Emperor defeated, Luke escapes, the station explodes for good, and Luke takes Vader into the forest on Yavin 4 for a proper funeral.
-The final scene is from ESB, where Luke gets a more human hand and Lando leaves in the Falcon, now truly redeemed by his heroic acts. He could even be searching for Han, if it is decided that he doesn’t die in Carbonite.

It makes sense that this reel looks so yellow, considering that the SE was timed to the Tech print in George’s possession and the Tech prints look very yellow here as well.

It’s well established by this point that no archival project can eclipse oojason’s patience.

darkspire17 said:

Going to take a gues this is footage from the battle for endor, mixed into ROTJ

Quality sleuthing, Holmes.

RogueLeader said:

Hmm, I think this is a good compromise. Because narratively, it is a good character choice to have Kylo reveal reveal his face to Rey, and I don’t think it is really worth losing for just saving the reveal. While we don’t really get a good look at him here, Rey does at least so it maintains that relationship building technically, while still saving a clearer reveal for the Solo confrontation.

That was my intention, sort of to have the cake and eat it too. Later in the scene, where there are more closeups of Kylo, I’m planning some Force vision stuff which could replace those shots.

EDIT: Also meant to say I did like your village edit too. While I don’t personally mind Poe’s dialogue, since I think it endeared him to the audience immediately, it is a really cool idea displaying Kylo’s mind reading abilities early on in that way. I kinda think Poe shooting Kylo feels a little quick, maybe I’m just used to it, but I get the logic of him trying to go for the kill when he has the chance. I think music-wise I don’t like losing some of the strings immediately when Kylo freezes the laser, which is now overpowered by the fading trumpets.

Glad you liked it! Definitely the most jarring thing with this change is Poe’s immediate attack and Kylo’s sudden lightsaber activation for a single shot. There doesn’t seem to be a way to fix that however, unless I cut to a shot of Tekka being led by the troopers or something. The music was all very rough and spur-of-the-moment in editing, so any ‘official’ edit would attempt to weave the music together more coherently.

The reason I won’t be using this idea in the final movie actually has to do with Finn. In the original edit, the massacre brought the focus of the scene back to Finn and his dilemma, whereas in this edit the focus always stays with Kylo, and Finn becomes more of a background character.

And like I have mentioned on Hal’s TFA thread before, I think it would be nice if you could crop the shot where Kylo pauses right before killing Lor San Tekka, since it seems like his saber is on even before we hear it activate.

That’s a good idea.

I’ve experimented with the lighting of the interrogation scene before, but this time it serves a more practical purpose:

https://vimeo.com/298092270
Password: fanedit

Digmod has attempted to preserve the Kylo reveal by keeping the mask on in this scene, but it might be more simple and effective to have Kylo be in perpetual darkness here with this selective lighting and some cutting around Kylo’s closeups.

LordZerome1080 said:

If they do take a five year break they should get rid of Kathleen, restore majority of the EU, promote Pablo as creative director, redo the prequels and restore and release the OUT. If anyone has a problem with this please pm me instead of derailing the thread.

Why would you think the guy in charge of this should be creative director?

Not trying to be negative, just honestly perplexed as to why people seem to think he’s the new visionary leader of Star Wars.

A restructure of the village scene, a what-if not intended for inclusion in the final edit:

https://vimeo.com/297185306
Password: fanedit

Jumping backwards again, I’ve never been a fan of the glitchy Stormtrooper reveal at the beginning of the movie.

Here’s a look at the opening shot without the Stormtroopers, with the score replaced with ambience and an alternate composition for the scene:

https://vimeo.com/297109785
Password: fanedit

JEDIT: What if there was no music at all until BB-8 rolled into frame?
JEDIT2: Video reuploaded, now with cleaned music track.

It’s funny, I thought that it was supposed to be the same pilot in both films, with Rian just forgetting that he did in fact die in TFA.

I like that idea. His dubbing feels a bit out of place anyway, in the kind of goofy exaggeration that JJ seems to like.

The trench run is definitely unfortunate, but it might be a case of cutting all of it or none, due to how it’s held together with the music. I have some ambitious ideas for this part of the movie right now, but I’m going to see if they are at all feasible before saying anything else…

moviefreakedmind said:

I’ve found that over the last year or two the RedLetterMedia people piss me off more and more. I think it has to do with the disgusting worship that a lot of their fans have for their opinions, but I also think that it has something to do with the way they pretend to be these common folk that aren’t pretentious (which is a quality they claim to hate) but their commentary is some of most pretentious that I’ve ever seen. Just because they put it forth in a vulgar and casual way doesn’t make it less so. And I know I shouldn’t be talking because I think I’m right about everything and I think almost everyone that disagrees with me is wrong and stupid, but I admit it. I say all this as someone that used to be a die-hard RLM fan.

Jay has always been somewhat snobbish, which has only gotten more severe over the years. I don’t know if that is exactly equivalent to pretentiousness though.

Mike however is not at all pretentious IMO. If anything, he comes across to me as self-deprecating. Maybe you will say this is his ‘common folk’ persona hiding his true pretentiousness, but whatever.

With the ability to edit again, I’m jumping around rather haphazardly and playing with a bunch of ideas. One of them is to remove the alien subtitles from the Rathtar scene, since Bala-Tik already says the important bits. Instead, I would like to add subtitles first to the alien pirates in Maz’s castle, but also to Teedo’s scene near the beginning of the movie to help flesh out the world:

https://vimeo.com/296737963
Password: fanedit

Just like with the crawl, I’ve tried to accomplish a lot with a small bit of text. For example, Rey opens with a declarative statement which conforms to the structure of the classic mind trick, which shows that she is well aware of how this power was used. Placing this scene right before Kylo’s interrogation of Poe illustrates how much stronger Kylo is at this point in the movie than Rey. That Rey believes BB-8 is a person due to Jedi legend shows how much Luke Skywalker in particular had to do with reshaping the Jedi image in the past 30 years, and gives his character power and influence right out of the gate. Similarly, Rey so easily falling back on Jedi legend shows her to be sort of a religious devotee, which fits with her superiority and isolation from other people. Finally, Teedo’s denigration of the Jedi as a superstition shows how much Luke as a physical presence is needed in the galaxy.

JEDIT: After giving it some thought, it’s too much too fast. Here’s a stripped down version that just focuses on Rey’s attempt at a mind trick or two, which connects to the Unkar Plutt subplot:

https://vimeo.com/296788907
Password: fanedit

RogueLeader said:

Damn, nice job. Did you take that part of Rey from the other shot. If you do go back and add the footsteps I probably would add the rolling sound of BB-8 entering the room as well since he is suddenly there as well.

Yes, that bit of Rey is from the other shot. She’s passing in front of the green Falcon lights in that one, so the masking isn’t great, but it might be good enough for a brief bit of movement at the end of the shot.

It’s funny your brother said that, because at first I thought it was weird that it went from the shot of Han passing BB-8 to Han already next to Chewie and I wondered if that was a new cut, but that’s how it is in the theatrical version as well!

I am pretty sure that these cuts are due to much of the movie being left on the cutting room floor to make it fit the two hour mark.

And yeah, at the very least I would reinsert Finn breaking eye contact if you could. It’s a subtle clue to Han that he’s lying about something, which at the very least is enough to explain what Han says to Finn later on.

Yep, it’s going to go back in.

It does serve this purpose for sure. Though I think that we could assume Han would see through Finn’s act regardless, and I kind of like that Han might go on nothing more than his instinct rather than on a cartoonish incompetence that is IMO too much a part of Finn’s characterization.

As for Rey simply appearing in scene, I agree that it’s still too abrupt, and actually made a version 3 the other day before calling it quits:

https://vimeo.com/296396694
Password: Fanedit

Rey now appears briefly entering the room. Added footsteps would be a good idea.

I had shown the previous versions to my brother, who doesn’t care for this movie anyway, and he pointed out that the movie feels cut to pieces in this scene even before any edit, so I tried to consolidate and lengthen shots to give it more substance. That is why Finn’s reaction shot is absent, with Han’s shots on either side stitched together. I tend to agree with you that this reaction shot is necessary however, so the deletion will probably remain just a proof of concept.

Wouldn’t it have been interesting if Qui-Gon was revealed to be Anakin’s father in Episode 1 at the end of the movie like this?

It might even be possible with the footage available. Just cut the conversation about Anakin’s parentage with Shmi, Qui-Gon’s bewilderment about the boy, the midichlorian test. Make it so that going to Tatooine is purely Qui-Gon’s idea, and edit the dinner scene to include a meaningful glance or two between Qui-Gon and Shmi.

This would also work going forward. Anakin’s love for Padme is a mirror of his father’s secret relationship with Shmi, as well as his dream of freeing the slaves. That he can suddenly become a Force ghost at the end of ROTJ is similarly explained since his father also discovered the ability on his own and presumably after his death.

Another mockup, this one more complete and aiming to remove the game board distraction from the Falcon:

https://vimeo.com/296208376
Password: fanedit

The biggest issue for me is that Rey sort of comes out of nowhere, so I made another version which attempts to retain some of the comedy they were going for in the scene (and give Rey some sass):

https://vimeo.com/296208409
Password: fanedit

So is the sass worth it?

Collipso made the mistake of thinking that this forum is a democracy. It isn’t, nor should it be.

One thing I worry about is that the toxicity once held in the politics thread could drift into other areas of the forum once somewhat immune. How often have we said ‘Take it to the politics thread’ to preserve the civility of another one? Now the only recourse is to ban members who wish to express political views, or lock any thread which becomes mired in such toxicity. For this reason, I think there’s a place for such a thread.

But bigger picture, what do we want in this forum?

I think everyone who frequents this site comes here because they find something here to enjoy, whether it’s the projects, the other members, Star Wars in general, or even some peculiar interest only served by the Off-Topic section. For me, I try to read every topic in the General and Fan Preservation/Fan Edits sections, and much of the Off-Topic section(s). I love to see people’s creativity and hear their love for movies. I think there is still a lot of this site which feels like it’s from an earlier internet time, when the camaraderie of shared interests overwhelmed any cynicism or division. Or maybe I joined in a time of relative calm, where the Star Wars universe was just six movies forvermore and we all knew how we felt about them, and this is all a case of rose-colored glasses.

The temptation is strong to descend into mean-spirited arguments with other members, to make decisions one later regrets. I’m no stranger to that vice. So I guess my point is that we could all stand to remember what brought us here in the first place, and what we want this site to be.

RogueLeader said:

I like the change! Not a major change but I think it would be effective. Would it be a big challenge to rescore it appropriately?

Probably no more difficult than rescoring the destruction of Starkiller Base. The only dialogue that would have to be moved is Finn shouting ‘No!’.

I just ate some American cheese, which by the way is either the favorite or least favorite of the cheeses I will eat, depending on whether it’s high quality or heavily processed.