Nerfherder

Wow this sounds like a fantastic project, and must have taken a LOT of work/man hours to do! If only Lucasfilm would put as much LOVE into the originals films as is displayed almost daily on this forum we'd all be happy! My 'goto' mixes for the film have been the 1985 LD version (which I uploaded years back as seventiesfilmnut), and the mono version on Puggo's fab 16mm version, but this sounds like it could be THE version to listen to for ultimate fidelity.

Just one thing, you mention you used the LFE from the SE's? One thing which REALLY bugged me about the SE remix (aside from all the SE additions of course!) was the digital distortion one can clearly hear during the conference room force choke scene. The bass has been pumped up so much that it distorts during this scene - I remember thinking that it was just the speakers in the cinema (Odeon, Leicester Square) not being able to take the volume. However when I got the SE LD set when that first came out I was disappointed to find out the distortion was actually on the remix. Do you know if the SE bass distortion in on your new version? Sorry it's a minor comment to make, but for me it would make the difference between a v.good release and a perfect one ;)

Can't wait to hear more of this release, and thank you for all your hard work :)

- NH

Well I've just e-mailed Mr Hunt of The Digital Bits to see what he thinks about this campaign. Would be awsome to have The Digital Bits join the cause!

Keep 'em crossed!

BmB said:

Actually the shuttle sequence fits in between a musical cut anyway.

I disagree - it may fit VISUALLY, but no way in hell does it fit in musically. In the good old days of fim appreciation when people had attention spans longer than 3 seconds the music was often considered a work of art in its own right, and FLOWED with the visuals enhancing the on-screen action and providing much of the emotional connection between viewer and story/characters. This is just an absolute trashing of a once beautiful and 'heart pounding' scene with absolutely top notch pacing and editing. It now resembles the kind of thing you'd get in a computer game cut scene quite frankly. This piece of music was scored to the 1980 version of this scene. It consequently fits it like a glove. One change in the scene disrupts the intended musical flow - Whoever was responsible should be ashamed at doing such a bad hatchet job.

The last act of Empire is nearly operatic in its intensity and is absolutely BEAUTIFULLY scored and PACED! It's not even the change in Vader's voice, or the pointless shot of Vader arriving, it's the total and utter DESTRUCTION of the musical flow in that scene! It's just completely and utterly ruined! For the sake of about 5 seconds of needless exposition.

It's the single most offensive change to the entire original trilogy in my humble opinion, and shows that either Lucas, or Ben Burtt (Perhaps both) haven't a CLUE about the importance of musical pacing in a scene. It's almost like they see music as a generic sound effect - you can cut and paste it all you like as long as the general feel of each piece is roughly the same. This kind of attitude towards the importance of John Williams' masterpiece(s) really is quite offensive. I would love to know his feelings when he saw this edit.  This scene was scored in a way few films regrettably are these days (or even then) - it was a perfect marriage of editing, FX work, and of course musical scoring. It was at this point I realised Lucas had lost control of whatever it was he had in the first place, and he was just using the original films to play about with CGI in anticipation of the prequals.

I actually didn't mind many of the changes to Empire, but this one change rendered the Special Edition unwatchable for me. It bugs me just thinking about it. Even though the GOUT is such low quality, it's still the one I goto now for any of the films.

I'd rather watch a faded masterpiece than a cleaned-up patchwork mess of a classic film.

Great idea, and I agree the time to do this is now!

I truly believe that this will be the last realistic chance of seeing the original films available in the quality they deserve.

We really need to push this, and by that I mean press and sites like The Digital Bits and Home Theatre Forum who'd be sympathetic to 'the cause', from a film history perspective, rather than some stereotypically whiney 'fan boy' one which wouldn't get us anywhere, and people are tired of by now:

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/forum/list/66

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/

It's important not to appear pushy and demanding. Carefully state that Star Wars is part of film history and needs to be preserved and treated with the same care and respect as any other historically important film like Ben-Hur, Gone With The Wind, North By Northwest etc etc. Bring up how younger generations would likely be fascinated by seeing how the trilogy has developed over the years.

Mention also the people who did the work that went into the original FX shots (many of which were replaced with the SEs) should have their contributions recognised and preserved for future generations to appreciate.

Lastly, I think a mention of the capabilities of Blu-Ray to hold all versions of the films could be bought up. As an example mention the amazing Blade Runner 5-disc blu-ray set, as well as Close Encounters of the Third Kind, both with all their cuts included. I think the biggest 'push' for Lucasfilm would be the realisation that they'd sell FAR more copies of this if all cuts were included - something for everyone then and we're all happy, and Lucas is sitting there watching yet more cash pour in! If they just released the SE versions that are already available on DVD I don't think sales would be that amazing as people already have these versions in pretty good quality already.

The historical nature of these films really does demand a theatrical version restoration however, and I sincerely hope some bright spark at Lucasfilm has the balls to mention this to Mr Lucas. (Would he like it if one of his fav. Kurosawa films was colourised for example, and THAT became the only version available? Food for thought!).

- J

I have a feeling we MAY see the unaltered original Star Wars films in this set. I think even Lucasfilm MUST realise by now that they've kind of run out of carrots to dangle in front of fans' faces! That they've run out of more bait to tempt the hardcore fans with yet another release. The original trilogy is the last bargaining card they have left to guarantee monster sales of their product!

But.... according to The digital bits we may not get this until October 2011 - why the freaking delay??!? I'm sick to death of Lucasfilm's tactics these days. They could bring out these on Blu-ray tomorrow if they wanted! With HD set-top boxes and home computers going down in price, many can now burn their own versions in HD if they have the know-how. All the information to do this is freely available on the net. I think Lucasfilm would be wise to give the public what they desire NOW or lose out future sales to pirated HD copies of all 6 films floating around the internet.

Lucas used to be a good business man (the days of him being a decent director I think are long gone, if indeed they ever existed...) and he MUST know he'd make a killing on a remastered bare-bones blu-ray release of the Original unaltered trilogy. I think he's just stubburn and secretly probably hates the fact that his original films are held in higher esteem than his CGI cartoons!

Still I think by now just about EVERYone he knows in both the film world and in the higher echelons of Lucasfilm MUST have hinted to him by now that offering the original trilogy would be a wise thing to do.

Such a disappointment that it looks like it'll be a 'all or nothing' box set rather than individual releases of each film. Hopefully they'll follow if the Lucasfilm DVDs were anything to go by. Really though, in 2010 we should have seen individual blu-ray box sets of each film by now ala Blade Runner, or Close Encounters featuring all cuts of each respective film plus a generous helping of supplementary material, and original theatrical poster cover-art, not something photoshopped by someone who clearly has little eye/respect for iconic design... Treat these as PROPER film releases befitting their cult status, and importance in US cinema, rather than 'something for the kids'.

In fact they could take a page out of Harry Potter's book, by releasing a version for the kids with garish cover and silly extra games on disc or something, and a proper version for film buffs (not JUST hardcore Star Wars films) with original cover design, historical press cuttings, press-kits, trailers, making ofs etc etc. The kind of thing we'd probably have by now if a company that really CARED about film history like Criterion or even the BFI released these films. These are some of THE most popular films of all time - I still remain stunned at the lack of imagination showed by Lucasfilm in marketing these films properly for the home DVD/Blu-Ray market. Time was they were at the cutting edge with their LD box set.....

vaderios said:

Nerfherder said:

Yeah a SSD wouldn't destroy the death star - what I meant was that Lando and co. partically destroy the core, but it is still JUST literally hanging in there. Having the star destroyer crash into the uncompleted side of the death star at full ramming speed is enough to finish the job off.

Well, if more explosions then yes :D

Daddy Michael will be proud for his son :D

-Angel(vaderios)

 

 

 

I'd like to think I have more imagination than ANYthing Michael Bay would produce.... but thanks for the comment....

Darth Cadavra said:

That would be an amazing spectacle (and the Force Unleashed fan in me is giddy at the prospect of destroying more Star Destroyers with Force Pull), but I don't think even a SSD's impact on a moon-sized space station would destroy it - I prefer Lando taking out the core.  You could try having the SSD crash simply overload the Death Star's shield, but then there's the problem of conveying on-screen (in both a logical and thematically-satisfying way) how Han destroying the shield generator somehow didn't destroy all of the shield.

It's a cool idea, and part of me really wants it to work - but I just don't see it fitting.

Yeah a SSD wouldn't destroy the death star - what I meant was that Lando and co. partically destroy the core, but it is still JUST literally hanging in there. Having the star destroyer crash into the uncompleted side of the death star at full ramming speed is enough to finish the job off.

Darth Editous said:

Vader already killed the Emperor, I think that's redemption enough - and to make Lando go all that way only for him to screw up seems kind of a waste.

DE

Yeah I definately see where you are coming from, I just thought the audience are on the edge of their seats (those that have never seen it anyway haha!) thinking Lando and co are going to pull this off. And they hit it but it isn't enough!!! ARghhhh ohhh nooooooo!!!!

The Death Star starts to power up to fire and instead Vader saves the day through using his own ship to finish off what Lando partly destroyed.

I agree though there's too much that would need to be done to pull this one off. I'll just letit play in my mind's eye instead ;)

I wouldn't call it cr*p - I think it has the emotional pay-off/delivery which Jedi always hinted at but never QUITE delivered? At their core the films are about redemption, and I think the end of Jedi REALLY needed to hammer that point home using Vader himself (and not Lando). Who better to destroy the Death Star II and bring victory to the Rebellion? I'm sure of this had happened in 1983 there wouldn't have been a dry eye in the house. I don't know... it just seemed perfect to me ;)

"And Nerfherder: Good idea there! Whether conceivable or not, I understand there is more to it than just the visual "cool" factor, not to mention it would also connect to the Red Leader "negative... it just impacted on the surface" let-down moment and "Oh no! What are they going to do now?!"

Haha thanks man. And I hadn't considered that line you mention... my God it seems tailer made for this very scene! I've seen this ending in my mind's eye for the past 13 years now and I'd LOVE to see it realised even just as stills. It just seems so powerful and really turns Vader into a tragic hero - he saves the Rebellion during it's darkest "how the hell are they going to turn this around" moment.....

Still the other ideas I'm slowly reading about seem just as awsome :)

Hi folks!

Long time visitor to this site but only posted here as Nerfherder once before. Have to say the work on display here is absolutely awsome, as well as the imagination at work by just about everyone! I only wonder how long it will be before sequals to Star Wars are made BY fans as the standard of work here is so stunning...

I have yet to read all 251 pages of this thread (I'll save that for the week!) but YEARS back (1997 in fact, after seeing the SEs in London at the cinema!) I had the following idea over a pint or two with a mate for the ending of Jedi. He loved the idea, and I thought it might be of potential interest to some here. If not feel free to ignore it haha! I original posted under the name of seventiesfilmnut on here a few years back, and this idea is also buried in one of Adywan's threads.

Anyways, on with the idea then: I never liked the fact that something as HUGE as the Super Star Destroyer could simply lose control and crash into the Death Star (AWFUL explosion isn't it!) just because of one suicidal rebel pilot! So, I proposed the following:

What if it looks like the Empire is winning the battle. Chewie and Lando have taken a shot at the reactor, but it only destroyed a PART of it - not the whole. It needs something bigger to take it out for good, and therby destroy the Death Star II. Luke is sitting with Vader after the Emperor has been bested.

Perhaps Vader - as a last gesture of repentance, and of reconciliation with Luke (and not to mention the Good Side) raises his remaining gloved fist, concentrates (can use the shot of his death for this perhaps? - eyes closed etc, just keep the sound FX of him breathing obviously lol!) - we then FADE OUT to a shot of the Executor, perhaps hands moving in slow mo on a control console? We then have a fade in of the exterior of the Executor superimposed with Vader's face, as he wills the Ship/pilot into the superstructure of the Death Star II, thereby creating a huge explosion which finishes the job Lando and co, failed. Luke still has time to get the Shuttle out of the exploding Death Star as in the original film.

I am not sure how this could be done with existing shots, and the pacing would be tricky, but I thought it would really be something to have had Luke destroy the original Death Star, and for his Father to destroy the Death Star II - sort of has a nice symmetry to it, and helps really complete the circle, or the story arc of Anakin. One last defiant action which results in the Rebels winning the battle. The Executor is Vader's ship too, so it's fitting that he uses it to destroy the Death Star II, and also destroys his evil past... Lando destroying the Death Star was cool and everything, but I think having Vader do it would be so much more emotionally satisfying, IFFFFF it can be pulled off by any genius's here? It would need some new FX of the Executor ploughing through some of the unfinished structure of the Death Star II and into the reactor... as well as some subtle use of voice actors or dialogue editing for some modified lines i.e. Lando "we've FAILED - the reactor is still operational!" or something...

Just an idea I had - feel free to shoot it down folks hahaha! ;)

Peace!

- NH

Dear Adywan,

I haven't posted here before, but have been following your fantastic projects since they began, and have enjoyed your version of Star Wars often.

Just wanted to let you know my thoughts are with you and your family right now mate. Take care now and all the very best.

- John