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NFBisms

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1-Jun-2015
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13-Oct-2025
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Post
#1351117
Topic
Revenge of the Sith (The New Canon Cut) [ON HOLD INDEFINITELY]
Time

It’s not too negative! (Nothing will be for me tbh!) I definitely understand what you mean and was on the fence about it. Hence the question mark.

I’m of a few minds about it. I definitely think it makes Anakin immediately more unsympathetic, but I also feel like that should be okay if everything that gets him to that unsympathetic point makes sense. It’s the story of Anakin’s fall after all. If he goes from a good person to a bad child-murdering one and it tracks - well, that’s the kind of thing that impresses me in other media. It’s so dark in a way that is emotionally affecting if not for remembering who he was and for the people close to him. It’s not like this scene isn’t implied by the events in the film anyway.

But yes, overall the arc from I-VI for this character is redemption. That is much harder to argue for if Darth Vader is explicitly a mass murderer of children. I think I might make two versions when the time comes.

Post
#1350989
Topic
Revenge of the Sith (The New Canon Cut) [ON HOLD INDEFINITELY]
Time

It kind of kills the momentum of the sequence for me. It’s pretty much an epilogue (essentially extraneous to its conclusion) to the Yoda vs Palpatine fight: Yoda has already fled and Palpatine has comfortably moved on to the next order of business in the plot - but Anakin vs Obi-Wan hasn’t even finished yet. It’s just a preference thing.


So, there was a big mistake in my previous workprint. I’ve since taken it down and using that as an excuse to replace it with a new version. This one has a few huge changes (based on ideas from sade1212) that might end up being temporary.

First, a couple of the smaller fixes to clips from before:

Cleaned up Padme/Anakin reunion rescore, right to left wipe to Kashyyk, removed “…and not be pushed around”

Anakin’s “Nothing…” in the fountain scene given more room to breathe before Utapau transition

“Is that bad?” tweaks (sound fx, lipsync, minor direction, and holding on shot before transition


Okay, so courtesy of sade1212, I tried my hand at implementing an idea of theirs from the Radical Redux thread I really liked. Subject to change back.

Anyway, the basis for this change is that Anakin’s exact mindset in turning to the dark side has always been somewhat muddled and nearly inscrutable. We probably understand why he chooses it, but not how he can. How can a good man do these terrible things? The theatrical asserts that he’s always kind of been troubled and scary in that way, but I’ve obviously moved away from that to make him more well-adjusted. I’ve previously leaned on Anakin developing this philosophy of “ends justify the means;” where he visibly feels remorse and never explicitly extols the virtues of galaxy-ruling. He knows he’s done terrible things but it’s for Padme!

The underlying issue with that execution of it - while it has worked for me and others - is that Anakin then becomes almost a secondary character for what should arguably be the most important part of his development. The next time we see him there’s distance between us and him - he’s done all the bad things offscreen and how he feels about it is only given to us after that fact.

Anakin visits Padme before he marches the temple
So sade’s idea was to have Anakin visit Padme directly after his christening as Darth Vader. I like this for a lot of reasons. Where this scene is placed originally, is exactly what I mean when I say there’s distance between us and Anakin. He’s acting somewhat normally, seemingly unfazed by what we know he’s done. Any empathy we had for him is lost because we can’t relate to that. Sure, we can extrapolate an internal justification process or him burying his feelings, but there’s no real payoff for that understanding (unless you count the “Nooooo”/scream from Vader, which I have removed), no elucidation that that’s what’s happening.

With this new placement, Anakin has only betrayed Mace and only just agreed to march on the temple. He has yet to commit his crimes, so now this scene is contextualized as cold feet, trying to re-affirm why he would do the things he will while he’s still relatively “innocent.” I tried to play up how he doesn’t know what he’s about to do, and avoided him talking about his allegiance to Palpatine. He knows Padme would be against him, and now the scene is rife with half-truths and uncertainty. When Padme brings up Obi-Wan, he’s taken aback because it’s the first real consequence he has to face.

Re-Implement Younglings?
In looking for a scene to replace the previous, I felt like the youngling scene might work now as its own beat in the story, rather than glossed over in a montage. It used to be a 180 that was hard to justify, but now we have context for Anakin’s state of mind. He was hesitant, but he has to do what he has to do. Turning it into its own beat makes it a point of no return in his descent into depravity, especially as Anakin is never even slightly optimistic after this. He just wants to save Padme. I think it adds to the tragedy now rather than confuse it.

Post
#1348735
Topic
Revenge of the Sith (The New Canon Cut) [ON HOLD INDEFINITELY]
Time

I’d love a few more small references to Clone Wars characters, whether that’s Ahsoka, Rex, or Maul. But the edit is great as is, that would just be a nice bonus.

I was actually thinking about adding Appo’s arrow to the clone trooper talking to Organa when he visits the temple, but haven’t had the time or motivation to really do it yet. Mostly because that’s a really obscure reference, that’s already a reference in itself to Filoni’s time with Avatar: The Last Airbender. xP

This is outside of my resources, but it would also be sick if someone added Rex in a hologram to the meeting (just signing out) before Cody signs in to tell everyone about Obi-Wan engaging Grevious.

There was a point in time where I tried to have Anakin and Mace talking about Maul right before Cody in that scene as well, but it never worked enough to make it onto any workprint.

Post
#1348708
Topic
Revenge of the Sith (The New Canon Cut) [ON HOLD INDEFINITELY]
Time

Yeah, I was about to say, some of the changes you (CMMAP) talk about aren’t even changes I made. Even still, a good chunk of the suggestions you have are within a philosophy for the film that I’m not quite aiming for: hiding a lot of important plot details for the sake of making reveals happen in chronologically later content. I personally don’t think it can be done effectively, and I think a lot of the film’s emotional weight relies on us knowing about Darth Vader and how it ties into the OT.

Post
#1348496
Topic
Unusual <strong>Sequel Trilogy</strong> Radical Redux Ideas Thread
Time

Yeah, and not to disparage the efforts of everyone who’s tried this with other scenes (because the work is solid itself, just needs some cleaning up) but I have a problem with how even more manipulative it makes the scene come off. It’s a great emotional piece (not gelling with Williams aside) on its own, but in this context only highlights how much TROS wants or expects you to care without having done anything to deserve it. I love Babu Frik as much as the next guy, but the whole contrivance of losing the battle -> “just people!” saving the day becomes even more hamfisted and patronizing.

Post
#1346765
Topic
<em>Star Wars: The Clone Wars</em> To Return With New Episodes
Time

burn on me i guess?

StarkillerAG said:

NFBisms said:

  • The changes to Anakin’s character make him a more boring character than his film counterpart

Then why are you changing Anakin’s film character to be more in line with the TV show?

Because I like TCW more than the films and think that its characters deserve to have a finale that works for them better than the theatrical film.


I guess to clarify:

I definitely like Filoni/Matt Lanter’s portayal more, in writing and acting. I mean, I wouldn’t have made my edit if I didn’t feel that way, if I didn’t think the prequels shat the bed as far as connecting to the OT and making us like or care about the characters anyway.

That said we all know it’s not purely a case of TCW’s writing just being better. They deliberately approached Anakin as a mash-up of Han/Luke when he wasn’t really that in the movies. And it works!

But on some level, I feel like retconning him into a classical ideal hero-type does away with what little about the original portrayal that did work for me. I don’t quite know how to articulate this atm because it’s like 2am where I am, but it’s almost deliberately dumber. In a lot of ways it’s Anakin as a crowd-pleasing Marvel character. The concessions made for his character do the opposite of flesh him out.

Wooden acting and campy writing aside, I think something that was unique about Hayden’s Anakin was that he was pretty feminine-coded: he was sensitive and softer spoken, he cried, he wore his heart on his sleeve. Unlike the stoic male hero informed by morals and action, his story was defined by his emotions. Interestingly enough his arc is pretty much a Heroine’s Journey. I think that’s fascinating stuff.

Sure, Anakin can come off as a bit of an entitled brat - but within an institution deliberately depicted as cold and dispassionate. I do think him being nine in TPM (and “too old” at that age) was a calculated story decision, and with the two other films, it paints a picture of a good heart discouraged by conservative moral authority - a boy made to conform to the masculine ideal of unemotional and pragmatic. He’s robbed of healthy outlets for emotions he has, which pushes him towards worse influences and shapes his worldview in unhealthy ways.

By emphasizing how young and repressed he is, there’s just a lot more going on; discussions about masculinity and those expectations, how that can skew perspectives in an upbringing, how war certainly doesn’t help - and how all of that interplays with indoctrination and dogmatic faith. For kids, it’s a lesson about how logical detachment and unemotional thinking is overrated - in a world that so often wants us to “control your feelings,” turning boys into unfeeling social monsters and looks down on women for what’s normal in any human. In a franchise about the virtues of love and family, I find that this take on Darth Vader is fitting. It’s more mature and intriguing than just a failed hero’s journey. It just mostly doesn’t work within our expectations or how he’s described in the OT. (and execution lmao) But maybe that’s the point. Like Luke, we romanticize that classical hero ideal but the prequels aim to demonstrate that its applications may be more harmful than good. Anakin represents that and the fandom backlash to his whininess is kind of poetic in a way.

The show tackles the failings of the prequel Jedi in a similar way, but more politically than psychically.

It all gets confused though because TCW Anakin is well-adjusted and relatively wise. He has a balance between his emotionality and the Jedi’s expectations and he’s treated like an endearing maverick for it. He never cries (even when he thinks Obi-Wan fucking dies), and his past? He doesn’t want to talk about it. His “inner darkness” is vague, manifesting itself as macho-man anger issues, or even just random. Alone, he’s just a good guy whose bad tendencies one day dictated his actions in a big way. It doesn’t improve the prequel character, it simplifies him and his circumstances. Considering them the same character only serves to make him more weird and uneven.

But he’s more likable! I certainly would rather watch him. The changes are for the better, but are imo more boring.

TLDR; Let Anakin Cry More 2020

Post
#1346704
Topic
Revenge of the Sith (The New Canon Cut) [ON HOLD INDEFINITELY]
Time

^Yeah, with that rough test, I was trying to balance my preferences/wishlist of the scene with some suggestions I’d gotten. After learning how to better get rid of the traces of the other audio channels in the center channel, I just went ham on “things I’ve always wanted to see.” But my ideal just isn’t that possible with the material at hand - short of VFX-skills I don’t have just to subtly tweak a mouth or facial expression.

Basically, the little nag I have about that scene in the edit - ever since RogueLeader first brought it up a few months ago - is that Padme’s “turn” against Anakin feels super sudden without his authoritarian motivations or youngling murder. With the material we have, one of the two characters would have to suffer for the scene to fully play smoothly. Sacrifice either Padme’s agency or sympathy for Anakin. As it is, I’m having my cake and eating it too.

In that newer radical test edit, I was going for Padme and Obi-Wan reach out to save Anakin together (Obi-Wan keeping his distance), but then once Padme realizes what Anakin wants to do, decides that she wants him dead instead. While that’s inferred in the current workprint anyway, these edits were meant to make that more explicit and Padme’s turn more smooth - all while trying to maintain Anakin’s integrity as a non-psychotic authoritarian. A balancing act that didn’t pay off but I think has some value as it shows how the theatrical lines can be rearranged.


Anyway, I had a whole post typed up in response to people’s feedback (of two different workprints at this point because I’m an animal with no export control) but my power went out and now those posts are all gone. 😦

Post
#1346697
Topic
<em>Star Wars: The Clone Wars</em> To Return With New Episodes
Time

I actually kind of prefer season 2 and parts of season 1 to chunks of the later seasons. Every later arc ends up being 3-4 episodes and a lot of them don’t really need to be. The highs are higher, but unlike in season 1 and 2 the show doesn’t move on from its lows fast enough.

I think this is why a lot of people suggest a specific viewing selection or order to those who want to get into it, so that they can skip all the bad or buy into the show easier off the bat. But the show’s batting average is a lot lower than watching its best in isolation would have you think.

My other Clone Wars hot takes:

  • Domino Squad were barely characters, Fives is the only notable one
  • The changes to Anakin’s character make him a more boring character than his film counterpart
  • Umbara arc didn’t stick the landing, nor did it need to be its 4 episodes and its entertainment value is 90% just being cool and fun not “dark or deep.” Not the show’s best.
  • Its at its best when it knows it’s a fun kids show
  • The action in this show can be too long and mind-numbing to watch at a certain point
  • The show did not make me care more or less about the prequel Jedi to make me any sadder about their deaths in ROTS
  • I always really liked Ahsoka
  • The Martez sisters were better than 85% of the stock characters used throughout the original run, and the Bad Batch
Post
#1346619
Topic
Revenge of the Sith (The New Canon Cut) [ON HOLD INDEFINITELY]
Time

Thank you, MuMu!


So I revisited the preduel Mustafar scene, but decided to go for every idea for it I felt might be too radical to be accomplished, and here’s the result:

ROUGH (like, more than usual) Anakin/Obi-Wan/Padme on Mustafar Clip

I, uh, don’t think it quite works. But I thought I should share it for the good of furthering the community’s collective thinking about how to edit the film.

Post
#1345500
Topic
Info: TROS Edit Opinions Poll - RESULTS &amp; ANALYSIS
Time

Um I think all stormtroopers should be MEN, hell even the male stormtroopers we got in the movie sounded like PUSSIES that talk to women, we have to dub them with only the manliest of voices: like Sean Connery, Harrison Ford, Clint Eastwood, Stone Cold Steve Austin, Larry the Lobster, Caillou, etc. That’s the only way I’d believe this empire could dominate the galaxy. Women? Please. Not in my Star Wars.

EDIT: this was a sarcastic shitpost

Post
#1343938
Topic
Revenge of the Sith (The New Canon Cut) [ON HOLD INDEFINITELY]
Time

I gave that a shot, as well as maybe removing “Please”
I was always iffy on the JAT line myself, but it didn’t seem to matter to untrained ears which is how it made it this far. And so many choices I’ve made since have worked off of that line in particular working.

sade1212 said:
I didn’t notice last time that you VFX’d Obi-Wan so his saber ignites second; it’s nice and subtly done.

Yeah, I figured that was essential to really shifting everyone’s motivations. I was hoping someone would help me out with it, but I guess it’s fine as it is?

Post
#1343744
Topic
Revenge of the Sith (The New Canon Cut) [ON HOLD INDEFINITELY]
Time

Some more experimentation.

Tried some alternate dialogue instead of silent nodding to replace Yoda’s reused lines in the Windu/Obi/Yoda deleted scene
Not super sure about this but I prefer lines there to nothing. Anything to justify why we saw that minute long piece of a conversation.

Testing an alternate exchange in pre-duel sequence
As sure about this one as I was with “You weren’t there,” which isn’t much (probably more) - but I actually like the context this one creates more than that one - technical stuff aside. ¯\(ツ)/¯ (again, Padme shot credited to the wonderful snooker)