Wow, I didn’t think anyone was going to do my Appo idea right after I mention it lmao! Sade, is it alright if I use it? Saves me a lot of time.
I’d love a few more small references to Clone Wars characters, whether that’s Ahsoka, Rex, or Maul. But the edit is great as is, that would just be a nice bonus.
I was actually thinking about adding Appo’s arrow to the clone trooper talking to Organa when he visits the temple, but haven’t had the time or motivation to really do it yet. Mostly because that’s a really obscure reference, that’s already a reference in itself to Filoni’s time with Avatar: The Last Airbender. xP
This is outside of my resources, but it would also be sick if someone added Rex in a hologram to the meeting (just signing out) before Cody signs in to tell everyone about Obi-Wan engaging Grevious.
There was a point in time where I tried to have Anakin and Mace talking about Maul right before Cody in that scene as well, but it never worked enough to make it onto any workprint.
Yeah, I was about to say, some of the changes you (CMMAP) talk about aren’t even changes I made. Even still, a good chunk of the suggestions you have are within a philosophy for the film that I’m not quite aiming for: hiding a lot of important plot details for the sake of making reveals happen in chronologically later content. I personally don’t think it can be done effectively, and I think a lot of the film’s emotional weight relies on us knowing about Darth Vader and how it ties into the OT.
Yeah, and not to disparage the efforts of everyone who’s tried this with other scenes (because the work is solid itself, just needs some cleaning up) but I have a problem with how even more manipulative it makes the scene come off. It’s a great emotional piece (not gelling with Williams aside) on its own, but in this context only highlights how much TROS wants or expects you to care without having done anything to deserve it. I love Babu Frik as much as the next guy, but the whole contrivance of losing the battle -> “just people!” saving the day becomes even more hamfisted and patronizing.
I would just keep the Mustafar lines honestly. It’s not a huge deal if he doesn’t go straight there, and I even like how it’d be Anakin lying more explicitly to Padme.
How are you planning to handle the transitions? I might even want to try this in my own edit…
Nice! I really like this idea, and what you have is good. Making the lines fit better shouldn’t be too hard with a little more time. Hell, the added lines sound more right in the scene than some lines I know are in the original.
Is Padme knowing Anakin is on Mustafar later going to be an implied force connection or something?
burn on me i guess?
- The changes to Anakin’s character make him a more boring character than his film counterpart
Then why are you changing Anakin’s film character to be more in line with the TV show?
Because I like TCW more than the films and think that its characters deserve to have a finale that works for them better than the theatrical film.
I guess to clarify:
I definitely like Filoni/Matt Lanter’s portayal more, in writing and acting. I mean, I wouldn’t have made my edit if I didn’t feel that way, if I didn’t think the prequels shat the bed as far as connecting to the OT and making us like or care about the characters anyway.
That said we all know it’s not purely a case of TCW’s writing just being better. They deliberately approached Anakin as a mash-up of Han/Luke when he wasn’t really that in the movies. And it works, god does it work! I do get emotional about his relationship with Ahsoka and his men.
But on some level, I feel like retconning him into a classical ideal hero-type does away with what little about the original portrayal that did work for me. I don’t quite know how to articulate this atm because it’s like 2am where I am, but it’s almost deliberately dumber. In a lot of ways it’s Anakin as a crowd-pleasing Marvel character. The concessions made for his character do the opposite of flesh him out.
Wooden acting and campy writing aside, I think something that was unique about Hayden’s Anakin was that he was pretty feminine-coded: he was sensitive and softer spoken, he cried, he wore his heart on his sleeve. Unlike the stoic male hero informed by morals and action, his story was defined by his emotions. Interestingly enough his arc is pretty much a Heroine’s Journey. I think that’s fascinating stuff. As a kid, his struggles subconsciously allowed me to challenge some of the more toxic male figures in my life.
Sure, Anakin can come off as a bit of an entitled brat - but within an institution deliberately depicted as cold and dispassionate. I do think him being nine in TPM (and “too old” at that age) was a calculated story decision, and with the two other films, it paints a picture of a good heart discouraged by conservative moral authority - a boy made to conform to the masculine ideal of unemotional and pragmatic. He’s robbed of healthy outlets for emotions he has, which pushes him towards worse influences and shapes his worldview in unhealthy ways.
By emphasizing how young and repressed he is, there’s just a lot more going on; discussions about masculinity and those expectations, how that can skew perspectives in an upbringing, how war certainly doesn’t help - and how all of that interplays with indoctrination and dogmatic faith. For kids, it’s a lesson about how logical detachment and unemotional thinking is overrated - in a world that so often wants us to “control your feelings,” turning boys into unfeeling social monsters and looks down on women for what’s normal in any human. In a franchise about the virtues of love and family, I find that this take on Darth Vader is fitting. It’s more mature and intriguing than just a failed hero’s journey. It just mostly doesn’t work within our expectations or how he’s described in the OT. (and execution lmao) But maybe that’s the point. Like Luke, we romanticize that classical hero ideal but the prequels aim to demonstrate that its applications may be more harmful than good. Anakin represents that and the fandom backlash to his whininess is kind of poetic in a way.
The show tackles the failings of the prequel Jedi in a similar way, but more politically than psychically.
It all gets confused though because TCW Anakin is well-adjusted and relatively wise. He has a balance between his emotionality and the Jedi’s expectations and he’s treated like an endearing maverick for it. He never cries (even when he thinks Obi-Wan fucking dies), and his past? He doesn’t want to talk about it. His “inner darkness” is vague, manifesting itself as macho-man anger issues, or even just random. Alone, he’s just a good guy whose bad tendencies one day dictated his actions in a big way. It doesn’t improve the prequel character, it simplifies him and his circumstances. Considering them the same character only serves to make him more weird and uneven.
But he’s more likable! I certainly would rather watch him. The changes are for the better, but are imo more boring.
TLDR; Let Anakin Cry More 2020
^Yeah, with that rough test, I was trying to balance my preferences/wishlist of the scene with some suggestions I’d gotten. After learning how to better get rid of the traces of the other audio channels in the center channel, I just went ham on “things I’ve always wanted to see.” But my ideal just isn’t that possible with the material at hand - short of VFX-skills I don’t have just to subtly tweak a mouth or facial expression.
Basically, the little nag I have about that scene in the edit - ever since RogueLeader first brought it up a few months ago - is that Padme’s “turn” against Anakin feels super sudden without his authoritarian motivations or youngling murder. With the material we have, one of the two characters would have to suffer for the scene to fully play smoothly. Sacrifice either Padme’s agency or sympathy for Anakin. As it is, I’m having my cake and eating it too.
In that newer radical test edit, I was going for Padme and Obi-Wan reach out to save Anakin together (Obi-Wan keeping his distance), but then once Padme realizes what Anakin wants to do, decides that she wants him dead instead. While that’s inferred in the current workprint anyway, these edits were meant to make that more explicit and Padme’s turn more smooth - all while trying to maintain Anakin’s integrity as a non-psychotic authoritarian. A balancing act that didn’t pay off but I think has some value as it shows how the theatrical lines can be rearranged.
Anyway, I had a whole post typed up in response to people’s feedback (of two different workprints at this point because I’m an animal with no export control) but my power went out and now those posts are all gone. 😦
I actually kind of prefer season 2 and parts of season 1 to chunks of the later seasons. Every later arc ends up being 3-4 episodes and a lot of them don’t really need to be. The highs are higher, but unlike in season 1 and 2 the show doesn’t move on from its lows fast enough.
I think this is why a lot of people suggest a specific viewing selection or order to those who want to get into it, so that they can skip all the bad or buy into the show easier off the bat. But the show’s batting average is a lot lower than watching its best in isolation would have you think.
My other Clone Wars hot takes:
- Domino Squad were barely characters, Fives is the only notable one
- The changes to Anakin’s character make him a more boring character than his film counterpart
- Umbara arc didn’t stick the landing, nor did it need to be its 4 episodes and its entertainment value is 90% just being cool and fun not “dark or deep.” Not the show’s best.
- Its at its best when it knows it’s a fun kids show
- The action in this show can be too long and mind-numbing to watch at a certain point
- The show did not make me care more or less about the prequel Jedi to make me any sadder about their deaths in ROTS
- I always really liked Ahsoka
- The Martez sisters were better than 85% of the stock characters used throughout the original run, and the Bad Batch
Thank you, MuMu!
So I revisited the preduel Mustafar scene, but decided to go for every idea for it I felt might be too radical to be accomplished, and here’s the result:
ROUGH (like, more than usual) Anakin/Obi-Wan/Padme on Mustafar Clip
I, uh, don’t think it quite works. But I thought I should share it for the good of furthering the community’s collective thinking about how to edit the film.
edit: oops double post
Um I think all stormtroopers should be MEN, hell even the male stormtroopers we got in the movie sounded like PUSSIES that talk to women, we have to dub them with only the manliest of voices: like Sean Connery, Harrison Ford, Clint Eastwood, Stone Cold Steve Austin, Larry the Lobster, Caillou, etc. That’s the only way I’d believe this empire could dominate the galaxy. Women? Please. Not in my Star Wars.
EDIT: this was a sarcastic shitpost
I gave that a shot, as well as maybe removing “Please”
I was always iffy on the JAT line myself, but it didn’t seem to matter to untrained ears which is how it made it this far. And so many choices I’ve made since have worked off of that line in particular working.
I didn’t notice last time that you VFX’d Obi-Wan so his saber ignites second; it’s nice and subtly done.
Yeah, I figured that was essential to really shifting everyone’s motivations. I was hoping someone would help me out with it, but I guess it’s fine as it is?
Don’t know about first, but I did come up with it independently. Dude, I love taking that idea further by having Anakin cut to the chase though.
Some more experimentation.
Tried some alternate dialogue instead of silent nodding to replace Yoda’s reused lines in the Windu/Obi/Yoda deleted scene
Not super sure about this but I prefer lines there to nothing. Anything to justify why we saw that minute long piece of a conversation.
Testing an alternate exchange in pre-duel sequence
As sure about this one as I was with “You weren’t there,” which isn’t much (probably more) - but I actually like the context this one creates more than that one - technical stuff aside. ¯\(ツ)/¯ (again, Padme shot credited to the wonderful snooker)
This is so not wizard 😦
On the topic of Filoni additions to canon, adding Rex’s vambraces to Nik Sant would be cool.
I love how passive aggressive you are about this movie, Hal.
This edit helps cement the idea that these people are a family now, instead of Rey being completely alone on a desert planet at the end. Her friends are there waiting for her : )
It also helps explain why BB-8 is there, he’s just a curious little friend : )
i had this idea in my head lmao
It works for me! I really really like it!
Heard, on the baby talk. I’ll tweak it.
I think that I’d the one that now goes “Kenobi? Not Skywalker? How disappointing.”
Nah, that’s earlier. What they’re referring to, I just straight up cut out everything after “You fool…”
Watching some of the clips again, I think Anakin’s “Whoa-hoho!” line (during the Battle of Coruscant scene when him and Obi-Wan are evading a group of missiles) felt weird. I don’t know if it was Matt Lanter’s voice, but all I know is that it didn’t sound like Hayden Christensen, so I couldn’t tell who exclaimed that line when I first watched the clip.
It’s actually Hayden himself. xP
Also, I can’t seem to figure out what Anakin says after he jumps back into the elevator. (The line before Obi-Wan says, “Oh, it’s you!”) I guess you could either up the volume on it, or just cut it entirely. If you’d do the latter, I think the scene would be completely fine without it. You already have lots of good Obi and Anakin banter edited in, so getting rid of the line wouldn’t affect what you’re shooting for at all.
“Good view from up there.”
I know I overdo it sometimes, so I’m still trying to find a balance - but Ani/Obi in TCW almost never shut up together lmao. Maybe it was just me, but I found that keeping Hayden mostly quiet in any scene during this opening subconsciously brought me back to the original portrayal. Anakin is a confident outgoing jock in The Clone Wars, while Hayden naturally has this more reserved, sullen edge that comes through when he isn’t speaking. I gave him a lot of extra one-liners and laughter to facilitate the change in personality. Overcompensating so that he feels the way he does in TCW every time he needs to.
Lastly, if you added laughter when R2 zooms into the hallway where Obi, Anakin, and the Chancellor are stuck in the ray shield, I can’t completely tell if it’s laughter. Since R2’s scream is so loud, and the fact that the whole banter/bit about patience is already being played for laughs (some people may chuckle and not even hear the added laugter) and the banter is akin to Anakin acting like a brother to Obi-Wan (essentially saying “Bro. R2 knows what he’s doing. Just trust him. He’ll be here in no time to set us free.”), I think the laughter should just be removed. The laughter doesn’t really add anything (and frankly, doesn’t make much sense in the moment since Anakin is being semi-serious towards Obi.) Just my opinion.
And this is another example of how I’m compensating for Hayden v Lanter.
I actually agree that the comedic scenario in which Obi-Wan is unconvinced and Anakin isn’t is already kinda funny, but I deliberately sacrificed it to portray Obi-Wan as trusting of Anakin and his judgement. The original leaned too close to Obi-Wan’s chiding of him in AotC; I felt having them laugh together is a contrast to that.
This could all be a personal issue on my part, though.
Finally, the final duel between Anakin and Obi-Wan felt far too silent. I know my opinion on this probably differs from most because I have come to love the silliness of the dialogue in ROTS, but I really missed having Anakin reply to Obi Wan with “I should have known the Jedi were plotting to take over.” Having Anakin just stand there silently as Obi Wan speaks to him felt awkward. Without his replies to keep momentum going, the segment just goes on too long. But moreover, because of the edits you’ve made I actually think this line makes more sense than it does in the original cut. Originally Anakin’s “point of view” sounds totally absurd, but with the changes you have made to his motivations and the extra context of the clone wars, I think Anakin’s conclusion that the Jedi were attempting to overthrow the chancellor makes sense. The line is made far less silly when your edit shows Mace, Yoda, and Obi Wan explicitly consider arresting the chancellor.
Anyway, these were just a couple of my thoughts. I really enjoy what you have done with this film. It’s amazing how much Hayden’s performance can be improved with the addition of just a few giggles. Can’t wait to see how this project develops in the wake of the Clone Wars finale.
This was actually a change I was going to try and put on whatever I release next, or the final version. But I was going to remove “I should have known…” and “From my point of view…” so that they’re more firm stances Anakin is taking. It feels more stubborn and in that sense, more grasping for justification, than a misguided sense of enlightenment.
It doesn’t really mean anything to anyone here because yeah, the movie is just not enjoyable to watch - but I at least respect AotC more than TROS. It’s fun and funny to call it straight garbage - I don’t really care - but George was trying to do something with it that is more admirable in concept than stroking nostalgia or cheap thrills. For as out of touch and misguided those prequels were - the cynical moneymaking aspect isn’t as pronounced, and the elements of it that are there was still encouraged with creativity.
Maybe my anti-establishment uncle just got to me early on, but AotC’s flavor of bad is preferable for being an earnestly missed shot - not a calculated attempt to please as many people as possible.
inb4 someone invalidates this opinion as nostalgia or irrelevant to how bad it is or whatever
TROS opinion: Joking about Sheev fucks aside, I did kind of like the implication that Palpatine was human and not just an evil warlock. Not like the film does anything about it, but I like the dark side as something rooted in our passion and humanity. Sure - Palps as corrupted by his own greed and ambition works fine for that, but it kind of helps his “Ultimate Sith” title if he was also guided by all the human sins, including possessive love or at the very least sexual vices. He can manipulate Anakin and Luke so effectively because he would have empathy for the same desires he might have had once.
I don’t think Rey should have been his granddaughter, but I really see no reason why they retroactively made Palps Jr. a clone. It turns an already stupid plot element even stupider.
She was raised as a child soldier and trained by a mass murderer.
can’t break what’s broken to begin with xPPPP
“From a Space Odyssey? And him too? From N.W.A?”