Mrebo

It was a surreal day. I was out of the country at the time and it was weird to only have a few American classmates with whom to share the sense of confusion. Didn't realize until a couple days ago that I would be in DC on the 10th anniversary. Fortunately it's been uneventful!

TheoOdo said:

We may agree that it's silly for Obi-Wan to be dressed as a Jedi whilst in hiding, but it's been established - from Return of the Jedi on, if not earlier - that that's just what he was doing.

This is compelling evidence. But what about:

Is it because this is truly the outfit of peasants and Jedis have adopted it? It is a little odd that no distinction was made between Jedi clothing and Tatooine clothing.

SpenceEdit said:

Well, in Star Wars' case they do. This book will now become canon. So the events they say happened in KOTOR will also be canon. I mean, I guess you can ignore canon, but that's like saying "I don't like that Vader is Luke's father I'll pretend that didn't happen."

I personally ignore the idea that the books are canon. When the Thrawn trilogy first came out I read them and remember being impressed but didn't put them on the same level as movies. I enjoyed Tales from the Mos Eisely Cantina, but never took it as gospel. I've never thought it difficult to take the books with a grain of Tatooinian sand even if I enjoyed them. I mean, I don't take 3 "Star Wars" movies as canon! I suspect that if anyone has the ability to ruin a depiction of Star Wars it is Karpyshyn. And again, I know nothing about this Revan guy but it sounds as if his story might be well-suited for the "choose your own adventure" format. I loved those books.

none said:

(waaaaay off topic) Judging from this trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePelcaQOEaE

Kuky se vraci would be a phenomenon i'd gladly pay attention to.  www.kukysevraci.cz

Totally off topic, lol, but looks great. Reminds me of the movies of Jan Švankmajer.  Given that the maker of this is also czech, I suppose that's where the influence is from.

yotsuya said:

skyjedi2005 said:

Obi Wan says he was trained by Yoda in Empire Strikes back.  We then learn this is not the case in the phantom menace, there is some Qui Gon guy who was never mentioned in the original trilogy but was his real master.

Obi Wan claims Anakin was a good friend who was slowly seduced by evil, nowhere shown in the prequels.

The so called great jedi purge is handled in a pathetic and anti climatic way in episode III, this is not Vader betraying the jedi and hunting them down.

Obi-wan treats Yoda as more of a master than Qui-gon (I get the impression that Obi-wan is with Qui-gon for field training before becoming a knight. Qui-gon is there and gone in a brief period while Yoda remains. Besides, with the creative history (with how the movies turned out) that Obi-wan had admitted to, why would this be any different.

Obi-wan and Anakin show a clear friendship and Anakin's fall is not abrupt, nearly every conversation with Palpatine is leading to his fall. Remember, Palpatine has had years of contact with Anakin that we don't see.

The Jedi Purge is not over when Episode III ends. Those were just the Jedi with clone troops. What about how Anakin went to the temple and slaughtered the Jedi there, even the young ones. How many other Jedi escaped the clones and need to be hunted down by Darth Vader (once the black armor goes on).

We can make all kinds of guesses to try to make things make more sense...but it was clear that Qui Gon was Obi Wan's master. Just as Yoda was Dooku's master. Star Wars wikia supports the obvious interpretation of what we saw and was said in the PT. Yoda was not presented as Obi Wan's teacher, except maybe when he was in a class as a youngling.

Obi Wan and Anakin do not show a clear friendship. Moments of exposition insist upon it but it never feels authentic. I agree Anakin's fall in the PT wasn't abrupt (not does skyjedi say so). Anakin was constantly upset and moody. In Attack of the Clones he murders women and children. So whatever Palpatine did took root early and played out over and over again. Becoming a Sith was a mere formality. The movies suffered for not showing Anakin's fall, his seduction...instead we are left guessing what Palpatine might have been doing 'between the movies.' As presented, it was in Anakin's character to be angry and psychotic. Later on Palpatine tricks him. But he was not seduced.

You are on slightly firmer ground about the jedi purge. I completely agree with skyjedi that it was handled in a pathetic and anti climatic way....but that doesn't make it an inconsistency.

Sluggo said:

If he tweaked the OUT, it wouldn't be the Original Unaltered Trilogy.

The NOUT (nearly)? The AOUT (almost)? The POUT (practically)?

You have a good point but I think people are right that the vast majority of us would find it acceptable even if less than ideal.

I wonder how you would all feel if he 'fixed' inconsistencies (like replacing Ponda's arm).

Excellent thread. For many ships I want to blend OT styling with art deco - not entirely streamlined but more clunky (the second is newer but awesome):

I would want them to still feel like precursors to OT technology.

This is neither here not there, but I think it adds something:

To me, yes, absolutely.

I am less versed in technical aspects and simply want the story I know. If matte lines are removed, I won't notice or care.

I didn't mind removing Shaw's eyebrows or that they now "fixed" the Wampa arm. Such changes merely fix fairly obvious errors - they don't try to revise what actually happened. There's arguably a slippery slope here, but I could accept a great number of minor alterations.

Of course there would be no reason for GL to not preserve to the original originals. I mean, it seems like something any rational person would want to do with his creations...

One can write a compelling story but in Star Wars - in any movie - the visuals are equally important. From the ships, clothing, to alien characters, it all qualitatively impacts the story. I am wondering, how do you envision it all and how will it impact the telling of your story? Borrowing from xhonzi's excellent question format:

I don't know anything about Revan, but I found the Bane series' author's writing style pretty abysmal, right up through the ending of that series.

I don't like raining on parades but, for the record, I agree with xhonzi. It's taken me awhile to realize how good it feels to ignore the PT. I've changed Luke & Leia's mother's name and it makes life better! I have a joke mocking pod racing but I don't know if that pulls one out of the new story. Certain PT elements seem necessary - a military creation act for example. I'm toying with a plot to assassinate Senator Organa  because he is an obstacle to the creation of the galactic military (Obi Wan has pursued the assassin halfway across the galaxy leading him to Tatooine). I certainly don't want to ignore any good ideas out of PT spite. My crawl might address the crucial state of affairs and then shift to a young navigator returning to Tatooine where there is little thought of the Republic or armies.

We pan down where we find Anakin piloting the spice freighter. He is alarmed by a frenetic dogfight between two ships with one issuing a distress call. The distressed ship's engines are sparking and it is about to be destroyed. Anakin leaps to action firing upon the aggressor's ship, engaging it in battle pushing the freighter to its limit. Anakin finally prevails. Unfortunately, the victim's ship was too badly damaged and careens toward the surface before Anakin can do anything about it. By this time the freighter's captain has rushed to the cockpit and excoriated Anakin for his recklessness and damage to his ship, telling him he no longer has a job.

Maybe then we'd cut to the Senate.

Following that we will cut to Obi Wan staggering from the wreckage of his ship at night under a full moon...

skyjedi2005 said:

Because Vader and Skywalker were separate characters when star wars was made Kenobi had two students, Vader the more powerful of the two killed Skywalker, who was Luke's Father.

Very good point. Maybe making the prequel with an actual Darth Vader does make sense...

Having read that epic article about the creation of Chewbacca and Lucas's other inconsistent statements over the years (as well as midstream revisions), it seems that he truly has an awful memory or just doesn't care to keep things straight in his own mind. I don't think he intends to lie. I do wish he would at least care enough about cinematic history to preserve his original and culturally significant creation.

I was skeptical it was you Warbler. And after he became more crude it become more obvious. While it is unfair to point fingers and speculate, it's obvious who it is: George Lucas.

IAMPSYCHODAYVSCANCER said:

Mrebo said:

^

There may be no moderation here now but life is too short for holding grudges (wry humor intended, though perhaps not recognized as such by you). And even if there no moderation, we can still think ill of people who act idiotically.

 

THANK YOU FOR YOUR OVERTLY LONG MONOLOGUE. ENTHRALLING. NOW GIVE ME MORE MONEY.

Better overtly than covertly long (personally I thought it was covertly long, though a parenthetical can drag things out longer than the necessarily should be, if you see what I mean).

*awaits moderation*

^

There may be no moderation here now but life is too short for holding grudges (wry humor intended, though perhaps not recognized as such by you). And even if there no moderation, we can still think ill of people who act idiotically.

[Yes, another blu-ray (stupid name for a format, now that I type it out for the first time) inspired thread.]

George Lucas has argued that he changes Star Wars to make it as he originally intended but wasn't able to because of technological and budgetary restraints. While stuff like the "Noooo!" makes a bald-faced liar out of him, I'm curious about what elements were not originally intended but have not been changed. The green lightsaber in ROTJ comes to mind.

Very interesting. I found this yesterday while researching for my fledgling prequels regarding Obi Wan's statements about Anakin/Vader.

lordsidi said:

I've usually been a staunch supporter of G.Lucas and most of his additions/changes to the OT,plus his work with the PT. I even would get mad at some of the comments thrown against him by fans.....until this morning. Yes,I had NO news of the added "NO"s" by Vader. Lucas once said that these movies,at least the OT could basically be "silent movies". You could follow the story simply by the visual impact. So why in the name of hell did he have to f**k with one of my most iconic scenes in the OT! One that still put's a chill in me whenever I see it,,...to me it was PERFECT. A man struggling with an inner demon...the dark side of the force. Remain the dark lord or save my son. The simple turning of his head towards his dying son and his Sith Master....and finally ,without a word...he chooses. It was really one of my favorite scenes ever. I am very upset...that a movie that I've know since the first time in the theater has been tainted,,even ruined,by this SOB...I was excited for this bluray set,but  now...a die hard fan since 77,has been so disgusted by one simple word..."NO". 

It's funny that so many now appear to get where so many of us have been coming from. Or as Palpatine once said (does he still? hard to guess), "Only now, at the end, do you understand."

Wow.

As for the "No! Noooooooo!!!" it's obvious that is how George always intended it to be since he saw Rise of the Planet of the Apes last week.

Though I'm going away for 3 weeks, I'm probably not going away. I hear there is trusty internet in the powerful and unrepresented wretched hive of scum and villainy where I am going.

Pennsylvania Jones said:

Jedi1520 said:

I think that this thread (and this website in general) is awesome. I was horrified by the prequels and not only think that they are some of the worst films ever made, but will be some of the worst movies EVER made. I think that this site is important.

But I want to start all signing on to the same thing so that we can get this thing moving.

I have one point that I think all of us should sign on to:

(1)

Some of the better ideas I read about have to do with a (forgive the noun) "alien" force threatening the republic. The problem with this is that if there is no "outside" power mentioned in any of the OT movies. And it does not make sense that, if such a power had existed, it would just show up and collapse without a trace. For this reason I think we should adopt as a rule that:

the Anti-Republic force MUST consist of political elements and species that exist in the OT.

How about Rodians?

I agree about it being a 'domestic' threat. But we're not much for accepting rules, everyone follow their own ideas. I don't really like the idea of it being one particular species (though I have considered trandoshans) because it creates a stigma for every member of that species - dramatically changing our view of Greedo or Bossk or whatever species we choose. I edited by first post in this thread to update my thoughts on what the clone wars are about.

Wow, PSYCHO_DAYV's caps lock has been stuck for a long time!

I would be playing LOTRO at the moment. Or just wandering the internets reading political news.

twooffour said:

TV's Frink said:

Agnostic FTW! Woot woot!

...

I still try to be respectful of religion, even though I am not myself religious. I don't know the answers, but in saying that, I don't see how I can say that any other group doesn't have the answers either. How would I know?

The issue is simpler (in principle) than this last sentence suggests.

Religion has no answers (in the "valid" sense of the word) if it has no evidence to back up their answers (that they actually give).
Atheism doesn't claim to have any answers.


Hence, weak atheist.
I don't know of any evidence that backs up the claims of any religion - and stick to the label that makes no claims without backing them up in the first place.
Seems sound to me.

I have an opinion on atheism. That is all.

Ziggy Stardust said:

darth_ender said:

 ...Even if I were not Christian (yes, Mormons are Christian)....

I don't really know much about Mormonism. Besides the fact I went to see the jail they put Joseph Smith in a couple of weeks ago.

Wiki is somewhat cryptic on this point:

"Most Mormons self-identify as Christian, though some of their beliefs differ substantially from mainstream Christianity."

More research on Wiki says that like Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons apparently don't believe Jesus is God. While Wiki talks about early debates on the nature of Jesus as God or not, nowadays if a religion does not believe Jesus is God most people would say they're not Christian. While there is a historical link, Mormonism is very different theologically from the what is broadly recognized as Christianity. I guess another question is what does it matter whether we call Mormonism a Christian religion?

DuracellEnergizer said:

 

haraldo23 said:

This is more of a questions for those who saw The Original Trilogy back when it 1st came out, when prequels were years and years away...

Well, I'm not one of you guys - fact is I was born in '87 and never got to properly see the OT until '99. That being said I didn't know George was making prequels until almost literally the last minute, so there was some time for me to think about how the prequel era might have been before the PT wave rolled in.

1. I expected Anakin to be older at the time he became a Jedi, more-or-less the same age as Luke

2. I expected the Jedi to be like the Jedi in the EU: non-dogmatic, allowed to marry, have children, families, etc.

3. I expected the clones to be the enemy in the Clone Wars

4. I expected the Mandalorians to have a large role in the Clone Wars, serving pretty much as nemeses of the Jedi

5. I expected Palpatine to be more of a background character - someone who wouldn't be focused on until the final prequel

6. I expected Palpatine to be a self-taught dark side sorceror, not a Sith

7. I expected multiple lightsaber colours for the Jedi

8. I didn't expect there to be any Sith (Vader and any other non-Palpatine darksiders would be simple Dark Jedi)

9. I expected the look and tone of the PT to match that of the OT

10. I expected the PT era to be more archaic in terms of architecture, technology, etc.

11. I expected Anakin's wife to be a minor character

12. I didn't expect Palpatine to use a lightsaber

13. I did expect Yoda to have a lightsaber, but I thought it would be purple instead of green

14. I expected the PT era to be "a more civilized time" - ie. no wide-spread corruption in the Senate, at least not at first

15. I didn't expect any Darths other than Vader.

 

You are wise for your age! I'm not old enough to have seen any of the OT in the theater, though older than you, and I shared many of these preconceptions. I also thought there would be Mandalorians. Where did that idea originate?