Bingowings said:
The video essay is too simplistic.
Agreed with much in your post. I do think the extensive CGI is the issue being complained about when people talk about too much cleanliness. It's more an abundance of fake stuff that looked fake. And Padme's ship was silly! Didn't have the iconic status they must have intended.
Episode VII: A Tale of Two Death Stars
Both sides, heroes on each, race to complete their own Death Star in order to blow up the other. Who will prevail?!
luckydube,
There is no point in speculative quibbling about the precise comedic tone of E7. But I do hope it is in the spirit of the originals. And of course there will be nostalgia when you see characters decades later. And of course there will be new younger heroes. And of course it shouldn't be LOTR (though I didn't find those films so drainingly serious). What you should do is make a new thread expressing the view that there will be nostalgia, new heroes, light funny moments, and generally Star Warsy...but I would frame it in terms of joking about how old they are.
I'm teasing obviously. I don't see why there is a need to focus on their age as a joking point, especially to warrant a new thread ;] It is possible to put in a light-hearted recognition of where they are in their life stories (like the Yoda quote example) or Han Solo could say "here we go again" (both based in nostalgia and in character with greater meaning than being old). Putting them in situations to make them look silly due to their age would not be appealing.
I really don't think there should be any fear that this will be Star Wars Expendables, as Bingo "joked."
It's good that others are tentatively excited. I just hope there is not a single moment that knocks us out of the story for a cheap laugh. I think it was CP3S who complained about Big Bang Theory laughing at geeks, rather than with them. I disagree, but I don't want Star Wars mocking itself or the audience's expectations. The light-heartedness of the originals wasn't self-mocking.
I could be on board with Luke saying mostly to himself and with a smile, "When 900 years old you reach look as good you will not." Remembering Yoda's words, having that sense of humor/humility and recognizing his Yoda-like status would be good. It would be less about admitting infirmity but recognizing what youth meant - something plenty of us non-octogenarian fans have been learning. It could show that kind of reflection.
Getting in shape is for general appearances as well as physical action I imagine.
I was thinking Benedict Cumberbatch would be a compelling son of Tarkin, but I agree we shouldn't go much in that direction. In my fantasy world, Cumberbatch would have played Doctor Who and instead of Star Trek would have some role in Star Wars.
luckydube56 said:
But ignoring their age would be to ignore the obvious. That in itself would be a disservice to fans. There was nothing more ridiculous than seeing Yoda in the prequels fighting Count Dooku (spelling?).
And at the same time, anyone thinking their role in this film would be to sit in the background and give counsel on occasion is ignoring the obvious signs. They're being asked to get in shape so they can go on the adventures themselves. And in doing so they will realize they can no longer be tip of the spear.
For those resistant to the idea, I've got more bad news, the Millenium Falcon is going to be really old too and breaking down even more than it was before.
And if the rumoured title is indeed "A New Dawn", it just reinforces my idea it will be about turning the reigns over to more physically capable heroes.
Nobody advocates hiding their ages and of course they are making new/younger characters the main focus. The only objection is to making a whole joke out of the thing or making a constant or overt point.
Obi Wan said, "I'm getting too old for this sort of thing." It wasn't supposed to be funny; it wasn't funny. It was a simple statement of truth that wasn't harped on. And he continued on his merry way. Yoda surely showed his age but it wasn't the focus, except for when he was on his deathbed.
What you're saying about the new storyline is surely basically right. It's the comedy and overt recognition of age (as if they've suddenly discovered it when the cameras turned on for E7) you're raising that is objectionable.
Think of King Theoden riding out to war. We didn't need him pointing out how old he is or questions raised about his fighting ability. The audience surely understood as an older man he wouldn't have the strength of a younger man. That is how you handle it. Nobody has suggested hiding their ages or that we believe they are the main focus, continuing their own personal stories.
luckydube56 said:
Bingowings said:
It's called Star Wars not Star Tea-dance. It can't and shouldn't be a 'feel good' movie though it could have upbeat moments (just hopefully not so many goofy slapstick comedy moments).
I'm not talking slap stick per se but I do think it will very much have that same feel in the Kingdom of the Crystal Skulls movie where Indy, at every step, begins to realize he is just getting too old.
There will be action and there will be comedy and depending on how much of each they use, it could be really good and it could be really bad.
I expect this movie (Ep 7 only) to serve two purposes:
1.Service the fans who miss the characters even if they're old.
2.Ween the fans off those characters and onto new ones by playing the 'they're just too old' card.
Anyone who hasnt paid attention wouldn't realize how much of the comic element there is in the films. The whole notion of "out of the fryer and into the frying pan" is going to be played out with a crew of geriatrics. Why do you think they're being asked to get into shape...to watch them sit on their duffs and give counsel?
In fact something tells me the old cast will be in some way directly though inadvertently responsible for the perils the younger cast will face.
The sole purpose of the movie should be to be a great movie in the spirit of the original movies.
Obvious jokes are not funny. It makes a mockery of the story to put people in a movie just to constantly talk about how they're old. I think they should go out of their way to avoid age jokes.
We know there was humor in Star Wars. From little things like Chewbacca yelling at the mouse droid, R2's idle whistles, to comments about Luke being short for a Stormtrooper from a woman who was tortured, her home planet destroyed, and then awaiting execution. It was not the fans who missed the prevalent humor. A bunch of jokes about Han Solo being older than "space dirt" will not be a service to anyone who likes Star Wars. We don't need to be "weened" off of any characters, we need to enjoy the new ones and appreciate the story arcs of all of them. We don't need to be convinced to not care about the old characters.
I avoided commenting on this once, having a good chuckle at SilverWook's good response, but you're on the wrong track.
adywan said:
Just seen this:
http://www.hollywood.com/news/movies/55030149/star-wars-episode-vii-storyboards
So they get 4 of "the most prominent Star Wars fans in all of Star Wars fandom" to describe how they think Episode 7 should open and then they got an artist to draw storyboards. Only TFN would start with an opening heavily influenced by the crappy prequels that, quite frankly, sound like the most boring piece of crap opening since TPM. But NOT ONE of them even got how a Star Wars film should open. It's been tradition that it opens with the crawl, the pan down and a spaceship.
*sigh*
Oh God that was awful. I feel like there are people out there who recognize something is popular but they don't understand what makes it good; in fact they don't like it that much but they play along. They think they will make it even "better" but end up making a mockery of it instead. I've seen it with TV shows with unexpected popularity, where all of a sudden it's like some third party comes in and drastically changes it, distorts it, not understanding the simple qualities that made it so great in the first place.
. . . but this is the point where I feel like a hopeless high schooler and have no idea how I am suppose to act from here on.
Most interesting part. Many guys get stuck at hopeless high schooler mode just trying to get a girl. At least you make it to a higher level. I'm inept at getting women. That said, I've been in a monogamous relationship for quite awhile. So, it's not like I try to get women now. I'm jealous of you anyhow ;[
Like Jack Nicholson at an awards show.
Bingowings said:
Made some Jam today, loads of blackberries this year. Next year I shall do the same with the strawberries in the summer.
Sounds awfully political, beware the ender.
My mother makes blackberry jam too. Strawberry is my favorite.
I don't think we (the common people) are supposed to understand this, but I would like to believe it's mind-blowingly fascinating.
What stands out to me is the quote, "You can easily do, on paper, computations that were infeasible even with a computer before."
And, "The new geometric version of quantum field theory could also facilitate the search for a theory of quantum gravity that would seamlessly connect the large- and small-scale pictures of the universe."
The idea that a practically impossible problem might suddenly by solved by looking at it in a different way, perhaps using a relatively simple tool, does have broader applicability.
That maybe alternative histories (suggested in my other links) and future possibilities might be able to be calculated in terms of likelihood.
As for alternative history, scientists are at a loss to explain why global warming has not occurred as predicted. We can imagine an alternative history where humanity collectively took the issue deadly serious 20-30 years ago and drastically reduced greenhouse gas production (more drastically than we have, I mean) and now scientists would point at the lacking warming as proof that they were right.
Tangentially-related is this take on addressing the often recognized mental health issues behind mass shootings that have occurred. That's a problem that I think most shrug their shoulders at, not knowing exactly how we can address it. And there are civil liberty concerns for drugging/institutionalizing people for mental health issues. Charles Krauthammer poses a good question in response:
I know the civil libertarian arguments. I know that involuntary commitment is outright paternalism. But paternalism is essential for children because they don’t have a fully developed rational will. Do you think Alexis was in command of his will that night in Newport?
Any thoughts, ender?
TV's Frink said:
Leonardo said:
Unlike you.
Come here to [REDACTED] and say that to my face!
You have your moments. Not many of them, but you do have them ;)
So, what's up with that guy? ^
Bingowings said:
If the legal and cultural response to unwanted tactile contact with a child is way beyond the same offense to an adult where do you go with rape?
If you use the highest possible sanction against rape where do you go with multiple rapes or torture or multiple rape with torture and a side order of serial murder?
I don't get it. I don't really see what the problem is. Maybe someone else can help out. But here is an enlightened perspective that broadens the scale for you.
Israel began in 1948, it's one of those European made up countries like Kuwait.
Or Scotland for that matter.
As such it has less history than America and most of it is as horrid as countries a thousand times older.
I do wonder what peaceful nations you have in mind.
Religion is a thing it's neither good nor bad in of itself beyond what people do with it.
It's irrational nature makes it easier for people to use it to justify doing unspeakable things but it also can be used to motivate people to do amazing things.
Like nationalism really.
And like nationalism people are irrationally attached to it.
You can believe in a god, pray, do charitable deeds etc without belonging to the exclusive club of a single religion or cult.
You can live in a country and even enjoy it without throwing yourself into pomp of patriotism.
All group allegiances lead to sectarianism (we see this console wars and 'franchise' wars).
Actions based purely on the outsider not being an insider.
That has to be a bad thing.
I do think all the modern "communities" are absurd. Belonging and believing do not seem irrational to me.
Bingowings said:
Dawkins said :
“One day – I must have been about 11 – there was a master in the gallery with me. He pulled me onto his knee and put his hand inside my shorts. He did no more than have a little feel, but it was extremely disagreeable … as well as embarrassing,” he told the publication. “As soon as I could wriggle off his lap, I ran to tell my friends, many of whom had had the same experience with him. I don’t think he did any of us any lasting damage, but some years later he killed himself.”
“I am very conscious that you can’t condemn people of an earlier era by the standards of ours,”"Just as we don’t look back at the 18th and 19th centuries and condemn people for racism in the same way as we would condemn a modern person for racism, I look back a few decades to my childhood and see things like caning, like mild pedophilia, and can’t find it in me to condemn it by the same standards as I or anyone would today.”
“The most notorious cases of pedophilia involve rape and even murder, and because we attach the label ‘pedophilia’ to the same things when they’re just mild touching up, we must beware of lumping all pedophiles into the same bracket,”
I don't read that as a defense of pedophilia rather a plea for balance.
He speaks from his own experience and has formed a general opinion.
Men, women and children frequently get touched in ways they would prefer not to. But to equate that with rape because the recipient is a child is noncesense.
A "balance" of what kind I wonder. That he doesn't feel irreparably harmed and that he suspects many of his classmates were not irreparably harmed means what exactly? I think his premise is flawed; I think people already recognize the difference between "mild touching up" and rape, they simply find both deplorable. Does he think some such crimes deserve a slap on the wrist? I do take issue with some ways that our society and legal system handles these issues...but his starting point is sketchy.
He is also making a statement about how we view the past.
Getting back on topic somewhat in Biblical times 12 year olds married 30 year olds.
If Mary and Joseph were real people this was probably their age range.
We don't approve now but it was the norm then.
The endurance of a meme says nothing about it's moral qualities.
Certain ethnic stereotypes have endured for centuries but that doesn't make them good or accurate.
Well maybe religion isn't so bad either :P
Dawkins spoke at my college and I told a friend later that Hawkins spoke at my college, that was embarrassing. Mormons and JW's do seem similar in some ways. The one thing I find admirable is that they do go out into the world to make religion just a thing that do in their heads and in churches. There are other ways of making religion real, of course. On Yom Kippur, I went to a synagogue and the sermon touched on what is happening in Syria and the history of Israel. Interesting to me when religion is tied to the world outside the church.
To me - a person of unspecified beliefs - the spread of Christianity is pretty incredible. That it virtually obliterated all other belief systems throughout Europe and then had the fortune the spread throughout the New World is impressive. And if it were not for the threats of death, imprisonment, and reeducation it's hard to say how much further it would spread around the world. Based purely on success, I don't know how atheists like Dawkins who ascribe to memetics can see Christian religion as a bad thing. However, due to Dawkins recent defense of pedophilia, I refuse to buy his books ;|
And for a comment directed at Bingo: JW's can be persnickety. Still, it reminds me of the time a knife salesperson came to the door and offered to do a demonstration. She had a pair of scissor and showed how they could cut a penny in half! My father...being his self...grabbed an old pair of scissors from the drawer and also proceeded to cut a penny in half.
...things you will see, other places, the future, the past...old friends long gone..
Religion!
In the aftermath of Yom Kippur, I am wondering how Christianity spread all over the world. Sort of incredible that a Jewish religion gained such traction, given the pressures against it from the start. Original Judaism certainly never gained such power. I'm interested in this from a historical or even memetic perspective. Any thoughts, informed or otherwise?
Very funny, all. I especially liked your descriptions Jaitea.
Star Wars Episode VII: I Have a Bad Feeling About This
Star Wars Episode VIII: It's A Trap
Star Wars Episode IX: Nooooooooooooooooo
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For serious consideration, my working title for my E1 rewrite: Balance of Peace
Ask "what are you having?"
I don't know, come up with something better!
But no, that wasn't it...
Question, relevant to something I posted in Politics (not in the way you're probably thinking - ie not related to abortion), but I'm tired of Politics for now and this is less political: if you were working in a bar and a pregnant woman walked in and ordered a drink, what would you do?
Warbler said:
I was just think the same thing the other night.
LOL what? I know Warbler doesn't joke. What did I miss?!
