Monroville

well, the hardest part is just going to be DOING it.  I've seen what Ady is capable of, and like he said, if he can learn how to do all of those things from the ground up anyone else can too - its just a matter of time, which I have...... but I'm also a professional procrastinator.


there's me.. laziness versus imagination!  Who will win?

There are things that DEFINITELY need a fix, like the coffee mug and the control arm on the Nostromo model when it is making its landing... and just as with the EMPIRE:R list I will include links to pictures and youtube videos to help describe what I'm referring to.

In regards to the COCOON SCENE and RIPLEY/DALLAS LOVE AFFAIR:

as mentioned before, Ripley and Dallas were supposed to be lovers (roughly about a few weeks into the relationship).  While I can take it or leave it, I think that IF the Cocoon sequence is to be put back in, there should also be some relevance to it.

The original scene (seen for the most part here) has a much more emotional Sigourney Weaver, which is what I wanted to play on: the idea that it is bad enough to see your fellow co-workers mutilated (some of whom you may have actually liked, or at least didn't want to see get killed in a horrible fashion) but to end it off with having to kill someone you are just beginning to become attached to (especially to kill them by burning them alive) is pretty creepy.  And if there is one thing ALIEN has in spades it is creepiness.

Now the problem with the link above is that someone edited together the DC version of the scene with the version on the first dvd release.  I'm going to see if I can't find the dvd version unmolested and post a comparison link...

I've also noted that there will have to be some editing to make this work:

(1) it will begin with Ripley finding Parker and Lambert's bodies (and her horrified expression), BUT rather than immediately cut to her running down the corridors, I plan on doing some tricky editing: I want to show someone on the floor with their head on their knees in a crouched position and maybe see if I can find some Sigourney Weaver dialogue to the effect of "what do I do?" (the idea that at least for that one moment, she's exhausted and at a loss).  "She" would be out of focus, with the focus being on an intercom on the right foreground (probably would only be able to see the edge of it) - which is where we begin to hear the moaning...

(2) taking close-up scenes of Weaver looking up from the stair well and activating the self-destruct device later on, she goes to the intercom.  Playing with some of her "hand shots" with said S-D device or on the shuttle, I can alter the metal plate to have a number pad, speaker and small viewscreen with a vector map of the Nostromo.  Creating some FX similar to the 3-D photo machine in BLADE RUNNER (the effect when Deckard moved in to different areas on the photo), you see the square and four lines converge on the location of the moaning, which tells her where its coming from.

(3) taking some corridor shots either from ALIEN or other sci-fi movies that may fit, have the camera do a slow pan as we can hear her running down the corridors (say start the sounds close and have them run away from us and get more distant)

(4) "reverse" the opening "ladder shot" so it appears she is going down into it, which then leads to the cocoon scene.

(5) this would further explain why Ripley is freaking out and cursing when running to the S-D device, since now she knows she is completely alone.  It would also keep the tension from the ship counting down to self-destruct from being broken, as it would place the cocoon scene BEFORE the process is started as opposed to directly in the middle of it - which DOES slow the movie down.

The problem here is I will have to lift out the wailing siren in the background of the cocoon scene, which could be a pain. 

I will try to whip up some story boards and images to help further explain what I intend to do...

Hello gang,

We’re all familiar with Adywan and the STAR WARS: REVISITED series (or soon to be a series).  I was wondering what any of you may think could use the “revisited” touch so to speak.

It may take me a while to get around to, but I plan on working on an ALIEN and DUNE: REVISITED to essentially recreate said films in a similar fashion as to what Ady has done for ANH.  Not just simply correct goofs or continuity errors, but add in new FX work and new/alternate shots.

Here are my plans so far:

ALIEN: REVISITED

GENERAL:

1. Color Correction
2. Continuity errors
3. new star fields
4. improved planet FX (clouds on distant shots, maybe enhancements in window views on LV-426 surface)
5. Image Jittering
6. enhanced computer screen images
7. possibly add coccon scene (see details below); otherwise, it will be in essense the theatrical cut.
8. This will be 720p: I want to use a hi-def source, so if I can’t find one from an HD channel I will be waiting for the blu-ray release.

SOUND/MUSIC:

1. enhance some of the bass elements
2. enhance/alter computer sound FX, especially some of the more “outlandish” sounds.
3. Ridley Scott originally wanted Tomita to create the score; I may see if I can create an alternate score to try to emulate what something from Tomita at the time would have sounded like.  Regardless, whether I do this or not, I will have a Goldsmith edition.

COMPUTER AWAKENS to LV-426 APPROACH:

1. disappearing/appearing coffee mug will be fixed
2. computer screens will get make-over; may consider altering consoles in some way to have more viewscreens and less switches.
3. bouncing helmet in background will be stabilized/static.
4. may add slight blue-grey tint to early part to emphasize below-zero atmosphere, as well as possible frost on some parts of computers.  When the hypersleep chamber activates, the lighting will go from the bluish tint to the natural one to indicate heat and life.
5. create new starfield outside Nostromo window views during Lamberts transmission scene
6. enhance shots of Nostromo + Refinery (especially space areas around models)

LANDING ON LV-426:

1. show LV-426 system entrance similar to RETURN OF THE JEDI when rebel fleet jumps to Endor - stars would slow and stop to indicate N+R slowing to sub-light, and the planet+moons in background will grow slowly in size to indicate movement,
2. same FX enhancements in 2nd N+R “profile” shot
3. smoke will be deleted when Nostromo detaches from docking arm
4. enhanced starfield and other FX during Nostromo outer orbit approach
5. adding background cloud layers behind/underneath Nostromo shots in atmosphere to better indicate depth and speed, or even replace all outside shots with new ones.
6. removing control arm lowering Nostromo model
7. bridge windows will be lit on both the right and left side in landing shot.
8. may alter/enhance landing scene (specifically landing leg scene) to better explain the fireworks on the bridge.<span style=“text-decoration: underline;”></span>
9. when Dallas states, “Kick in the floods”, the following shot has copper clouds (the original color of the atmosphere) - will be tinted blue to match all other outside color schemes.
10. may alter astronauts to look even smaller in comparison to Nostromo landing legs and the Derelict.
11. enhance/improve Nostromo bridge window FX

DERELICT:

1. will try to recreate the overhead window above the Space Jockey per Giger’s original painting

   

   will either insert new shot when Kane looks up or will at least use FX in existing shots to indicate a faint light source from above.

2. will consider altering the outer wall behind the Jockey to be circular per Giger’s painting, as well as add a layer of fog to match the later close-up sequences.

3. enhancing certain elements of the Derelict (such as making the tunnel Kane descends longer) to match internal scenes with external architecture.

4. may slow down Kane’s POV of the face-hugger so we can better see what is happening.

TAKE-OFF to END:

1. new backgrounds in Nostromo model shots (especially the one before Parker says “Walk in the Park!”)
2. new starfields when Nostromo is travelling faster than light
3. computer monitors Ash is viewing will be enhanced
4. early plotpoint had Ripley being Dallas’ lover; if possible, I will be “adding” Ripley laying beside Dallas when Ash calls him in the shuttle (this will set up the cocoon scene later if used)
5. will slightly enhance sound FX during chestbursting - I always heard you can hear it eating at tendons underneath Kane’s chest; well, now you will…
6. slight enhancements to Kane’s funeral scene (mostly starfields below model)
7. background behind Brett will be color corrected to the original film’s appearance (the copper tone will be deleted)
8. may make Brett smaller when standing beside landing leg
9. enhancing/adding background details behind Brett and the Alien ala R2D2 scenes in ANH:R
10. will do some slight editing to the “Dallas in the airshaft” sequence: the camera will close in on him as he descends the ladder, so when he turns the light towards us it will cut to the Alien jump scare (that way we won’t see the Alien stuck in the wall).
11. color correcting to entire “Parker/Lambert are attacked” scene
12. attempt to replace “Brett’s legs” with the proper attire Lambert is wearing (boots not sneakers) when the Alien’s tale moves up between her legs.
13. if I add cocoon scene, it will be the original scene from the 1st dvd and will happen directly after Ripley finds Parker and Lambert dead.
14. removing “camera tracks” in POV shot to ladder well.
15. may enhance engine room scenes in some way
16. may enhance Ripley’s final run to the shuttle (so it doesn’t look like someone with a flamethrower is shooting at her)
17. will enhance/alter “refinery explosion”
18. will edit “final showdown” in shuttle so Ripley’s actions happen simultaneously with the Alien emerging from the alcove.

I would also like to ask those of you who read this if you would like to contribute.  Anyone who has skills in modeling, CGI FX, editing, etc is welcome to work on this, and naturally would be properly credited per any help or work done for this project - which would be greatly appreciated.

In Debate/Suggestions

Bingowings said:

Does Luke actually return in any significant way?

Um, yeah.  It's called: Luke returns "in this movie". 

It's like the title BATMAN RETURNS.  Returns to what?  The movie screen!  Same thing here.  The title is more or less saying Luke is back and is now more Jedi-ier than ever before!  Its speaking to the audience as opposed to defining anything specific in the movie itself, other than Luke is returning from 3 years of no STAR WARS movie related stuff since EMPIRE.

EyeShotFirst said:

It is a return of jedi as a whole. Luke is the first jedi since obi wan died. SO the jedi are back.

- DarthBo said:
By that logic ESB should have been called Return of the Jedi.

Luke is not a full-fledged jedi until RETURN OF THE JEDI.  If EMPIRE got the name change, it would have been called RETURN OF THE STILL LEARNING JEDI WANNABE or RETURN OF THE HEROIC DWEEB or something along those lines.

rcb said:

i'm srry, but revenge is never used in the jedi code, so no changing the title please. i'm putting that title into carbon freeze

You mean like those peaceful Shaolin Monks they were pretty much based on?



- because all of those philosophically minded martial artists NEVER sought revenge... >:D  

Come to think of it, was there ever a movie where a peaceful monk DIDN'T seek revenge for something?

- regardless, I do agree with the points here in that Luke AND Vader don't really want revenge so much as redemption (Luke in the typical meaning of the word, Vader in a more "I'm now the CEO of the Empire as opposed to some old dude's lackey" sort of way). 

Vader wants to rule the Empire but maybe in a more even-handed way (provided of course if that is what it will take to get his son on his side; maybe he just wants to pitch some ball with the kid...I mean he hasn't seen him in @ 20+ years for crissake!!!  Maybe Vader just wants a friend and he's lonely.  Imagine if your best friend was Tarkin or the Emperor.  You think they ever talked about sports or movies?  And can you imagine the conversation on POLITICS? Sheesh!:

Emperor/Tarkin: "What do I believe in? What do I believe in?!  You KNOW what I believe in!  I'm DOING it!
[smacks him on the back of the helmet].)

and Luke wants to prove his father isn't past the point of no return.... because, you know, it would really suck to have to kill YOUR OWN FATHER.

Remember, Vader talks Palpy into giving Luke a chance, which is what Luke tries with Yoda and Ben (who, funnily enough, aren't as willing as Palpy to change their mind... now what does THAT tell you?)

So in the end, both Vader and Luke have fairly positive missions that most likely mean the death of the Emperor, but the end result is essentially family bonding.  I mean they could have backed over the Emperor with a truck and no one would have cared or noticed, just as long as Vader and Luke worked their sh*t out...

adywan said:

Monroville said:

Maybe you could just replace the mountains and/or the AT-ATs, since those would be relatively more stationary than the ground itself.  Even if you didn't "replace" the AT-ATs with new model shots (or from different scenes) could the images of the AT-ATs themselves be worked a bit to appear less faded?

this is what's impossible about it. There are no definite points to track to add anything to the background. the camera is moving all over the place .the only way to fix these shots would be for all outside cockpit elements to be brand new. i would need a lot more space than i have available to create a new snow floor to film.

I know, I know... we ask the impossible (or improbable?)...

But Vaderios had a good point in that the outside cockpit shot he uses in his mock-up comes from the following scene.  I think what V was saying was you could possibly use THAT shot for the cockpit view.

In regards to the camera moving all over the place, you have stable cockpit shots you could use for the cockpit element.  Rather than keep the original shot  or any part of it (such as blue-screening the mock-up background onto the original shot) maybe you could do one of 2 options:

(1) take an earlier cockpit scene (Luke's strafe of the first AT-AT or inside Zev's cockpit during the search) where the camera is stable; delete the external image and replace with the new background.  Afterwards, any sort of camera shakes could be added to recreate the original shot.

(2) take the new mock-up shot but excise the cockpit. There were shots from inside Zev's cockpit when he was searching for Han and Luke where all we saw was the terrain.  You could in essense put the camera right outside the cockpit window so the only element to mess with would be the outside image... as well as add the shaking and other elements afterwards...

sgdelta1771 said:

vaderios said:

XD

I decided to... uhh... play around... haha...

 

You know, I could at least see the red circle in the center (maybe not the green box).  You would think they would have SOME sort of head's up display...

adywan said:

vaderios said:

Ady:

Sure you are going to do something for that :D

I hope always with some more modern panels for the snow speeders.

 

 

Maybe you could just replace the mountains and/or the AT-ATs, since those would be relatively more stationary than the ground itself.  Even if you didn't "replace" the AT-ATs with new model shots (or from different scenes) could the images of the AT-ATs themselves be worked a bit to appear less faded?

vaderios said:

Speaking of destruction, im wondering  if a little brainstorm about what destruction  the bombers can do.

See it as a test.

I always wanted to see something like when the asteroid hits paris in armagedon here. Not something apocalyptic just the style.

From the other hand we can have some broken stones/debris combined with some molten ones in an electrified explosion.

-Angel

now this is something that i did think long and hard about and i think they got it right just as it is. I don't see the bombs as being destructive at all. Why, if they want to capture the falcon, would they use destructive weapons that would possibly cause all sorts of internal damage to the inside of the asteroid and possibly destroy the falcon in the process. I believe that they are just very low yield bombs, maybe just flash bombs,  that are only meant to draw the falcon out. more of an audible attack.

At the same time, America didn't exactly use light bombs to flush out the VC... if the Falcon is hiding deep inside an asteroid even a tenth the size of the moon, low yeild bombs aren't going to do much of anything if you're trying to draw someone out of there hiding place.  It's like trying to flush someone out of a house; you start a big fire on the opposite end you want to catch them coming out of, while you wait on the non-fire end.  The TIE bombers would be dropping heavy bombs to crack the asteroid open from the opposite side the Falcon was last seen on, which would be powerful enough for the Falcon to feel and provide the proper motivation.  These are still bombs, not the Death Star, so it's not like they're going to get a lucky shot ala STAR TREK 3 and blow the asteroid up with one bomb.

Besides, it would be nice to see the bombs actually explode like bombs.

vaderios said:

Ady:

Sure you are going to do something for that :D

-Angel

Something else too: shouldn't we see more than 2 AT-ATs here?  Whether the other 3 would be on the left or one of the AT-ATs would be close to Luke (say we see the body on the left side of the image as Luke is passing it up to head at the back 2 AT-ATs behind Veer's main 3) we should see more of them, as they weren't that spread out.

Ripplin said:

That's an early Death Star to the right, too. One of the old pimple-infested ones.

Here's another angle of the same models:

So where were those pics taken?

LOL!  That's what I was I was thinking ... either me or Kurgan... and as he would say: "there can be only one!"  <:)

All kidding aside, are we still going to receive screencaps once every 7 to 14 days?  If not, no problemo.... I can somewhat patiently await till (hopefully) "winter" of 2010 (wasn't there supposed to be a monolith around Jupiter by this time?  BTW, what ever happened to the space program?).

adywan said:

my patience, i'm afraid,  has run out. you may now become only the second person to have been put on my ignore list.

So who was the first one?  And second that on the TARDIS.  I think I'd use it to go to summer of 2010 so I could see how EMPIRE:R looks on the big screen!  <:)

So how is this coming along?  I see on the youtube trailer that it's already on D-m-noid?

Bingowings said:

It's very rough (I haven't traced around all the the elements and corrected the lighting and colour balance perfectly and one is still more purple than than red) but going by these rough mockups it might be doable (it makes the duel like the classic preview poster too) hopefully someone can do a more convincing attempt:

This (or something like this) would definitely help in making the throne room less.... boring.  I mean really; this is the main guy's throne room?  It looks like the equivalent of those cheap K-Mart partical board desks.

At least the Jedi had a temple!  This guy has what, a loading dock?

guitarfan01 said:

 

 

end of 128 INT. CORUSCANT-CHANCELLOR’S OFFICE-EARLY EVENING 

*MACE WINDU is defenestrated by Palpy's lightning*

ANAKIN sits down heavily, in shock at the turn of events he has precipitated.

PALPATINE: You are fulfilling your destiny, Anakin. Become my apprentice. Learn to use the dark side of the Force. 

ANAKIN: I will do whatever you ask.  Just help me save Padme's life.

ANAKIN kneels before Palpatine.

PALPATINE: Good, good.

 

 

And that is where the problem begins: to have Windu killed right in front of you and then the guy who you protected essentially turns around and says, "Yup, he was right; I AM the bad guy" and then Anakin goes "Okay!"... well, that is about the most WTF moment I can think of.

I like someone else's idea of Anakin charging at Palps and having it cut away as Palps fires his lightning; the idea being that you could essentially "kill" Anakin right there and from that point on show Darth Vader (in costume or just darken/alter Anakin's face for the rest of the movie) or add a scene or two of Anakin being "conditioned" by Palps (with or without said Kaiber Crystal that was used to torture him per my earlier suggestion) - this would make Anakin even more tragic in that he never really fell to the DSOF so much as was brainwashed into it.

- something else I just thought of too: when Luke is getting zapped by Palps, regardless of Ady or anyone putting audio or video "flashbacks" when Vader is looking on, to have the corollary to Anakin being zapped when Windu is killed (which led to his torture, confession and conversion), it would make the torture of Han in EMPIRE as well as his inflection on seeing Palps do to his son the beginning of the same process of what was done to him would add to Vader's character ie. that Vader understands the power of torture in that it was mental and force-powered torture that converted him to the point of being a willing believer and thus when doing it to Han or Leia - be it ANH or EMPIRE- he almost relishes it.  Yet when it happens to Luke, with the added implication of what is to come AFTERWARDS (for the Prequel edits, maybe take scenes from A CLOCKWORK ORANGE and replace Malcolm McD with Hayden) and THAT is why Vader kills Palpatine.

Then again, Palps was intending to just straight-up kill Luke, but you get the idea.  Maybe a corollary could be made between the Windu scene and Luke - have Windu not thrown out the window quite as suddenly but have him tortured a bit before being sent to his death, with Anakin watching helplessly (maybe being paralyzed with a lightning blast before Windu gets it, so while Ani is sitting upright, paralyzed but conscious, he has to watch what happens).

SomethingStarWarsRelated said:

Monroville said:

That could be played upon - in fact, if the Jedi are supposed to fight "fair", maybe Qui-Jon tells Obi "No!  I will deal with him myself!" and it is a Jedi rule that you never play unfairly (duels have to be one-on-one and/or Jedi are taught to handle things as individuals).  Maul during the fight (with or without hand gestures) has metal parts fly into Qui-Jon and uses his dark side force powers to "boomerang" his double blade at Qui-Jon ala the Rock Man in NINJA SCROLL.

During this, Obi watches impatiently and at the first sign of Maul "cheating" he rushes in to help Qui-Jon, essentially breaking Jedi standards to do the obvious: help his master.

Hell, how hard would it be to make Qui-Jon's hair white or silver to reflect that he is much older and thus capable of being taken down?

 

Welll this would fit well with what happens in AOTC "no i'm taking him now!" "no anakin! no!" It's Obiwan talking from experience this way. But then how do you explain the Dooku fight in ROTS? Hmmm

That would be easy: the Jedi are there to stop the "rebellion", being that they serve the Republic.  Part of the tragedy is that they don't realize they are now working for the bad guys.  In fact, again if redubbing is done, maybe Dooku could say things along the line of: "You don't know what you're doing!  Or who you are working for!"  In fact, have him say the OPPOSITE of taunts, to where he is questioning the Jedi's ethics and motives and is planting seeds of doubt or ideas as to what to look into.

In the fight aboard the starship that Palpatine is a prisoner on, Dooku could have captured Palps to torture him for information as well as a confession - thus, when the Jedi show up, they are on the same rescue mission but now an added element could be that the Jedi put a death sentence on Dooku for his final action of treason against the republic and what he's done to Palps (maybe scars could be put onto Ian McDarmond and this could explain how he looks the way he does - maybe something like the Kaiber crystal could be inserted into the script, not just to explain the object Padme gives to the Nemoidian chief per the alternate plot of Jar-Jar watching over it and the humans stealing it, but also bring back the SPLINTER OF THE MIND'S EYE element that it enhances force powers.  In this case, Dooku steals it from the Nemoidians and uses it ala the DARK CRYSTAL to suck life energy from Palpatine, hence the old withered look.  Since Palps is sitting in a chair, one could clone the Emperor from JEDI and use FX to match the dialogue to his mouth).

vaderios said:

ImperialFighter said:

Check that 1st Adywan clip I posted again, vaderios.

I believe it IS the 'interior' of the 'Bridge' that is shaking, rather than the exterior....

Based on what you post i made that clip ;)

The exterior is moving along with the interior :)

 

-Angel

 

But isn't that how it would look?  Usually when "camera shake" is involved, it is supposed to infer that "you" are the camera POV and are thus being put into the action.  Thus, if the bridge shakes, everything is going to shake from your POV, including what is outside the window(s).

On another note:
Ady; I know this was brought up @ 100 pages back or so, but the scene looking out the Falcon's cockpit window when Han says "Yes, I see them!  2 Star Destroyers..." (0:17 to 0:19), is there any way to make the SDs slightly bigger and/or show they speeding up and actually manuevering into position to give them some more life (as opposed to 2 fairly static dots)? 

Also consider how close the SDs are at 0:30 to 0:35, as in: even if they start out at the distance we first see them, in order to have them THAT close to the Avenger at 0:30, shouldn't we see those 2 far-off SDs moving VERY FAST towards the Falcon in order to explain how they closed in so fast?

Not to mention:

It's just a time lag issue, as in: the time the camera takes to cut from Luke to Dack, the snow speeder they are in is already moving past the same AT-AT, so there is nothing wrong with the scene (unless you want to add some clouds or more blue to it).  >:)

ChainsawAsh said:

While Spielberg directing "Jedi" would have been fantastic, the real undoing of the awesomeness that would have been "Jedi" was Gary Kurtz leaving (being fired?) as producer.  After that Lucas went on a big power trip and threw out all the outlines he and Kurtz had banged out together after ANH, and started from scratch.  And look what we ended up with.

I really, really, really want to read the original ESB and ROTJ outlines that were written after ANH ... but I don't think it'll ever happen, sadly.

Well, I guess look at it this way: in the earlier drafts there was no "slave Leia", and thus no slave girl outfit.

G E Predator said:

It probably would have been if Spielberg had gotten to direct it, as was Lucas' first choice.  I blame those vultures at the Director's Guild at the time for trying to pull Empire from the theater and fining Lucas -- and even Kirshner -- for simply having all of the screen credits at the end of the movie.

I always heard David Lynch was supposed to direct JEDI (it was when he either left or was replaced that he went on to work on DUNE).  Regardless, did the DG really try to pull EMPIRE for having the credits at the end, being that it was no different than STAR WARS: ANH did when Lucas had far less clout?

Bingowings said:

fishmanlee said:

could he use the force and manipulate it to go like boomerang like in super star wars return of the jedi?

One of the problems with TPM is it's action sequences already resemble a computer game.

The duel particularly so with all those pointless platforms and shield gates, it's a real shame that there was no dialogue in there either, surely the Jedi would want to know more about this mysterious attacker.

If Maul used the Force to throw his sabre around what's stopping the Jedi from using the Force to snatch it off him?

There are two of them and one of him.

 

That could be played upon - in fact, if the Jedi are supposed to fight "fair", maybe Qui-Jon tells Obi "No!  I will deal with him myself!" and it is a Jedi rule that you never play unfairly (duels have to be one-on-one and/or Jedi are taught to handle things as individuals).  Maul during the fight (with or without hand gestures) has metal parts fly into Qui-Jon and uses his dark side force powers to "boomerang" his double blade at Qui-Jon ala the Rock Man in NINJA SCROLL.

During this, Obi watches impatiently and at the first sign of Maul "cheating" he rushes in to help Qui-Jon, essentially breaking Jedi standards to do the obvious: help his master.

Hell, how hard would it be to make Qui-Jon's hair white or silver to reflect that he is much older and thus capable of being taken down?

Bingowings said:

There are two of them and one of him.

 

yeah... real Jedi like there... they can't get revenge but they can gang up on people!  Nothin' like a fair fight!  >:)

I say maybe dialogue could be worked in by having Maul and Qui taunt each other but insert said dialogue when we see the other's face, ie. when they speak, we see the back of their head - that way you don't have to worry about lip synching or 'cantina-izing".   Or maybe you could do it a little like the film DUNE where the voices are faded and a little echoe-y ie. Maul and Qui are taunting or communicating via there minds.

Also.. I don't know how you would go about this... but maybe the fight needs some editing and alternate FX work.   Hell, for that matter, Qui-Jon kind of goes out almost as punkish as Boba.  He IS supposed to be a Jedi master and he walks right into that killing blow.  Is there any way someone could:

(1) reflect Obi's fateful decision in ANH and have Qui do a pause, look at Obi-Wan, make the sloppy plunge but change the expression on his face as if he knew it was coming, insert the same shock music when Luke sees Obi buy it, have the shield wall (or replacement) take a little longer to open for Obi to reflect (and the music to play out) before he goes into the fight?  In fact, maybe someone (hint, hint, Ady) could have Qui-Jon's robes collapse into a heap when he gets hit and maybe insert an altered "Vader poking at Obi's robes with his foot" scene directly afterwards to show Maul doing to same thing.

(2) Considering Ady used the DOTF music during the Obi/Vader fight in ANH:R, I would have NO PROBLEM AT ALL having the same exact shock music play for Obi when seeing Qui-Jon die as when Luke sees Obi-Wan die.  Using music ques to tie the 2 series together I think would work quite well, especially if there is a point to the music usage.

(3) hell, for that matter, the shield walls could be edited out and just have Maul wound Obi to the point that it takes him a while to get to the tunnel Qui-Jon and Maul are in.  Before Obi runs up, we have some taunting and Maul hinting at something bigger (and/or the destruction of the Jedi), with Qui-Jon weakened due to injury or Sith mental attacks or whatnot - regardless, he is in a position that he knows he either can't win, or Maul points out that the council doesn't trust or believe in him -

- BUT Qui-Jon knows that Obi is considered by the council to be their top student so to speak, so his sacrifice is to galvanize Obi in Qui-Jon's quest to discover what is behind the "phantom menace".

- maybe some extra dialogue earlier could reflect Obi as an "agent Scully" type sent by the council to keep an eye on Qui-Jon and to turn him in if he disobeys the council.  Obi is on the fence, but with Qui-Jon the "spooky Mulder" of the Jedi council he is still not sure if he is just a paranoid conspiracy theorist or he's right.  When Maul "kills" him, Obi makes his decision and now the council has to listen and follow through with what they didn't want to touch with a 10-light year pole.

_____________________

If there was one major problem amongst the rest (uh, bad acting?), it is that things seem to happen without any sort of drama to them:  Qui-Jon dies, Naboo is attacked, Nemoidians are killed en masse, they all win, Ani falls in love, they are in peril, things happen and explode, etc., etc. etc. and you're there just shrugging your shoulders at it all. 

When Obi-Wan "dies" in ANH, I don't know about you but when I was 7 it punched me in the gut!  It was like seeing my grandfather get killed on screen (which is funny.. okay, maybe "that" isn't ... but in FELLOWSHIP OF THE RING, of which Lucas ripped this scene from, when Gandalf does his "Fly, you fools!' and then falls into the abyss after the Balrog, my sister was crying like a baby.  What do you know?  Even though we've seen it before, it still works every time).

It is more than just the "I AM READING OFF OF A TELEPROMPTER (inset cylon voice inflections here)" line reading, the bad attempt at humor ("now I know why I hate flying!", "Oh no, not again!" "There he goes (jumping out of flying cars) again.. that wacky Anakin"), the things that SHOULD be dramatic but fall flatly (the AOTC padme assassination attempt scene), the music to it all, which at times did NOT reflect in any way what was happening on screen... it was ALL OF THE ABOVE. 

Hence all of the talk of redubbing damn near all of the actors and actresses, damn near redoing the entire music score AND sound FX, as well as some crazy editing and new FX work, much less damn near re-writing the scripts... all in all, these movies are just Epic Fail just to nail the same emotional and mental high points of what Lucas accomplished 20+ years ago. 

Seems to me the cafeteria master has become the student, and he's just been served a three-course meal of "let the wookie do it", if by wookie you mean fans who have no money but a lot of soul...and time.

Bingowings said:

I remember back around the time of TPM some magazine carried a picture of a plain steel looking Fett helmet and armour which (like Jengo) had no dings or dents in it. No paint just shiny metal.

Did I dream it or does anyone else remember what I'm talking about?

 

On a different note it kind of came up over in the ESB/ROTJ wishlist thread so I'm going to post it here.

A lot of people don't like the dreams/flashforwards/visions in ROTS and feel they are out of place in the Star Wars universe.

At the risk of being branded a heretic, the cave sequence in ESB is a form of dream/vision but it's done in a completely different way.

If we saw Anakin's dreams of his mother and Padme in a more stylised and dreamlike manner with symbolism and ambiguity (rather than just a clipshow with a wobbly distortion) like Luke's vision of his head inside Vader's mask would that be more acceptable?

I seem to remember that in the novelisation of AOTC Anakin dreamt of his mother turning into glass and shattering (or was that somewhere else?).

These could become mini-projects in their own right.

How could they be done?

It's our chance to put a bit of David Lynch into Star Wars all those years after he turned down ROTJ.

A way you could work this in is in the same way it was done in EMPIRE: it is a "Kobiyashi Maru" in the Jedi temple that Yoda sends aspiring students through.  You could FX in a tree in the middle of the Jedi temple surrounded by a mist or swampy area (not just a simple tree mind you).  Anakin walks in and has his vision - maybe he fights a black cloaked figure or multiple cloaked figures.  When he cuts them down, he sees that they all have faces of those he cares about: Obi, Padme, his mom, etc.

And I vote for the Jedi Temple blowing up and being blamed on the Seperatists/Federation ala Ben_Danger's and Bingowing's suggestions.

in fact, could we change "seperatists" with "rebels" or "federation"?  For some reason the word Seperatist just doesn't have the same oomph as the other words when describing either an outside or internal threat to the Republic/Empire.  In fact I think it would be fitting to call them the Rebel Alliance, to show that they started under Count Dooku as well as show that they had money behind them from the get-go.  That could actually play Dooku to be a tragic anti-hero of a sorts, if the past idea of him being a rogue Jedi were to be used.

guitarfan01 said:

This is mildly off the topic of Bobago Fett, that is, it has nothing to do with it (If we're taking votes, I'm definately on the side of it being Boba in both AotC and ESB, I think it adds to the character, and I love the mockups ben_danger has put together), but on the subject of Order 66, is it possible to have the Jedi Purge initiated by Palpatine behind Anakin's back?  Leave off all the "we must now kill all the Jedi" drivel; I never thought it was well-reasoned, and even in Anakin's very suggestible state at the time, I don't believe that he would just rush off to kill younglings.  If Sidious initiates it behind his back, he can then say to Anakin later that he had evidence that the Jedi as a group were dangerous or whatever, blah, blah, blah.  The way Anakin just agrees to execute them all without even a flinch doesn't match the character in the rest of the prequels.  I would, however, believe that he would rush off to Mustafar to execute the Separatist leaders on Palpatine's say-so.  There's also so much extraneous dialogue in that sequence, I would suggest removing as much of Palpy's figurative mustache twirling as possible.

Even the storming of the temple might work as part of the basic order 66 montage if we leave off the scene of Anakin killing the kids (say, if we could get Palpatine to say something like "Go to the temple.  Then go to Mustafar and wipe out the Separatist leaders" (a paraphrase).  Anakin and the 501st might even be able to take the temple without much blood: after all, Anakin is a member of the Jedi Council and a legally-recognized advisor to the Chancellor.  The slaughter could begin after he leaves, and he could ostensibly be there just to revoke their "badges" or military commissions or something.  I don't know.  I'm mostly just brainstorming right now.  I will see if I can work on a script or slap a basic proof-of-concept edit on it.

If all of this didn't hinge on the logical leap of "the Jedi Council didn't tell me about their plans to confront Palpatine, and Mace tried to make the same choice about Sidious as I did about Dooku, so obviously now I need to slaughter every last child in the Jedi Temple" I wouldn't have a problem with it, but as it is, I can't take it at all.

Ahhh, this brings some interesting ideas.... what if Palpatine tells Anakin that the Seperatists/Federation raided the Jedi Temple and killed everyone?  That would surely send him into a rage to kill every last one of them (the Seperatists, that is).  Then, when Obi shows up to "bring them to justice", Obi tells him Palpatine set him up and it was P that had the Jedi temple destroyed.

I would also have Tarkin be the one who finds Anakin/Vader near death and brings him back to life; thus, the loyalty seen in ANH and why he is willing to play second fiddle to Tarkin.  You still wouldn't have to show the Vader suit, but just showing Tarkin with a group of troopers coming over to Anakin's body would be enough.

Regarding the TIE fighters laser fire in the asteroid sequence:

What was throwing it off for me was the slower pace of the laser blasts.  Maybe if the laser blasts were made to be consistent with those in ANH (with the faster rate of fire and the sound FX) it would work better...

Regardless, I would like to see the TIEs have a faster rate of firing to match with those in ANH in general, even if just for the continuity.

DuTwan said:

End of the day ppl jango as boba wont work and hopefully this pic will say why

 

The uniforms are different in regards to armour on the legs, boba was known for his own gun and not two pistols, different jetpack and always it would miss the well known should cloth thing lmao. Besides this i will try and change Jango into Boba with the power of the Photoshop! :D

Also remember that EMPIRE is roughly 18 years after ROTS; I'm sure Boba/Jango could have had his armor fixed and repainted (and then scuffed, damaged and repaired again) during that time to account for any differences.  Think Mad Max from the first movie to the third one: while he still has the basic leather and that one shoulder-ma-pad (and leg brace), his outfit does change due to wear and tear.

- just read the previous page and the point was made multiple times...
regardless, maybe you could make some more subtle changes:

(1) don't worry about the damage or scratched paint; that happens when he is in loner phase anyways.
(2) change the clothing and gloves underneath the armor to the whitish color Boba wears.  The outside could be repainted or armor parts lost to previous battles. 
(3) maybe change the helmet color around the visor to red and the outer cheek areas to dark green.  It could be that Boba had the rest of the armor painted the lighter green to hide minor damage to it, not to mention a bounty hunter doesn't want anything reflective and shiny to give himself away.
(4) add the mandalore insignia on Jango-Boba's shoulder guard.  Hell, maybe you could have a scene with multiple Boba's in a room to show the Mandalore force, with Boba getting his assignment.

vaderios said:

Executor Bridge! How wonderful :)

Pity i cant say the same for ROTJ version of it.

Based on ESB matte-set then:

I post that in some big rez to see some details or what.

I hate dead blacks...

This shot is going to have to be worked on for many reasons. For one thing: why is that station right in the middle of the friggen walkway?!  Think about it for a second: take the opening bridge shot in EMPIRE and stick a guy on a console right in the dead center of the set.  Is Vader going to have to say "excuse me" every time he wants to pace up and down the center walkway to keep an eye on the other guys?

And is that imp officer slacking off on the far left?  Good thing he's wearing black or Vader would would notice and wake him up rather rudely...

Does it matter that I see the Studio Set instead of space?

 

-Angel

And that is provided the shot is kept (always hated that a fighter no bigger than a mini-cooper took out the Executor, which is what, as big as Manhattan island?).  I still vote for the kamikazi freighters...