Monroville

I say "what will happen, will happen"

I understand exactly where Seb32 is coming from, because the kid in me thinks Christmas has just been postponed, because that's what these films feel like: Christmas.

At the same time, while Santa exists as a more general "spirit of giving" type thing, Adrian Sayce is quite real and doesn't have the benefit of elves or mythology to help him out.  So Ady, I understand your side and have chosen just to be patient and adult about it,  or at least as much as I can... my avatar isn't just a random pic (my general nature and the 2 things I like in life the most).

So on that note, all I can ask is just stop by every so often.  You don't have to post images or anything, just a "hi, how's it going?  Here's what's up in a general way so far" would be good enough.  Regardless, keep up the good work and let us know if you need anything.

Speaking of which, the donation/cameo idea sounds pretty cool; don't know how it can be done, but a good idea all the same.  Regardless, if things are hitting the wire like that, I will probably be sending something within the next week or two.

Anyways, keep it up and make sure to check out the "EMPIRE AND JEDI WISHLIST" thread - some really cool stuff over there.

EyeShotFirst said:

Monroville said:

shanerjedi said:

Monroville said:

I say get rid of the tree traps and replace them with pits and the like.  Trees can still be a factor - Scout Walker steps into a pit; as Scout Walker's leg sinks down halfway, ground starts to cave ala a sinkhole; as the rest sinks in, the trees on either side topple over on top of the SW, crushing and blowing it up.

I still say give the Ewoks something explosive to account for getting through the Stormtrooper armor - be it explosive arrow heads and bolas. Maybe even having a scene where one Ewok raises his hand and we see retractable claws pop out and THEN he jumps on top of the Stormtrooper, followed by other Ewoks.  Blood wouldn't have to be shown, though some nice tearing and squishing sounds could be used ala AMERICAN WEREWOLF or something to get the idea across.  Remember that Koalas are pretty damn cute too, but have sharp claws for climbing trees and can get pretty pissed off.

The idea is that these are primitive creatures fighting advanced tech. Sticks and stones versus hi-tech. That was the whole point Lucas went with them instead of the original Wookies.

Just because the Ewoks are supposed to be a primitive tribe doesn't mean they can't improvise or use their intelligence to work around the technology of the Empire.  Also keep in mind that Lucas was originally set to direct APOCALYPSE NOW (until he got the go-ahead to do STAR WARS) and it is more or less his general ideas for AN working their way into STAR WARS - so the corollary can also be the Vietnamese versus the American army/ Mujahadeen versus the Russians/ Partisans versus the Nazis.

There also has to be a realistic means of the Ewoks being able to defeat the Empire - just having bows and arrows wouldn't be enough.  There would have to be something that gives the Ewoks simply the ability to win.

I say they should use the imperials weapons against them. Give a ewok a stormtrooper blaster. Come on, I watched discovery channel the other day and saw an African tribe with uzis.

Why even stop there?  I say give a good number of Ewoks not just simply Stormtrooper blasters, but maybe different kinds of blasters as if they have also killed smugglers or others who may have landed on Endor and said Ewoks killed them and scavenged what was left.   I say if the Ewoks with blasters concept is to be used however way it is, would the blasters have ornaments on them and be painted (ie "natived up")?

shanerjedi said:

Monroville said:

I say get rid of the tree traps and replace them with pits and the like.  Trees can still be a factor - Scout Walker steps into a pit; as Scout Walker's leg sinks down halfway, ground starts to cave ala a sinkhole; as the rest sinks in, the trees on either side topple over on top of the SW, crushing and blowing it up.

I still say give the Ewoks something explosive to account for getting through the Stormtrooper armor - be it explosive arrow heads and bolas. Maybe even having a scene where one Ewok raises his hand and we see retractable claws pop out and THEN he jumps on top of the Stormtrooper, followed by other Ewoks.  Blood wouldn't have to be shown, though some nice tearing and squishing sounds could be used ala AMERICAN WEREWOLF or something to get the idea across.  Remember that Koalas are pretty damn cute too, but have sharp claws for climbing trees and can get pretty pissed off.

The idea is that these are primitive creatures fighting advanced tech. Sticks and stones versus hi-tech. That was the whole point Lucas went with them instead of the original Wookies.

Just because the Ewoks are supposed to be a primitive tribe doesn't mean they can't improvise or use their intelligence to work around the technology of the Empire.  Also keep in mind that Lucas was originally set to direct APOCALYPSE NOW (until he got the go-ahead to do STAR WARS) and it is more or less his general ideas for AN working their way into STAR WARS - so the corollary can also be the Vietnamese versus the American army/ Mujahadeen versus the Russians/ Partisans versus the Nazis.

There also has to be a realistic means of the Ewoks being able to defeat the Empire - just having bows and arrows wouldn't be enough.  There would have to be something that gives the Ewoks simply the ability to win.

I say get rid of the tree traps and replace them with pits and the like.  Trees can still be a factor - Scout Walker steps into a pit; as Scout Walker's leg sinks down halfway, ground starts to cave ala a sinkhole; as the rest sinks in, the trees on either side topple over on top of the SW, crushing and blowing it up.

I still say give the Ewoks something explosive to account for getting through the Stormtrooper armor - be it explosive arrow heads and bolas. Maybe even having a scene where one Ewok raises his hand and we see retractable claws pop out and THEN he jumps on top of the Stormtrooper, followed by other Ewoks.  Blood wouldn't have to be shown, though some nice tearing and squishing sounds could be used ala AMERICAN WEREWOLF or something to get the idea across.  Remember that Koalas are pretty damn cute too, but have sharp claws for climbing trees and can get pretty pissed off.

Jaitea said:

I've uploaded another video this time with Ian in the picture (you don't need to tell me that some of the timing is off, but its just to see if the 'luke' works with the new footage) I mixed the audio from scratch again still using Musical Journey.... think it sounds better, sure I always say that. 

URL:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRAuVstzOv8&feature=youtube_gdata

J

You are getting closer... I think that maybe the LU part of Luke needs to be played with - listen to how Ian says most words as the Emperor: it seems the first part of most words are stressed to some degree.  Instead of "lu"ke Skywalker, it would be more like "LE-u"ke Skywalker.  Maybe if you could hold the L for a split second more.

I dunno... overall, it sounds fine to me.  <:)

BTW, a general question to Venal or anyone else:

Is it possible to separate various audio elements so you can keep voice and sound FX but remove music?  I understand the bit of most dialogue coming from the center, with music coming from the left and right or rear channel speakers, but I am thinking of doing a KILL BILL COMPLETE edit (no FX, just straight editing to get the hang of it) and replacing music with different musical pieces - in some cases the music is pretty loud and upfront. 

Jaitea said:

Sorry to be a pain again, but I've taken on board the suggestions made, I've time-stretched the 'Luke' and added more reverb. I think it sounds a bit better.......but please remember this is only a suggestion.....this is mixed down to 2track stereo, Ady would need to mix this himself for the 5:1 soundtrack.

Ady has mentioned that this clip needs to be croakier to blend in better, i think its that short and the croakiness of 'Skywalker' makes you think that its all croaky.

Here's another URLhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8LD_0QU17I&feature=youtube_gdata

J

I think it works quite well.. again, some more tweaking, but it didn't stand out in an awkward way (for one thing, the word LUKE needs to be a little louder).

On another note, I can't say I ever cared for the Vader line: "How is that possible?"  I liked how in the original dialogue Vader is making statements to counter the Emperor's, as well as talking the Emperor into doing things his way.  The "How is it possible?" line kinda comes across as Vader is a little stupid.. you know, like how he is in JEDI.

And yes, I know the argument will be that he is feigning ignorance to trick the Emperor, but I still say keep the Vader dialogue to statements and not questions (other than the opening line, that is)

Unless Skywalker was a common name, you think for as smart as Vader supposedly is, it would ring some bells.  20 some-odd years is not long enough to forget your entire first 20 years of existence, especially when it was defined by being pronounced the "chosen one" and finding the love of your life.  You would think Vader would at least check it out... it's not like he had anything better to do, other than stand around making Tarkin look good.

If I also recall, didn't Shmi (or whatever Anakin's mothers name was) mention that Owen was her brother, and that is why Obi Wan gave Owen Luke to begin with?  Of course, this conflicts with the ANH original story line that Owen was Kenobi's brother (King Arthur connection - Arthur was given to Kay's dad [can't remember his name] to take care of.  At his coming of age, Arthur finds out that his "dad" is a surrogate and he is the true son of Uther Pendragon, who in the STAR WARS universe is still very much alive).

And now I've gone cross-eyed... 

Darth Venal said:

 

Well anyone willing to give that a go deserves points for trying. Personally, feelings of the change being unnecessary aside, I think the technical side of it is also going to be very difficult. Apart from the tricky job of rotoscoping Alec Guinness out of Dagobah, you've then got the added issues of Dagobah still being visible through him instead of Ben's house. And while you can animate the outline of Ben with Force energy and use the glow to hide the rotoscoping, it can't be done with Luke. It's a hell of a lot of work.

Good luck with it.

One can always take Alec Guinness scenes from ANH and transparentize him, if that's possible.  Whenever he speaks, never show his face (be it we see Luke's face and the side of Kenobi's, and then the camera angle changes so when Luke speaks we see Kenobi sitting/standing while listening to Luke).

Bingowings said:

I know that Ben's ghost scene isn't much of a retort from Luke but it's all that we can get and just having Luke stumble on the truth at some point isn't something that can be done with the existing material.

If Lucas had done it properly we we would have shots of Luke noticing Skywalker style behaviour and then we he tells Leia (or even when he second guesses Ben's ghost in the existing versions) it could have been a semi-plausible revelation but then if Lucas had been in a mind to do it properly Leia would never have been the Other in the first place.

Leia does show Skywalker style behaviour but he's hardly ever around when she does it, (choking Lando via Chewie, choking Jabba, rushing in to save Han, sensing Lando isn't quite right etc). If anything Luke is more likely to conclude Han is his sister going on the evidence he's around to see.

If Luke had been around to notice these things at least Ben could then argue he was trying to protect her from herself and that Luke showed less potential for going the same way Anakin did.

So if we have to have the Ben scene (and I fear we do) putting him on Tatooine where he has a strong connection to Luke makes more sense, to me at least, for all the reasons I've listed.

Vader figured out Luke was his son without being around him (of course, if we go by Skywalker being the actual last name, then it wouldn't be too hard to figure out that connection. Then again, why didn't Vader know that Luke was his son in ANH, being that someone would have told him that the droids were owned by an Owen Skywalker, father of Luke Skywalker... ah, the paradox of Lucas' mind).

Even so, it is a correlation to how Vader confronts and enlightens Luke at Bespin with Luke's revelation to Leia on Endor - the scenes mirror each other.  My point is that Luke figures it out through his connection to the Force, much as Vader no doubt figured out Luke's identity through the Force as well.  Being a Jedi master is about being a master of yourself and your own path, not being told every little thing like a child at school.  In fact, it surprises me that Lucas did not keep the reveal to Luke's conversation as it happens near the end (like the one in EMPIRE) and it would have had more impact than a casual conversation in the beginning of the film.

It also shows Lucas' inability to allow the film's story to flow into revelations, and shows us his lack of faith in the audience by having Oli Wan Ricobi literally spell things out in the most banal way possible.

But, to quote a more well known philosophical a-hole, "that's just me, I could be wrong."

Bingowings said:

skye1083 said:

Hi! I decided to stop lurking and join the discussion. I have read almost all of this thread (sad I know) and I would love to see some of these ideas become reality.

About the Ben/Luke conversation, someone suggested that it be cut altogether, and I think I have to agree. I don't mind Leia being a Skywalker - it's pretty much set in stone now, but it would be nice if Luke showed some of that famed Jedi insight and just knew that Leia was his sister.

So how about this: Luke training on Dagobah, Yoda dies, Luke being unsure, cut to Vader & DS, back to Luke preparing to leave, R2 beeps a message, show X-wings monitor with message from Leia or Threepio about the rescue, Luke heads to Tatooine. I think it would be easier to piece together.

 

Welcome to our wonderful world of head scratching.

Cutting the Ben's ghost bit is problematic in it's own right, we really need to see Luke confront Ben about the great fib, Luke doesn't really get a chance to lay into Yoda because by the time he asks him about it he's already dying.

The poor boy is pretty much manipulated by his masters, they aren't the white hats they pretend to be.

As for Luke figuring it out for himself without help, he sure picks his moments and it's such a wacky story shift that it needs someone else to explain it (for once exposition does come in handy).

To have Luke find out his mentors have lied to him, his dead father is a living murdering despot wannabe and to figure out for himself that the lovely lady he has been gleefully snogging for the last two episodes is his sister and not to have anyone to bitch about it to would be enough to pull even the most seasoned Jedi to the dark side.

Palpatine wouldn't need to do anything.

Seeing Fishmanlee's mockup (the music change doesn't really add much and I doubt if the sound could be successfully be rebuilt around the change) does point up that the ship positions need to be changed as the last ships just disappear they don't shoot off to the same vanishing point the earlier craft do.

I assume that they would all jump to the same spot if they are going to the same space (they certainly would just fade out like that).

But that is the point: the test isn't physical but mental.

Even with the Ben scene it isn't much of a confrontation (be it the script or the acting).  Having Luke being forced to deal with the revelation without being able to vent at Ben, and then having to face Vader and the Emperor completely alone without the aid of any supernatural force, would show Luke's move from a child to an adult.  In fact, if you look at A NEW HOPE, EMPIRE and JEDI, the pattern of Luke's development as a character is essentially: kid, teenager, adult.

In the first film, he is naive and energetic.  While he has a father figure who teaches him the basics (having a good work ethic, basic sense of morals, etc), he finds a grandfather figure who gives him a greater sense of purpose other than simply working for a living.  He loses his mentor but gains purpose and direction.  It is essentially a child's fantasy: his toys come alive, the bully becomes his best friend and he gets the girl while blowing up the bad guys, ending with him being rewarded for it for everyone to cheer.

In the second film, there is nothing to really cheer about.  Luke is in a leadership position, but not one of the generals but off to one side.  His leadership at best allows for escape instead of victory, and for the rest of the movie he is either ignoring the advice his mentors give him or he is arguing with it.  When he goes to Bespin, the excuse is to save his friends, but it is most likely so he can get revenge against Vader for killing Ben (regardless of Ben's spiritual state).  In the end, he is all but alone, loses the girl, barely escapes with his life and finds out that his mentor betrayed him (as most teens feel to some degree with their own parents)

In the third film, Luke has to bail out his friends in a fairly sloppy rescue attempt.  It isn't perfect (as it would be), but it works.  Vader is quieter and Luke is more vocal - compare Luke and Vader in EMPIRE to how they interact in JEDI with how a father would interact with a rebellious teenager to the same father and son 10 to 20 years later.  In the end, Luke is almost in the position of Vader at the end of the Bespin fight, where he fights with his words as well as his weapons.

SomethingStarWarsRelated said:

Wow thanks again for the feedback, guys!

Monroville said:

Some good work there, SSWR!

I like how you got Yoda to do the coughing.  As a suggestion, could you make an alternate edit?

Personally, I could see the beginning with Vader removed entirely and just start on Dagobah.  In fact, I would not show the X-wing or R2 and just show Luke (recoloring his EMPIRE outfit to black) running through the forest and CGI Yoda off his back (since he would be back in the hut, with Luke doing his final training on his own) and maybe his green lightsabre on (or it could be kept off to save it for the barge fight reveal).  I would never show Luke's face, so when he reveals himself before Jabba, it is the first time we see him completely.

What kind of programs do you use for your editing?

 Well, I like the sound of that too...If I tried that it would be even more rough...I can't erase Yoda very well with what I use (adobe premiere and photoshop elements)...I don't know...I might attempt something like this eventually...

 

Don't worry about deleting Yoda from Luke's back; the main change would be making his clothes black and using footage where we can't see his face; the idea is to create the concept of Luke training on his own for universal viewing.  Per a finished product/edit, Yoda can remain inside the hut .. in fact, all scenes with Luke's face shots could be removed so when we hear Luke the camera is always on Yoda (so Luke's voice would come from off screen).  Even after Yoda dies/disappears, the camera can linger on Yoda's empty clothes as we hear Luke leave as well as show the lighting on Yoda's clothes darken as the light in the hut is "turned off" by Luke as he leaves.   I would also consider adding rain sound effects to further emphasize Luke's emotional state and situation (minus thunder - that might be a little too much).

If Luke says anything after Yoda's death, we can hear him as from a distance (as he leaves the hut) as we keep the shot on Yoda's clothes to emphasize Luke being alone.   The next shot could then show an X-wing leaving Dagobah, which could then allow the "Dagobah to space" shot to segway from space down to the surface of Tatooine, where we see C3P0 and R2D2 approaching Jabba's palace.  Everything would then procede as the theatrical version (plus or minus Boba, Lapti Nek's replacement song, and any other edits).

The main jist would be to see if you can do a Dagobah beginning without showing Luke's face until his theatrical reveal in Jabba's palace, thus maintaining the integrity of the GOUT pacing.  And again, I would go to Dagobah after the opening scroll and just cut out the DS2 reveal with Vader - we get it later with the Emperor's arrival, making the beginning scene 100% irrelevant.

PS: Vaderios: in regards to the "Leia's apartment layout", I believe that 005 and others have already created diagrams as to possible layouts somewhere in the middle of the EMPIRE:REVISITED thread (not sure what the exact pages are, but there should be plenty of images).

SomethingStarWarsRelated said:

Well here's that 'Luke training on Dagobah' idea we were talking about the other day...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFBmHpcX4eA

This is how it would fit in with the fan-o-matic edit. Needs some more tweaking...ideas? Is this scene too early to show Lukes new saber?

Some good work there, SSWR!

I like how you got Yoda to do the coughing.  As a suggestion, could you make an alternate edit?

Personally, I could see the beginning with Vader removed entirely and just start on Dagobah.  In fact, I would not show the X-wing or R2 and just show Luke (recoloring his EMPIRE outfit to black) running through the forest and CGI Yoda off his back (since he would be back in the hut, with Luke doing his final training on his own) and maybe his green lightsabre on (or it could be kept off to save it for the barge fight reveal).  I would never show Luke's face, so when he reveals himself before Jabba, it is the first time we see him completely.

What kind of programs do you use for your editing?

vaderios said:

Monroville said:

The rebel base layout would have to be something along this line as well:

Hey! I love those! You did again as you done it with the bespin's shaft.

It makes total sense and i dont care if its oficially or EU as well.

But despite the fact the awesomeness, the cannon is too low so we can see it from the window in the shot above.

-Angel

 The guy on the right (in the Hoth control room photo up above) is looking rather far down below him, but even then, I would think that any window would be to look out across the plains that the ion cannon would cover, as the ion cannon could (and should) have been used against any ground force attacking them.  Wouldn't do the rebels any good if they had a big, huge honking cannon right in front of the window.

Even so, the reason I made the layout that way is that if the window is to be above the ion cannon the way you depict it in your mock-up, the issue is that the control room is roughly on the same level as the hanger the Falcon is on, which would make the Taun-Taun entrance higher up than the ion cannon (which can still be a possibility - mountains aren't uniformly connected to the ground, so you could have one side much deeper/taller that the other simply due to topography)

EDIT - okay, just read and saw Ady's post, so even if the window COULD be there, that is still a tactical viewscreen the guy is looking at.  Even so, whether anything is done in the internal control room shots or not, I think Vaderios' mock-up is quite awesome and is an improvement over Ady's already much improved ion cannon shot.

doubleofive said:

Here's the shot where it looks like a couple guys are trying to look out a window in the rebel control room:



Watch it in motion, the guy with the arrow is defiantly not looking at the glass, but leaning forward to look through it and down.  The problem with putting a window there is the lighting, unless the window just happens to be in shadow in the outside shot.

 

A few issues though: if you look at the cave ceiling behind the glass panels, it curves a good 4 to 6 feet behind the panel the guy is looking at/through (it also appears to be another tactical display like the other 2 we see).

Now it could be FXed up to BE a window to the outside; one could create a window with a good 10 to 20 foot overhang (with the reason being that it would make the window impossible to see from orbit, and thus get them spotted.. of course, you got the frikkin huge ion cannon, but that could be reconditioned to look more like part of the mountain or given some element of camouflage.  Maybe when we see the first shot of the ion cannon, we get a glimpse of a cloaking or camouflage device deactivating?).  Here is a rough sketch:



The rebel base layout would have to be something along this line as well:

vaderios said:

The antenna will be up in a mountain/hill. it makes sense after all. The bunker can be in plains

 

-Angel

Or in essence the base of the hill, with the shield antenna being up on top of a hill (doesn't necessarily have to be a mountain, just higher up away from the rest of the forest).

I also really love the idea of the entire forest being set on fire from the fire fight between the Imps and the Ewok/Rebels.  Maybe the Ewoks could have homemade explosives or chemically volatile rocks that they use as arrowheads and grenades to help even the odds (could also better explain how they can pierce the stormtrooper armor - though I am aware of history and what the English longbowman did to heavily armored French knigits.  Let's just say it didn't end well for the French)?

Akwat Kbrana said:

Monroville said:

You know, maybe if R2 is to be dubbed, why not dub him to sound like a Dalek (and have his eye pulse every time he speaks)?

Au contraire.This edit is entitled "Worst Edit Ideas." This edit idea, however, would be awesome.

Hey Boost:

Maybe instead of worst edit ideas, this should be called CRAZIEST edit ideas.  Or Xtreme.. with and X.

You know, Mecha-Threepio would be pretty cool...

Okay, one more:

Davnes007 said:

How about giving Ewoks weirding modules?

Or flying guillotines?



or the Ewoks eat metal and plastic, and swarm over the Scout Walkers and stormtroopers like piranha.

MORE SERIOUS EWOKS:
get rid of the 2 stupid tree traps - no way the Imps wouldn't be able to see them coming.  Maybe replace with pits the Scout Walkers step into, as well as give Ewoks homemade explosives or explosive rocks they can throw (or are at the tips of their arrows)

LESS SERIOUS EWOKS:
add more ludicrous tree traps, such as a giant wooden foot used to squash Scout Walkers and stormtroopers.  Hell, if you include the C3PO worship, give the Ewoks a wooden C3PO Shogun Warrior:




and why not throw in some wooden laser guns too...

DuTwan said:

watchin ROTJ atm. you know when luke enters as the gamorrian pigs raise up there staffs in front of luke, i think it would be really cool if Ady cut the force choked guards completely and cut straight to luke walking down the steps, would make him seem more strong, we dont know what happened to the pigs. dunno just seems to make the scene better.

Or choked the guards without raising his hand up.  I always felt that was a little cheesy.

PS: also have to concur with DV on PSYCHO 2 and the above mentioned monsters.  And don't forget JC's THE THING and Oscar, that crazy american werewolf in london.

Is there any way to put smaller versions of the red sails onto the smaller skiffs?

cap said:

Monroville said:

Vader would be smart enough to know that eventually Luke would go to save his friend Han from Jabba, and being that Luke came from Tatooine to begin with, it would be no different than cops staking out a criminal's parents or girlfriend's home.

Vader is under explicit instructions from the Emperor not to go after Luke, but to wait for Luke to come to him.

True, but Vader wouldn't be above disobeying the Emperor for his own agenda, provided of course he could talk his way out of any punishment.  Besides, even if he can't go after Luke it doesn't mean he can't send his guys out to keep an eye on him.

Rhikter: I know where you're coming from.  Regardless of the audience wondering where Luke is, that is just a great character introduction (Luke entering Jabba's palace).  Maybe if you had the opening on Dagobah, only shots of Luke from a distance where we never really get a good look at his face are shown.  When Yoda says his lines, we can only hear Luke off camera.  That way while we know that the person we are seeing is pretty much Luke, we don't get to see his face until he reveals it when he flings his hood back at the palace.

Also keep in mind that the Imperials already had a presence on Tatooine.. it would not be surprising that they kept at least a small contingent of troops after ANH.

If you were to add the SD there, I would probably keep it at one, or just even have a handfull of TIEs; not so much to engage and have a space battle, but they see the Falcon and X-wing from a distance, report in, the report gets to Vader and leads to the DS2 reveal scene, with Vader knowing of Luke's plans, as he is having Luke shadowed (Vader would be smart enough to know that eventually Luke would go to save his friend Han from Jabba, and being that Luke came from Tatooine to begin with, it would be no different than cops staking out a criminal's parents or girlfriend's home).

I would still cut out Vader's arrival in the beginning altogether, since it is redundant as we see the DS2 and have a shuttle land in a DS docking bay when the Emperor arrives.

You could progess as follows:
(1) drop down from scroll into Dagobah atmosphere to swamp surface.  Maybe take a training scene from EMPIRE and replace/recolor Luke's fatigues to black and add him chopping something with his lightsabre during one of his backflips.  He goes to Yoda's hut and the conversation ends with Yoda dying.  Luke goes out to the X-wing preparing to leave.

(2) cut Obi-wan's scene here and either do a top-down vertical swipe or have the camera move down from space to surface of Tatooine with the droids approaching Jabba's palace, where more or less the film continues as it does originally.  Whether or not Obi's scene is redone to be at his old hut or not would be up to editor.  Personally, I like someone else's idea that once Yoda dies, Luke is on his own with no pep talk or anything until his final confrontation with Vader.  That would make Luke's speech later with Leia something that he has figured out through the Force as opposed to Obi-Wan simply telling him flat out.

(3) when they leave Tatooine, have the camera linger as we see the X-wing and Falcon leave (would probably have to alter the FX to show them leaving in formation as opposed to splitting up).  As they do a hyperspace jump, we hear and then see 2 or 4 TIEs fly overhead and we hear one of the pilots sending in a message on a coded channel.  This segways to Vader, who could be seen pressing a button on his chest plate to indicate that he is the only one getting the message (I would assume that helmet has headphones in it), which then goes to him and the Emperor leaving in said shuttle to the DS2 and thus moving us to the B plot.

hans olof said:

Monroville said:

Davnes007 said:

Just thought I'd post this again, seeing as this topic is brought up again.

I agree on showing the debris that went out with Luke shown falling away towards the bottom of the shaft.. but on that note, shouldn't the shaft darken as it deepens?

 Just look down at an scyscraper and you will find the answer weither it should be darken or not (remember the lights in the windows). But the shaft do darken a little longer down, I think it's good.

The possible debris should be sucked into the wall (like Luke later get sucked in), but in that case there is no suck surprise!      :-)

 

Remember that this is still on the inside... most skyscrapers are out in the open air, so ambient light is going to have a much bigger effect... not to mention that this tunnel would be full of gas vapors from the various gas mining facilities and carbonite waste production.

You know, wouldn't it be kinda sad that Luke dies not from Vader or the Emperor or whatnot, but lung cancer from the pollution he was breathing in during this sequence?

Bingowings said:

Monroville said:

The problem with using Neeson's other films to continue the character (beyond the obvious technical problems) is that those roles are very different from Qui-Gon.

There isn't enough for him to do in TPM as it is so trying to make a Frankenstein collage out of footage from other films and getting them to match up is possibly doable for a few Force ghost scenes but to extend it further I can't see it working but I'd love to see someone try it and prove me wrong.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I figured... thinking about it a few minutes after posting, calling any sort of editing Frankensteinish would be kind.  <:)

Darth Venal said:

Mrbenja0618:

Man, why did they kill him off? Would that not been amazing dramatic moment. If Qui-gon left the republic, what would that do to Obi-wan's mind! Dang you, Lucas! Wasted opportunity!

Well, Lucas is lucky he did kill off Qui-Gon, because there is no way Liam Neeson would have come back. He was pretty damn vocal about how much he hated the way Lucas made The Phantom Menace and that's why he declined to appear as Qui-Gon's ghost and we ended up with the Force ghost thing being slipped in so inadequately at the end of Episode III.

Being that this is a radical redux thread and all, would it be conceivable to replace Dooku with Qui Jon?  Qui gets wounded by Maul, and using scenes in TPM and maybe ROB ROY to edit him over Chris Lee's shots.  Again, I know it would be near impossible.... but an idea none the less.

Just thinking about how dramatic it would be to have Obi Wan fighting his old master on the seperatist ship in ROTS and Anakin lopping Qui Jon's head off instead of Dookula's.