Monroville

vaderios said:

Here Impfighter. Straight from the AVCHD.

-Angel

Uh oh!  Are the Star Destroyer engines going to be blue?

Also, by making the shuttle a little larger it will be easier to see.

BTW, is there any way to darken the SD hull a little more?  I think it does look quite a bit improved over the original scene, but it would be interesting just to see how it would look...

So folks, what do you think (just darkened the lighting by @ 20% to 30%)?

adywan said:

OK, i have to put the debate about scales to rest now. Forget about the so called sizes of ships that are documented because many are just so wrong. The scale of the Lambda shuttle in the ROTJ opening , which seems to be the basis of the scale, is wrong. See the pics below:

This would also be a good way to determine just how big the Falcon should be on the backside of the Avenger's conning tower, being that the Falcon (from the front view) would be roughly 25 to 45% wider than the length view of the Lamda in image 1...

Here are some images to show the angle I want to show the Nostromo and Refinery:





I want to see how either would look if the only lighting on them came from the model/ships themselves (as it would in deep space).

BTW, I am currently looking for one of the Monsters in Motion or Halcyon Nostromo models to use for filming.  If anyone can find one, please let me know...

Bingowings said:

I remember happening across the novelisation of "The Incredible Melting Man" in Woolworths when I was a kid and the front cover freaked me out so much that I refused to go near the books section for months later, just encase it was still there.

That film is gloriously sick, the bit with the head plopping down the water fall is classic.

Funny you say that, because that's how I felt about the Saturday morning Scene (the arts and leisure section of my local paper) way back in the day: in the back, they always had the movie reviews and ads, and that face would always freak me out - you'd turn the page quickly, and then peel it back just to get a peak. 

Sad as it is to say, I will say that those memories of the ad are probably way better than the movie itself (though it still has a warm, gloopy spot in my heart and on the dvd shelf).

Jaitea said:

Hi Monroville, the main thing that annoys me about Alien is the scene with the decapitated Ash. The jump cuts between Ian and the dummy head need fixed and when the skin is being burnt off by the flamethrower the final blast of flames blows off the last of the skin revealing the white plastic looking mannequin head, no eye sockets, skull, nothing.

 

I'll have to check it again, maybe the last blast of flame could be cut before the plastic head was revealed.

J

YES!   That is definitely something I want to work on; be it editing and/or taking images of Ian Holm and figuring a way of mapping it onto the fake head (I definitely want to deal with the bit where Ripley is trying to get the head to stay down and it keeps wanting to tip over - I would consider just editing that bit out so the first you see is Ian's head through the table). 

In fact, it's funny you bring up the "mannequin head" that appears after the 2nd flamethrower blast, because I was thinking about that yesterday - it needs either something akin to an endoskeleton skull or at least a more Incredible Melting Manish appearance



...or just cutting out the 2nd flamethrower burst. 

Well, ALIEN 3 and 4 don't exist in this dojo, so when ALIENS ends, that's it for me.

But all those points are valid:
- the score I can take or leave; it works for the movie, but not if you listen to it by itself (though it would be interesting just to see what another score, be it a temp or original [check out a guy called IslandRocks on youtube], would sound like)
- I have NO IDEA how to re-edit the finale other than showing the Alien Queen with some footing on the outer airlock wall (which would mean her whole weight wouldn't be on Ripley's foot).  Granted, inside the airlock there could be zero gravity, but still.  Even if you can't change the finale, I would DEFINITELY change that last shot of the Alien Queen falling away from the Sulaco - talk about fake looking!

I've thought about giving ALIENS a shot (after this and a few other edits; gotta get the hang of this first!).  For one thing, I always felt the gun sound FX were a bit on the wimpy side, so I would definitely replace them with something more bassy/boomy (PREDATOR or DIE HARD would be good examples).  I "may" consider making the smart guns actual plasma/laser guns (this IS the future after all), but that may be a little much - it would definitely have to be tested to see how it looks and sounds.

I can't think of anything I would change visual FX wise (other than giving the gas giant a ring to match the 1st film and a few other things), but sound FX could be improved and definitely some elements of the script.  Don't know how I would do it, but I always thought it was stupid that a sergeant would wait for orders to RUN AWAY (I always thought the whole point behind sergeants was that if the officer became incapacitated in any way, they would take charge), so I would try to re-edit that scene to show a more realistic portrayal of military trained troops while still coming to the same conclusion.

Don't know what to do about the "Alien Queen hanging onto Ripley's endoskeleton super foot", but that would be one thing I would try to address...

Even so, my take on ALIENS is that the Queen is essentially the same type as the Alien in the first movie, but mutated due to radiated colonists (namely Newt's dad) being the host... so in essence we have a wasp-based creature mutate to a bee/ant-based creature, with the "bone-headed" Alien warriors being weaker, watered-down versions of the first film Alien (which would also explain how much weaker they are - remember that the Alien in the first film survived a fusion engine blast from the Narcissus).

DarthBo said:

That was Mojo_LA (aka DarthMojo) I believe.

I think he left after the mostly negative (fanboyish) reaction to his "cons" list. Much like with Darth Venal, people on these boards don't seem to appreciate criticism if they come from pros.

That or a common factor with being a pro is being a Richard, if you know what I mean.  Besides, I think we all know the difference between criticism (where you end things off with positive suggestions as well as maybe presenting them, which Venal did on occasion) and just plain being a Dick Tracy about things (again, like how Venal had to have the last word in things and would go on and on - you know, like that Kurgan guy and his blue TIE fighters.  >:).

Aaaaanyway, this is for Ady:
Again, not that anything has to be done, but any word on what to do about the hallway behind Piett when he visits Vader?  Personally, I think it could be left "as-is", just remove the people moving about and/or create a wall to give Vader's chamber a foyer of sorts (the outer door could be shown open with traffic moving about).



I know it's a double post, but IF it is to be fixed/altered, it could be relatively easy..

ImperialFighter said:

Monroville said:

Not to mention:

If Vader's chamber is literally 10 feet away from the bridge, how hilariously AIRPLANE does it make the scene play out when all Vader has to do is get his asthmatic butt out of that chamber, go out the door, turn left/right and yell out "Hey Ozzell!  What the hell is going on?!"  You know, as opposed to talk to them via TV screen?

So yes, ANYTHING to show that Vader's chamber is in a much safer place, like deep inside the Executor, as opposed to right next to the bridge on a conning tower with shields that cannot withstand laser fire from A-wings.  A-wings fer chrissakes!

 

While I didn't mean 10 feet away from the Bridge, lol, I don't reckon a long, long trek from it either.

However, as it's impossible to actually judge exactly where this section of the set seen beyond the doorway is positioned anyway, there's nothing to say it can't be situated 'in the bowels' somewhere, without any manipulation whatsoever.

 I'm not saying Vader's chamber should be in the Executor's nose or anything ("I said ACROSS her nose, not UP it!"), but being that we can see that path and door in later bridge shots (I know that when making movies, sets will be built in proximity to one another for budget sake), it does make it a little silly.

You know, if any manipulation has to be done, all you have to do is create a wall where the other people are in the hallway to connect to the outer outside wall on the other side of the hallway.  This would allude to the door on the other side of the hallway being an outer door to keep people from peeping in on Vader (since there would be a foyer of sorts) or an elevator door - which itself could be modified to have the squarish white lights that were above the DS elevator in ANH.

Here is a quick example (using MS paint, so forgive the sloppiness):

Also, in regards to this shot:



Are the X-wing engines going to be redder to match their appearance in ANH?  BTW, I like how the foreground clouds are bluer (or whiter) than the original image, which makes them match up with the background clouds a lot better now.

Rpvee: I know where you're coming from, but also remember who is doing the work (FOR FREE).  I can deal with things like Needa's really bright SD if it means getting an overall perfected EMPIRE in 720p.

Ady: while I still think Needa's SD could be darkened (even if the main hull was darkened to 50% of the dark side of the escort SD by the Executor), I will say that it still looks quite a bit better and less "modelly" than it did in the GOUT.

doubleofive said:

Here we go!

Regardless of lighting up the hanger bay or adding lights, I still think the Star Destroyer should be darkened up, with the hanger being left untouched (maybe make the main hull match the color tone of the dark side of the escort SD).  To me, it's not just a matter of being way too bright (and the lighting not matching the Executor and escort SD) but the brightness makes it look like a model and not a mile long spaceship.

Buuuut that's just me, I could be wrong.  >:)

Not to mention:

If Vader's chamber is literally 10 feet away from the bridge, how hilariously AIRPLANE does it make the scene play out when all Vader has to do is get his asthmatic butt out of that chamber, go out the door, turn left/right and yell out "Hey Ozzell!  What the hell is going on?!"  You know, as opposed to talk to them via TV screen?

So yes, ANYTHING to show that Vader's chamber is in a much safer place, like deep inside the Executor, as opposed to right next to the bridge on a conning tower with shields that cannot withstand laser fire from A-wings.  A-wings fer chrissakes!

rcb said:

The Golden Idol said:

Bingowings said:

 Jeez, that's just creepy.

 that might turn it into a horror movie. it would be better with flashbacks, but that would be stupid anyways

Actually, I can't really tell what is going on here... it looks like a "three fingered hand" to the right of Luke, but other than that, it looks like the RAIDERS ghosts from the Ark have seen better days...

rpvee said:

vaderios said:

Adding saber reflection to the glass?

-Angel

 Wow, that's cool!  But it should look more like Vader's saber is in front of Luke's in the reflection.

TV's Frink said:

I find the lightsaber reflections distracting, regardless of how much sense it makes.  I love the saber fix a few posts earlier, however.

Well, the problem is we can see Luke's leg and the floor panel reflected in the window - if the lightsabres aren't reflected, then all reflections should be taken out (unless the light from the sabres are g-g-g-g-ghosts!)

EDIT: got beaten to the punch!  You know, I'm surprised Ric didn't point this out before any of us.  Man, Ric, you're slipping!  "Hey, there's Luke reflected in the window... but WHERE ARE THE LIGHTSABRES?!"

vaderios said:

Ady did you fix the shadows position in that shot?

Btw nice to see that the Star destroyer element its the same one that chases falcon in the asteroids :) I was scratching my head where did you get the rear detail!

 

-Angel

That's something I never thought of..

Ady: will the TIE fighters have their red engines in all of the rear shots?

adywan said:

 Also the Hal light i don't like either. I prefer the yellow/ orange one it has now. Everything always seems to have a red or blue light nowadays so having the orange one is a nice change. And the shadows on the mountains are grey where they should be more blue

True, but the Mind probe had a red light, and the Imps are all about consistency. 

I can understand getting tired of just the red and blue, but if there has to be faded yellow/orange lights on a droid, there's always IG-88 or a more stand-alone droid.

Regardless, do you plan on doing anything to conceal/modify the first probot shot to do something about the modeliness of it?  I would also consider putting the shield generator really far back in the shot showing the probot watching it, being that it should be able to see it a few miles away (to keep from being spotted).

(edited prior response after reply, so just in case you missed it: ... Anything to give the probot droid any more texture to get it away from looking like a 12 inch tall model would be fantastic!  You know, maybe instead of flames if there can be smoke coming out the crater to help obscure the close-up probot droid coming out the crater (and help obscure the modeliness).. at least it would conform to the following shot showing smoke coming out of the crater as well...)

vaderios said:

Nice stuff there Ady!!!

 

Thanks for the action Sky_ :D!!!

 

Now take this too:)

Spot the continuity error and fix it :P Im out of here

 

-Angel

I hope Ady takes this into consideration: that first shot (or second in this case) when the probot first comes out always looked really fake, and the flames in this case could hide the fakiness a little better - though I could see the flames dying out as the shot progressed or being toned down a little.

Overall, everything about this mock-up is better: I love how you can see the hill behind the flames; how the mountains stand out from the sky; even the HAL eye I think works really well and would give it some life (not to mention a droidish connection to R2).  For that matter, how would the probot look to have a few more lights on it ala R2 (I know it is for infiltration and all, but anything to give it some life and take it away from looking like a model could be good).

EDIT - okay, I can see the flames going, per Ady's response above.  I still vote for the red R2 eye and the overall shot (minus flames) for the close-up.  Anything to give the probot droid any more texture to get it away from looking like a 12 inch tall model would be fantastic!  You know, maybe instead of flames if there can be smoke coming out the crater to help obscure the close-up probot droid coming out the crater (and help obscure the modeliness).. at least it would conform to the following shot showing smoke coming out of the crater as well...

In fact, that could be a cool way to reveal it: plenty of smoke coming out and all we can see when it first rises is the silhouette and the red eye activating; then we see the farther back shot of it coming out of the column of smoke (maybe making a trail the way helicopters do when they go through smoke).



How would it be to add a slight audio echo to the levitation noises it makes to excentuate the open air environment it is in when leaving the crater?  You know, don't forget the audio things you can do for enhancement too!

That and a LOT more ewoks..... like ZULU (the film) level of ewoks.

Not yet.  I don't have Vaderios' or Ady's skill level yet, so right now I am doing what I can to wrap my head around After Effects, Photoshop, Vegas and other programs.  I will probably start off by doing movie edits that require no FX work just to get the hang of it (I plan on doing a KILL BILL: BLOODY AFFAIRish type edit with some different editing and music for the 2nd half, as well as a more 70's fitting ending).

Regardless, what I DO plan on doing is creating some concept art and posting that up so everyone can get an idea of what is in store.  I know a lot will probably disagree with the tinkering, but it's something I've been wanting to do even before STAR WARS:REVISITED showed me what one person can do on a home PC.

Bingowings said:

That's daft, sorry but it is.

The Empire spans an entire Galaxy I doubt if all the Empire's troops would fit on Endor, they certainly wouldn't be able to hide long enough for them to spring a trap on the Rebels (by the way he doesn't mention his fleet only that he has sent an entire Legion of his best troops).

Who would keep the rest of the Galaxy in line while they are off on this mission?

Maybe someone could do an edit showing storm troopers behind every tree on Endor.  And I mean EVERY tree.

adywan said:

Monroville said:

And I know it's beating a dead horse (or Taun Taun?) but I can't believe NOTHING can be done with Han's TT, be it a fast eye blink or the eyes looking around a bit, as opposed to simply straight ahead with that dead puppet stare.  At the same time, I know it's easier said than done.  The comparisons 005 put up are still boggling my mind as to how you did 'em...

The wampa footage was only added to fill the gaps really. The shots will be nothing like that when its all finished. I want to keep it as close to the original pre-SE pacing and mystery as possible

The problem with the taun taun is the erratic movement. It is a nightmare to track to do anything with

Understandable; it is still a shame nothing can be done (well, I guess something COULD be done - it's just that it would be a pain in the a$$).  At the same time, this is kinda FREE, so I know I shouldn't look a gift fanedit in the mouth.  >:)

Regardless, take yer time, don't have a heart attack or anything, make sure to find the time to drink a beer or two every so often and just finish when you can. 

Looking good so far.. still can't say I care for the extra Wampa footage.  I liked the glimpses of the Wampa as it is approaching per the original, as (at least for me) it added to the suspense that the Wampa was relatively far away and moving to Luke.  With the SE, the Wampa is right there almost eyeballing him, which makes you wonder why it takes so long to rush up on Luke much less where the wailing is coming from if his mouth is full.

And I know it's beating a dead horse (or Taun Taun?) but I can't believe NOTHING can be done with Han's TT, be it a fast eye blink or the eyes looking around a bit, as opposed to simply straight ahead with that dead puppet stare.  At the same time, I know it's easier said than done.  The comparisons 005 put up are still boggling my mind as to how you did 'em...

Still, Bingo, a line or two of dialogue would be nice to at least acknowledge that the DS command center knows the shield went down... of course, this leads to another problem: the Emperor kinda states "now witness the firepower of this FULLY OPERATIONAL battle station!"  Um, if it is fully operational, wouldn't that mean that the shield generator was a mcguffin and that the DS2 had shields of its own?

Maybe the FULLY OPERATIONAL line needs to be taken out... I mean, c'mon!  I know the Empire is incompetent and all, but jesus, do they have to just give it away?!?  The first 2 movies you could suspend some disbelief (only Imperial Storm Troopers are this precise... unless they are shooting at main characters.  Then they can't hit their nose if their lives depended on it), but JEDI takes the cake!

BTW, in regards to the "sound in space" argument earlier, keep in mind that not once does sound in space play a part in determining the fates of our heroes or villains: it is simply a cool audio device to get us into the World War 2ish/ King Arthury action (along with slow viewable lasers, laser swords, aliens speaking english, etc).   Having actual plot elements that screw the story up or destroy integrity or believability (in character achievement) is all together completely different - you know, like how X-wings and the Falcon can fly through the construction of the DS2 without running into something and blowing up, but the much smaller, more manueverable Imperial TIE fighters (with pilots that would have access to a Death Star GPS system) do... to add to among hundreds of other such examples which compound upon each other until you just don't care anymore.

I guess you could say that JEDI is the inverse of the first movie in that in STAR WARS: ANH you really felt the hero earned his victory, so when you have the award ceremony, you almost felt as if you were Luke and getting a reward.  In JEDI, it just comes across as if the fix was in and the Empire was paid to take a dive. 

rcb said:

this is almost as annoying as arguing with my dad about there being inhabitants on mustafar and how Anakin and Obi-Wan should of died of heat stroke! :p

Yeah, but by then I already threw my hands up and gave up on all of that a movie or two prior.  I mean really?  The reactor is visible from the hanger bay?  And he did it all on autopilot?!?  I could go on, but I'll let Ric do that for me...

Take it away, Ric! (insert Johnny Carson theme)

rcb said:

i think ur in one of the star wars tales graphic novels. u tell a story of how u train pilots.

back to the Endor halocaust, i don't think it should really be a big deal about what happens to the death star debris and explosion. we're not watching star trek, though i'm a trekkie, so we don't care about that stuff. all we want is the fighting and storyline.

But that is what makes JEDI such a joke though; granted, nobody expects someone to stop the movie and do a PSYCHO psychoanalyzing ending explaining everything.  At the same time, when you have something tremendously obvious happening (such as a Death Star TWICE as powerful as the former one blowing up in low orbit around a planet) you still have to deal with it in a fairly realistic way IF you want people to take you seriously. 

Now there are multiple ways you can deal with this:

(1) go all out with the Holocaust theory, and as stated in a prior post, the DS2 "is" destroyed, but the bulk falls into Endor, wiping out all characters on the ground (taking elements from DEEP IMPACT and the like).  Luke and Lando survive, but everyone else doesn't.  Luke has his funeral pyre for Darth amid a blasted forest, and one could work a bittersweet ending (Empire still loses, or officers end fight and shake hands with Mon Motha or whoever; Luke still has mission to rebuild Jedi much less make sure the peace is kept, but there is a real price to pay for victory).  I know, kind of a downer ending.

(2) Show the first part of the DS2 explosion minus the huge fireball - implication that the reactor wasn't enough to vaporize the thing, so most of the DS2 is still in orbit, with said "ring" formed by DS2 debris which stays in Endor's outer orbit.  It could also help if the DS2 is shown to be farther away from Endor than what we see in the theatrical JEDI.  It could also provide for a spectacular explosion that differs greatly from the first DS explosion, much less most other mega-explosions seen in most films (showing the DS2 explode, but to the degree that the bulk remains, with pieces being blown off, etc).

(3) it blows up spectacularly and that is the last we see of it, short of again some DEEP IMPACT style shots of debris raining down in atmosphere instead of fireworks (the DS2 debris provides the fireworks).