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Mocata

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8-Feb-2017
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15-Jul-2018
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Post
#1223749
Topic
Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

oojason said:

TV’s Frink said:

DrDre said:

yotsuya said:

Well, I disagree entirely. First off, it is obvious we are supposed to side with Poe. Holdo is expecting Poe to follow orders. That he doesn’t is not surprising because she doesn’t share what she is doing. And ultimately it is Poe who turns Holdo’s cunning plan into a disaster. Poe sends Finn and Rose off to solve the problem his way. A daring venture full of risks with a possible payoff. But because they do not find the hacker that Maz recommends (probably because he can be trusted) and they end up with DJ and DJ learns of Holdo’s plan, when the mission goes sour he uses that to get himself out of trouble. As a result most of the resistance is destroyed, rather than losing the one ship and hiding out on Crait until someone came to get them. Poe is a hotshot pilot but that is not what makes a leader. Knowing when to not be the hotshot and play it safe is the lesson he needed and he got it the hard way. However the movie makes it very clear that if he hadn’t gone ahead and destroyed the dreadnaught at the beginning, it would have wiped them out later. So his first reckless act that he got demoted for turned out to be the right thing to do at the time, but after the fallout, Poe is making wiser decisions. Not bad for a character Abrams almost killed off.

That story line is full of old war movie tropes. How Holdo treats Poe, how Poe reacts, and how he learns. That may not be your real world experience, but it is many people’s. And Holdo doesn’t seem like she is much of a people person. One of those who rose to command through brilliant tactics. She obviously is a friend of Leia’s. So her tough treatment of Poe makes a lot of sense. Military methods of leadership are not the same as private sector methods. The military needs people who will follow orders without question plus brilliant strategists. So using civilian leadership techniques to critique a military interaction doesn’t work well. The same rules don’t apply. There is a reason why the traditional drill sergeant is tough and gruff. Dressing down a subordinate in a military setting isn’t about their well being, it is about their discipline and willingness to follow orders. In a military setting you need someone who will not panic and will act on their training no matter the price. In a civilian setting an employee’s life is rarely on the line and you rarely need blind obedience. So it is comparing apples to oranges.

So both on the writing side and on the realism side, this part of the story reflects some brilliant writing. I find the entire movie to be brilliant. I love it more the more I watch it. And it is definitely very Star Wars. War movies and samurai movies were very much a part of the original trilogy and Rian Johnson captured that part far better than Abrams did in TFA. I watched Twelve O’Clock High and Three Outlaw Samurai after I heard they, plus To Catch A Thief, were classics Rian Johnson was watching to prepare for this movie. Three brilliant films that definitely had an influence.

Maybe you should read the link I posted from someone with actual military experience

Still leaning on this I see.

C’mon Frink, no-one in the military has ever got it wrong! We should read everything anyone who has fought says - or else we may not think as others think we should, as our lives may depend on it some day, otherwise an ER tv doctor will not save us - or something…

How does SW or war movie logic equate to anything in the real world though? These are broad character archetypes and well worn arcs. This is a series where people are promoted to Commander and even General whenever anything vaguely heroic happens.

Post
#1223020
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

One thought I had, but what does everyone feel about the critical response? There are certain movies where it will be obvious they’re over praising something for one reason or another. But with this … is the negative audience that still yells about this six months later truly a minority? Though even I remember AOTC getting 5/5 in a certain print magazine… (right about here I got tired of even thinking about this, so I guess I’m done debating the matter? Eh)

Post
#1222668
Topic
Culture, politics, and diversity in Star Wars
Time

Perhaps with regards to Luke or the lack of proper context for the First Order/Resistance struggle, but I think a lot of these other ideas would be looked past in some cases. You have to read into many elements and ignore others to feel that TLJ is pushing some kind of agenda, while TPM has these cartoon characters walking about without any kind of tact. The new films have a lot of bumps on the paintwork but the overall picture is pleasing enough… in terms of the PT the canvass itself is bad.

Post
#1222319
Topic
Is Star Wars catering to girls now?
Time

Star Wars is catering for girls… it’s called Forces of Destiny. The zero budget flash animation/doll commercial. Everything else is pure lip service. They cast a wider net with the most recent stuff and the casting is done differently, sure. But broadening the demographic is different from when they actually try and please a particular group directly. See also: the 90s toyline that featured female characters wearing cloth outfits. Low effort, low return, same old. Girls have always liked SW obviously, but that’s not the same thing. Mega-corporations cater to what will sell and what sells rarely changes.

Post
#1222316
Topic
Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

oojason said:

DominicCobb said:

Mavimao said:

Here’s an excellent article on The Last Jedi and why it has elicited such a backlash from fans.

http://observer.com/2018/07/film-crit-hulk-the-beautiful-ugly-and-possessive-hearts-of-star-wars/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Hmm

DominicCobb said:

Insightful look on the film and its response (I guess I should say I don’t agree with everything said, but it’s worth reading):

http://observer.com/2018/07/film-crit-hulk-the-beautiful-ugly-and-possessive-hearts-of-star-wars/

Many quality, insightful and also challenging articles can be found at the Guardian & Observer (it’s Sunday sister paper) - pleasing to see them get some a mention and some love on here too 😃

I don’t think that site is related to those papers though.