Looks like Disney has been here all througout the years...
There's one questionsurprisingly no one asked about all this huge news... which is who the villain/antihero would be.
Of course they'll make some guy appear... but can a Star Wars movie belong without Vader's armor, or Vader's character as THE driving force? Yes, the prequels tried; we all knew that the prequels were just an excuse to see Vader again, to see how he got to his OT-self; same for ObiWan; but I think I'm not lying if I say the prequels failed.
I think that even with the oldies recast, when this new trilogy hits the charts we'll come to understand that the character that has printed the saga with his signature will no longer be there, even more, he'll be dead by the second act of the saga (the OT), and it would be very, very notorious for us fans. So yes, it's a big emotion, and I'm loving to know that Luke, Han and Leia will be back, but I honestly can't see how much of it will feel Star Wars without the main secondary (I know, it's a contradiction, but I wrote it on purpose) characters. Ben, Yoda, Vader are out of this story.
And it's a great interrogant, whether a SW movie can be driven with characters such as Admiral Ackbar and etc. without the ones we are used to. Because to me, (and so for Lucas, judging by the TV spots of all the prequels), the most beloved character of the Saga is darth.
Well, don't be! In spite of the videos not being new, the account had some movement yesterday.
At least we know he's alive, and he still wants his videos to be out there, so the edit still stands.
Those two videos were already out before Cutter dissapeared, so they're not strictly new.
However, that doesn't deny the fact that his youtube account had some movement again.
Allright. I guess I commited the crime of sharing some ideas, and so I was punished by being laughed at. and ridiculed. Won't participate on this thread anymore.
Just one thing Frink; hope that when you have to write in another language you do it with not even one typo or wrong word.
Cheers.
IMO, if all your life is a tragedy, then it's not a tragedy, it's a misery.
Anakin should know happiness sometime in his life. It's just one scene, referring to his original felicity at the begining of the movie. And we see how he ends.
Special edition change, lol
Cheers
I've actually played with the idea of the battle not being at the begining of ROTS... to make the battle last longer, and to give another structure to the movie, more puzzle like. Credits are to be given to Aalenfae too, with whom this brainstorming took place:
First of all, it needs to be said that this ideas took place not only as an effort to strenghten the movie but mainly to reinforce Anakin as a character with a mind and dramas of its own. So in this plot, it should be explicited in the scroll that he's left the Jedi Order, because he's married now, and maybe more, he's in service to the Republic as a chancellor/government/senate asistant and both jobs are ethically incompatible or something. I'd go with the married stuff, but both of them, even together could be sucessfully explained in the scroll.
The movie starts with a lone separatist shuttle flying by to a misterious dark planet, it enters the atmosphere. It's Utapau (Bob García actually DID this video, with utapau at night). We get introduced to grievous, but the orgiastic choral music is replaced by some mistery mood piece. The holo dialogue with Sidious should be altered.
The end of the war is near General, Count Dooku has kidnapped the chancellor over their capital, but we need you to lead te battle. After your return, you will send the leaders to Mustafar...
Or maybe: "I'll meet the leaders in mustafar to give shape to our new government"
Now that scene is setting up the structure of the movie, it presents us potencially every act that is to come. And it just recquires dialogue replacement with some good impersonator. This way, we won't get the feeling that the CSI is a faction that doesn't know what to do. And it certainly clarifies things, which is something the begining of ROTS is totaly lacking. While impressive, the current start of the movie is a mess of information, you can't process it, just swallow.
After this holochat, I'd cut to the Balcony scene, the cheesy one we all hate, I think it could work now. There's no baby reveal, the baby coming is a given fact, a natural fact that needs no "Anakin... I'm pregnant" stupid stuff. The exceptional situation with the Chancellor and the siege of Coruscant is presented from inside the planet now, in first person, and that first person is Anakin, who is in struggle about keeping his retirement or coming back, and maybe the dreams are what trigger anakin to return to the Order and help the republic.
Some things would acquire different meanings this way. Padme's stupid cry for them leaving to naboo and "leave everything else behind" is now under the crystal of a sieged city. And his pregnant woman and yet-to-be-born child is a strong cause to make him go to war. The exagerated sugar of the scene should be compensed by this fairwell sense, at a point.
Next scene should be Anakin meeting Obi Wan in the Jedi control room, we also got that scene, with holograms that could be replaced into schematics of the tactics to be applied in the battle.
Then, we shall need some aire, so cut to something else, more quiet maybe the rebellion scenes. It'd be curious to have the rebels meet while the Chancellor is captive, very figurative. The scene ends, and drums... the sun... camera pans down... the star destroyer and the battle of Coruscant.
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Other thing to be put here was to make the characters make their own decissions...Luke decides to go to Bespin, and the core of his drama is actually in making the good or bad decission, while in PT it's all destiny in the sens of greek drama, Anakin is constantly driven, and that's wrong. Little decissions can make big changes in our perceptions of characters. Here goes one, also with Aalenfae:
Anakin and ObiWan should chase Grievous after rescuing the Chancellor. No ray shields, it's not that they got caught, but that they took the decission to go face him. It's not a rescue mission anymore, it's a secret mission, with many objectives.
The way it is currently, it's like they are on the ship, they fall in the ray shields and since they're protagonists everything turns just fine when they face Grievous.
How to do this change?
Have Grievous say something about it, or maybe the battledroid, we got the security camera footage of them running through a corridor... then only the simple replacement of the line by the droid to "they're coming here" and Grievous saying something along the lines of "Skywaker, nice challenge" and voilá.
Cheers!
I'd separate visual continuinty, and plot continuity. PT is a total mess in almost every way.
Visually I admit that has some great points, and it wouldn't bother me if some PT elements were re-introduced in the OT. Particularly some republic ships at endor, both for the Empire and the Rebels. Also, the city of Coruscant should have its place at the OT in my view too.
Plot wise, all the PT elements that don't match the OT are in disadvantage, mainly because they don't have a reason to be, leading to a conflict in which one cannon, PT or OT will have to dominate the other. Changing Shaw for Christensen symbolises the thriumph of PT against OT plot, because it means the introduction of a non OT plot element (the force ghost preserving their last "good" appearance) in the very core of the OT.
This said, there are other changes that need to be done to the PT to make the movie watchable and believable. If you want to make a movie believable, even if it has aliens and 1000 stores buildings, you have to make the characters likeable to allow the spectator to identify himself with at least one of them. It doesn't happen (at least to me) with not even one of them, except Palpatine who is the only one that seems to have more than two neurons. Strenghtening the characters doesn't necessarly have to be a process that also comprehends matching the OT plot wise, you can do A, B o AB. Personally I found the whole strenghtening of the character the pivotal point of a good PT fan edit.
It doesn't matter if ObiWan didn't do what he said he did back in the OT, what definetely matters to me is that ObiWan, the wise and tricky old man is the same man in the PT, that is what gives continuity to the saga; and not him being some stupid legalist jedi, pure shell and no content.
Greetings!
I think they're representatives of two different approaches. Just like Brunelleschi or Bramante did regarding ancient art, Adywan aims to restore the current movies to their former glory and shining.
Angel, on the other hand, like Bernini or Borromini, while respecting the ancient language and syntax of architecture, allows himself some permissions that wouldn't have place in a more objective view, like Adywan has. I think that in part is the main reason for them not working together, or at least not working completely together, because in the end each other's work is rather famous within this community to be in vox populi, just like now.
I have always had more personal contact with Angel since I'm not so fond of the infalibility of the OT; and with Vaderios it's always an open discussion about what (in terms of script, story, and mainly visuals) could be done to fix it, although he's not so open to discussion on technical aspects, because he's a speciallist in image treatment, and he already knows the answer when you are just starting to ask. Ady instead already has the idea on his head, and the discussion is likely to go on the field of how to do it, as you can check on his thread, it's more about framerates, compression rates, compositing, and technical aspects, precisely because the idea of the edit never comes to question. But I want this to be clear, the revisited saga is not just "better than nothing", it's a bit more than that.
Probably the results, in terms of richness and impoluteness of Ady's and Angel's work would be similar or not-so-different, but in the end it's their two different creative processes what adds value to each of them. I feel enormous respect for both of them and their work (I think the Bramante-Borromini comparison said it all, hah)
I also feel extremely curious about PT:R, for Ady won't have a precise horizon as he has now when he puts an aim to the OT:R saying "the special editions as they should have been". Of course, he'll still have the premise, "prequels will match the OT and not vice-versa", but as you can imagine the freedom margin is quite huge to make almost everything he wants to improve those horrible movies. And that will be where his MO will change or at least be set to revision; as previously said, I wait to see what comes out of it.
Greetings!
Angel's been in the forum for a long time before you joined Titus, I think I've never seen anything of Angel in motion. He's mainly an illustrator.
Regarding the prequels, I think it's a more titanic idea than just changing the neimodians and gungan's voices. It all depends on the skillset of the artist (yes, to make the prequels into something close to cinema, you have to be an artist and not just a fan-editor) and I don't really think that would be a limit if you have Adywan. There's plenty of ideas to be implemented, some of them even being part of "integral" changes. I remember having sent a PM to Adywan with a "corpus" (my courpus, lol) of chained, progressive changes that could be made to strenghten the characters of the PT, I guess he'll get to it in time), but the point is that this possibility, indeed, this necessity of making structural changes to the trilogy is the reason why I celebrate Ady's decission of revisiting the three of them simultaneously.
Greetings!
You both giants here!
Listen, any of you willing to make it so that the characters are ahead of the viewer in terms of what's going on?
I think it could work:
a) The slave comes out of hiperspace, cut to "he doesn't take a hint this guy" and only when we are wandering what does Jango refer to, we see the Jedi starfighter coming out of hiperspace.
b) I think this one would work better, since it stranghtens obiwan and not jango, which is a character that isn't that important. ObiWan comes out of the asteroid tunnel, cuts to "oh dear" line, and only then we see that Jango is behind him and starts chasing him, this meaning at the exact moment he comes out of the tunnel, Kenobi has realised he's been set a trap.
I'm not towards the disyunctive A or B, for I'm also curious about how would both of the situations work together, and above all, how would they affect the impression we got of the characters.
Greetings!
I'm with Coov, whatever adds cleverness to the characters will ad to the edit. ObiWan would order that to R4 because the moment he gets outside the tunnel he knows he's in a disfavorable position. Think about what han would do.
I just found out about the 1313 game, and it seems to have pretty much of usable or potentially usable footage.
Eric, do you plan to add some music to the asteroid dogfight? I think it would help to build a more drastic feeling of danger.
Greetings!
I'm with Coov, whatever adds cleverness to the characters will ad to the edit. ObiWan would order that to R4 because the moment he gets outside the tunnel he knows he's in a disfavorable position. Think about what han would do.
I just found out about the 1313 game, and it seems to have pretty much of usable or potentially usable footage.
Eric, do you plan to add some music to the asteroid dogfight? I think it would help to build a more drastic feeling of danger.
Greetings!
Angel seems to have embraced retirement lol
The Clone Wars?
aalenfae said:
Haha, I wasn't offended at all.
It's just that Adywan has his thing, and I have mine.
*Thumbs up*
Thanks! I intend to keep it up!
In the meantime... I have no new RotS videos.
I'm kind of restructuring a lot of things with the edit. Not starting from scratch, really. But kind of. I've gotten significantly better at after effects and stuff like that, so I'm going to be doing some things over. Though, it's nice to comfort myself with the knowledge that it won't take NEARLY as long for the second go-through. Especially because now I know exactly what I want for some things.So while I try to organize all my crap for RotS, I've been taking breaks and working on TPM and AotC (but mostly AotC for now), and for that, I've got some stuff to show off:
This is an idea I got from Trooperman, I think. He replaced the footage of Obi-Wan's starfighter computer with Luke's droid translator from ESB. I loved the idea, but wanted to take it a little further
http://vimeo.com/46781852
The nightclub scene! I did another version earlier, if you wanna find that on my Vimeo page. But this one represents a musical choice offered by a friend. I like the mood it gives the nightclub, but I'm a little hesitant as it's not Star Wars music or John Williams music. Tell me what you think!
Oh, and there's also cutting changes throughout, of course.
Loved the first idea, I suggest you to add it to your trilogy if you manage to include it in all the shots; the only things I'd do to it is to colour correct the graphics in the display to a red gamma, and add some wires if possible, but hey, great call there!
Greetings!
Just to get a little back on the content and not to focus on the envelope format (which I'm not saying isn't important), watching the last video with a little more sharpened eye there are a few things that I noticed that while are not so in-the-eye, still could be improved. I'm not trying to be nitpicking, though I know I might be being it hah. "
First of all, in the sabre duel I notice something rather strange, don't know if it might be a compression defect, but I can see at some points a double sillohuette for Luke, I think it might be something related with the mask, or just my mind messing up"
Then, jumping a little forward, at 0:27 R2's eye should be cyan but it still shows its original blue, and finally, it would polish the video if leia wouldn't blink when chewie fires his gun at 4:11, or if chewie's shot impacted on any surface in 4:25
bobgarcia74 said:
Mithrandir said:
You still accepting suggestions/ideas for the edit bob?
Yeah. Feel free to post ideas. Alot of the edit is already locked into place. But who knows. If an idea is worth the time, I would consider adding it.
Even if having ObiWan cut Anakin down to pieces gives a lot of meaning to the circle of the saga and explains some things, in the OT Kenobi never shows any remorse to what he did to Anakin (which a true friend would feel), and he never mentions it to Luke, not even in his "final" reveal of the true story in ROTJ. On a point, lying and hiding the facts all-throughout the OT puts ObiWan in a not-very-heroic position, and rather far from what (I think) he deserves as a character.
But it's not this what I think only should be corrected in the PT, there are actually two lines from the OT that actually keep me somehow captive:
"When I left you I was but a learner..."
"I must obey my master"
I think there's still room for a twist in EPIII. What if Anakin foresees being chopped up by ObiWan, but instead, when the time comes, they swtich off their sabres and leave each other alive and well...
"You were my brother Anakin, I loved you"
"Don't make me kill you"
And they just leave each other there... then we'll come to realise that it's actually the Emperor himself who punishes his apprentices for not being mercyless and reckless. Palpatine torments Anakin in his office (if you are not planning to use the Vader hommage scene, then Anakin kneeling before Palpatine, with some FX and audio could do) until he gets all burned and ultimately ends up in the suit, and with literally a new dependancy!
Greetings!
You still accepting suggestions/ideas for the edit bob?
Where's Angel now?
At risk of being insistant since we already managed this hypothesis, I yet have one suggestion to make, for you could have possibly forgotten it, which is to re arrange the shots so that it is the Republic who's active and the CSI reactive. It involves taking out one shot of obi wan (with the line "I think this is gonna be easy")
It would set the Republic (even more) in a rather operative mood.
ANAKIN - Master, General Grievou's ship is directly ahead.
OBI WAN (considering Anakin's information, launches the order) - ARC 4 do you copy? Mark my position and set your squad up right behind me"
ARC Pilot - We're on your tail (?) General Kenobi
- Shot of the ARC 170 fighters lining up -
- Shot of the Vulture droids "realising" there's an inminent Republic assault (1: 23)-
- Shot of the ARC 170 fighters closing formation behind the Jedi Fighters (1:45)-
- Shot of a couple of vultures flying towards the republic formation (1:42)
OBI WAN - Let them pass between us.
IF you hadn't forgotten it, but rejected it then I fully understand and I offer you my apologies for insisting.
Greetings
Even though the HUD seemed a little barroque in the viewscreen shot, I haver to say that I don't like the idea of just a screen with not even one indicator or blinking light. I guess that a better base than most of cgi-fever PT tech would be the viewscreen shown at the very beginning of TPM, the one inside QuiGonn and ObiWan's shuttle. It has plenty of lights and looks quite retro, actually; one of the very few things that look OTish in PT.
If Ady says he's ok with it being just a viewscreen, of course it's his call.
Greetings!
Double Post - Please Delete
The video Eric made has (IMO) opened the door to a new potential idea, which is that both obi wan and anakin end up landing in that CIS ship just by coincidence (since obiwan gets hit and can't carry on the mission).
This way, it could be made that GG is in one ship, and anakin and obiwan are in another ship which only carries dooku and the chancellor. So Dooku appears to be more the maing villain, and the lines "the mission, anakin, the mission!" and "Not leaving without you master" are not off the edit.
In a way, this is more matinee-like (personally, I find it the more matinee like, the more star warsy), having the heroes "find" the chancellor by accident, and it would preserve grievous character from acting like a coward in the ship. However, it's been pointed out that with the existing material, pulling this out might be hard and provide unsatisfying results for it could end up being a very confusing cut.
So, if anyone has any idea detailed enough (naming shots, scenes, lines and cuts) to make this work, I think it could be a great idea for the edit. (Only if Eric agrees, of course)
PS: Another thing to arrange to make this work is to establish somehow why they are heading towards GG's ship at the beginning if the Chancellor is being held in an unknown place. But on a second thought, if the Jedi were just chasing GG's ship just because (say, tactics of the battle) and find Palpatine onboard Dooku's ship, in particularly nice conditions for a prisoner, it would certainly give Obi Wan something to think, and it would add another meaning to the later lines "beware of you friend palpatine" and the consequent Jedi vs the chancellor plot, having the "sith revelation" more as an asset than as the pivotal point, which would be the chancellor as suspect of treason to the republic. But I see I might be flying rather high from the ground, which is the film material