Mike O

User Group: Members
Join date: 20-Jun-2006
Last activity: 17-Apr-2024
Posts: 2,323

Post History

Post: #224336
Topic: Explaining the shoddy OOT treatment in public
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/224336/action/topic#224336
Time: 4-Jul-2006 5:29 PM

Yeah, GWTW was shot in full-frame, as was Casablanca, The Wizard of OZ, etc. If it was shot in academy ratio, that's how it should be seen.

Please don't think me arrogant, but just out of curisity, did widescreen exist prior to the 1950s? Wasn't the first picture filmed in cinemascope The Robe? Understand, I mean no offense! I'm just wondering.

Post: #224285
Topic: Are you Going to buy them ?
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/224285/action/topic#224285
Time: 4-Jul-2006 10:06 AM

Originally posted by: Darth_Evil

Originally posted by: Mike O

Originally posted by: Jobel
Of course if people don't buy them, Lucas will just take that as an indication that nobody wants the OT.

And therein lies the catch 22.

Exactly. However....there's another catch. Lucas is supposedly doing this as an experiment to find out which version people prefer. However, as any fifth grade science teacher will tell you, when you set up an experiment, there are some rules that must be followed, like having the experiment be fare. If you want to find out what food a frog prefers, you give it two different foods at different times. You don't just shove them down its throat at the same time.

If you didn't get my metaphor, to have a fair experiment, Lucas would have to package the OOT and the 2004SE seperately to see which sells better.

So, back to my starting point, catch number two is, even if this set sells better than any DVD ever sold, Lucas will just take it as people just wanted the 2004 edition again, only with new packaging and a second disk.

(That's why sending back SE discs is a good idea.)

There is a whole Thread about sending back the SEs. I wonder, if a good number of people do it, how Lucas will react, and what message it will send. See the thing is, Lucas will of course know why they did not sell well if they do not. But he will still have a valid excuse for not releasing the OOT again. That is, of course, if this release doesn't sell well. I ran into a pair of people at Blockbuster the other day who grew up with the OOT and were none too thrilled at the SEs. I'm wondering how much of the general population, people who do not know or care about the non-anamorphic issue, will buy these DVDs. If they do sell well, then one of several thing could happen. Lucas could say that now people have what he considers to be an inferior version and he never needs to release it again. Or, God willing, he will see that there is a market for it and contact Robert A. Harris. If restored versions of the OOT are included on the 30th anniversary boxed set, I would buy it without a moment's hesitation, unless it got horrendous reviews. So that I can sleep at night

, I tell myself that LFL is releaseing these to test the waters (which I discussed in the afforementioned thread) to see if they should include a better version of the OOT in the upcoming boxed set. I doubt it, of course, but its something to hope for. A remastered OOT=more sales. If it is included in the boxed set, which will of course be high-priced, Lucas knows that people like me would pay through the nose to get it. But whoever said that LFL think logically, especially when it comes to the OOT?

Post: #224283
Topic: Explaining the shoddy OOT treatment in public
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/224283/action/topic#224283
Time: 4-Jul-2006 9:52 AM

Originally posted by: SW
If we can view Gone with the wind at 16;9 i think ! Then why not Star Wars ?

Wasn't Gone With the Wind filmed in the Academy Ratio of 1.33:1 of 1.37:1, fullscreen? Did widescreen exist back then? Oh, and hte unfortunate answer to your question is that Lucas feels that these are nothing more than rough drafts and that the SEs are the movies, period, and that ergo, the Star Wars trilogy has been released in 16:9. Nevermind that The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring, Alien, The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers, Aliens, The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King, Alien 3, Vanishing Point, Alien Resurrection, The Abyss, Terminator 2: Judgment Day, E.T. The Extraterrestrial, Apocalypse Now, Blade Runner, Brazil, Braindead, and The Leopard, to name a few DVDs, all present both version in high-quality.

Post: #224109
Topic: Why all the negative coments about george lucas?
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/224109/action/topic#224109
Time: 3-Jul-2006 7:07 PM

Originally posted by: Mielr
Lucas has brought most of this on himself. Unlike Spielberg, Cameron, etc., he INSISTS on forcing the SE down our throats. I really thinks he takes the fans for granted, and I'm sure that those of us who prefer the OOT annoy him to no end.

See, that's the thing that I think angers a lot of people. Lucas is entitled to do whatever he wants to the films he owns. Fans criticize Lucas because he continues to state the OOT does not exist. I cannot think of any other filmaker who wants to surpress a version of their own work so badly. I don't hate Lucas. Why would I? For all I know, he may very well be a nice man. I just want a high quality copy of the OOT on DVD with crisp anamorphic widescreen and booming sound form the original mixes, like 99.99% of the DVDs which have been released. I also want this version to be made available on HD-DVD, Blu-Ray, and future home video formats so that I am given a choice about which version to watch. People criticize Lucas because he wants to surpress these versions of the films. People criticize him because he does not want to make these version availible to the viewing public, many of whom prefer them. I never said it was my movie. But I love the original version of it, and want a high quality release of the OOT. Lucas does not want to make this available when he is capable of doing so. Therefore, people criticize him. The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring, Alien, The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers, Aliens, The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King, Alien 3, Vanishing Point, Alien Resurrection, The Abyss, Terminator 2: Judgment Day, E.T. The Extraterrestrial, Apocalypse Now, Blade Runner, Brazil, Braindead, and The Leopard, are all available in multiple versions, among others. Why not three of the most popular and influential films ever made? That, I think, is why people criticize George Lucas.

Post: #224104
Topic: Are you Going to buy them ?
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/224104/action/topic#224104
Time: 3-Jul-2006 6:46 PM

Originally posted by: Jobel
Of course if people don't buy them, Lucas will just take that as an indication that nobody wants the OT.

And therein lies the catch 22.

Post: #224057
Topic: Soundtrack Listing
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/224057/action/topic#224057
Time: 3-Jul-2006 3:34 PM

How can it be lost if it's in the film?

Post: #223902
Topic: What are you going to do with your SE discs?
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/223902/action/topic#223902
Time: 2-Jul-2006 1:40 PM

Originally posted by: Scruffy

Originally posted by: Davis
I definitely think we should all mail the same letter. It'd be really fitting- when we complained about the 16x9 issue, they just gave us a form response.

So we give them a form response when we send our discs back.

I think that line of thought is too clever for its own good.

How about putting their "We want you to be aware that we have no plans-now or in the future to restore the earlier versions" above something to the effect of "Then, unfortunately, I have no plans, now or in the future to purchaes future Star Wars releases until a restoration of the original versions is produced." Something polite, but which lets them know that we heard them and want them to hear us. It wouldn't insult anyone. It'd just make a point.

Post: #223899
Topic: What is meant by 'Special Edition'?
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/223899/action/topic#223899
Time: 2-Jul-2006 1:33 PM

Originally posted by: Mielr
Yeah I thought it was really sneaky of them to make no mention on the 2004 boxed set, that they were the Special Editions (or this week's version of the Special Editions, anyway).

What, you mean you wanted a high-quality choice between both versions? Like the DVDs of The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring, Alien, The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers, Aliens, The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King, Alien 3, Vanishing Point, Alien Resurrection, The Abyss, Terminator 2: Judgment Day, E.T. The Extraterrestrial, Apocalypse Now, Blade Runner, Brazil, Braindead, and The Leopard, to name a few DVDs? Is that what you mean?

Post: #223898
Topic: Explaining the shoddy OOT treatment in public
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/223898/action/topic#223898
Time: 2-Jul-2006 1:23 PM

Originally posted by: Guy Caballero
What really sucks is trying to explain the whole thing to anyone in the outside world. Come September, it's going to be hard to come off as anything but bitter nerds. "No, this IS the version I want, but anamorphic blah blah". It just sounds so lame. We're going to be easy to dismiss.

I constantly hear that. Go over to the non-anamorrphic announcement at Ain't It Cool News. The bashing OOT fans get for complaining is unbelieveable. In a few years, when 16X9 T.V.s become the norm, this issue will come into sharper focus (no pun intended). It's just that people look and go "whiny fanboys." I'm very glad that the OOT is coming out on DVD, but if Hillside Cannibals and the other obscure B-movie rentals at Blockbuster can contain anamorphic widescreen and crisp 5.1 and 2.0 sound, why can't what are arguably the three most popular movies ever made in the version that many people seem to prefer?

The negatives of the OOT were destroyed, so the Laserdisc master is the only high quality source left to make a DVD.

Didn't Lucas attempt to destroy all of the original prints of the OOT to ensure that it "doesn't exist" and that the SEs are the only version available?

It would cost a fortune to make a new transfer from surviving film elements.

Lucasfilm Limited is a multi-billion dollar company which owns on the most popular and lucrative marketing franches in the world. Robert A. Harris, the noted film restorationist who restored Lawrence of Arabia, Vertigo, and Sparticus has volunteered his services. Quite frankly, there are a lot of people, like myself, who would pay quite a bit for a properly restored version of the OOT. It just seems like viable business to me. But I'm not in charge of a multi-billion dollar company, so I could be wrong.

But in the end, it is just about them being non-anamorphic. Luckily, as a 4:3 TV user, the non anamorphic issue does not bother me.

Now. But who knows? 16X9 T.V.s could become the norm in the future.

We should be grateful that Lucas is doing his fans a favour and release the OOT, no matter what quality comes out. The Goodwill counts.

Yes, and I am glad that it is being released, but I still think that there is vailidity to comlaining here.

Possibly the best way to frame the argument is to ask how they would feel if another movie they loved was treated so badly. Imagine the outcry if the only version of Gone With the Wind the public could ever see again was this!

Yes, but unfortunately, The Star Wars DVD situation is unlike any other because of the "The SEs are the movies. Period." side of the argument.

Post: #223896
Topic: Soundtrack Listing
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/223896/action/topic#223896
Time: 2-Jul-2006 1:11 PM

Originally posted by: Neil S. Bulk
Star Wars

The Empire Strikes Back

Return of the Jedi

Neil

Thanks Mr. Bulk. i thought that you might be able to help. This might interest you. Another non-anamorphic DVD release in 2006. For shame. The strange thing is that this particulra season was filmed in widescreen, and they only decided to release it as such after a mass letter-writing campaign. Future sets will be 16X9. You think in 2006 widesceen automatically=anamorphic. Thanks again sir.

Are you also interested in his other soundtrack recordings, or just the Star Wars movies?

Well, I obviously brough this up here because it's a Star Wars forum, but I'd be most interested in other soundtracks as well. Thanks.

Post: #223546
Topic: Soundtrack Listing
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/223546/action/topic#223546
Time: 30-Jun-2006 7:15 PM

Is there perchance a listing of the Star Wars sountracks that have been availible like the Davis DVD lising of the video releases? I am a John Williams fan, so I just wondered. Thanks

Post: #223544
Topic: What are you going to do with your SE discs?
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/223544/action/topic#223544
Time: 30-Jun-2006 7:06 PM

Originally posted by: Mielr

Originally posted by: Mike O

Since it is "bonus material," they technically don't have to list anything about, or at least that is what it looks like. I wonder how much of the general population will buy this release; in other words, I wonder if it's just us who are interested in the OOT, or whether others are as well. I hope against hope that this release will sell well and send a clear message to LFL, but who knows? If the 30th Anniversary boxed set did contain high-quality releases of the OOT, I would buy it without question. But at this point, it looks like everything is up in the air.

Whatever became of the plan to mail back the SE discs? Is it still going on? And how many people are doing it. Just idol curiosity.

I think they will sell very well. I'm sure they're going to be marketing them heavily, especially since they are a "limited edition" to go out of print right after Christmas. I think they will use nostalgia as a marketing tool, and aim them at those who were old enough to have seen them in the theaters originally (baby boomers and gen-Xers).

I'm planning on sending my discs back to Lucasfilm. I was considering selling them on eBay, but I doubt I will get very much for them.

Who else is planning on sending their SE discs back to GL???

I sincerely hope that you are right, the discs sell well, and that LFL is sent a clear message. At this point, all I can do is cross my fingers. Still, LFL aren't exactly shy about multiple release, and the MTV interview commments by Lucas are very telling. Are LFL marketing the heck out of this? I haven't seen any adds yet. Well, it's back to the waiting game. Those sending back their SE discs are mentioned at the beginning of the thread. I wonder if anyone else is going to be involved?

Post: #223519
Topic: What are you going to do with your SE discs?
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/223519/action/topic#223519
Time: 30-Jun-2006 5:38 PM

Originally posted by: Mielr
Originally posted by: Mike O

See, now, here's the catch 22. Since a lot of people won't buy non-anamorphic releases, it may affect sales. The question is, how good will sales of these releases be and what kind of message will that send? I suppose that we'll find out in a few months. Lets keep our fingers crossed...apparently for the next year at least.

"It probably won't say on the package "non-anamorphic" just "widescreen-letterbox" or just "widescreen". Those who don't visit these boards probably won't even know until they get home and try to watch it on their widescreen TV."

Since it is "bonus material," they technically don't have to list anything about, or at least that is what it looks like. I wonder how much of the general population will buy this release; in other words, I wonder if it's just us who are interested in the OOT, or whether others are as well. I hope against hope that this release will sell well and send a clear message to LFL, but who knows? If the 30th Anniversary boxed set did contain high-quality releases of the OOT, I would buy it without question. But at this point, it looks like everything is up in the air.

Whatever became of the plan to mail back the SE discs? Is it still going on? And how many people are doing it. Just idle curiosity.

Post: #223517
Topic: What is meant by 'Special Edition'?
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/223517/action/topic#223517
Time: 30-Jun-2006 5:32 PM

Originally posted by: Scruffy
You are correct that only the 1997 edition was ever subtitled or advertised as the Special Edition. In 2000, Lucasfilm rereleased the Special Edition on VHS as simply the "Star Wars Trilogy." However, the 2004 edition is colloquially (and occasionally officially) referred to as the Special Edition, too. You can speculate all you want about why they're so coy over which version is which, but I don't think you'll ever reach a firm answer.

Lucasfilm's recent offical response to the fans displeased with the non-anamporphic transfer referenced it as the Special Edition. Perhaps it has stopped being subtitled as such because of Lucas's desire to make it into the only version.

Post: #223515
Topic: Remember when everyone hated Return of the Jedi?
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/223515/action/topic#223515
Time: 30-Jun-2006 5:30 PM

Originally posted by: Invader Jenny

Originally posted by: JediFlyer06
Ewoks were not a horrendous BACKGROUND character. But, even at the age of eleven, I never believed that a band of teddy bears with sticks and stones would defeat a legion of the Emperor's best troops in a single afternoon..."not no way, not no how." That was just silly.

You see, that's strange. When I was 11 and saw ROTJ for the first time I thought that the Ewoks worked brilliantly. They were the embodiment of innocents, hope, and goodness. The stormtroopers were harsh, military, narrow minded (and weak minded) drones who's only task was to do what the emperor told them. It's a classic subplot on a variation of David and Golith.

To this day, I don't have problems with Ewoks. I know that everybody hates them, but I don't. They are proof that you don't need military superiority to win an impossible battle. You just need srength of will. Sure they lost some Ewoks on the way, but in the end good won over evil.

Mind-bogglingly bizzare though it may sound, I actually once heard the Ewoks refereced as an allegory for Vietnam (okay...). To me Return of the Jedi suffers from the same sydrome as movies like Alien 3 and Romero's Day of the Dead. While it has many good elements in its own right, it is overshadowed by it's two vastly superior predecessors, and a series of flaws. In other words, "there's a good movie in here somewhere" syndrome. Other examples may include Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines and The Godfather, Part III. As for the Ewoks being able to beat the Stormtroopers, that is in many ways true, and I do find it odd that the the Stormtroopers, as the force for the most evil Empire in the galaxy sure don't seem to be the sharpest tools in the intergalactic shed. Interesting interpretation Jenny. I think that part of the reason that Jedi is looked upon the way that it is that like the afforementioned over/underrated films previously mentioned, it serves more to tie up loose ends than anything else. Jedi has some great elements( the space battle and the superb Luke-Vader sequence at the finale for instance), but it's whole seems to be less than the sum of its parts. I enjoy it for what it is, but I certainly think that there is a great deal of validity to the claims that it is not a fitting end to the trilogy in comparison to Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back. A lot more could be said about Jedi, but this post is too long already, so I'll stop now.

Post: #223075
Topic: What are you going to do with your SE discs?
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/223075/action/topic#223075
Time: 29-Jun-2006 12:28 PM

Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
Oh, that logic pisses me off so much. Not you, just this rationale. We have to buy the crappy ones now in order to get the opportunity to buy the better ones later. Doesn't that sound just a little bit wrong to you?

And there is the catch 22.

Post: #222450
Topic: Remember when everyone hated Return of the Jedi?
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/222450/action/topic#222450
Time: 27-Jun-2006 2:15 PM

Originally posted by: Skyranger
I just have to wonder what ROTJ, and the prequels would have been had Gary Kurtz remained the producer for the entire series.

I would guess that Lucas had more influence on the stylistic change than did the new producers.

Post: #221389
Topic: What are you going to do with your SE discs?
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/221389/action/topic#221389
Time: 24-Jun-2006 12:50 AM

Click on this link:

Quote

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by: Ozkeeper
Slow to post, but here is link to the quote from GL mentioned a page or so back.

George-Now we'll find out whether they really wanted the original or whether they wanted the improved versions.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ah, I see. Good point. I just hope that he meant what we think that he meant. I guess what I mean is, even if he is testing the waters, I wonder whether or not this will dictate future releases (and if it will, then hopefully we can see theatrical version of THX 1138 at some point).

'Until then, he says he's curious to see what the reception will be for the upcoming limited-edition DVD release of the three original "Star Wars" films (see "Three Original 'Star Wars' Films (Finally) Coming To DVD — But Not For Long"). "It's just the original versions, as they were," Lucas said. "We didn't do anything to it at all. But we're not sure how many people want that."

You might say quite a few, considering how many fans were angered by the digitized, expanded updates of episodes IV, V and VI. Lucas claims he's not re-releasing the originals to appease fans, but rather to bate them. "Now we'll find out whether they really wanted the original or whether they wanted the improved versions," he said. "It'll all come out in the end."'

See, now, here's the catch 22. Since a lot of people won't buy non-anamorphic releases, it may affect sales. The question is, how good will sales of these releases be and what kind of message will that send? I suppose that we'll find out in a few months. Lets keep our fingers crossed...apparently for the next year at least.

Post: #221387
Topic: What are you going to do with your SE discs?
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/221387/action/topic#221387
Time: 24-Jun-2006 12:43 AM

Obviously this release shows that Lucas has changed his mind about never releasing the OOT on DVD at all. The question is whether this it, or whether future release, as well as a restoration, an anamorphic transfer, and 2.0 and 5.1 and mono sound are in the future of OOT DVD releases. I don't know whether the OOT will be on the 30th anniversary set, and I also don't know whether they will ever see the light of day on Blu-Ray, HD, or future formats. Still, to be optimistic, if the 2007 set is going to be "archival," then perhaps it will be on there. Maybe, just maybe, if this release sells well, Lucas will see that there is a market for it and continue with releases of it. It seems that this is a waiting game again. Right now, all that we can do is wait and hope. Thanks for making me feel welcome on the forums, by the way.

"We don't have to wonder if he's testing the waters with these DVDs anymore- because he's basically admitted it already."

In what way?

Post: #221336
Topic: What are you going to do with your SE discs?
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/221336/action/topic#221336
Time: 23-Jun-2006 7:53 PM

Originally posted by: Mielr

Originally posted by: Ozkeeper
Slow to post, but here is link to the quote from GL mentioned a page or so back.

George-Now we'll find out whether they really wanted the original or whether they wanted the improved versions.

Thanks very much for that link.

He also says:
"It's just the original versions, as they were," Lucas said. "We didn't do anything to it at all. But we're not sure how many people want that."

He really has no clue.

I was thinking that perhaps, now that all six episodes have come out and the saga is over, the OOT is the only thing left that has not been released. And since LFL often release multiple releases of the Star Wars films, perhaps this is just testing the waters. However, as mentioned, it's a catch 22, since this release could dictate future releases, especially with the 30th anniversary coming up. It's a vain hope, I know, and it seems like a foolishly optimistic, but who knows? That thought can help me sleep at night, anyway

Post: #220308
Topic: Addresses and contacts for various media outlets go in here
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/220308/action/topic#220308
Time: 20-Jun-2006 5:36 PM

Originally posted by: Mielr

Originally posted by: Mike O
Given that about 75,000 people signed the petition, perhaps Jay could enlist their support and we could all agree on a specific day to send e-mails. Given the influx of new members, if these addresses all receve 75,000+ e-mails on the same topic on same day, it'd be hard for them to ignore. Just a suggestion.

That's a fantastic idea- Jay has the email addresses for everyone who signed the petition, maybe he could send out an email to everyone on the list and ask them to help out.

Thanks. I'm new here. It's nice to feel welcome.

"In answer to your question, the Library of Congress would HAVE TO have prints of all three films, as they must have copies of all printed/filmed material on record. Lucas saying that there are no prints is misleading at best, an outright fib at worst."

Didn't Lucas do everything that he could to destroy all possible prints of the original versions of Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back, and Return of the Jedi to ensure that the SE are only versions in existence? And then there is the question of the 35mm stereo, the 70 mm six-track, and the mono.

Post: #220253
Topic: What are you going to do with your SE discs?
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/220253/action/topic#220253
Time: 20-Jun-2006 3:00 PM

Post: #220251
Topic: Addresses and contacts for various media outlets go in here
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/220251/action/topic#220251
Time: 20-Jun-2006 2:59 PM

Given that about 75,000 people signed the petition, perhaps Jay could enlist their support and we could all agree on a specific day to send e-mails. Given the influx of new members, if these addresses all recieved 75,000+ e-mails on the same topic on same day, it'd be hard for them to ignore. Just a suggestion.