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Mike O

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20-Jun-2006
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17-Apr-2024
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2,323

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Post
#225274
Topic
"Original Vision"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/225274/action/topic#225274
Time
As long as high quality versions of the original versions are made available, I am all for Lucas following his "original vision." The question is, what exactly is his "original vision?" The 1997 SEs have been buried. If he makes further changes for the 2007 set, how will he say that the 2004 versions "don't exist" when so many people own them? I don't exactly know what Lucas's "original vision" is and, apparently, neither does he.
Post
#225272
Topic
Lucas may have caved, here is a link to Barnes & Noble early review of the O-OT DVD's:
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/225272/action/topic#225272
Time
I actually suggested having Jay be the leader of this a while back, but somebody said that Jay might not approve of buying the DVDs in the first place. I'd still really like to hear what Jay thinks about this sendback idea, though. The purpose of this site now could be to organize a mass-sendback movement, instead of the petition site that it once was.

We need to do something. This upcoming situation has escalated the battle to save the OOT. I think that a new petition is in order, but the send-back program is interesting as well. And even if Jay does not buy the September release, many will. Its just that everyone here is so passionate, that I only hope that we can do something. By the way, Mielr, thanks very much. You've been very welcoming to me.


About the idea of sending the SE discs back to Lucas, I don't mean to sound like a pessimistic curmudgeon, but how effective do you think this would really be? A huge number of people would have to get behind this, and Lucas has already demonstrated that he will do what he wants with little regard for his original fans. It's a very dramatic and poignant gesture, but by the time you send the discs back, he's already got your money.


We won't know until we try. Don't worry, you don't sound like a curmudgeon . You're just being a realist. But before, it was a waiting game. Now, it seems, that the battle for Helm's Deep (the OOT) is over and the Battle for Middle Earth (a high quality release) is about to begin. [passionate rant] We must fight. Put up signs and posters with the originaltilogy.com logo and a slogan of some sort (I like "Join the rebellion"). Go door to door if necessary. Wouldn't it be great to see Mr. Sylvester's name in Newseek or Time? Recruit as many people as possible. These are far more than films. They are both important cultural artifacts and pieces of many people's lives. The Home Theater Forum, The Digital Bits. They both have OT.com members waiting to happen. A new petition? We must fight! In watching our DVD many years from now would you be willing to trade all these night without a high-quailty trasfer for a chance-a fighting chance-to tell Lucas that may use CGI, bt he will never destroy the trilogy!. One for the Braveheart fans. In all seriousness, we can still win. Mr Sylvester has gotten us this far. With his help, we may still be able to save the situation. [rant over]
Post
#225024
Topic
Lucas may have caved, here is a link to Barnes & Noble early review of the O-OT DVD's:
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/225024/action/topic#225024
Time
Originally posted by: Tiptup
The disk return should get a degree of official focus on this website if possible.


I've hardly seen Jay at all lately. I wonder what he'd think. I wonder how the petioners would feel. 75,000+ people X 3-6
discs per person is quite a few. I wonder if LFL would get/open the package and Lucas would get the message. I have never ever joined a forum before, but following the non-anamorphic announcement, I felt inclined to support this one and join up. I have a great deal of respect for George Lucas, but I also very much want the OOT on DVD. I just wanted to thank Jay and eveyone involved wit this site. The OOT means a lot to me, and I hope that we can save it. I just don't ever want to come across as some forum jerk either. I wonder, if we work hard enough, if we cann get a restored version of the OOT onto the 30th anniversary boxed set.
Post
#225003
Topic
Some ludicrously optimistic thoughts...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/225003/action/topic#225003
Time
Originally posted by: Mielr
Originally posted by: Mike O
Is it even vaguely possible that Lucas, especially given his recent comments in the MTV interview about finding out which version people prefer, is releasing the September release to test the waters to see if there is money in including the OOT in the 30th anniversary boxed set. It would be logical (not that LFL have ever been logical when it comes to the OOT, but...). With Robert A. Harris volunteering, and the mass of complaints about the release (so overwhelming, in fact, that LFL actually answered), is it possible?
I think the OOT will be released properly....eventually. If, for no other reason, than GL will have to keep coming up with new Star Wars material to release on video. He'll make us wait, that's for sure, but I think it will happen. If you'd asked me that question 6 months ago, I would have been skeptical, but with this 9/12 release, it's a sign of things to come.



Let us hope that you are correct. This waiting game is agonizing though.

I can't wait till the home theater and entertainment mags start doing their reviews of the DVDs- they're going to rip him a new one!


THX. The best sound. The best picture. LFL can't have this both ways.
Post
#225001
Topic
Explaining the shoddy OOT treatment in public
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/225001/action/topic#225001
Time
The best place to check to see how well these discs are selling is to check Amazon.com's best selling DVD list, especally during the first week, as that is the time which often indicated how well future sales will do. The OOT discs have been in top ten bestselling list when I search for Star Wars too. It seems that even with the treatment they are getting, many people prefer these to the SEs. Interesting. I wonder what will happen if they sell well. If they sell this well when people are threatening to boycott them, imagine how well they would sell if they were restored. I hope.
Post
#224997
Topic
Lucas may have caved, here is a link to Barnes & Noble early review of the O-OT DVD's:
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/224997/action/topic#224997
Time
Originally posted by: darkhelmet
Thanks for the kick in the butt, Mielr. I emailed Jim Ward a while back about the non-anamorphic thing but haven't made multiple attempts until tonight. All we can do is make our voices heard, now with correspondence or later by withholding our money. Like a lot of us fans are, I'm pretty burned out on worrying about what Lucas will or won't do, so my email was pretty much just polite brass tacks. I can't get that emotionally involved any more.

We should probably keep up the contact. Here's what I wrote to Lynne Hayle, Jim Ward, Fox Studios and the others that Mielr provided the addresses for:

"Dear Lucasfilm and Fox Studios,

Please, reconsider the plans for the upcoming September DVD release of the original theatrical versions of the Star Wars Trilogy, three of the most popular and beloved movies in film history.

It would be wonderful if they could be enjoyed in the industry-standard anamorphic format that maximizes the presentation regardless of the final screen on which the DVDs are displayed.

Sincerely,
Michael Banks,
Star Wars Fan"

Nothing flowery; just facts and disappointment.

I understand, it's easy to get burned out and frustrated, especially when you feel like you don't have a voice. I get very angry when I think about George Lucas, and the fact that he might be allowing the original film elements of the OOT to deteriorate, when he could & should be saving them. I think what he's doing is nothing short of criminal.


Are either of you sending back the SE discs to Lucas/ It will be interesting to see how many people do and what effect it has.



Film deteriorates even in ideal storage conditions. If he hasn't made an effort to make preservation copies of all of the OOT material, we're screwed.


With some time, effort, and money, they could be restored to pristeen condition.
Post
#224971
Topic
What are you going to do with your SE discs?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/224971/action/topic#224971
Time
Originally posted by: Mielr
I don't even care if they ever release the OOT with 5.1 sound- I'm perfectly happy with the 2.0 sound from the laserdiscs.

I think we are all pretty reasonable and undemanding, which makes me even more angry at GL. We really have asked for so little- just give us a new anamorphic transfer of the OOT, George. Nuthin' fancy.


I would like a 5.1 mix alongside the originals like every DVD released today. Indeed, the fans ask for so little and still can't get. It's frustrating.
Post
#224923
Topic
The Official Lucasfilm Response
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/224923/action/topic#224923
Time
Originally posted by: The Bizzle
lynne.hale@lucasfilm.com

This is the response I just sent back to her:

Subject: Hey Lynne. Read your email response.

And that part where you say “we could not put the extraordinary time and resources into this project as we did with the Special Editions?”

The extraordinary time and resources bit is a crock. You guys rushed Lowry for the 2004 editions, and no one's even asking for THAT level of dedication here, really. We just want new transfers. It can be done, and we know it can, we know the film elements DO EXIST, and that this transfer CAN be finished. No one’s talking pristine cleanup, dirt removal. Just a new master, not the old 93 laserdisc master. Which, by the way, made your publicity dept look a little foolish, since Jim Ward said Lucasfilm looked deep in the vaults for elements. How deep you gotta go to dig up the LD master?

If you simply JUST DON'T WANT TO DO THIS then say so, but don't hide behind some set of false mitigating circumstances designed to shift blame from this shoddy business decision. It costs money to make money, you've got 12 billion in merchandise sales over the past 30 years, you can cough up the relatively low price for someone along the lines of Robert Harris to go in and, using the film elements that ARE more than likely available, give the Star Wars movies some semblance of justice.

Dont' say you can't. Because that rings utterly, hollowly false.

If you're going to spend all that marketing money making these original versions the crown jewel of your campaign to get these discs out the door, you can spend a little bit more to polish that jewel instead of trying to shove a Crackerjack ring in a black velvet jewelry box and telling me how much fun I'm having for getting it. Because the focus of your marketing isn't "You can buy them separately for the first time ever." it's "BUY THE ORIGINALS FINALLY." So something seems a little incongruous that you're willing to spend on the advertising but not the picture itself.

It's well within your means and well within street date. License it out if you have to. If you can license out the right to make Jar Jar lollipops where 7 year olds suck on his tongue, you can license out the originals to a company like Criterion to do justice to the films where you won’t. You’ll still get the money and then some, without actually putting ANY of the cost in that way.

The options are sitting there, BEGGING for you to take one of them. And instead, you pick the worst possible option and then try to market it down our throats as a fun gift and the center of your campaign. That’s beyond dishonest.

Your company is better than this. Prove it. Please.


Yeah, time to send responses back to lynne.hale@lucasfilm.com. That is if we have any fight left. I see a lot of dejected "dammits' going around and fans seriously think it's not worth it. But man--if they're not going to even TRY, then they need to license this out to a company that will. they'll still profit, they'll still get their money. They won't have to put the effort in like they apparently can't be assed to do. Someone else can, and someone else will. You think Criterion is gonna turn this down? You got Robert Harris volunteering. They wanna do it--LET EM.

There's still time.


Well put! Unfortunately, I don't think that LFL will Let em.
Post
#224922
Topic
What are you going to do with your SE discs?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/224922/action/topic#224922
Time
Yes, but I think that what upsets so many people is that LFL CAN restore the OOT and release a high quality transfer and that they WON'T. As I've said, I don't run a multi-billion dollar company, so maybe there is some aspect which I don't understand. But to me, it's quite simple. Restore the OOT with the appropriate sound mixes and make even more money.
Post
#224919
Topic
The Official Lucasfilm Response
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/224919/action/topic#224919
Time
Originally posted by: 20th Century Mark
I think that Lucas knows that so many people don't like the changes he made, so he can't admit he is wrong. In his opinion, he improved the movies and he knows now that people prefere the OOT. His ego can't handle it. I think this release is an atempt to shut some people up. And unfortunatly, it might work.


That is what worries me most. If this release doesn't sell well, he'll say that no one wanted it. If it does, he could say that now everyone who wanted it has it. Hopefully, though, he instead think that the OOT=more money. I would say that Lucas doesn't want it released because he is a purist who cares more about his vision than money but...well, to put it politely, his actions seem to indicate otherwise. I wonder if this will end up like like the situation where WB only wanted to include the Donner Cut of Superman II in the boxed set or the MGM release of the unrated Robocop in the trilogy set because they know full well that people will pay exhorbitant amounts for the best available version of their favorite movie. If the 30th anniversary boxed set included the OOT remastered, I would, sad to say, probably pay and eye-gouging price for it.
Post
#224897
Topic
Pirates of the Caribbean Two
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/224897/action/topic#224897
Time
I appear to be the only one who was not that enamored of the first Pirates. I thought that it was decent popcorn chomping, but little else. Then again, I though the same thing about Steven Summers's The Mummy. I don't think them bad films, simply mediocre. Critics are always tricky. On hand, there's the "lighten up, it's just an action flick attitude." On the other hand, Star Wars, Aliens, The Terminator, The Wild Bunch, The Empire Strikes Back, Seven Samurai, Face/Off, The Road Warrior, The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring, Return of the Jedi, Jaws, The Lord of the Rings: The Two Tower, Raiders of the Lost Ark, Saving Private Ryan, The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King, The Abyss, Terminator 2: Judgment Day, Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone, Fort Apache, The Searchers, Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets, Winchester '73, X-Men, Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban, 3:10 to Yuma, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire, Spider-Man, X2, Batman Begins, Superman Returns, Spider-Man 2, Superman: The Movie, King Kong, Superman II, and Foreign Correspondent, to name a few films all offer up plenty of action without insulting your intelligence and often offer up far, far more than sound and fury. Of course, after a hard day at work, sometimes I just want to kick back and watch The Lost World: Jurassic Park or Blade II rather than a Bergman film, with some sugary candy to chew on. So, both side have merit. I saw Superman Returns the other day, by the way, and whatever flaws it may have it is well worth seeing, if only for Spacey.
Post
#224891
Topic
Lucas talks about the Sept 12th Release of the O-OT
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/224891/action/topic#224891
Time
surely the new DVD's only need to outsell the 2005 repackaging rather than the original 2004 to send out a clear message as to which version of the movies the public wants

You would think.

although I'm sure if they do make record sails George will say it's all due to the fact they're being offered individually for the very first time.


Aren't catch 22s fun?
Post
#224887
Topic
The Official Lucasfilm Response
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/224887/action/topic#224887
Time
Originally posted by: ADigitalMan
That's it in a nutshell. But his notion is dead wrong. Because his "perfectionism" has caused people to actually hate Star Wars when they didn't before. Immaculate CG does not tell a story. His ability to tell a story has diminished, and he's screwed up the ones that didn't need fixing in the first place. He's changing history because he can. He's mucking up his stories because he can. He's holding out on the very people who made him what he is because he can.

C-3PO or Han Solo would call it delusions of grandeur, but I have one word to describe his entire attitude: Megalomania.


I just don't undestand it, that's all. Why does he hate his own creations so much? It would be one thing if the studio had edited them like the infamous "Love conquers all" version of Brazil (which, although Gilliam despises it with every fiber of his being, is still available), but he made them...well, some of them. I keep wondering if there is some deep-seated reason for it.
Post
#224645
Topic
Funny Amazon review for OOT DVD
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/224645/action/topic#224645
Time
Originally posted by: Cable-X1
This review pretty much sums up what I feel....I just don't care anymore. All I want are the originals in the best possible way and that's that.

I know I've said I won't give Lucas another cent, but I will be buying these for the originals and shitcanning the 2004 version and the packaging. I'm simply taking the disks and putting them in some cd envelopes and storing them in a trunk in my closet. They'll last at least a century on those disks, so that will be good enough for me.

After that though, I don't care anymore. I'm tired of this crap and I'm through with Lucas. No nostalgia, no stories, no nothing. I just want my OOT and then I want to forget about Lucas, Lucasfilm, Star Wars and everything to do with it.

And yeah...if a better release comes out eventually, I will get it, but I won't be happy about it. But once I do get that better release, I won't EVER buy another. I mean, seriously...buying umpteen releases of the same 3 to 6 movies is ridiculous. I don't have money falling out of my ass, George. Glad you do....but I don't. So take your ultimate, mega, super special edition release and shove it far up your ass and just give me my friggin' OOT.

Sorry, went off there.....

Just getting tired of the gimmicks....not just with Star Wars though...with all movie and music releases....there's always some special release coming out....whatever happened to one release and that's it?



You could join the campaign to send back the SE discs to Lucas.
Post
#224576
Topic
Lucas talks about the Sept 12th Release of the O-OT
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/224576/action/topic#224576
Time
Originally posted by: Tiptup
They might not outsell, and if I'm going to get them, which I probably will, I'm going to not leave any wiggle room for them to see which version I prefer.

More power too you. It appears that, even after our long hard battle, the fight for the OOT is still far from over, and is a waiting game
yet again.

"But we're not sure how many people want that."


Just ask. This is not the only message board where fans prefer the OOT.

"Now we'll find out whether they really wanted the original or whether they wanted the improved versions," he said. "It'll all come out in the end."


Let's hope he gets the message and fans do not disappoint him.
Post
#224368
Topic
Some ludicrously optimistic thoughts...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/224368/action/topic#224368
Time
Is it even vaguely possible that Lucas, especially given his recent comments in the MTV interview about finding out which version people prefer, is releasing the September release to test the waters to see if there is money in including the OOT in the 30th anniversary boxed set. It would be logical (not that LFL have ever been logical when it comes to the OOT, but...). With Robert A. Harris volunteering, and the mass of complaints about the release (so overwhelming, in fact, that LFL actually answered), is it possible?
Post
#224340
Topic
Are you Going to buy them ?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/224340/action/topic#224340
Time
Originally posted by: Mielr
Originally posted by: auraloffalwaffle

Do we not have, on this site, an email FROM LUCASFILM detailing the non-anamorphic version of the OOT which will be bundled with the 'bonus material'?

Is there not information on this site and others about the sources used to make these DVDs of the OOT?

Are we, then, to ignore this, let the DVDs be released without saying a word (thereby allowing the LucasFilm / Newscorp publicity and promotions juggernaut to make the release a commercial success) and THEN try to gain support for an argument for a more satisfactory release?

Won't it already be too late?

Yes, the time to complain is now, while there's still a chance to affect the outcome.


I don't know if we can affect the September release, but hopefully we can influence future releases of the OOT, if there are any.