Mike O

Of course! I thought they were great movies! I even loved many of the changes when they perfectly upheld the spirit of the books (which was often rare unfortunately).

Good to know. I thought that you thought that they were meritless and pointless.

Book-accurate movies of LOTR would have been a) far more successful; b) amazingly superior. Criticizing a film adaptation because it is different from the books can often make a lot of sense in many situations.

Yeah, a little more sarcasm from Spider-Man would be nice. They tend to overplay the woe-is-me thing.

He wanted to do it because he likes mindless action and because he had the elf actors on hand and wanted to give them more screen time.

I don't ever remember be so exhilarated by an action sequence. And I really, really doubt that that was the reason. I really, really, really, really doubt it. Not saying that I agree with the change. I just don't think that was why.



True, but it is difficult to find that middle ground.

Jackson has a simple mind

Many of Jackson's amendments to the way the tale unfolded were brilliant, and wise filmmaking, and excellent story adaptation. But there were some major klunkers.

Agreed. Separating them can be difficult, though.



Yes, but the pacing of a film is compleyely different from a book. I disagree with the way that many scenes were handled, but I think that the overall idea was simply find a way to pace things.

Oh, and while I'm at it ... changing Faramir's character to a charlatan was up there in the big, big goofs.

Originally posted by: auraloffalwaffle


See, I've always found Mann a bit too stylish. Lacks some substance to my mind. Still, no denying his skill.

Oh, you should! Sunrise is still rated as one of the greatest masterpieces of the cinema EVER!! by many critics and directors. And I forgot all about Eisenstein!! How could I??!!!!! Battleship Potemkin is just superlative. Also try Strike and October.

Originally posted by: Invader Jenny
Yeah, but still. Lucas can't leave anything well enough alone. Even as a joke, he can't follow the rules and has to constently make "better" changes.

And, off the top of my head, here are my favorite aspects of the PJ films (again, in a general order of magnitude):

There are things that you like about Jackson's versions?



I will debate that with you, but I think along the same lines in terms of the Elves at Helm's Deep. I suppose how radical it is depends on what one thinks of the scene. I do think that it goes along with Tolkien's theme of the races uniting against evil, I'm just unsure why Jacksone wanted to do it.

the chapter on Tom Bombadil does nothing to advance the plot

Originally posted by: Jumpman
Mike,

You didn't get snippy. I understand your position and many others like you. I'm just cut from a different cloth because, while I grew up with Star Wars, it didn't hold the significants to me until around '96. I didn't see A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back during their intial release(s). I did see Return of the Jedi in the theatre. I grew up with the Original Trilogy on VHS but I didn't know the ends and outs of the entire process until I got to college and majored in film...

It's just my philosophy on film has been shaped mainly by him and a few others of his generation. And for me, his thought processes on his Original Trilogy just make alot of sense to me. I try to see both sides when it comes to criticism of film.

I just wanted to point out that there's three people in this thread actually engaged in an arguement about the number of people who dislike Jar Jar Binks. Just so we're clear on that point.

LOL!



That was a little rude .

Just talkin 'bout wicket.

Originally posted by: Jumpman
Mike,

Not a problem.

Originally posted by: Jumpman
Mike,

I hope you and the rest of the fanbase really get them one day. I won't be joining you but I hope you do so some can go back to enjoying Star Wars again...no matter what form.

Originally posted by: Jumpman
Mike,

I'm only for high quality transfers of the theatrical versions so the bitchin and the accussing of Lucas as being the antichrist, can stop because it's gotten ridiculous at this point. The guy does what he thinks is right, with his money, and it's the anitchrist of Star Wars and cinema....and yet, without the guy, cinema would still be in the dark ages, if you continue to follow the bean counters and suits that run the industry now...

Originally posted by: Jumpman
Mike,

I hear you but, more than likely, you're not going to get them. And if you do, I'm still sure that there will still be some bitchin' and moanin' from the fanbase in some form or another. Not saying you but I'm sure Lucas will miss something (not purposefully), even if they are in pristine, high quality transfers, and it'll continue on and on.

He can't satisfy the whole damn universe.

Originally posted by: Jumpman
Mike

"For how long? How long until three of the most important films in history deteriorate away into nothing because their creator dislikes them? What about their influence and the people who's lives they touched? The filmmakers they inspired? Sooner or later, the tapes and LD will deteriorate. Then what? Lucas effectively 1984ed his films."

This was what the Limited Editions were for....if you really want to preserve history.....

Again, for how long will these LD master sources release last? There are a short term solution to a long term problem. The Limited Editions should have solved the problem. If they were decent release, we would be having this discussion. But they weren't. You're acting like the limited editions solve the problem when they just patch it. Again, I'm not against Lucas or his vision. I just want a copy of the OOT that I can project onto a screen in perefect quality. That's all. That's it. The end. After that, I don't care. But until then, I think that the criticisms are legitimate.



He was one of them.

What has he done since 1980 that's worth anything?

I hope and pray that we can get a higher quality release of the O-OT, but I really don't think Lucas is worried about which one people will want to watch. I know there are a lot of people who really prefer the O-OT, but I don't think that makes up "most" of the people who want to buy Star Wars on DVD.

Perhaps, but the OOT has enough of an audience to make Lucas money, which is all he care about. And sales of 06 DVDs have proven that there is a market for the originals.



Yes, I think that he is. He knows that many people would watch the OOT and he doesn't want them to becasue then they might prefer it to the SEs. What's always struck me as odd is why he didn't simply market both. Then he'd be able to market six films instead of three and have twice as much money. But he seems to be slowly realizing that. Like I said, I just want a good OOT DVD release. That's it. Other than that, I don't care. I wish the man a long, happy, healthy life.

I understand the difference. That's not my issue. Lucas doesn't want to spend the money remastering and cleaning up on films he deems inferior to his vision. That's as plain as I can get. Would it have been easier to go the E.T. route? Absolutely. I can't argue against that. Everyone would've been happy. But haven't fans realized that Lucas cares about one thing when it comes to Star Wars and that's his vision of it. And if his vision of it is the Special Editions, that's it. I'd rather he give consumers the choice (which he technically did with the Limited Editions but not an acceptible choice]) but I understand his views as a filmmaker and an artist.

Originally posted by: CO



Nobody has a problem with the SE as long as the O-OT gets released with the same respect. I actually like the LOTR theatrical versions, but most of my friends like the EE, so that fanbase is split too, but the release of LOTR Trilogy last month had both versions in the same boxset, cause Peter Jackson doesn't have a complex about which version the fans love.

Originally posted by: Han Solo VS Indiana Jones


I hope there will NOT be a sequel to the lifeless, heartless piece of junk that was Superman Returns.

Originally posted by: auraloffalwaffle
You were just saying that we had to respect his decisions.

Originally posted by: Jumpman
Mike,

High quality. That's the difference. No Star Wars fan of the Original Trilogy should ever say they can't watch their version of the films....

Originally posted by: Jumpman
Mike,

Alot of their "original" work still exists in the special editions. As for Kersh, he knew what he was getting into when he directed Episode V.

And Lucas did produce (executive considering it's his money they're using) and write Episode V. Episode V doesn't work without Lucas'
draft after Leigh Brackett died.

Originally posted by: Jumpman
Mike,

So essentially, you're saying that because so many people contributed to Star Wars, that Lucas, being the creator and owner of it all...the man who envisioned everything, he has to accomodate them before himself? That's what you're really say. Their contributions far outweigh Lucas'....

No, I'm saying that without their contributions, the films would not exist at all, and that saying that their work doesn't exist anymore to accomadate what he wants is insulting. How about this: a DVD release with both. This is what it was, this is what I want it to be. Many, many people prefer the OOT. Lucas knows that if he gives them the choice, they will watch that instead. So he doesn't. To say nothing of the fact that Lucas didn't produce, write, or direct ESB. Or that none of the sequels or prequels would even exist without the money the fans who prefer the OOT have given him over the years.

I want a good OOT release to watch myself. Beyond that, I don't care.

But, I don't think Lucas is going to lose sleep if he loses some fans over his decisions.

Again, Lucas is accomodated himself. Who are we to say what he can change and what he can't change? It's his films.

I'm sure that Marquand, Kurtz, Kersherner, and the thousands of people who worked on the films would love to hear that.



I doubt that that thrill other people who worked on it.

I saw Jedi in '83. Having Hayden at the end didn't insult me. It made sense to me, after having seen the Prequels. And that's what this is really, truly about. It's about Lucas completing it as a Saga with the "inferior" Prequels than letting the Original Trilogy stand on it's own....