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Mike O

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20-Jun-2006
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12-Jul-2025
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Post
#251361
Topic
What do you think of the <strong>Prequel Trilogy</strong>? a general discussion thread
Time
Originally posted by: auraloffalwaffle
Originally posted by: Jumpman
Michael Mann being one of them (Best working director today if you ask me....) I also love the Mann! Heat has been one of my favourite movies since I saw it in the cinema in 1995.

I certainly appreciate what you're saying about visual filmmaking. I have developed a great love for silent movies. I have a growing collection of pre-sound films on DVD. I love Sunrise, Nosferatu and, particularly, Faust by Murnau and never fail to be astonished by Lang's Metropolis. The Cabinet Of Doctor Caligari is still one of the scariest films I've seen. And I saw a brilliant British silent called Hindle Wakes on telly not so long back which was absolutely spellbinding. I bought DVDs of three silent Hitchcock films, including The Lodger, but they were real budget affairs with awful soundtracks - absolutely ruins the experience! Do you watch any silents yourself?


See, I've always found Mann a bit too stylish. Lacks some substance to my mind. Still, no denying his skill.

Oh, you should! Sunrise is still rated as one of the greatest masterpieces of the cinema EVER!! by many critics and directors. And I forgot all about Eisenstein!! How could I??!!!!! Battleship Potemkin is just superlative. Also try Strike and October.



Ah, the clyncher? Just what is style over substance? Good questions, and I don't have an answer.
Post
#251151
Topic
The Lord of the Rings (Films vs. the Books)
Time
And, off the top of my head, here are my favorite aspects of the PJ films (again, in a general order of magnitude):

There are things that you like about Jackson's versions?

The lack of Bombadil awesomeness.

Him I can live without, and in any case it was pretty much a foregone conclusion that he'd have to go for time. He scares me more than anything in Mordor .

Elijah Wood being gay.

Wood is gay?

Elijah Wood squirming and yelping with his face filling the screen.


Having your soul destroyed will do that.

Mythology Changes that didn't live up to the spirit of what Tolkien envisioned (like Elves at Helms Deep).


I will debate that with you, but I think along the same lines in terms of the Elves at Helm's Deep. I suppose how radical it is depends on what one thinks of the scene. I do think that it goes along with Tolkien's theme of the races uniting against evil, I'm just unsure why Jacksone wanted to do it.

the chapter on Tom Bombadil does nothing to advance the plot


Um, he saves their lives.
Post
#251106
Topic
What do you think of the <strong>Prequel Trilogy</strong>? a general discussion thread
Time
Originally posted by: Jumpman
Mike,

You didn't get snippy. I understand your position and many others like you. I'm just cut from a different cloth because, while I grew up with Star Wars, it didn't hold the significants to me until around '96. I didn't see A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back during their intial release(s). I did see Return of the Jedi in the theatre. I grew up with the Original Trilogy on VHS but I didn't know the ends and outs of the entire process until I got to college and majored in film...

It's just my philosophy on film has been shaped mainly by him and a few others of his generation. And for me, his thought processes on his Original Trilogy just make alot of sense to me. I try to see both sides when it comes to criticism of film.


Yeah, I kind of did. And shouldn't have. You're entitled to prefer the SEs. Just understand the not everyone does, and that Lucas is denying a high-quality release of it to those of us who don't. As I said, you have made many good points and I respect your beliefs. I just want a high-quality OOT DVD release. If you're with us in the campaign, then you're more than welcome.
Post
#251103
Topic
Lucas on Colbert
Time
I just wanted to point out that there's three people in this thread actually engaged in an arguement about the number of people who dislike Jar Jar Binks. Just so we're clear on that point.

LOL!

Just shut the fuck up Go-Mer.


That was a little rude .

Just talkin 'bout wicket.


The Ewoks I'll admit to liking. There I'll back you up. With Jar-Jar, you're on your own.
Post
#251033
Topic
What do you think of the <strong>Prequel Trilogy</strong>? a general discussion thread
Time
Originally posted by: Jumpman
Mike,

Not a problem.


Thanks. I apologize if I jumped on you. Is just that that's how much the OOT means to me, and that why I want to save it so badly and why I get so passionate about it. Still, I guess that at this point, I just have to wait and hope that I get my DVDs sooner rather than later. But I apologize for geting snippy about it.
Post
#251028
Topic
What do you think of the <strong>Prequel Trilogy</strong>? a general discussion thread
Time
Originally posted by: Jumpman
Mike,

I hope you and the rest of the fanbase really get them one day. I won't be joining you but I hope you do so some can go back to enjoying Star Wars again...no matter what form.


Fair enough. Then I guess that we will have agree to disagree. As long as I get the high-quality OOT, it doesn't matter. Until I do, the battle for it will continue. The end. I guess we're pretty much done. Thanks for your input. You've made good points.
Post
#251024
Topic
What do you think of the <strong>Prequel Trilogy</strong>? a general discussion thread
Time
Originally posted by: Jumpman
Mike,

I'm only for high quality transfers of the theatrical versions so the bitchin and the accussing of Lucas as being the antichrist, can stop because it's gotten ridiculous at this point. The guy does what he thinks is right, with his money, and it's the anitchrist of Star Wars and cinema....and yet, without the guy, cinema would still be in the dark ages, if you continue to follow the bean counters and suits that run the industry now...


Cinema would have progresed without Lucas, but I completely agree that his importance to the art for as a whole is impossible to measure. I just want the OOT in high quality. That's it. That puts us at an impass where we can agree to disagree about the man. As long as you want the release and are with us in our battle for them, then nothing else matters.
Post
#251019
Topic
What do you think of the <strong>Prequel Trilogy</strong>? a general discussion thread
Time
Originally posted by: Jumpman
Mike,

I hear you but, more than likely, you're not going to get them. And if you do, I'm still sure that there will still be some bitchin' and moanin' from the fanbase in some form or another. Not saying you but I'm sure Lucas will miss something (not purposefully), even if they are in pristine, high quality transfers, and it'll continue on and on.

He can't satisfy the whole damn universe.


We'll get them, because Lucas will want the money. Or maybe it will be after Lucas passes away. There is a fine line between satifying absolutely everybody and meeting industry standards. He's the one who made so many versions, so its his fault.

He can satify the majority of people with a release of both versions in high quality. And he will. It's just a question of when. As long as you are with us in the desire for proper OOT DVDs, nothing else matters.
Post
#251013
Topic
What do you think of the <strong>Prequel Trilogy</strong>? a general discussion thread
Time
Originally posted by: Jumpman
Mike

"For how long? How long until three of the most important films in history deteriorate away into nothing because their creator dislikes them? What about their influence and the people who's lives they touched? The filmmakers they inspired? Sooner or later, the tapes and LD will deteriorate. Then what? Lucas effectively 1984ed his films."

This was what the Limited Editions were for....if you really want to preserve history.....

Again, for how long will these LD master sources release last? There are a short term solution to a long term problem. The Limited Editions should have solved the problem. If they were decent release, we would be having this discussion. But they weren't. You're acting like the limited editions solve the problem when they just patch it. Again, I'm not against Lucas or his vision. I just want a copy of the OOT that I can project onto a screen in perefect quality. That's all. That's it. The end. After that, I don't care. But until then, I think that the criticisms are legitimate.

To make people think he was the real creative force behind Star Wars?


He was one of them.

What has he done since 1980 that's worth anything?


Produced SW and ESB? That counts as something. Does that mean that his opinions are more imporant than GL's? No. But it means that he deserves some say.

As long as we can agree that it is imortant to fight for a proper OOT DVD and HD release, then this bickering is pointless .
Post
#251007
Topic
What do you think of the <strong>Prequel Trilogy</strong>? a general discussion thread
Time
I hope and pray that we can get a higher quality release of the O-OT, but I really don't think Lucas is worried about which one people will want to watch. I know there are a lot of people who really prefer the O-OT, but I don't think that makes up "most" of the people who want to buy Star Wars on DVD.

Perhaps, but the OOT has enough of an audience to make Lucas money, which is all he care about. And sales of 06 DVDs have proven that there is a market for the originals.

I for one prefer the SE, and I have talked to a lot of people who are younger, who didn't grow up with the originals, who also prefer the newer versions.

Ah, but where does that leave the historica signicance of Star Wars? How long will the younger generation be interested in Star Wars? Will they give it the same level of devotion long after we have gone? None of us will ge around long enough to know.

Updated effects can't change the fact that the story, plot, and characters remain the same. The outcome at the end of it all is the same. The feel is the same.

To you. Others may not feel the same.

Again, Lucas is accomodated himself. Who are we to say what he can change and what he can't change? It's his films. If he feels the need to change them to satisfy his creative mind, why can't he do that? He owns everything Star Wars.

Well, as we've all been saying, they're more his financially than artistically, but your are correct to a certain extent and I agree. Lucas has the right to do whatever he wants to the films. I just want a high quality OOT DVD release and HD and whatever else comes along.

You can piss and moan about it until the cows come home but you have to at least respect his decision and see it from his point of view. If you do, and you still disagree obviously you do, then so be it.

I disagree. So what? I couldn't stop the release of the SEs if I wanted to. That doesn't mean that I don't have the right to want the OOT in a version that meets industry standards. Surely, we can agree on that.

You probably have a few copies on VHS or Laserdisc, I'm guessing. If you do, continue to love the theatrical versions in that format. Nothing is stopping you.

For how long? How long until three of the most important films in history deteriorate away into nothing because their creator dislikes them? What about their influence and the people who's lives they touched? The filmmakers they inspired? Sooner or later, the tapes and LD will deteriorate. Then what? Lucas effectively 1984ed his films.

As for him stopping, I personally believe that the changes that are coming in the upcoming Saga Boxset will be so small that they won't even be worth arguing over. See, you feel that the changes destroyed the credibility of Star Wars...what they were at their core foundation. I feel that the core foundation is still intact, whether it theatrical version or special edition. The core foundation hasn't changed in 30 years....

In that case, why does anyone care? How about Han shooting first? The fact of the matter is that these changes alter what the films represent to some people. Does Lucas care? No. Should he? Perhaps not. He has his preferences, we have ours. If we had the OOT in high quality, we could just agree to disagree. But that doesn't mean that the originals just don't exist anymore.

As for Kersh, he knew what he was getting into when he directed Episode V.

And Marquand? He's tragically no longer around to ask, so we'll never know. And it called The Empire Striked Back. Just because something is legal does not make it right. Not to say that Lucas is doing something contrary to the laws of nature or is evil or somesuch, because he isn't and he's not. But that doesn't change the fact that he is altering someone else's work to suit his own needs and denying its existance. I very, very, very much dout either one knew what he would do their work. Gary Kurtz dislikes the changes too. I his opinion and less valid than Lucas's?

That said, I can see why others would prefer to have kept Shaw.


If we had a proper choice, the point would be moot.

And you know Jumpman, he will never stop, so why should I have to keep dealling with his changing vision?


Interesting point. His "vision: changes at least once a year.

Who are we to say what he can change and what he can't change?


We aren't.

If he feels the need to change them to satisfy his creative mind, why can't he do that?


He can. I could care less what he does. I just want a good OOT release, that's all.

And Lucas did produce (executive considering it's his money they're using) and write Episode V. Episode V doesn't work without Lucas' draft after Leigh Brackett died.


True, but that doesn't make it "his" film. It doesn't make it thiers either. It could not have existed without all of them together. To say that it or any film belongs to one person is to insult the others who worked on it.

"While Shaw was the face he had when he came back to the light, he still visually represents (to me) the twisted wreck he had become as Vader."

Bingo!


OK, so its our opinion. We'll go watch the high-quality release of the OOT and Lucas gave watch his high-quality release of SE and everybody's happy. Here, I'll link you to the high-quality release of the OOT...No, wait. I can't. So the point is still valid.

You don't think he saw it as an opportunity to further help his career out if he was a hired hand in the biggest sequel of all time at the point?


Yes, I think that that is why he took the project, but I doubt that he thought that Lucas would change something that he had put nearly a year of his life into 20 years later and say that Kersh's work didn't exist.

Again, I ask, why does my dislike of the SEs mean that I am denying Lucas his vision. Even if I wanted to, how would I stop him from releasing the SEs? He can do whatever he wants to the films. I don't care. I really don't. I just want the OOT in a high-quality release. That's it. That's all. That's not asking that much. And eventually, I will get it an all of this will be rendered moot.

I hope and pray that we can get a higher quality release of the O-OT, but I really don't think Lucas is worried about which one people will want to watch.


Yes, I think that he is. He knows that many people would watch the OOT and he doesn't want them to becasue then they might prefer it to the SEs. What's always struck me as odd is why he didn't simply market both. Then he'd be able to market six films instead of three and have twice as much money. But he seems to be slowly realizing that. Like I said, I just want a good OOT DVD release. That's it. Other than that, I don't care. I wish the man a long, happy, healthy life.

I understand the difference. That's not my issue. Lucas doesn't want to spend the money remastering and cleaning up on films he deems inferior to his vision. That's as plain as I can get. Would it have been easier to go the E.T. route? Absolutely. I can't argue against that. Everyone would've been happy. But haven't fans realized that Lucas cares about one thing when it comes to Star Wars and that's his vision of it. And if his vision of it is the Special Editions, that's it. I'd rather he give consumers the choice (which he technically did with the Limited Editions but not an acceptible choice]) but I understand his views as a filmmaker and an artist.


I do too. That's the whole point of what I have been saying for countless posts. I just want a high-quality OOT DVD release. Other than that, it doesn't matter. Surely you must agree with that. Lucas acts like we are denying him his vision by wanting the OOT when we couldn't deny it if we wanted to. We're not. He can have his vision. We don't care. We just want the OOT in a decent release. Then everybody is happy, including Lucas becasue he has billions of dollars in further cash. I understand it. But that doesn't mean that I have to like it or accept it. A high quality OOT DVD release would let us meet in the middle.
Post
#250968
Topic
What do you think of the <strong>Prequel Trilogy</strong>? a general discussion thread
Time
Originally posted by: CO
Originally posted by: Jumpman
CO,

Again, Lucas is accomodated himself. Who are we to say what he can change and what he can't change? It's his films. If he feels the need to change them to satisfy his creative mind, why can't he do that? He owns everything Star Wars.

You're right though. If the special editions never existed, we wouldn't have this. But for me, no matter what form, the Original Trilogy is the Original Trilogy. Updated effects can't change the fact that the story, plot, and characters remain the same. The outcome at the end of it all is the same. The feel is the same.



Nobody has a problem with the SE as long as the O-OT gets released with the same respect. I actually like the LOTR theatrical versions, but most of my friends like the EE, so that fanbase is split too, but the release of LOTR Trilogy last month had both versions in the same boxset, cause Peter Jackson doesn't have a complex about which version the fans love.


Exactly. I don't like the SEs, but whatever Lucas does with them is his decision. I just want a high quality OOT DVD and HD release, that's all.
Post
#250967
Topic
SUPERMAN RETURNS REVIEW
Time
Originally posted by: Han Solo VS Indiana Jones
Originally posted by: Mike O
Originally posted by: Han Solo VS Indiana Jones
Originally posted by: Mike O
So evidently, there will be no SR sequel?


I hope not.


You hope that there will be or won't be?


I hope there will NOT be a sequel to the lifeless, heartless piece of junk that was Superman Returns.


Didn't like it, huh? May I ask why?
Post
#250955
Topic
What do you think of the <strong>Prequel Trilogy</strong>? a general discussion thread
Time
Originally posted by: auraloffalwaffle
Originally posted by: Jumpman
High quality. That's the difference. No Star Wars fan of the Original Trilogy should ever say they can't watch their version of the films....
You were just saying that we had to respect his decisions.


I do. I just want a high quality OOT to watch on DVD, Blu-Ray, HD-DVD, and whatever other formats come along. I just want the choice. That's all. I don't agree with his decisions, but I respect them.

You and I can easily agree to disagree. I just want a good OOT DVD release. That's all. That's it. Fair enough?
Post
#250951
Topic
What do you think of the <strong>Prequel Trilogy</strong>? a general discussion thread
Time
Originally posted by: Jumpman
Mike,

High quality. That's the difference. No Star Wars fan of the Original Trilogy should ever say they can't watch their version of the films....


I can only watch my version of the films in a substandard transfer, that's the difference. When I get a high-quality release of the originals, then I'll watch them, Lucas will watch the SEs, and everybody will be happy. The problem is that Lucas doesn't want that to happen. I respect him. I just want him to respect me.
Post
#250948
Topic
What do you think of the <strong>Prequel Trilogy</strong>? a general discussion thread
Time
Originally posted by: Jumpman
Mike,

Alot of their "original" work still exists in the special editions. As for Kersh, he knew what he was getting into when he directed Episode V.

And Lucas did produce (executive considering it's his money they're using) and write Episode V. Episode V doesn't work without Lucas'
draft after Leigh Brackett died.


A lot of it doesn't too. I just want my own release to watch, that's all. Why is that when fans want to see the original, we are denying Lucas his vision? He can have it. I just want the originals to watch, that's all. In high quality.

It seems that we must agree to disagree.
Post
#250946
Topic
What do you think of the <strong>Prequel Trilogy</strong>? a general discussion thread
Time

Originally posted by: Jumpman
Mike,

So essentially, you're saying that because so many people contributed to Star Wars, that Lucas, being the creator and owner of it all...the man who envisioned everything, he has to accomodate them before himself? That's what you're really say. Their contributions far outweigh Lucas'....

No, I'm saying that without their contributions, the films would not exist at all, and that saying that their work doesn't exist anymore to accomadate what he wants is insulting. How about this: a DVD release with both. This is what it was, this is what I want it to be. Many, many people prefer the OOT. Lucas knows that if he gives them the choice, they will watch that instead. So he doesn't. To say nothing of the fact that Lucas didn't produce, write, or direct ESB. Or that none of the sequels or prequels would even exist without the money the fans who prefer the OOT have given him over the years.

I want a good OOT release to watch myself. Beyond that, I don't care.

But, I don't think Lucas is going to lose sleep if he loses some fans over his decisions.


Many, many fans. He doesn't care about anyone or anyhting except making the films fit what he wants them to be. Which is fine, except I don't have the choice to watch them the way that I want.
Post
#250944
Topic
What do you think of the <strong>Prequel Trilogy</strong>? a general discussion thread
Time
Again, Lucas is accomodated himself. Who are we to say what he can change and what he can't change? It's his films.

I'm sure that Marquand, Kurtz, Kersherner, and the thousands of people who worked on the films would love to hear that.

He owns everything Star Wars.


I doubt that that thrill other people who worked on it.

I saw Jedi in '83. Having Hayden at the end didn't insult me. It made sense to me, after having seen the Prequels. And that's what this is really, truly about. It's about Lucas completing it as a Saga with the "inferior" Prequels than letting the Original Trilogy stand on it's own....


OK. I want a good OOT DVD release to watch for myself. That's all. Lucas can do whatever he wants to "his" films.
Post
#250936
Topic
What do you think of the <strong>Prequel Trilogy</strong>? a general discussion thread
Time
And personally, the market for the theatrical versions is a niche market anyway.

Recent sales seem to indicate otherwise.

Still, his movies, his way, and will always be his way when he's no longer with us, will be Original Trilogy in its Special Edition form, in the future and forever. There's no way of getting around that any longer.

True, but the two are view very separately.

PEOPLE PREFER IT, there just isn't millions of idiots like me who post on a SW board everyday, and that is the difference.

Not everyone, perhaps, but a substantial enough number to make Lucas see a considerable market.

Every friend I know bought this release in Sept, and they also bought the 2004 release too thinking that was the only version that was ever going to be released, but now they prefer to watch inferior quality of the O-OT over superior quality of the SE, so that may tell you about that niche audience may be bigger then you think.


Big enough to make Lucas money at any rate, which is the crux of the issue.

Let me ask you a question. If Lucas never came out with the Limited Editions and remained firm in his decision never to release the theatrical versions, could you live with the Special Editions as the only version of the Original Trilogy on DVD and future formats?


I couldn't. Until I see a proper OOT DVD release, I'm done with SW and LFL. There are other products more deserving of my money if I can't get what I wanted. The question you are asking is whether or not, 100 years, people would still care about SW if the SEs only existed. I don't think so, but none of us will be aroung long enough to tell.

That said, some of the things they did in the 2004 DVD are not quite as good to me, such as the lack of musical fanfare when Luke goes into the trench on the Death Star


Yes, well, that was a foul up that Lucasfilm just don't want to admit to. I seriously doubt that that was a change that he intended.
Post
#250934
Topic
The Spider-Man 3 thread
Time
Originally posted by: Han Solo VS Indiana Jones
Originally posted by: Darth_Evil
Elfman's a great composer. Too bad he can't return. And John Dykstra left to work on the Hot Wheels movie. Look it up on IMDb. It's half funny, half sad that he left this to do "Hot Wheels."

He left Spider-Man 3 for a movie about Hot Wheels? That's really disheartening.

I'd imagine he was offered more money. Stockdyke is a talented fellow, so maybe he can rectify some the rather obvious mistakes that the previous installments made.

Elfman left because he felt Raimi was too attached to the temp track on Spider-Man 2. Nothing more.

I see that the stories we have heard vastly differ . That's Hollywood for you. Well, who knows? Maybe Young and Stockdyke will make things even better on this release.

P.S. How did Young bet both Charlotte's Web and Hellraiser I and II on his resume? Talk about wildly different styles!

Bringing in Venom and Sandman just seems desperate, and hiring Topher "That 70s Show" Grace as Venom does not sit well with me.


Sandman, yes. Venom, however, come attached to the alien costume, which everyone is of course a key plot point in this installment.

Doesn't the film have a 300 million dollar budget?


I am a college student who works as a cashier. I can't imagine that amount of money existing.

In 3, it looks like there will still be a shitload of romance drama taking over the action, which really, really sucks.


As long as the romance and drama is good, that won't be a problem. Now, if the romance and drama suck, then there will be av very, very big problem.

Also, Raimi went back for reshoots when test audeinces said the film was lacking in the action department. Uh oh....that's not a good sign.


Indeed it is not.
Post
#250932
Topic
Addresses and contacts for various media outlets go in here
Time
Originally posted by: darkhelmet
Originally posted by: Mielr
Originally posted by: Mike O
Given that about 75,000 people signed the petition, perhaps Jay could enlist their support and we could all agree on a specific day to send e-mails. Given the influx of new members, if these addresses all receve 75,000+ e-mails on the same topic on same day, it'd be hard for them to ignore. Just a suggestion.

That's a fantastic idea- Jay has the email addresses for everyone who signed the petition, maybe he could send out an email to everyone on the list and ask them to help out.


This seems like a logical step! Can this be done? I don't want our side of this stupid situation to come out sounding like we're just a bunch of whiners when other lesser movies get the honor of anamorphic transfers from high quality sources. I mean, for heaven's sake! Star Wars is on the Academy's "100 Most Important Films" list, isn't it?


Can someone ask Jay?
Post
#250782
Topic
The Spider-Man 3 thread
Time
Originally posted by: Han Solo VS Indiana Jones
Originally posted by: Mike O
Originally posted by: Han Solo VS Indiana Jones
Originally posted by: Mike O
Let us not forget his battle with Elfman.


He's fighting with Elfman? When did this start?


I don't know, on the set apparently. They got into a huge shouting match and had to be pulled apart, and now Christopher Young is doing the music. John Dykstra also left and left VFX to his protege Scott Stockdyke (who worked on the previous two films), although I imagine he just wanted to work on another project for SPI.


That sucks.


Indeed. I'm quite fond of Elfman.