Mike O

ZigZig said:

The T-shirt appeared at leat 13 years ago in “A Cinderella Story” (2004) : http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_FOj0dDyraGg/TCb3iFLbuNI/AAAAAAAAAaI/4ye22RgNiZc/s1600/ACinderellaStory_VaderFramed.jpg

I don’t know the genesis of this gag, but it is pretty old.

Edit: Google shows that some guy used this gag as signature in a forum in 2002: https://forum.dvdtalk.com/2938981-post32.html

So this gag is at least 15 years old…

Huh. I used to frequent that forum.

His writing has actually not been too bad. It’s weird, it’s like he wanted to write a straight-up Star Trek series, Fox asked for a standard McFarlane show with dick and weed jokes, and he put them into his first script and Fox approved it. It’s bizarre.

ElectricTriangle said:

Mike O said:
I’ve always kind of wondered what the rationale of hiring him was, especially given that Frakes was chosen instead of some bigger-name directors, apparently on the last two.

I think he was brought in because Berman wanted to “liven things up” with an action director, and Baird was who he came up with.
I imagine this was probably in response to Insurrection, which feels cheaper and more like TV than the the first two films.
Does anyone know why that is? I know they didn’t go with ILM, so that’s why the effects work isn’t great, but Insurrection has the same director, cinematographer and a larger budget than First Contact but looks worse.

Baird still seems like an odd choice, even given the action filmmakers at the time, a guy like John McTiernan probably would’ve been a better bet, though perhaps Baird simply came cheapest? As regards Insurrection, I have always kind of wondered that too. I don’t think it’s as terrible as many people say, but it’s essentially an extended episodes, and doesn’t look nearly as good as the cheaper First Contact, as you point out.

As far as the FX work, instead of ILM, didn’t they go with Digital Domain? Or was that on Nemesis? Because if they’re not exactly in the same league as ILM, they’re still a pretty top-tier company, aren’t they?

DuracellEnergizer said:

ElectricTriangle said:

Mike O said:
I’ve always kind of wondered what the rationale of hiring him was, especially given that Frakes was chosen instead of some bigger-name directors, apparently on the last two.

I think he was brought in because Berman wanted to “liven things up” with an action director, and Baird was who he came up with.
I imagine this was probably in response to Insurrection, which feels cheaper and more like TV than the the first two films.
Does anyone know why that is? I know they didn’t go with ILM, so that’s why the effects work isn’t great, but Insurrection has the same director, cinematographer and a larger budget than First Contact but looks worse.

Going the “human aliens” route probably didn’t help.

I don’t know, are they more complex than the Borg? The Borg looked like a makeup FX nightmare.

suspiciouscoffee said:

SilverWook said:

Mike O said:

SilverWook said:

Meyer and producer Harve Bennett sat down and watched the entire series though. That’s how they got the idea to revisit Khan.

Bennett did, did Meyer? I didn’t know that.

Maybe I’m not remembering it correctly, but Meyer made two well regarded Trek films and contributed to the screenplay of IV, so I think he versed himself in it more than Baird ever did.

I seem to remember Meyer mentioning watching the series in the II director’s cut commentary track, but I could be wrong.

You could certainly be right, it’s been a while since I watched it that way.

ElectricTriangle said:

DuracellEnergizer said:
Going the “human aliens” route probably didn’t help.

I’m not even talking about costuming, (although some of that is weird), but like:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdNbVxMNFvk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vm8sOhr-0lA
Ignoring the ship effects, these are both scenes of people bouncing around in ships. First Contact’s is shot, lit, and blocked much more dynamically. Insurrection has some nice stuff in it, but on the whole it has a much more conservative production design.
Even this scene, from the climax, lacks the gravitas of the First Contact stuff.
I don’t know anything about Hollywood budgets, did the ensemble cast’s salaries just eat into the budget more? (I assume they increase per film).

Particularly odd given that Frakes was actually LESS experienced as a feature-film director when he made First Contact.

SilverWook said:

I imagine the extensive location shoot added a bit more to the budget.

That’s an interesting point.

The Stand by Stephen King. Wow, this is long.

Can the mods just combine them?

moviefreakedmind said:

My point was that he seemed more hung up on the fact that a remix was included instead of the original mono when almost all older films today are not screened with their original mono tracks and almost nobody (including on this forum) notices or cares. It looked like selective purist stuff which tends to irritate me.

I don’t know if that’s true; aren’t there a number of fan audio preservations?

SilverWook said:

Meyer and producer Harve Bennett sat down and watched the entire series though. That’s how they got the idea to revisit Khan.

Bennett did, did Meyer? I didn’t know that.

Nemesis director Stuart Baird didn’t know Trek either, and allegedly thought Geordi was an alien. Levar was supposed to have been upset about that.

JEDIT: Baird’s lack of Trek experience was worse than I thought, if this article is on the level.
http://www.denofgeek.com/us/movies/star-trek/248258/star-trek-nemesis-what-went-wrong

Nemesis is pretty maligned by the fanbase, and Baird, right or wrong, takes a hell of the light of the blame. I’ve always kind of wondered what the rationale of hiring him was, especially given that Frakes was apparently chosen instead of some bigger-name directors, on the last two.

I wonder if Levar Burton will direct? I think he’s the only who’s directed episodes of all the spin-off series (excepting TAS). As for the fan-non-fan argument, well, Nicholas Meyer didn’t know the franchise before he came on and he made the two best films by a wide margin. So that’s not a huge issue, IMO. That said, Discovery definitely doesn’t feel like the swashbuckling original series or any of the “socialist utopia” of TNG. It doesn’t feel Trek-ish at all. I’m definitely reserving judgement until I see the whole arc played out though. TNG took almost two seasons before it really found its feet. I really want to like it. But in spite of the names attached-Meyer, Roddenberry Jr, Fuller-so far I haven’t been very impressed at all. I’m hoping that changes, I really am.

m_s0 said:

SilverWook said:

Perhaps we should make an Orville thread before the kvetching really starts?

I was referring to episode 3 of Discovery. Raw reaction, sorry if it wasn’t clear.

The Orville is flawed, but it has heart. Discovery is just… desperately, pointlessly contrarian, I guess? Also terribly written. And to think I thought the first two episodes were bad…

Yeah, episode 3 of Discovery, directed by Akiva Batman & Robin Goldsman, was not good. This dour, dark military sci-fi is like Battlestar Galactica, not Star Trek.

DuracellEnergizer said:

My desire to watch Discovery is now about the same as my desire to watch Voyager and Enterprise – nil.

Both series did have some good episodes and good material. Hopefully when it’s all said and done, we can say the same for Discovery. Hopefully.

The Orville, though full of annoying McFarlane dick jokes, has so far been surprisingly good. It’s warmer and feels more like actual classic Trek, weirdly. Even the cast is more likeable than I’d have ever thought, especially after the weak pilot.

The Orville actually has a whole bunch of Trek alums working on it, including Brannon Braga, cinematographer Marvin Rush, and directors Frakes, Robert McNeil and James Conway. If you’re willing to suffer through McFarlane’s penchant for stupid dick and weed jokes, the show itself is a surprisingly serious Trek-riff in places. It’s acrually been dealing with stuff like LBGT gender identity and theocracy. It’s not really the Galaxy Quest comedy that the marketing is selling it as.

What’s the genesis of this gag? Is it from some EU story or just something that someone thought would be funny on a T-Shirt?

oojason said:

imperialscum said:

Anyway, “apologists” is intrinsically incorrect term to describe the particular group of people. They do no apologise for the fact that TFA is shit. They just deny it. To be able to apologise for something, one must first admit it.

If you are here to bait or antangonise fellow forum members for having an a different opinion of a movie than yourself - an opinion on which you repeatedly try to declare as some sort of fact - then I suggest you, and anyone of the same mindset, stop.

Having a differing opinion, explaining why, talking about it, and exchanging views is great and to be encouraged - what you seem to repeatedly be doing here is far-removed from this.

You’re much better than that - please start posting like it.

 

We should all get back on the topic of this thread.

I would love nothing better, but sadly, it seems any hope for any news on the subject seems futile

SilverWook said:

TNG premiered on US television stations 30 years ago tonight.
https://youtu.be/hOZFUu4XxrA

Wish we could get just one more movie with TNG crew. A follow up to All Good Things would be sweet.

The TNG crew totally deserved at least one more movie, I don’t think that Nemesis was intended to be the end, was it? Didn’t it just tank commercially?

TV’s Frink said:

Mike O said:

I’m trying to collect all of Bob Dylan.

Which body parts are you missing at this point?

His toenails go for a lot on eBay.

Fang Zei said:
We’ve got three years to continue making noise. Lucasfilm isn’t gonna say a word on the subject until then. Reed’s tweet is certainly a nice start, although it’d be even better if someone working for Lucasfilm itself would speak up.

You’re right; we’re going to have to wait out 2020 at the absolute earliest. I think that’s just just kind of the brutal fact of it.

Johnson slammed the SE in 2011, years before he was hired, but Abrams did at least let it slip in a 2015 interview that he’d shown his kids “the original versions” specifically. I’d certainly love to know what Edwards and Ron Howard’s thoughts on the subject are.

It’s just damn frustrating when The Force Awakens is a veritable remake of a movie that we can’t officially watch on its original format.

I’m trying to collect all of Bob Dylan. Still waiting on that Complete Album Collection: Volume 2.

I’m glad your dad is OK, Ender. It’s certainly concerning, but I do send all of my well-wishes, and hope for the best for both you and him.

TV’s Frink said:

Mike O said:

dahmage said:

In all fairness, the only Trek she enjoys is/are the new movies.

IV seems to be the one with the most mainstream, non-Trek fan appeal

I’d consider myself a casual more mainstream Trek fan and I really dislike IV.

Really? That’s interesting. My aunt usually can’t stand any Trek, and she really enjoy IV. Wasn’t it the highest-grossing one prior to

prior to Abrams Star Wars in drag reboot

What.

What is the general opinion of the Kelvin-verse Trek around here? I know a few longtime Trekkies who really aren’t big on it. I personally like it OK, but think there’s very little of the intellectual moral problems and mind-bending sci-fi plots that marked Trek at its best, but it’s a fun laser light show.

doubleofive said:

TV’s Frink said:

prior to Abrams Star Wars in drag reboot

What.

I thought I’d heard every disparaging remark in the last 9 years, but this is a new one on me. I mean, I get what the insult is supposed to be, what with it being a movie about a guy who rejects the call, then follows the call and saves the day.

I don’t know it was necessarily supposed to be a disparaging remark; I don’t hate Abrams Trek as much as some fans do, and I think there’re a lot of things to recommend (mostly related to the cast), but I do think it lost almost all of the intelligence in Abrams’ hands.

GlastoEls said:

Nothing new in it really, but a new Gizmodo article:

http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2017/09/why-hasnt-disney-released-the-original-unaltered-star-wars-films/

I kind of wish a lot of noise was made about this, especially with Reed’s recent Tweet. I don’t think it’d change Disney’s mind of anything, but it’d nice if the cause got a little more exposure.

dahmage said:

In all fairness, the only Trek she enjoys is/are the new movies.

IV seems to be the one with the most mainstream, non-Trek fan appeal, prior to Abrams Star Wars in drag reboot, though I enjoyed Beyond quite a bit more than the first two. The big in Discovery looked like the same bridge set from Into Darkness.

suspiciouscoffee said:

Mike O said:

I’ve been reading Geoff Johns New 52 Justice League. Sigh. I had such high hopes.

Skip anything and everything from the New 52 and go into Rebirth. Actually, the JL book still sucks, but I’m enjoying Superman (editorial costume mandates aside), and I’ve heard great things about other books. Or go backwards and read older stuff, but seriously, I highly recommend avoiding most, if not all, of the New 52.

I’ve heard good things about The Flash, Action Comics, Scott Snyder’s Batman run, Wonder Woman, Batwoman, Swamp Thing, Nightwing, Resurrection Man, All-Star Western, O.M.A.C., and the darling of the whole thing, Animal Man. Johns started another Justice League books shortly thereafter, and apparently the Justice League International book was actually kind of fun.

one69chev said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

If I’d known Mignola didn’t do the interior artwork, I probably would’ve skipped this. As is, it’s just an unremarkable Lovecraft pastiche with ugly artwork.

5/10

Have you read Gotham by Gaslight? It’s a classic Mignola Batman one shot…

Yeah, gorgeous artwork too. They’re doing it as the next in the DCU animated movies line.

I thought it was suppose to be one of those Trek situations where, at least in theory, the idea was that both characters were supposed to have a somewhat valid moral point and there weren’t easy answers.

Possessed said:

New information? And where have you been hearing about him? Lol

I’d hear him referenced from time to time, but never heard this particular disturbing tidbit.

I’ve been reading Geoff Johns New 52 Justice League. Sigh. I had such high hopes.

I heard a lot of references to AWK. I always kind of wondered who he was. I knew he was a fan of the prequels and the SEs (which he’s obviously entitled to), but this new information is not something I was familiar with, and is frankly disturbing.