Mavimao

TServo2049 said:

I don't remember there being distinct matte lines like these in the SE recomposite of this shot...

Harmy said:

Sorry, guys, I'm pissed off about something unrelated, so I flipped out a bit :-)

And sorry, Omen, I missed your idea about slowing the whole shot down but I believe that I tried that previously and it threw it out of sync with the audio. I'll see if I can come up with something else. Maybe I'll add some smoke to hide the GOUT part of the added frames ;-)

mverta said:

You_Too I wasn't actually leveling my post at you as directly as it seemed :)  There's just been this general idea floating around and gaining legitimacy, and it needs to be stopped, that's all.  There are Tech prints out there, and they're just amazing, beautiful sources for restoration when treated properly.  Bottom line, even at their absolute worst, they're better than what we have now.

 

_Mike

[quote=Tighe]

Great article!  I love reading old newspaper articles like this!  What I wish would catch on is 60 FPS film like Showscan.  I remember watching the Revenge of the Sith and in some of the panning battlescenes the 24 frames per second really showed and looked very jerky, and I thought with all this technology Lucas is doing 24 frames per second.

<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Showscan</a>" title="en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Showscan">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Showscan</a>" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Showscan">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Showscan</a>

I was surprised that when I put the DVD for Surf's Up in my computer I found that is was 60 frames per second!  It really shows.   The Blue Ray is even more impressive!  

I noticed in that clip that the rebel soldiers outfits change colors from time to time.

At 2:44 it looks like there is too much magenta in the image.

Then with the troops passing by when 3PO says, "They've shut down the main reactor, we'll be destroyed for sure!", they look normal again.

At 2:51, again they look too magenta

Now compare 3:08 and 3:09 - the part when the ship is being pulled in and the soldiers are looking around... Their outfits keep changing color!

PS: What source is the image at the top left of the clip?

msycamore said:

Skimmed through the Empire '97 SE LD yesterday which I hadn't seen in a very long time to see if any DVNR was present and unfortunately I can confirm that it was, clearly noticed it on the scenes on Dagobah and Cloud City, the exact same nasty artifact seen on Vader's blade in the GOUT (see here: <a href="http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Whats-missing-from-GOUT/post/463309/#TopicPost463309</a>)" title="originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Whats-missing-from-GOUT/post/463309/#TopicPost463309">http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Whats-missing-from-GOUT/post/463309/#TopicPost463309</a>)" target="_blank">http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Whats-missing-from-GOUT/post/463309/#TopicPost463309">http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Whats-missing-from-GOUT/post/463309/#TopicPost463309</a>) was also present on this transfer. It's quite amazing that they didn't learn from their previous mistake just a few years earlier, but then again DVNR is still going strong albeit in a slightly more sophisticated way.

Darth T said:

You probably know this already, but I wanted to tell you I noticed (after seeing it pointed out in some YouTube comments) some SE effects at about 51:23, just after the door-knock scene. While Ben and Luke sell the speeder, birds can be seen flying around in the background through the archway. In the original version, this is just a solid blue area.

This may already be on a list of fixes somewhere, but I couldn't find one, so I apologize. If such a list exists, I'd be thankful if you could point me to it so I don't bother you needlessly again.

 

Thanks again, and take care.

Darth T.

 

Not just that, but the effects in the 2004 mix are so garbled, you'd swear you were listening to the mono mix restoration.

Plus the music has been pushed so far in the background, you're overloaded with PEW PEW PEW PEW BSHOOOOO!

Infinity said:

With regard the the subtitle shake (and please someone correct me if I am wrong).  But wouldn't the subs be burned into the film itself and the shake would be caused by it going through projector?  If so, then wouldn't the whole film have such a shake (opening credits, etc)?  I understand you are trying to do a high quality restoration of the original trilogy, which I am grateful for - but to replicate what was caused by the projector and not what was was actually in the film itself seems like a bad idea to me.  It would be similar to adding cigarette burn marks in the corners, because they were seen in theaters from when the film had to be spliced together.

Please understand I mean no disrespect, and it is likely I am misunderstanding what caused the subtitle shake.  But if the shake wasn't on the actual film print then I don't think it should be part of the restoration/reconstruction.

I think there is going to be a little wobble in the subtitles, that is to be expected, but what I want to know is... Did Harmy stabilize the shots of greedo and han from the PG so they match the shots fom the 2004 masters pixel for pixel?

If he didn't, then you have the added gate weave from the transfer from 35 to 16mm and then the transfer from 16 to dv.

The quasi Frenchie here has sent you a PM. Sorry for the wait. I'm a teacher and between classes, prep work, real life... Kinda hard to juggle it all sometimes.

I think what we should be asking ourselves is how stabilized the PG is compared to Harmy's picture source? Obviously, if the PG's overall picture is very shaky and you just superimpose the subtitles over a more stable source... There is obviously going to be an exagerated amount of gate weave.

Don't feel bad, took me a while to understand as well...

And this is why you don't resurrect old threads!!!

IMO, if Star Wars were to be restored and re released, they would have to use a combination of different elements. The original negative might be able to provide shots that don't have effects, and then you could splice in SFX footage culled from other sources. Of course, you would notice a more than usual drop in quality between the shots.

In this case, it might be wiser, cheaper and more efficient to just scan technicolor prints, or recombine the seperation masters of the whole film, do a simple cleanup and release it like that. This way, the quality stays more or less consistant and we would also have a very purist form of the film as it was seen in 77.

As far as ESB and ROTJ are concerned, I can't say for sure, but I would be willing to bet that better care was taken in pre-production and that dupe negatives exist, as well as high quality IP prints. If the article that Danny Boy pointed to is correct, they did not even touch the O neg for the SEs of episodes 5 and 6.

Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:

Wikipedia says she's 55, which makes more sense because I was 17 in 1977, and there is NO way she was 16 when SW came out.

According to the article:

"Sadly, after 17 years, the CRI material had lost so much dye that every shot realized on that reversal stock had to be removed and recomposited from scratch in order to bring Star Wars back to its original glory. Soon, Kennedy had Star Wars Special Edition film editor Tom Christopher (at Skywalker Ranch) and visual effects editor Dave Tanaka (at ILM) searching to come up with the original effects elements so that these shots, as well as other less-than-perfect opticals, could be recomposited digitally."

CRI was a then new reversal film adopted by special effects crews. Unfortunately, the film was extremely unstable and it fades extremely fast compared to other film.

Unfortunately, the original optical shot negatives have faded away, so yes, George was right in saying that the original Star Wars doesn't exist.

Mverta was probably right in saying that the Technicolor IB prints are the highest quality prints available to us.

Also, your article pointed out something interesting. It mentioned that Empire and Jedi only used scanned IPs for the SE....

Hard proof? What hard proof? :P

I speak French.... Would like to help out.

The Special Widescreen Edition Trilogy... And why not THX 1138... I know there's a big effort to restore the original theatrical edition, but they used a DVD recorder to capture the video.

Also, if I had a better computer I'd be all over Arnie.D's transfers!

Laserschwert said:

Harmy said:

Yeah, I like mine better, Mike's look fake to me.

I wouldn't say that at all... no offense, but your credits don't look too good and suffer a lot from upscale artifacts. I'm sure it would be possible to rebuild them to look more like the original (and I'm sure Mike's images are legit).

Harmy said:

Maybe that's because of bad ADR, because there's a lot of bad ADR lipsync in ROTJ.

Harmy said:

I still maintain that two frames is a negligible difference, as proved here:
>

Ah, that explains why the sound goes out of sync after degobah in Harmy's DVD5 version, but then kinda goes back later on.

Thought my DVD player was wonky.

Which then begs the question...where did this crawl come from? From a whole print or perhaps just a small reel of negative cut from the A/B roll in 81?