Isn’t Felicity Jones’ character supposed to be Han Solo’s ex girlfried? He was a gentler man back then, but their break up caused him to build the tough guy exterior and selfish personality we saw in Episode 4…
(#manthosebookswereterrible)
Me gusta!
What’ll be nice about these “Star Wars Stories” is that they wont be too tied down with tradition. I think future filmmakers should be allowed to put their own mark on these films not unlike the Harry Potter or Alien series.
Yeah, once the other drives arrive, I will put together a semi-cleaned up version quickly that should be quite watchable, I ned it anyway to plan the proper cleanup workflow.
If someone could put together a scene list from the bluray, of what has been changed, then I can do the full restoration of those scenes first, before tackling the restoration of the entire film. I’d also restore those to match the blu-ray, which would be quite a different process to what I have planned for the film itself.
I did a ghetto restoration of THX using the 16mm scan (audio and SEN), the LD, and the BD. The vast majority of changes are listed here: http://www.movie-censorship.com/report.php?ID=541751
I don’t think it’s 100% comprehensive as there were a few other slight differences in frames here and there (plus obviously the pre-1978 differences to consider), but it’s everything major that I noticed (between LD and BD). I wish I still had my NLE project files but it seems I do not.
Anyway, that list would be a fantastic start for cleaning up the vast bulk of the shots needed.
The BD has a blue tint over much of the film. I removed it from a lot of scenes using an LUT that someone on OT made. Are you guys planning on matching the BD to the IB colors?
Ugh. Looking at that list of changes… You just have to ask yourself… Why?
This is why this project is important: this isn’t Star Wars and the masses are not writing petitions to get THX released in its original version(s). Like Poita has said: Star Wars, in its original version, has been scanned. It’s safe. This 35mm print is all we have for a high definition restoration of this piece of history.
I guess from my view, if the 16mm is the Warner cut and the LD is Lucas’ original cut, why did Warner go through the trouble of simply re-ordering shots in the middle of the film? If I was a studio head and wanted to make THX more ‘commercial’ I would make a lot more changes to that film than what was supposedly done.
Mavimao, you know you just “won” the task of making a visual guide to all the known versions of THX? 😛
(once the whole scan is finished of course)
…oh by the way, second part of THX just reached the scanner. It will be scanned soon.
It actually wouldn’t be that difficult. The versions are not THAT different from each other: the 16mm, the 35mm and the Italian broadcast pretty much follow the same shot order after the beginning with the latter shortened here and there (not unlike modified for TV broadcasts of the time). While it’s true the LD modifies the shot order between THXs arrest and his placement in the weird insane asylum, and the scene between SEN and the children is slightly shortened, everything else is the same as the 16mm.
The Magnificient Ambersons, Greed… Those are films that were taken from their creators and irreversible and severely altered by the studios. From what I’ve seen, THX has just has tweaks.
I’ve finished watching the rest of the film by watching the LD and the 1971 16mm print together. Here’s what I’ve found (although I’m sure you all know this already):
“Convlusion” scene comes last in the altered shot order on the 16mm and Italian broadcast, so I assume it will appear at the beginning on reel 3 on the 35.
Nothing changes until the extended SEN scene. The 1971 16mm contains this extended cut. The LD is edited down. INTERESTINGLY enough… The LD has an inserted cutaway shot of the boy when SEN says “Combined Primary Economics”. The 1971 print stays on SEN the whole time.
I went ahead and checked the Italian broadcast and it has the extended SEN scene.
Everything else is the same.
So, apart from an altered shot order in the middle of the film, nothing is missing between the two versions. In fact the 1971 version might have 30 seconds more footage when you take the extended SEN talking to children into account. There you go.
Oh and I might have been mistaken about the translated titles being part of the print in the Italian Broadcast… They also seem spliced in. I know the final shot is spliced in from another print. Someday I may check it out…
So I’ve watched the Italian broadcast and here’s my personal opinion of this particular version: it’s a fullframe 16mm print that’s been cut up, rearranged and shortened. All of the changes have tape splices and judging by the size they appear on the image, they’ve been done to a 16mm print. All of this points to an unofficial version done by perhaps the TV studio.
Here are the changes I’ve noticed compared to the 35mm print (after the obvious changes to the beginning):
At around the 11:30 mark, LUH says ‘THX is that you?’ and she appears from around the corner and then, it cuts to her info text screen. In the 35mm version, it goes from this shot of her coming around the corner to the medicinal cabinet security shot to a shot of a man at a surveillance station and then her text info.
At around 14:52; they cut out a shot of LUH with her face to a wall that cross fades into the nuns walking. In the broadcast version, it goes from a shot of LUH watching the hologram to the nuns halfway through the corridor. Again, there is that tape splice.
At around 15:40, there’s a splice after THX’s second ‘confession’. It’s missing a longer shot of him throwing up.
At around 19:15: Splice! Goes from the men jogging to the malfunctioning guard. Missing two shots: the man looking out the window and the man staring at numbers.
At around 20:46: There’s a minute and 20 seconds spliced out after THX and LUH have their talk in the crowd. It’s missing a surveillance shot and shots of THX at home before deciding to investigate over at SEN’s place. Again, tape splice.
At 23:12: Another tape splice. Missing shots: LUH asking for THX (“Tex??”) and then shots of them praying to the Jedi-monk hologram.
At 24:33. Tape Splice. Weird shower shot is cut.
(subtitle spelling mistake: ‘You’re loosing it’ should be: You’re losing it)
After THX’s arrest, the shot order of this section in the Italian Broadcast matches that of the 35mm and the 16mm.
I stopped here since we don’t have the rest of the film.
Nice detective work! For additional info on the Italian TV-Broadcast DVD, see my old detective work here: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/THX-1138-preservations/post/588049/#TopicPost588049
Ah you had noticed the splices as well! They are there even at the beginning what with everything reordered.
Just to add to my opinion that this is a glorified fan edit: if you were reediting a film for major distribution, you wouldn’t use a pan and scanned distribution 16mm print! You’d go back to the original materials and start there! And not only that, but it’s an ITALIAN print (the computer screens are translated and are not just hastily spliced in. In fact this broadcast version “fixes” a mistake in the 35 print. When THX is being probed, there’s an information screen and then a second lf black leader frames - as though they’d run out of Italian screen footage! The broadcast splices this out.). This leads me to believe that this was done by someone in Italy.
While it may not have been the TV station, it could very well have been the Italian distributor who got this film, thought it was weird and created a “faster, more intense” version to sell to TV stations.
So I’ve watched the Italian broadcast and here’s my personal opinion of this particular version: it’s a fullframe 16mm print that’s been cut up, rearranged and shortened. All of the changes have tape splices and judging by the size they appear on the image, they’ve been done to a 16mm print. All of this points to an unofficial version done by perhaps the TV studio.
Here are the changes I’ve noticed compared to the 35mm print (after the obvious changes to the beginning):
At around the 11:30 mark, LUH says ‘THX is that you?’ and she appears from around the corner and then, it cuts to her info text screen. In the 35mm version, it goes from this shot of her coming around the corner to the medicinal cabinet security shot to a shot of a man at a surveillance station and then her text info.
At around 14:52; they cut out a shot of LUH with her face to a wall that cross fades into the nuns walking. In the broadcast version, it goes from a shot of LUH watching the hologram to the nuns halfway through the corridor. Again, there is that tape splice.
At around 15:40, there’s a splice after THX’s second ‘confession’. It’s missing a longer shot of him throwing up.
At around 19:15: Splice! Goes from the men jogging to the malfunctioning guard. Missing two shots: the man looking out the window and the man staring at numbers.
At around 20:46: There’s a minute and 20 seconds spliced out after THX and LUH have their talk in the crowd. It’s missing a surveillance shot and shots of THX at home before deciding to investigate over at SEN’s place. Again, tape splice.
At 23:12: Another tape splice. Missing shots: LUH asking for THX (“Tex??”) and then shots of them praying to the Jedi-monk hologram.
At 24:33. Tape Splice. Weird shower shot is cut.
(subtitle spelling mistake: ‘You’re loosing it’ should be: You’re losing it)
After THX’s arrest, the shot order of this section in the Italian Broadcast matches that of the 35mm and the 16mm.
I stopped here since we don’t have the rest of the film.
Here is a beginning of reel sample @ UHD resolution so you can see all of the damage detail. The heads and tails tend to be the worst areas of a film.
https://we.tl/ClDZjBS7sd
Ah, indeed there is a good amount of damage. How are you going to go about fixing this damage? Will you be using an automated approach or entirely manual? I suppose you have an IR matte?
This is a really wonderful final project you’re working on. Thank you again for everything you’re doing.
Dendrites coming your way
Dendrite! I was way off…
You’ll see from Italian broadcast that the order of scenes is different in our version. Trial, arrest, testing etc are not in the same order as seen on LD. We listed differences back then in the 1000+ pages thread about THX but it has become too difficult to go through it… that’s why you have just been given the role of “differences checker”. May OMM be with you 😉
Hahaha! Do I get a red foam cube for being good?
Right, found a major change in reel two:
After the “mind block” scene, when THX is taken away, we see him on the floor with a bloodied back and the guards are tying his hands… The two differ after this:
On the LD, it cuts to his trial and then in the white room surrounded by guards with sticks. Then he’s on the operating table getting his “surgery”. Then cuts to him on the floor convulsing and there are two men talking over a TV image of him convulsing. He wakes up, LUH runs to him, they make love. They are then surrounded by guards.
On the 35mm sample, it cuts to him in the big white room on the floor and LUH runs to him. They make love and are surrounded by the guards. Then there’s THX getting his “surgery”. Then the trial scene. Then THX is sitting on the floor in the white room and is surrounded by guards with sticks.
Unless it’s on another reel, the scene with THX in convulsions while the two men talk is missing from this 35mm cut.
EDIT: Just watched the 1971 16mm clip at this point and it’s exactly in the same order as this 35mm sample. So, this Italian cut is pretty much the 1971 cut with inserted Italian computer information screens and credits and a missing shot after the credits and at the end of reel 1.
I’ll put the PC on to give you a hand 😉
3 seeders! Thanks!
Right, so instead of scrubbing through the timeline, I’m actually watching it the whole way through and I know what’s causing everything to go off sync:
ONTO REEL 2!
Fanstastic! I honestly can’t get over how pristine this print is, especially considering its age. I guess it helps that it wasn’t a popular film so it didn’t get shown over and over again.
Also: I can’t say 100%, but it does look like the US cut, but with no Buck Rodgers. The rabbit hole goes further…
It makes sense that they would remove Buck Rogers for the Italian release, the beginning of the film is already not the easiest thing to understand for a generic audience, Buck Rogers would have been even more confusing considering that in Italy we don’t (or didn’t) know who he was. It’s a pop culture moment that would have made no sense to us. They removed the track 29 joke from the train station sequence in Young Frankenstein for the same reason
I didn’t get that joke either and I’m American!
Right, so I played the LD along with the 16mm b/w sample up until THX leaves work at the beginning and they match up. So the 35mm print is yet another unique cut.
I’m trying to download the Italian TV broadcast to see how it and the 35 compare but there are only two seeders and it’s going to take a couple of days.
For its age, it isn’t too bad, but the low resolution and heavy compression of the samples I uploaded hide a lot of the dirt and scratches and other damage. I’ll upload some higher resolution samples so you can see what I mean. However, for all that, the print was an excellent purchase and as good as we are likely to ever find for a 1970s small release film!
I guess I keep thinking about the Star Wars prints and the Matrix print and how absolutely beat up they are and here we have a film that older than either of those and it seems to be in relatively awesome shape.
I took Poita’s newest sample and attempted to sync it with the Japanese LD rip that’s floating around. What I did was take the LD video and shrank it until it was a small frame in the bottom corner and then put the 35mm sample underneath in its full resolution. At first I attempted to sync them at the first shot after the credit roll. Unfortunately, the shots don’t match. For instance, the LD starts with a shot of a clock and then the shot of the security camera in THX’s medical cabinet, whereas the 35mm sample goes straight to the security camera. The closest I could get something decent was by linking the beginning of the shot of the oscilloscope. Even then you notice that shots tend to be shorter by a few frames or later shots are out of order and this creates a cascading effect where nothing is in sync anymore further down the timeline.
I wonder how the 1971 16mm print relates to either of these cuts. I’d need to fire up my external HD but I’m stuck babysitting right now…
Fanstastic! I honestly can’t get over how pristine this print is, especially considering its age. I guess it helps that it wasn’t a popular film so it didn’t get shown over and over again.
Also: I can’t say 100%, but it does look like the US cut, but with no Buck Rodgers. The rabbit hole goes further…
Here is the segment for Spaced Ranger:
This is heavily compressed and in 720P the original files are much, much grainier 😃
Thank you for the sample, Poita! Indeed the color registration is pretty bad… But I can’t imagine it being very difficult to fix. They used tools for the Wizard of Oz restoration to ensure that all the channels lined up perfectly - but then again, we probably don’t have access to those tools.
On the bright side, the print looks clean and the colors intact.
I’m actually using the same tools pretty much, but they had the 3 strip seps, so it was a piece of cake, extracting the layers with no ghosting from a print is more tricky, but it certainly can be improved a lot, and in most scenes you wouldn’t notice it in motion. Just is more fiddly as the colour varies from frame to frame, so getting the layers perfectly extracted then adjusted and recombined it a lot more work than if working from a 3 strip scan.
Gotcha!
Well, if I’m not mistaken (and I very well could be), the raw scan would have the different color layers separated already since it scans each frame’s red blue and green channel. You’d just have to take those different layers and recombine them more precisely.
Well, if colour filters and light were perfect, then yes.
However the real world isn’t as kind, so separating out a layer perfectly, with no crosstalk between the other layers is very difficult from a print. You can do it ‘well’, but doing it perfectly is a lot of fiddling around. Then you have the problem of when to do it in the chain, if you do it before dirt and scratch removal, then the dirt and scratches become harder to repair, if you do it after, the separations are harder to isolate, so it takes a bit of work.
I figured something had to give. Thanks for clarifying! And good luck with the rest of the restoration!
Well, if I’m not mistaken (and I very well could be), the raw scan would have the different color layers separated already since it scans each frame’s red blue and green channel. You’d just have to take those different layers and recombine them more precisely.
Here is the segment for Spaced Ranger:
This is heavily compressed and in 720P the original files are much, much grainier 😃
Thank you for the sample, Poita! Indeed the color registration is pretty bad… But I can’t imagine it being very difficult to fix. They used tools for the Wizard of Oz restoration to ensure that all the channels lined up perfectly - but then again, we probably don’t have access to those tools.
On the bright side, the print looks clean and the colors intact.
Educate me, poita. What is channel registration?
Here is an example of color registration issues:
This is a crop from the photo that THXITA posted on page 1. Look at the handle of the little tray. Do you see how the blue and red channels don’t line up in that particular area? That’s a common issue with IB prints since you’re essentially laying three images on top of each other in a film laboratory.
Did someone say… Grant??
This looks really great Dr. Dré! Thank you for all your hard work.
Dude Where’s My Car? is comedy gold. Come at me!