Well we know there was a Dolby Atmos mix so perhaps there are differences between this and the normal cinema mix (7.1??)
3PO may be brass colored in reality, but was he supposed to look that way in the film? They could have timed the colors to make him look more gold, right?
Before the age of digital intermediates, films were not thoroughly color-timed. The analog process was time consuming: you basically have a guy reading a correction list from the filmmakers, then lining up the shots needed to be re-timed and finally sliding in glass color filters in an optical printer. The process was usually reserved for certain shots to correct white balance (think of correcting the green in florescent lighting) or to create a certain mood (think of the use of blue in Manhunter).
When making movies in an all-film workchain, cinematographers want to make sure the look is as in-camera as possible. This is much more economical.
The question we need to ask is not how C3PO looked in real life, but how the filmmakers knew how he would show up on camera. This is why they would film tests for puppets and makeup - to see how their creations would be interpreted by the film stock.
This is why it is important to take filmstock characteristics into account when doing a restoration. People working on film KNEW how things would look on the screen and adjusted the sets, lights and makeup in order to “compensate” (for lack of a better word). If you don’t do this, you’ll end up seeing the heavy application of rouge on princess Leia and C3PO turning almost green.
Ok, excellent.
So basically it gets us back to the colours on set, but not necessarily the colours captured on film, or to the original grade.
It does give a great neutral starting point to work from, I am keen to try it out.
Well, since you would correct large parts of the reel as a whole, the shot to shot color relationships would remain intact, so unless the original grade had some color bias (even for shots that were originally shot under white light), you should recover the original grade to a good approximation, before it was captured on film, which would then introduce the bias of the film stock.
Yes, very much the description of the colors I want to see. I’m not interested in film bias or bulb tint, I want what was captured on film. The image itself. I think we are close to being able to achieve this. Especially if Poita’s scans are any indication.
Well the image is influenced by the biases of a film stock. Kodak’s Vision stocks, for example, are much more saturated and colorful than the older Eastman stocks. Fuji stocks have a green-ish haze to them. So the image “itself” that was “captured on film” is very much influenced by the filmstock used. Film isn’t neutral.
In case anyone’s wondering what I’m talking about…
Watching the ESB sample again, I noticed that during the shot where the speeder passes under the walker’s legs, the speeder itself disappears in two different frames. This doesn’t happen in the uncorrected part.
Here is a sample from Empire, raw scan, then a pass with just a quick colour balance done in Nucoda to see if the print is worth using, then a dustbust and ny deflicker/denoise routine as a test.
Obviously he colour still needs a ton of work, I am mainly just checking that the print was worth pursuing. Also no damage repair, hair removal, emulsion scratch removal etc. has been done, this is just a rough pass, so keep that in mind.
“Color” me impressed! That’s pretty good for an automated script.
To get rid of the red fade, are you using the same technique that you did for the 16mm print of THX?
Star Wars: FTLFT was suggested. I’ll leave the acronym to your collective imaginations.
F*** the Lucasfilms’ Trilogy?
Thanks so much, Poita! For keeping in touch, for sharing the read along, for the sample… It’s all fantastic.
I don’t like nor dislike 3D, personally. However, I totally forget I’m watching 3D after about 10 minutes and I ask myself: why am I paying extra money for this??
Remastering the Prequels in 4K? I don’t really see the point since Ep. II & III were shot on 1080p video.
817p actually. To make sure that they kept the traditional 2.35 aspect ratio Star Wars is known for, they hard cropped the 16x9 image.
I know. But- not necessarily you, Harmy- a lot of fans will simply refuse to be satisfied and will always find something to bitch about. Lucasfilm refuses to release the originals- that’s something to get angry about. The colors for the TFA BD are slightly different from the theatrical version? People get angry. It’s the nature of nerds.
Sure but HDR has absolutely nothing to do with it.
People are bitching about the HDR grade on the 4K Blu-ray for Ghostbusters. It’s a sad truth.
Where at? I cant seem to find it.
Blu-ray.com forums.
I can’t find any discussion of anyone complaining about this specific version. The UHD isn’t even out yet!
I see people complaining about HDR thinking that the studios are going to crank the effect like those cheesy HDR effects people are doing with stills. But nothing about Ghostbusters.
HDR on LED technology is what bothers me. Unless there’s 1:1 Pixel to LED ratio, you’re always going to struggle with abnormalities due to light bleed. Plasma was far better suited to HDR than LED, so it’s a shame to see it go. OLED seems promising but I’m hesitant to buy piggybacking new technologies.
My complaint with 4K Bluray (which was my complaint with Blu Ray in general) is that the push is resolution almost exclusively.
Most of the films being released on 4KBD were mastered in 2k. That means that all of that larger 100GB disc space and H265 compression efficiency is being wasted on an upscaled image. Blurays have consistently done that with older tv shows and especially anime - 1080p upscales of 480p material. I’d much rather see the bitrate that is being wasted on Pseudo Picture information piped into the best possible representation of the source.
Star Wars is going to be affected it a LOT due to image quality disparities between films -
Ep 1 was mastered at 2k, but has the potential to be remastered at higher quality if the original film sources are available.
Eps 2 and 3 are limited to their 2k masters, which themselves are upscales from 1080p digital sources.
Eps 4-6 have multiple masters, depending on which version is released. The original negatives have the potential to go even beyond 4k if they’re available in good enough condition - if not, Legacy has shown (well, hinted) that a 4k version is very attainable.
Sadly, we’re more likely to get Special Editions, which were scanned at 2k in the 90s, printed to a film negative, which were then rescanned at 4k in the early 2000’s.
Ep 7 (and presumably 8 and 9 will be) is already mastered at 4k.With that in mind… everyone knows we’re going to get a 9 film, 4k Bluray Set.
And despite everything above… all 9 will be 4k, H265 encodes. So much wasted space on imaginary “extra detail” at the expense of the actual source material. Your average viewer wouldn’t even know that the film on the disc is only encoded at 2k, but I think there’s a good chance they would notice when watching that it had double the bits per pixel.Source for the 2K and 4K scans info? AFAIK the original trilogy was scanned only in 1080p
The original trilogy can be rescanned (yay film), especially the OUT which has no “2k” digital imagery. The Special Editions are a little trickier. The 97 version would be a good candidate even if the new effects were done at 2k. If they wanted 4k masters of the bluray versions, that would be a bit difficult, but not impossible. They could rescan the 97 version and rebuild the changes by splicing in footage from the old masters or re-doing the effects.
As for the prequels: episode 1 is in the same situation at the 97 SE: shot on film in anamorphic widescreen and sfx done at 2k. Episodes 2 and 3 were filmed on 1st generation HD cinema cameras which shot at 1080p. To make the situation worse: in order to maintain the series’ habitual aspect ratio of 2.35, they simply hard cropped the image to 817p. So those two films are eternally stuck at those resolutions.
I know. But- not necessarily you, Harmy- a lot of fans will simply refuse to be satisfied and will always find something to bitch about. Lucasfilm refuses to release the originals- that’s something to get angry about. The colors for the TFA BD are slightly different from the theatrical version? People get angry. It’s the nature of nerds.
Sure but HDR has absolutely nothing to do with it.
People are bitching about the HDR grade on the 4K Blu-ray for Ghostbusters. It’s a sad truth.
Where at? I cant seem to find it.
Count me in for someone more interested in the increased color depth! But I’m going to wait until 4K matures and we get a better display technology.
Poita has scanned multiple prints which the majority of should have the 81 crawl. Those might be the best sources.
Oh no, they changed the sound mix? There’s always something, isn’t there?
I don’t know why people are surprised… Sound mixes are always remixed for home cinemas on Bluray.
Maybe they retained it for the 4K version.
I don’t know why that would change anything… Films are remixed to account for the audio dynamics of a certain space. Big theatre =/= living room.
ABC, 1,2,3… it’s Eric the half a bee!
Oh no, they changed the sound mix? There’s always something, isn’t there?
I don’t know why people are surprised… Sound mixes are always remixed for home cinemas on Bluray.
I just noticed when checking the different audio channels that the English 16mm sound is very noisy and/or clipping compared to the other audio tracks (especially noticeable with “s” and “th” in dialogues). Is this normal or did my track get messed up when remuxing for Blu-Ray?
This is normal and inherent of the source: 16mm optical audio is very crappy.
If I remember correctly, Harmy did a quick shot by shot manual color correction, so I don’t think it can be considered “correct”.
Looks VERY nice, Willarob! Will 1.5 use parts of Poita’s scan?
Lord Haseo said:
Is that some sort of half assed way of endorsing that terrible joke?No, I thought Silver was responding to me. I’m definitely not going to wade in on any bigoted nonsense. I was just in a bad mood yesterday upon hearing Lucasfilm has no plans to restore the OOT, and felt the appropriate response was to bash the rubbish films they continue to make.
Doesn’t Fox still have the rights to the OT until like 2020?
They just own the distribution rights. While it IS an obstacle, it’s not insurmountable. There are deals of these sorts made for all sorts of artistic ventures with various owners. Just look at Spiderman! Marvel and Disney were able to convince Sony to let them use the webslinger in Captain America: Civil War even though Sony still holds the film rights for that particular character.
It just requires them to sit down and cut a deal.
You are probably thinking of Harmy’s projects which use a combination of sources to achieve a high quality version of the Original Trilogy. This is considered a reconstruction since he’s starting with the altered Blu-rays and working around them.
Mike Verta has scanned a number of original 35mm prints, including several that use a now-defunct color process that is closer to the negative in terms of generations (so it’s less of a copy of a copy…). He’s been using averaging techniques to take several images and only leave the parts that are similar, which should - in theory - remove generational grain and get an image closer to the original negative.
Yes it is exciting but this will only be released to the public as an official Lucasfilms product so it’s up to the executives there and at Disney and at Fox to work something out.
On the bright side, there are people working on their own 35mm projects the most famous right now being the Silver Screen Edition. It, unfortunately, suffers from weird scanning artifacts since it came from a homemade scanning machine. However we do have high quality scans of several prints of all the films in the series. All is good.
No, it’s the conversion: normal film speed is 24 fps and PAL is 25. It’s much simpler to just speed everything up by 4%. There is no other “proper” conversion that exists except for digitally altering the pitch of the soundtrack but that’s more the exception and not the rule.
I think you’ve just now noticed it. I’m in PAL land and I have a hard time watching DVDs because of this. Thankfully Blurays don’t have this problem.
Also, was this guy in TFA, or is this a new character?
He was in TFA. I believe he was piloting an X-Wing…
Actually I’m pretty sure he was at the Resistance base during the battle. He had a couple lines about how many ships they were losing. might have been a different color, but definitely the same species at least.
Ah! I think you’re correct!
