Matt.F

The Dark Empire said:

oojason said:

Collipso said:

It really seemed like Finn was more than able to destroy the cannon to me. He was still going relatively fast in the cannon’s direction, while all the others turned back, which it in itself is a plot hole (how did Rose even get to him?) and something I noticed upon first viewing.

Uh this cannon! Reminds me of this:

Not a very good idea for Star Wars.

GROND! GROND! GROND!

That’s very much what they were going for, in fact I am pretty sure the cannon was referred to as a “Ram cannon” at one point. Star Wars has always had that fairy tale, Knights of the Round Table, ingredient - so it seems quite fitting that they should ‘suggest’ a medieval castle siege.

The Resistance Base is the castle, AT-ATs are the ballistas, the Ram cannon is the battering ram, and the speeders are the brave but foolhardy cavalry charge.

Right at the end of AOTC there are a couple of seconds of footage of Bail on a balcony dropping his head and striking his fist on the rail in defeat.

It’s a sunset scene with red lighting and so it would be perfect to repurpose as the moment when he sees the apocalyptic destruction wave roll across Alderaan towards him. It also has the classic iconography of a King on their balcony surveying their Kingdom, so even first time viewers ought to be able to make the implied connection that this Royal-looking person is Princess Leia’s father.

PT:R is no longer happening so no harm to pinch a snippet of footage to repurpose. The dignified character meeting their doom like a man is a classic movie trope. Small moments like these can pack a big emotional impact.

Obviously the previous Alderaan destruction, whilst impressive, was really all about the ‘kill Jar Jar’ punchline!

But since Adywan created that we have had two films that show ‘ground level’ as the Death Star strikes. If we care enough to see random Hosnian characters pre-strike then it’s surely appropriate to see Bail Organa, who’s appeared in 3 SW films and is the adopted father of Leia. The destruction of Alderaan is a Leia scene, it’s all about her reaction and explicitly seeing her father Bail die would really personalise it.

If it could be done well I think it’s worth including. It would connect ANH even better to RO, and also I think it would deepen Leias character and commitment to the cause, even providing more context as to why she might be an ‘ice maiden’ in ESB and closed off to allowing herself to love Han.

I thought Rose’s introductory scene was excellent, the way the dynamics changed between her and Finn it was like a mini movie itself.

If you were going to run a little acting class and wanted a two person scene for your students to try as an exercise you could do a lot worse.

That sequence where the Falcon draws off the fighters was a highlight of TLJ for me. Not just for the superb visuals but for the music. Great to hear Williams reprise of the OG Falcon vs Ties piece! Loved it.

We’ve heard many of the themes return, and someone might correct me, but I don’t recall hearing that particular music in any of the other SW movies till that perfect moment in TLJ.

“I must return to Alderaan to inform my people there will be no peace” Bail in Rogue One

I’d like to see him briefly on Alderaan as the planet meets its doom. I think that would add context and a human element to the tragedy.

Dre, you state “there is no doubt the First Order control the galaxy.”

I, and others claim that there is ‘some’ doubt!

The second sentence of the crawl says ‘now deploy’ meaning present to the events of TLJ. Plus barely any time has passed since the destruction of the Hosnian system.

But most pertinently we don’t see the FO controlling anything. They don’t have a presence on any planet. The Empire had troops stationed on a total backwater like Tatooine but the FO aren’t on any of the planets we see, so yes there is ‘some doubt’ over your “total control of the galaxy” claim.

“There’s no doubt the First Order control the galaxy.”

Dre, that’s not what we see in the two movies thus far. The First Order seem to have a serious Arsenal but we don’t ever see any garrisons or colonial troops on any planets like we did so frequently with the Empire.

In fact the FO don’t have a presence on any of the planets we see in the ST, they turn up and attack like raiders then depart.

If you’re using an album analogy, then surely the Special Edition is the ‘remastered’ re-release with bonus track.

The ST are new albums by an old band, and yes stylistically they haven’t changed that much but they have still topped the charts and been critically acclaimed.

Dre, you are just one of those ‘living in the past’ curmudgeonly fans who grumbles that there early stuff was better!

The victory at the end of Jedi was “tenuous at best”. Anyone claiming otherwise probably hasn’t watched the movies very closely.

“I shouldn’t have come, Vader is on that ship” Luke

“Don’t get jittery Luke, there are a lot of command ships” Han

We aren’t just talking about the regular Star Destroyers, but the ridiculously large Super Star Destroyers. Just a single one of those would be a match for the entire Rebel fleet… and there are “lots”.

Got to love this forum. Post a no name you tuber review and it gets + comments, but quote an expert like Mark Kermode or Chris Taylor and it gets dismissed…

“The rebels victory at the end of Return Of The Jedi seems tenuous at best” Chris Taylor, in his bestseller How Star Wars Conquered The Universe.

Tenuous at best.

Dom, quite possibly, but why didn’t they include Zuvio’s scene on the Blu Ray? One possible and legitimate reason to exclude it might have been because it had been partly repurposed for the vision scene?

I’d be interested to hear, what is your interpretation of the Kylo massacre snippets we see?

Mocata said:

Matt.F said:

Just a design coincidence. Zuvio is still in a few frames of Jakku.

So Jedi padawan students wear helmets now? Okay…

Huh? I’m not giving you an interpretation, that’s just how it is. Unless you want to believe Jakku has a rainy season and Zuvio had a twin brother… Duvio.

My interpretation is that this Force vision is probably meant to be Kylo and Knights of Ren massacre of the students at Jedi school… but it actually was repurposed footage and shows Zuvio being killed from a sequence that was deleted (and yes rain FX super simple to add on after the fact).

I remember JJ being very bullish in an early interview about the amount of deleted material there was from TFA, and then when we eventually got the home release it was a rather meagre affair. We all know that there was material with a ‘Constable Zuvio’ and an action figure of him was made for the first wave of characters so perhaps it was quiet a significant scene.

Oh actually… now it all makes sense. Kylo struck whilst they were all in VR mode!

Mocata said:

Matt.F said:

Dude Kylo kills doesn’t look much like a ‘student’ looks like Zuvio.

Just a design coincidence. Zuvio is still in a few frames of Jakku.

So Jedi padawan students wear helmets now? Okay…

“Through the force many things you will see, the past, the future, characters that made it as action figures but weren’t in the movie, and deleted subplots…”

Dude Kylo kills doesn’t look much like a ‘student’ looks like Zuvio.

Humby said:

Matt.F said:

Hardcore Legend said:
-we now know all the visions have been things that actually happened, including Rey being there when the Knights of Ren and Kylo massacre the rest of the students in the rain and then he turns to attack Rey

Wtf? Rey wasn’t there?! Plus unless Ben Solo had his Kylo mask and black cowl hidden under his pillow then it didn’t happen like we see in Rey’s vision either. You’re taking it way too literally.

Yeah, there is no way the Knights of Ren flashback was related to Ben’s attack on the temple. I could be wrong here, but I believe that scene was actually meant to take place on Jakku, where Kylo and the knights attack a Jakku outpost. The alien that gets slaughtered and his compadres lying dead on the ground closely resemble some characters that were supposed to be like the “Police” of Jakku. Constable Zuvio I believe was the character that they made a big deal about leading up to TFA- he might even be the one that gets stabbed through the chest in the flashback. But I admit it’s been a while since I’ve seen the flashback, so I could definitely be mistaken.

Hardcore Legend said:
-we now know all the visions have been things that actually happened, including Rey being there when the Knights of Ren and Kylo massacre the rest of the students in the rain and then he turns to attack Rey

Wtf? Rey wasn’t there?! Plus unless Ben Solo had his Kylo mask and black cowl hidden under his pillow then it didn’t happen like we see in Rey’s vision either. You’re taking it way too literally.

Hardcore Legend said:
Which is why I still think that when JJ returns he gives Rey a Skywalker parent.

No, I’d just drop it. You went into TLJ with that baggage and preconceptions, and it didn’t pan out. Rey is ‘Rey Random’. I’d just drop it.

ps. some kids didn’t believe - or didn’t want to believe - Darth Vader when he told Luke that he was his father in ESB too.

Now this ‘plothole’ about the spaceship leaving Jakku is nitpicking! You want an example of a pedantic nitpick, here is one!

This spaceship in the background is a tiny moment you have to freeze frame during a vision. I suppose Rey being on Cloud City is a plothole too - because I saw her there!! The whole segment is a vision, it is NOT literal. Even if you are taking it literally, then who is to say that her parents were on that spaceship, it’s entirely assumption (bit of visual misdirection hardly warrants it being canon now does it) - a plothole? Don’t make me laugh.

I’ll never be able to find the direct quote but Lucas wanted the original Star Wars to feel like it was beginning ‘part way through’ a story.

This mentality of under-explaining rather than over-explaining has persisted (Snoke) and it definitely wont be something that Lucasfilm would likely ever want to change.

Why?

Because it gives them loads of creative leeway to later “fill in the blanks”. With prequels, sequels, stand alones, TV shows, video games, books, comics, etc. It’s genius.

PORGMETHEUS

What was in the vials of black goo?

Yep, you guessed it…

To me this set is fantastic. It wonderfully straddles that fine line of being ‘Star Warsy’ yet also giving us something we haven’t seen before. Great visuals.

A good chunk of Star Wars appeal to me is the sets and costumes. You don’t have to concentrate on what the main characters are doing or the plot, there is always some piece of set design or prop in the frame that will interest the eye.