MalàStrana

chyron8472 said:

MalàStrana said:

(I liked TFA way better than the PT but sadly it’s a movie I barely have nothing to say about: it’s just a ride with no depth).

I believe TFA will be given more depth as a result of what happens in the rest of the Sequel Trilogy. Because really, A New Hope, by itself without the rest of the OT, is similarly only marginally deep at best.

I don’t agree at all, but moreover, if we put depth aside, ANH is more fun and creative than TFA (and by a long range). I nevertheless agree that EpVII will probably be stronger as the first chapter of the entire Sequel trilogy than it could be on its own (the first 30 minutes are quite good in fact, the rest is just rehash).

Interestingly (or not), I don’t really see the PT as the story of Anakin falling to the dark side, but as the story of Palpatine getting his way to [UNLIMITED !!!] political power. If I don’t buy at 100% Anakin’s fall (but roughly at 73.5%, in fan edits), I find that Palpatine’s plot to be more believable, in spite of unclear backgrounds to some parts of the story (yeah I know we can find explanations on everything on the internet, but my main source will still be the movies themselves). Lucas mixed up many cultural references (Dune, Othello, Roman Empire, Nazi Germany, modern day USA,…), and the result is very strange and daring. In proper hands this PT could have been as great as the OT. But at least, he tried something… (I liked TFA way better than the PT but sadly it’s a movie I barely have nothing to say about: it’s just a ride with no depth).

Hum… you’re trying to make a montage ! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFrMLRQIT_k)

edit: for continuity reasons, are you going to keep the lines during the arena fight, about the “aggressive negociations” vs “diplomatic solution” ?

Hal 9000 said:

By the way, MalaStrana, you’re a lunatic for making these subtitles.

Says the man who spent countless hours working on these edits 😃

Octorox said:
EDIT: …And I can’t find a way to remove that line without creating a jarring music edit. Great 😕

It’s not such an issue that Anakin calls her “Senator” in this scene. It can be interpreted as a reminder of his mission towards Padmé as a political figure.

I’ve just watched Hal’s edit on a big screen (well, I mean my home cinema, instead of the little window on my laptop used to synchronize the subtitles), and I concur: the video quality is great. There is some noise in a few scenes (mostly interior sequences where the production value is not full cgi), but the details are very good. I don’t quite remember the blu ray colors except the fact that I didn’t like them (saturated reds on Geonosis and some waxy filter used on every shot), here it feels more natural, less fake/digital. A slightly “grained treatment” (à la CLOAK OF DECEPTION) could indeed be the final improvement to make EpII look even better, or at least closer to EpI & III.

On the movie itself I won’t say that Hal’s cut has made of EpII a masterpiece, but it’s now highly watchable: most of the silliness is gone (only remains the silliness of the script itself), the “falling in love montage” is convincing (Anakin is no longer a whining piece of **** always talking about his boss and confessing mass murders, children included. He still has fascist tendancies but Padmé thinks he’s joking so it’s ok…), the political background is clearer (two interesting deleted scenes reinstalled), the pace is greatly improved. It stays the weakest movie of the franchise but now it no longer ruins everything. Un tour de force.

Once again, very good job !

Octorox said:

Sorry, dream sequence stays.

Don’t be: it’s your edit and your work ! The Tusken scream just sounds weird. Why don’t you use actual Shmi Skywalker lines ? (like “Ani… Ani…” when she dies, and lines from EpI - “what does your heart tell you ?” stuff - as a reminescence of his mother’s last words when he left her) ? It seems you’ve done that, but the Tusken scream covers everything else. Butagain: it’s 100% your call.

About the new video, littlev87 has got a point here, but for another reason: if we assume he got laid the night before, would he really want his first morning words to his beloved be “I saw my mother” ? However, on a technical point of view your edit is nicely done (The inclusion of a Padmé shot from ROTS is seamless).

I’m not a huge fan of “nightmare” sequences, and I’m not sure it is really needed. The diner scene is improved without the line mentionning Obi-Wan (that’s way Anakin is no longer always talking about his boss to the girl he’s hitting on), but I think there is a way you could trim the floating fruit part: on the wide shot the fruit is not in Padmé’s dish, so you could start directly with Anakin slicing the pear and “Force sending” a slice to Padmé’s fork. There is no dialogue and barely no sound effets, so I guess the tricky part would be to cut down the score.

(sorry I can’t right now try to show a rough cut of the montage I have in mind based on your edit, still haven’t got much time lately to seriously learning how to use premiere pro)

Well, it’s “heavy” Lucas at his best 😃 For instance the Obi-Wan/Dooku scene of EpII: taken independently the lines aren’t that terrible, but as a whole it has absolutely no sense (Dooku gives away every single information needed to stop the Sith plot ?!?). The same goes with Jango “I’m just a simple man, trying to make my way in the universe”, still don’t get how it is supposed to be a reply to “Your clones are very impressive. You must be very proud.” (Tumera Morrison is nevertheless very good as Jango, he does what he can with Lucas lines).

(and I looooooove Padmé mother’s “They didn’t tell us it was so serious !” whereas there had been an assassination attempt killing 7 people just the day before that she knows about…)

I like what you’ve done with Yoda and Windu (and Jar Jar): it’s still not golden age cinema, but at least they notably sound less dull.

It’s really cool ! Well, there is the awful space gondola but it’s a minor issue. It’s efficiently trimmed, with the family meeting scene in the middle it could actually work great. The Queen scene seems to be the way to go, with the whining Anakin part removed to focus on the political background.

I must say the all Naboo thing is the only part of Hal’s version that I find a little bit too long and too conservative (the future Vader portrayed as a luggage carrier is really painful, trimming that a little could be nice), and no other fan edit I’ve checked (L8 and Q2) do it a way I would reckon “definitive” (Hal’s night kiss is the perfect way to end the falling in love montage, good call to use it). Hence i’ll definitely want to see your version. If you remove the diner scene you would miss the “aggressive diplomaty” line referenced in the arena fight, but I guess it won’t be an issue.

About the meadow scene, I find the 4 lines removed in Hal’s to be the best edit work around for this particular part of the scene (“I don’t know. Someone.”, “- You? - Of course not me.”, “- But someone.”), will you also cut out the same lines ?

(working on the subtitles allows me to exactly know has been removed by Hal, and he’s really cut down some terrible dialogues that should never be heard in any subsequent fan edit 😃 )

Octorox said:

I can say that if you hate the “floating pear” scene and the “rolling in the grass” scene you will likely be happy as both of those scenes look to be out of the picture.

You have my attention here. A trimmed version of the Queen sequence may also be a good idea. Are you going to correct the sound issue in the cut version of “You’re exactly the way I remember you [in my dreams]”? (it sounds odd in both Hal’s and L8’s, maybe it’s better to completely remove this line ?).

edit: so I guess your “falling in love” montage will be something like that:

• arrival on Naboo (theatrical ? Alternate version ? Removed ?)
• corridor conversation (theatrical or alternate version ?)
• Queen meeting (trimmed version)
• family meeting (Hal’s or L8’s ?)
• Meadow scene (rolling on grass removed, like L8’s)
• dinner scene (without the floating pear)
• night kiss (Hal9000’s).

Well, I’ll decide it later, when I’m finished watching the movie (it may take a while). I took a look to the arrival on Naboo extended scene (I haven’t seen the film in years, even when the blu ray got released I merely checked a few scenes and then played frisbee with the disc) and… gosh… I forgot how terrible the acting and the dialogues were… the Coruscant part is way better now (Anakin is notably less a whiny piece of ****) but when it comes on Naboo, it’s still really painful (hopefully the kamino scenes are still cool enough). Curiously when the scene is back to the theatrical version the picture quality stays low. Why didn’t you use the HD material of the original version here ? (sorry if you have already explained your choice).

(I remember in France some papers stated when it was released in 2002 that “ATTACK OF THE CLONES is as good as THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK… maybe even better” … well… ok…) (3.5/5, I still don’t get it : http://www.allocine.fr/film/fichefilm-29014/critiques/presse/)

I have started to make french subtitles (good work on your edit choices Hal, even if I think you might be a little bit more conservative than I thought, but for continuity reasons I understand why you’ve left some terrible dialogues here and there). There is something I’m not sure about: how to translate “you” in some scenes ? In the original french file of the movie (the translation used for dvd and bluray), Padmé uses the informal “you” to address Anakin (the equivalent is “tu”), while Anakin uses the formal “you” (equivalent: “vous”). (to help: http://www.french-linguistics.co.uk/grammar/tu_and_vous.shtml)

Should I use the same approach ? I was thinking of using the informal “you” for both of them. I mean, they are about the same age and their respective positions are not that different (young senator and padawan soon to be knighted). Besides, in EpI Anakin uses the informal “you” to talk to Padmé (but the formal “you” in the only scene he talks to the queen). So ? (is there another french bloke around to give his thoughts about it ?) (the issue is the same in german, so I would also take a german advice).

chyron8472 said:

MalàStrana said:

TV’s Frink said:
OT Vader doesn’t ask stupid questions like that.

I wonder if it possible to edit the scene so he would just walk into the office and instantly help Palpatine by cutting Windu’s hand (just after he delivers the “you can’t” and “i need him” lines, with “he must stand trial” removed), and not sit afterwards but would rather stand and discuss with Palpatine their next move. So all the “dark side knighting” part of the scene should be removed

I’m pretty sure this is the way it’s cut here.

Not at all (I happen to have the Fall of the Jedi trilogy on my laptop so I’ve checked to be sure). Perhaps I’m not very clear in the description I’m trying to do.

Here is what I mean (I use screenshots to better explain):

(1) Windu and Palpatine fight and Palpatine seems defeated

(2) Anakin arrives
http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/916818shotanakinarrives.png

(3) Windu is about to kill Palpatine (for this scene you actually need Hal’s or L8’s edits in fact, with trimmed dialogues)
http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/791766shotwindu.png

Windu: “He’s too dangerous to be kept alive”
Anakin: “You can’t”

(4) Anakin cuts Windu’s hand:
http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/698648shotanakincutshand.png

(5) Palpatine does his “unlimited power” stuff
http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/140622shotunlimitedpower.png

(6) “torn apart” by his decision, Anakin sits and his saber falls (well, it is impossible to cut the sitting, and in fact it’s not that annoying)
http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/526081shotPalpatinerises.png

(7) Yoda feels a massive vergence in the Force
http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/154432shotYoda.png

(8) Palpatine says “rise” to Anakin (you remove all the knighting scene, “i pledge myself, etc”)
http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/716077shotAnakinrises.png

(9) as he walks away, you can put a line calling Anakin Darth Vader (there is room to do that, because no one speaks in this shot and we don’t see Palpatine lips. Added lines can be: “a powerful sith you’ll become, Darth Vader” - edit : this particular idea would not fit in Q2’s edit, because the point is to keep secrets)
http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/489275shotPapatinewalksaway.png

(10) Palpatine is putting his new clothes and explains their next move to Anakin.
http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/966522shotpalpatineplots.png

That way, you get rid of every close up on Anakin’s face where he’s crying or seems sad/upset. If I find enough time and skill I’ll try to make that edit (I’m really not sure I can do someting well polished, just thinking about it, it might not work at all).

TV’s Frink said:

MalàStrana said:

TV’s Frink said:
OT Vader doesn’t ask stupid questions like that.

Maybe in the next cut for the 4k blu ray: in ESB, instead of “all too easy” we’ll hear “what have I done ?”. He shall even say that line every time he does something bad in the OT. So, inconsistency fixed !

Please post that idea here and I’ll give you credit when I use it.

http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Episode-IV-A-Ridiculous-Hope/id/15697

So:

Maybe in the next cut for the 4k blu ray: in ESB, instead of “all too easy” we’ll hear “what have I done ?”. He shall even say that line every time he does something bad in the OT. So, inconsistency fixed !

TV’s Frink said:
OT Vader doesn’t ask stupid questions like that.

Maybe in the next cut for the 4k blu ray: in ESB, instead of “all too easy” we’ll hear “what have I done ?”. He shall even say that line every time he does something bad in the OT. So, inconsistency fixed !

I still don’t buy how Anakin turns to the dark side, but at least with those terrible lines removed it looks less silly. What would be a great helper is an alternate shot where he does not cry after Windu’s death.

I wonder if it possible to edit the scene so he would just walk into the office and instantly help Palpatine by cutting Windu’s hand (just after he delivers the “you can’t” and “i need him” lines, with “he must stand trial” removed), and not sit afterwards but would rather stand and discuss with Palpatine their next move. So all the “dark side knighting” part of the scene should be removed, it would be implied that he is already Sidious apprentice since an off screen scene that would take place just after the Palpatine reveal (the “power to save Padmé” scene). Not sur it would work with the available material though.

saf1916 said:
But if they’re fixing inconsistencies, there are far more important ones than this 😛

Yep, but Episode VII has practically dismissed the inconsistency of the Empire not using clone troopers in only two dialogue lines. I was a little bit disappointed that they didn’t extend the dialogue to add something about Kamino, like “Kamino facilities and clone engineering knowledge have been destroyed at the end of the Clone Wars anyway”. Again, it would be great to hear that line in ROGUE ONE.

Little Nemo said:

Wow, losing the “what have I done?” REALLY helps that scene in RotS.

You really think so ? Because only 5 minutes later Anakin has no second thoughts killing Jedi (and kids !) in the Temple. The “what have I done?” line has however a meta value, with Lucas expressing himself through Anakin 😃

Congrats. The cut list is promising. It seems you didn’t do anything about the meadow scene (that I hate with all my heart 😃 ), but I wasn’t convinced at first by a few choices you’ve made on the other episodes before changing my mind about them, so I guess I might be convinced by this one when I see the complete movie. Your list doesn’t mention either the younglings scene, which was removed in your v3, hope it stays out of v4 as well !

I’m highly interested by the Schorman HDTV source, the blu ray quality wasn’t that great for this movie (EpII has never been as good looking as the other two anyway).

Bingowings said:

Well, the internet is what gives a Jedi his power. It’s an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us; it binds the galaxy together.

“A 4G connexion ?!? Even Master Yoda doesn’t have a bandwidth that high.”

saf1916 said:
how they could have possibly built a bigger, better Death Star between eps 4-6

ROGUE ONE might give a answer to that. Maybe the geonosian project was too ambitious and suffered many failures over the years, before a simili Wernher Von Braun (= Mads Mikkelsen, as the space nazi scientist officer 😃 ) arrived to fix everything right. I would even love to see in this movie that a second death star is already being built in secret (and, why not in the background, plans for a crazy and impossible project called the “star killer base”…). So, with only 2/3 lines of dialogue Disney could settle for good one minor inconsistency. I hope they will !

@ Hal9000
I have finished the subtitles. I have also made a few corrections to A CLOAK OF DECEPTION file (for which I have finally chosen a better french title translation than the one used for the novel: “Un voile de dissimulation”, sounds better than “Un vent de trahison”). I’ll send the final files once I have also finished APPROACHING STORM.

You seem to have issues in understanding other people messages… As for the insult, I won’t even bother to comment it. But, yeah, have a nice day !

Hal 9000 said:

Man, little is right. Sounds like a small pop.

JEDIT: For clarification, this pop is audible in at least V3 (and probably V1 and V2 as well). It’s in my source file, being the DVD audio upsampled to lossless (to avoid generational loss when I synced it to the BR partway through production to save myself a heap of work).

Just saying, I found this pop to be odd because there is no editing work on this particular shot.

I’ve shown your ending to my family members and they love the fact Padmé lives (I must be the only one to want her dead 😃). Appart from a few minor details I really like your cut (well, except the “Vader’s suit” sequence… at least the russian scream is less ridiculous so it’s still better), especially the way you’ve seamlessly removed little bits of dialogues that were very weird (as if the characters had read the screenplay and even seen the movie). Qui-Gon speaking to Yoda is great, I remember Liam Neeson was reported (rumor ?) to have recorded a voice over sequence back in 2004, but it was nowhere to be heard in the final cut for some reasons. Clever choice to complete this subplot with “Clone Wars” material (I would love to see Qui-Gon Force Ghost in “Episode 8: The First Order Strikes Back”).

I have finished a french srt file by the way. Waiting to watch the entire movie with my family so as to correct residual mistakes before I send it to you (and post the link here if it’s ok for you).

Again, very good job !

TV’s Frink said:

MalàStrana said:

I bet you don’t.

That’s great to know.

If nothing else, maybe you’ll stop using Machete Order wrong?

Or stop spelling steak wrong?

Or just you start ignoring my messages if you stick to this aggressive behavior.