Well, one Star Wars year is one Earth year. The universal tardis translator allows us to understand the movies with our cultural references…
Darth Lucas said:
If it is between Death Star and Coruscant, I say Coruscant. The Death Star makes for a cool scene to set up A New Hope and it looks really cool, sure, but it just raises far too many questions. Why did it take almost 20 years to build the first one when they already had the plans but they were able to completely redesign, improve, and build a new one in only like 4-5 years?
It’s unclear when does the scene take place. Sure, the next scene is Ben “delivering” baby Luke, but still the death star scene could take place a few years after Palpatine founded the Empire. As for “how long does it take to build the death star”, ROGUE ONE might give an answer ?
I edited my previous reply when I saw that Octorox explained his point of view on the question. “Generations” is from Obi-Wan speech, “years” is from Palpatine (in Episode II, I think). Still I’m not sure which one is canon.
For a thousand years the
knights of the Jedi Order have
protected the Galactic Republic
Now, after a millennia of peace, sinister
forces conspire in the shadows of
If I may: you could kinda link the prelogy with the postlogy by using “awaken” instead of “conspire” (or even “Dark forces” instead of “sinister forces” if you’re a gamer 😃).
Darth Lucas said:
Might be cool to have them looking over a massive fleet of Star Destroyers or something. I mean it doesn’t have to be a round planet-like object they’re looking at does it?
The only point of the scene is to stage the future events of Episode IV (and to show a montage of deaths - Padmé, Anakin, the Republic - and births - Vader, Luke, Leia, Death Star, the Empire), so there are only two ways that can make sense: you keep the movie version of the scene (with the death star being built) or you cut the scene completely.
Hal 9000 said:
Not a problem. I really don’t remember if I said this before, but please be mindful to avoid confusion if you keep the opening crawl of either edit, including its title.
I’d like to model the crawl on yours, but I don’t won’t to keep the title, specifically for that reason. I’m going to try to create a custom crawl. For credits Ill likely splice in the blu-ray credits and not include any fan edit credits, but credit all the fan editors who’s work I cribbed from on the forum threads and in the download location.
Or else, you can indeed use the original movie version of the credits, and just add a black pannel where is written in white letters who has contributed to the edit (at the beginning of the file, after the “this is a fan edit of… not for sell… etc.”). As for the title, every good title is used by fan edits, so it would be difficult to find a new one. So, just call it “The Phantom Menace” !
Hal 9000 said:
Also, are we sure we don’t like the Russian version of the Vader scream? 😛
I believe that you might be the only one who wants to keep Vader screaming “No !!!” and the Frankenstein’s Monster walk as well. Are you sur you don’t like the L8 version of the scene ? 😃
@ Hal9000 : I have completed the french subtitles file. I’ll make a last check by showing your edit to my family, and then I’ll send it to you. If someone (like Octorox) makes another cut based on yours, it would be simple to keep the correct french subtitles with an accurate “time” log book. The timing is precise and the translation is closer to the english text than their bluray counterparts ('cause french subtitles are often based on french dubbing, so there are always minor differencies), so it’s possible to use this file to produce accurate english subtitles as well (I’m not gonna do it 😃 ).
I haven’t decided yet for Episode II and III. I think your Episode II v4 edit is likely to have my preferences; the v3 is fine and I believe the v4 is going to be improved (I truly hope you’ve trimmed the meadow pic nic !). I don’t know if you have corrected the irritating score issues, such as the Federation Army’s theme used for the Clone Army (on Kamino) and the Darth Vader’s Imperial March used for the Republic Army (ending scene), but I don’t believe any faneditor has ever tried that, or if it’s even possible to do it (maybe someday I will try myself, just need to learn how to use a montage software).
As for Episode III, I’m still puzzled with some of your choices, especially Padmé’s death and Vader’s “Noooo !”. The Yoda vs Emperor scene removal is also something I’m not really sure about : Yoda shouldn’t be fighting but on the other hand seeing the Emperor fighting the most powerful Jedi by throwing Senate Chairs has a strong symbolic value that fits perfectly the Prelogy narrative path of Palpatine (who would 19 years later dissolve this very same senate). So, for Episode III I’m still trying to choose between your edit and l8wrtr’s (who is currently editing a v2 version, isn’t he ?).
On second thought I concur with you on two scenes:
re-added the cut-down version of the “working on the pod” scene from l8wrtr’s edit (but I would still keep the “dawn of the race” scene);
removed the visual of the podrace announcers Fode and Beed.
If I may, my “perfect cut” would also keep a few minor changes from L8WRTR version:
“Shadow of the Sith” title (but with Hal9000 text) (“cloak of deception” is really odd when translated in french : “Un vent de trahison”, which means “A wind of treason”) ;
re-added Anakin’s gift to Padmé (with trimmed dialogues) ;
removed Boss Nass weird “spiting twitch” (don’t know how to call this) ;
within the previous Boss Nass scene, I would also consider re-adding the line “Yousa no tinken yousa greater den da Gungans?” (L8WRTR version) and removing Amidala’s “my protection, my loyal bodyguard”, but it wouldn’t change much I confess ;
The better paced death of Darth Maul ;
Apart from these minor details, I agree with Hal9000 point fo view (even the Jar Jar close up, the droid nose joke, the Jar Jar encounter with Sebulba, etc.).
Ok, i’m looking forward to watching this, but as you write it, it doesn’t seem to change so much things; and as a matter of fact I agree with Hal’s point of view of leaving some “necessary evil” scenes, in order to keep a more natural flow to the movie. For example, the “clean R2D2 scene” is “necessary evil”, because it leads to the only scene where we learn who Jar Jar is and we hear “gungans” for the first time - the obnoxious gungan city scene having been cut -, which is needed here since Jar Jar and the gungans are key plot elements of the third act. As for the “dawn before race”, it adds a better buddy scene between 3PO and R2 while having a brief “Padmé and Anakin alone” moment (which is nice considering the next movies).
@ Hal: I have almost finished a french srt file using subtitle worshop (my family members aren’t all fluent in english). If you want it, I’ll send it to you so more people can enjoy your cut (with minor corrections it would also fit to other edits).
Lord Haseo said:
TV’s Frink said:
Lord Haseo said:
- STAR WARS (has a better plot than TFA but falls short in just about every other way)
I really like TFA but I’m gonna disagree there.
It’s one of those unpopular opinion things that I can’t adequately explain but every time I watched TFA I enjoyed it way more than I have ever enjoyed STAR WARS. Maybe it’s because it’s new but I’ve seen the film 4 times and it’s embrace has only tightened.
At least STAR WARS stands on its own, while TFA needs its two sequels to know if the story is relevant or not. And the new characters are not as interesting (Rey has nothing to accomplish - everything is easy for her, with “Full Force Unlocked” plot holes… -; Finn is just a “traitor”; Poe is on screen 10 minutes…). The mythology is also a missed point (the soul of an “excalibur” light saber ? Seriously ?!?). Nevertheless I enjoy TFA, but it’s very far to be a movie as strong as the original STAR WARS.
The Empire Strikes Back (I can’t even explain why: this is the perfect sequel as well as the perfect movie: entertaining, intelligent, mythological, deep, moving, funny, an infinite replay value…)
Star Wars A New Hope (almost as good as its first sequel, a very hard call to rank it second place)
Return of the Jedi (the confrontation with the Emperor is truly great, the Jabba’s opening scenes are pure swashbuckling fun, the space battle is magnificent: just frustrating this is a rehash of ANH with dull moments and poor characters. Would have love this scene to make its way in the final cut: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gT-ZsR2P8dU (without the “scum” line))
The Force Awakens (mediocre, albeit entertaining and with the first 30 minutes very nicely done. Sadly, the characters, especially Rey - who masters the force in a minute because the script needs it… -, are not interesting, and fan service has its narrative limits).
Revenge of the Sith (well, I like the global aesthetic and a few sequences. Williams score is a masterpiece, but the key scenes are failed in almost every way possible) (with a proper edit, it would be ranked a little bit higher than TFA I think)
The Phantom Menace (not that bad and as about the same quality as ROTS - great score, the Qui Gon Jin lead character is fine, the overall plot is interesting -, but overwhelmed with bad taste jokes, confused plot elements, pointless sequences, and questionable designs)
The Attack of the Clones (this one is so bad on every level, I don’t understand how this is even possible to miss an opportunity so much. I would save most of the Kamino’s scenes and the Tusken massacre. Even the score got mixed up: Yoda’s theme used for Anakin in action, Darth Maul’s theme used for Anakin on a bike, Darth Vader’s theme used for the Clone Troopers and the Republic Army, Trade Federation’s droid army theme for the Separatist’s droid army… : not very wagnerian…).
If it had been a movie, I would have ranked Tartakowsky “Clone Wars” fourth, between Episode VI and Episode VII.
Hey Hal, I just completed an edit for my own personal viewing that mixes and matches changes from your and L8wrtr’s edit (with a little bit from the Phantom Editor as well). I used your edit as the primary video source and spliced in bits from L8wrtr’s edit where needed (with a little grain and color correction to match it). Would you be opposed to me uploading this to Myspleen or elsewhere? With proper credit given of course.
Do you have a detailed list of the changes ? (at least compared to Hal9000’s edit).
Unfortunately, I don’t have a MySpleen invite so I can’t access the tracker. Do you know if there are any other ways to get the file?
EDIT: I think I’ll just live with Q2’s Episode III edit for now. It seems like it should go pretty well with l8wrtr’s Episode I and II.
L8wrtr’s edits can be found on kickass torrent.
I’ve read in an Hal9000 post that L8wrtr was working on a V2 version on his edit for ROTS.
Hal 9000 said:
I agree with towne32 about the colors; KK650’s version takes liberties with color, whereas Schorman’s is a better representation to how the films originally looked, which is what I’m going for. And I still hope that somewhere down the line I can do a special release using Emanswfan’s regrades.
Since V4 will be it, I’ve held off for Schorman’s V2, but might just use V1 if it ends up being the last thing I’m waiting on and he’s still away from the forum. I don’t know where it is patched or anything, but it looks beautiful to my eyes, especially AOTC. Far superior to the BluRay.
Take your time, there is not rush if you can get higher video quality for your final version. I have rewatched a few scenes and I finally agree with the removal of the Dex scene, as well as the Geonosis droid factory action sequence. It’s really an improvement over the original material.
Just a question about the musical montage: you’ve got the fine idea to use McNeely’s SHADOWS OF THE EMPIRE soundtrack to give a very effective sound structure to the beginning of the podrace sequence. Have you ever thought about removing the inappropriate use of the Darth Vader theme at the end of AOTC with around 50 seconds of the “Imperical city” track (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwPTbVMenRc#t=3m08s) ? This cue has a deep Roman Empire (Miklós Rózsa style) eerie feeling that could totally suit the strange and corrupted Republic Planet on the edge of chaos.
Oh Lucas why make things so complicated.
Well, this happens when pure creativity is not canalized and challenged by a gifted producer (Rick McCallum is not Gary Kurtz).
Hal 9000 said:
Thanks, I appreciate you chiming in. Just to help in your evaluation, here’s how the Alderaan scene will look in V4, having been brightened up a little: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5UmTwj6Y18
It does look better in this video, but still i’m very not sure about it. I find it more tragic that Anakin killed her (not the “losing the will to live” thing of the original version), because I don’t get at all, within the movie narrative, that she would leave one of her child to people she barely knows without even be part of the meeting to decide it. IMHO the Luke and Leia twin subplot is the weak link of the OT (it was never supposed to be that way back in 1980), the line about the mother is a very small issue compared to others that are raised with the fact that she survived giving birth. To rephrase I would say that I prefer an inconsistency between 2 films over an internal one. Moreover the funeral of Padmé is one of the very well executed scenes in the original cut (even the Jar Jar shot is not a problem). The Padmé surviving the fall of Anakin is the only thing I don’t agree with you in your edit of EPISODE III (plus the removal of the “energy field trap” but your edit of the scene is nevertheless good), I totally concur with the other choices. That being said, It won’t prevent me from watching your V4 anyway 😃
Ok, this new cut is very good. I still need to rewatch a few sequences to be sure about a few things, but for 2 key parts (the pod race - the music montage is clever - and the battle of Naboo) the improvement is stricking: Jar Jar is less annoying, Anakin saves the day purposely; i really like that. I personally would have kept the throne room action scene for continuity reasons. If I can find enough time i’ll try to produce french subtitles so more people can enjoy this cut.
edit: well, i’m not sure about the pod scene just before the betting. The scene itself is quite good and well edited, but the special effets are not finished. Maybe the opening shot on the kid ridding the thing (i don’t know the name) is to be removed. Otherwise it’s afair choice over the original “making podracer” scene. And the complete removal of the “blood sample test” scene is gold 😃
Ok, it’s great to keep it. Especially if we consider that the “real” sequel to Episode III might be ROGUE ONE, as far as we know some elements of the prelogy could be used in it.
Ok, I have watched your v3 edit. It’s a vast improvement over a very strange and fascinating movie (visually astonishing), where key scenes are awfully executed and transitional scenes are actually quite good. The best idea of your edit is the removal of all action material involving Yoda. It’s perfect and the editing is highly profesional. Adding the Seed of Rebellion material is also a very good call.
I’m just confused with a few edit ideas:
at the beginning when Ben, Anakin and Palpatine are taken prisonners to Grievous, it’s very odd to reuse the footage of the elevator scene, because it doesn’t make sens. The original energy field trap seems the best way to conclude the scene, while removing the “battle droid kicks R2” part would be great;
I undestand why you removed the death of Padmé, but in the internal context of the movie it does make sens (moreover Leia doesn’t quite understand Luke’s question about her “real” mother in RETURN OF THE JEDI). The footage from another movie to imply Padmé would still be alive is really distracting, I don’t think it works well. The same goes for the Coruscant shot remplacing the Death Star: I don’t get the point of Palpatine and Tarkin starring at Coruscant from a Star Destroyer ship. The Death Star is totally logical in the original shot.
Besides that, it’s a very good work you’ve accomplished.
A partial feedback (sorry i’m French so there might be a few grammar mistakes below):
good idea to reinstal the senate scene of Amidala. Sadly the picture quality is low and the overall shots of the senators are kinda “frozen/liveless”. On the opening assassination attempt I would have left the captain’s piece of dialogue, because it’s not at all annoying.
the all night assassination scene is slighly better in your edit (the entire sequence stays really stupid but as it is more entertaining it’s a good editing effort). Except for the “kamino system” reveal, as I don’t really mind the Dex cantina sequence. The “Jedi Business” line was funny, I understand why you removed it but it was at least one of the very few badbass lines Anakin had in the prelogy. It’s a very good idea to keep Fett’s involvement in the attempt a final mystery.
the Geonosis droid plant action sure is dull but it has a narrative purpose to show that Amidala and Anakin don’t get caught without a fight. Here in the trial scene they seem too passive, and it’s quite incomprehensible for someone who would have never seen the movie before.
it’s great to keep the sand people massacre sequence, as it is the most important sequence in the entire prelogy. I wonder why you removed the Yoda scene feeling Anakin’s disturbance (maybe you use it in your Episode III edit ?).
i like the fact Yoda doesn’t wield a saber anymore. It suits better the character who is a spiritual warrior, not a muscle warrior. The edit is cleverly made. The duel that occurs a few minutes before also seems more interesting (I guess you’ve removed a few shots to tighten it).
I still need to rewatch a few sequences to complete my feedback (i see you’re planning to release a v4 version, so I’d better wait for it). On the overall this edit is good and it keeps the plot untouched and understandable. I consider Episode II to be the weakest part of the saga, and I welcome every effort to improve it without reducing to half an hour action piece: it will never be a good movie, but at least it can become something watchable. You’re very close to reach this objective, well done !
Seems to be a very interesting edit you’ve achived. I’m not such how well it could really improve the overall plot but removing the most embarrassing bits of dialogues and scenes should at least make it a better experience. As Lucas is not likely to deliver a “Prelogy special edition”, your edit will do the job done.
I’ll try to give you a feedback as soon as I have watched them.