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MagnoliaFan

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7-Jul-2004
Last activity
1-Nov-2011
Posts
376
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http://www.myspace.com/magnoliafan78

Post History

Post
#60764
Topic
MagnoliaFan Edits - "Balance" and "Clone War"
Time
To veer back on course here, to answer a few other questions raised...

Did Vader bring 'Balance to the force' by killing all but two of the Jedi (Obi Wan and Yoda) leaving two Jedi and two Sith (vader and the Emperor) and in effect Luke Skywalker would be the one to potentially upset the Balance of the Force?

In George's version, Vader brought Balance to the Force by killing Palpatine, and destroying the Sith.

In my take on the saga (cue another arguement from Bizzle), from another point of view, they misinterpreted the Prophecy and Anakin brought Balance to the Force by extinguishing the light from the galaxy, which had been so predominant for the past millenia. That's why the Prophecy is never mentioned again in my versions of IV - VI. It's not something that Yoda and Obi-Wan would look back on fondly.


Concerning T3:
When I get what I need I'll forward to you the scenes I'm going to try to integrate. I'm sure you'll do a better job than I can, and your 'take' on the film will definitely be different.


I certainly look forward to checking out whatever it is that you've got. Keep me posted.
Post
#60762
Topic
MagnoliaFan Edits - "Balance" and "Clone War"
Time
As far s the red saber being established by Sith because of Maul and Vader...
There is no Vader. This is Episode II. Only Maul has been seen with one. Hardly a precedent.

And you ask how the Jedi are infighting. If Dooku = Jedi, then a Jedi (Dooku) builds a huge army to topple the Republic. The Jedi defend the Republic. One Jedi and his droid army wipe out the bulk of the Jedi through the Clone Wars, while Sidious just watches and pulls the strings.

If you don't think Nute Gunray is conniving enough to orchestrate this with Sidious, then you obviously never paid attention during my EP I. Most are of the opinion that my Gunray is every bit the equal in the evil department as Vader, Tarkin, and Palpatine.

Unless you're looping new dialogue...

Meaning that you haven't even seen my versions? I kind of figured that.
Well, this arguement is over. I have better things to do than argue with someone trolling for a fight, about a film he's never seen. This is like the film critic in Sacramento who actually had the nerve to say, "I watched the the trailer for the Two Towers... I don't need to see the film. The whole thing is one big video game. One and a half stars."

I'll just score this as two people thus far on these boards who didn't appreciate the edits, versus the rest of the people here who did take some form of enjoyment away from it.
And of the two who voiced not liking anything about them, one never even saw them and really has their mind made up blindly to the point where nothing will ever change it, and the other hated the source material and admitted reshooting them was the only thing that could salvage them.
Really, these edits were made for fans of the OT who didn't like the prequels, to give them a new appreciation for them, not to give prequel gushers something to bitch about. Your precious version is still out there, complete with virgin births, midichlorians, fart jokes, redundant plot, inconsistant pace, that horribly acted and inexplicable love story, and stiff dialogue that yes, in several places has been relooped in my version from production audio and other sources.
Go enjoy it, just as the people here are enjoying mine. Life is too short to waste on senseless arguements over which one is better.
Post
#60738
Topic
MagnoliaFan Edits - "Balance" and "Clone War"
Time
To say Dooku was pure evil leaves a huge gaping problem.
He offerred to spare the Jedi. He gave them a chance to surrender, in exchange for their lives. Neither Maul, Vader, nor especially Sidious would have ever done that for a couple of hostages.

And as for the yellow saber. It doesn't effect anything.
This is the second film in the series. Only Maul has been seen with a red saber, thus far.
There is nothing to support, in this alternate universe, that all Sith must have red sabers.
The "all Jedi use blue or green and all Sith use red" was destroyed the moment Mace Windu ignited his saber, anyway. What is he, a half Sith? Half blue, half red...
At that moment, saber color became cosmetic.

And to actually to compare what happened in EP II to the Vader scene in ESB, what happened in the original EP II was like:

Vader: Obi Wan never told you about your father.
Luke: He told me enough. he told me YOU killed him.
Vader: No. That's not true! That's impossible!

Obi-Wan's ghost appears.

Obi-Wan: No, it is true. Oh, and Leia... She's your sister, by the way.

The prequels seem to have this approach, that in turn is also altering the original trilogy to follow it, that every question is answered five minutes before it is raised and only the characters onscreen are out of the loop. Everything seems to be just going through the motions. The audience already knows the whole puzzle and how it is all going to end, not just in the larger sense, since we have seen Jedi, but in evry aspect of the films.

In the end of Clone War, the Jedi are still just as confused, but they are more divided. Yoda is sure that Dooku is the Sith Master. Mace Windu suspects that he is not and wants to keep an eye out for this "Sidious" and Obi-Wan is on the fence about it. Once again, just like with training Anakin, they are divided and incapable of making a decision. The arguement is more interesting in CW, because we don't know which one of them is right. It leaves the audience room to take sides.
And George's version is the one that is going to be redundant in the end, since the Jedi still don't know for sure that Dooku is a Sith in II, only we do. That means that he is going to have to reveal it all over again in Episode III for the Jedi, unless the Jedi are just left thinking they got the master, until Sidious is revealed. In that case, it works just as well that he was not a Sith...

Personally, I think it is more interesting to think that the Nute Gunray and Palpatine suckered in a Jedi by telling him the truth. The truth turns out to be so outrageous that no one will believe him, and the frustration of screaming the truth in a crowded room and going unheard drives him mad, and he ends out decimating his entire order, all in the name of destroying the Sith... And all the while, all Sidious has to do is sit back and watch. The Jedi do it all for him.
The Jedi's downfall in the end is no different from the Sith's a millenia prior.
They wipe themselves out with their own infighting and the Sith just have to sweep in and play clean up at the end.

I don't think that changes Palpatine's smile in Jedi one bit.
Whether he's thinking, "I can't believe another one is going to try this..." or "I can't believe he has the nerve to try this". Either way, whether from knowledge of the past, or visions of the future, he still thinks he knows how its going to end.
Post
#60683
Topic
MagnoliaFan Edits - "Balance" and "Clone War"
Time
>>[quote]Plus it adds the possibility of Vader, Palpatine, and Luke co-existing as Sith in the OT... a sort of Evil trinity.[/quote]

Not really. That's never a possibility. Return of the Jedi makes that painfully clear. Palps wanted Luke to kill Vader. Palps was fully prepared to let Vader kill Luke. There would never be a possibility of a Evil trinity no matter how you tweaked the prequels.>>


If that was never a possibility, Vader wouldn't have blocked Luke's swing at the Emperor.
WHAM! Sidious is dead, Vader is Emperor, and Luke has turned to the dark side.
Vader seemed to be under the impression that there were going to be three of them, even if it did turn out that Palpatine did intend to repay Vader's betrayal in ESB with one of his own.

>>Also, I think your switch from Dooku DEFINITELY being a sith to being some kind of "maybe-bad-guy/Dark Jedi" easily kneecaps the entire point of the character at the least, and simply makes the mystery about him redundant as well, especially considering his role in Episode III. You have to have his vagueness wrapped up in Episode II, otherwise it creates problems for Episode III. The Yellow Saber ruins that. Hell, it factors into that Return of the Jedi climax as much as anything else--Palpatine's ability to turn Dooku and get him to resign from the Jedi is a main reason he smiles and grins at Vader for suggesting he can turn Luke. you take that away from Dooku by giving him a yellow saber and not outright making him a sith, you completely weaken not only the ESB scene, but the force behind Palpatine's taunts in ROTJ.

The change doesn't kneecap the character at all.
That one scene kneecapped the entire film in Episode II. It took what could have been an interesting cliffhanger mystery and spoonfed you the answer before it was in any way necessary.
It would have been like having Yoda tell Luke that Vader was his father at the end of ESB instead of in Jedi. People argued for three years after ESB that Vader was a liar and not really Luke's father, or that he was a clone of Luke's father, until Jedi resolved it definitely. I have several old magazines from then with articles debating it.
Also, it can still easily be revealed that Dooku is a Sith in Episode III, if I decide to make him one. Likewise, it could just as easily be removed altogether.
It in no way effects the scene in ESB, other than removing contradictory information.
If there were a rule of two in place in Jedi, Vader would have agreed to kill Luke, then hidden him from the Emperor and tried to turn him... and he certainly would NEVER have taken an unturned Luke before the Emperor in Jedi. If Dooku were a Sith, and we know how he ends up in III, Vader wouldn't need to be a rocket scientist to see how that was going to end up.
Also, the Emperor's taunts are totally irrelevant to any of the changes I made. You won't really see how much they mirror a scene in the Prequels until EP III, and its Anakin who is on the recieving end of the taunting then.
Post
#60598
Topic
MagnoliaFan Edits - "Balance" and "Clone War"
Time
That's the first time I've had anyone notice the rule of two change.
There's a few reasons I changed it...

1) The Empire Strikes Back -
"If he could be turned, he would be a powerful ally."
Why the hell would the Emperor agree to Vader saying, "If I killed you, he would be an acceptable replacement"?

2) The Phantom Menace -
According to George, the rule of two went into effect after the Sith were wiped out, which menas, the only way Yoda could possibly know about it would be if he, himself, were the Sith Master.

I just think it makes more sense if Yoda were speaking about the grander scheme of things, like "There is another..."
It's just common sense...
The last Sith wouldn't have waited a thousand years to stick his ass out on the line in an uncertain situation and get killed by a padawan... There has to be more than one.
Plus it adds the possibility of Vader, Palpatine, and Luke co-existing as Sith in the OT... a sort of Evil trinity.
I just think it works better.
Post
#60382
Topic
Deleted Scenes
Time
I'm kinda of the mind that they were Clones for a while, but eventually, Palpatine got tired of spending th money producing more and started to force the people of various worlds into his servitude, so while there are still some of the original clones as storm troopers (ie: the head whacking), there are also a lot of guys who are Joe Blow off the street, who don't want to be there.
It would explain why they are so skilled in EP II, and can't hit the broad side of a barn with an ion cannon by EP IV.
Post
#60336
Topic
MagnoliaFan Edits - "Balance" and "Clone War"
Time
I considered a re-edit of T3, but there was little in the way of deleted scenes on the dvd, despite the fact that much was cut to shorten the film and speed up the pace. If the additional deleted scenes were made available, I would certainly consider it.

And to answer your question concerning the possibility to create photorealistc digital actors by the decades end...
We may be closer than you think...
Post
#60343
Topic
MY Ultimate/Final/Archival Editions
Time
Well, here's my two cents.
A little kinder than others at times, at others a little harsher.

A NEW HOPE
-Insert a faint Imperial March into the 'music-free slot' when Vader looks around the Blockade Runner.

Certainly not in the dead spot, it would drown out Vader's ominous breathing in his first appearance.
If it fit anywhere, it would have to replace the ANH imperial theme that swelled at the end of the scene as he walked past camera with the stormtroopers...
I'm kind of 50/50 on this one.... if in any of the 10,000 places you suggested adding it, it would actually fit, this would be the best one... Still, the scene is fine as it is.

-Clean-up or re-dub both Vader's breathing and dialogue to match the other movies. This really, really bugs me, and is sure to bug me even more when RotS comes out and Vader sounds as clear as ever.

This would turn into a disaster. ("Alert my star destroyer..." )

-Digitally add the tombstones (from AotC) into the Lars Homestead.

Once again, too much work for no real payoff. If there were any shots where you would see it, they would be tiny in the background.

-The activation & color of Luke's lightsaber in Ben's House need to be fixed.

Done... See the 2004 dvd release.

-Insert The Imperial March into first shot of Death Star.

Nah, fine as is...

-Insert The Imperial March into shot of Death Star after the burning homestead scene, and have it continue on into the interrogation scene.

Nope, we don't need unnecessary music drowning out the dialogue.

-Insert a Dug (Sebulba?) into the Cantina; either in the lizardman/wolfman slot or the elephantman/wolfman slot.

There were enough cgi muppets in the prequels for both trilogies already. If anything, remove that goofy arm looking thing and put the Prototype Watto (the elephant guy) over it, across from the wolfman.

-Change arm in Cantina so it has no blood. And make it a hoof to match what we see in the longshots.

It was filmed that way initially and changed to ensure a PG rating instead of a G. See the Lost Cut Version of the Cantina scene over at T Bone's for a look. If they remastered that footage and restored it, I wouldn't object. Just NO new cgi arm that looks like it fell off a cartoon character.

-Show Ben's saber tuning on & off; no more of these off-screen sound effects!

Then you would need new footage of Alec turning on said saber, and I don't trust throwing in digital doubles in the OT. Besides, he turns it on on the Death Star. You can see it then.

-HAN SHOOTS FIRST!

Amen...

-Insert The Imperial March into the shot of the Death Star after the Cantina.

Maybe once in that first scene would be okay, to carry it over, since it was introduced in EP II, and will be in EP III, but we don't need to smear it all over EP IV.

-Change Jabba's voice & appearence to match TPM & RotJ.

Nope, jettison him altogether. According to Marcia Lucas, the editor of EP IV, he was cut because the scene was redundant, not because of effects, and you know what? Effects may have caught up, but the scene is still redundant. Listen to the line "Even I get boarded sometimes... You think I had a choice?" IT'S THE SAME LOOPED AUDIO IN THE GREEDO SCENE!!! How the hell they let the same exact recording of dialogue slip twice into one film is beyond me...

-Insert The Imperial March into the shot of the Death Star over Alderaan.

See above...

-Following that shot, insert a scene with Bail Organa talking to another Rebel Leader via hologram (Ackbar?), possibly about Leia's dissapearance and the Death Star. Then cut to Tarkin lookiing at Alderaan on the viewscreen.

The story moves along tightly as it is... We don't need unnecessary character cluttering things up. Why not have Ric Olie show up and explain to us, "That's the Death Star... The whole thing is one big laser." Ugh...
And Leia wasn't missing... She was dead. Vader ordered it reported that everyone onboard the Tantive IV was killed.

-Insert a shot of the Death Star blocking out the sun on Alderaan, with Bail Organa and other looking up in horror. Then cut to the activation of the superweapon.

Well, as cool as the idea of a Transformers the Movie/ID4 planet-eye view of the destruction would be, and the added gravity of the situation, seeing the people who are about to get blown to dust could come off... It would most likely get mucked up... They'd probably have someone on Alderaan fire off a cannon at the DS, so that it blew up Alderaan in self defense, like Han and Greedo...
I would restore Leia's screaming laid over the shot of the explosion of Alderaan, which is in the Pre ANH version's sound mix though. It made her a little more human.

-Fix the activation, deactivation, and color of Luke's saber on the Falcon. It's freakin' WHITE!

Yeah, I agree with fixing the saber effects... especially since I hear they left this scene screwed up on the dvd.

-Change the seeker ball to CG (like in AotC).

Nope, you can see infinitely more detail on a model.

-In the scene where the dude comes in and says the Rebels are on Dantooine, change the timing of Vader's line to match his gesture.

Actually Vader gestures because he had additional dialogue that was cut. Either restore the dialogue, or I'm not entrely against altering the footage to prevent Vader from gesturing. If you isolate just Vader's image after he is done speaking and slow down the speed of his footage and overlay it over the original scene, it will fix the problem.
I did similar work in Balance and CW.

-MAYBE insert a scene where Vader reports to the Emperor after detecting Obi-Wan. It makes perfect sense that he would contact Palpatine after storming off ("I sense something, a presence I've not felt since..."). Then have Palpatine tell Vader to be wary and inform Tarkin (He is here...).

No! I really don't like adding Palpatine to ANH. He's already there in spirit, when they mention dissolving the Senate.
If you were to add him at all, I would have him not give Tarkin permission to test the DS on Alderaan.
Attacking an unarmed planet would bring sympathy for the Rebellion, something already once referenced to as being a thing the Empire wants to avoid. Plus it would make Tarkin much more of a threatening character, blatantly taking matters into his own hands and defying the Emperor. Then again, if he openly defied the Emeror in front of Vader, Vader would probably just force choke him into submission...
It's best left alone.

-Insert a faint Imperial March when Vader is walking through the Death Star halls.

See above..

-Make the Diaogna look more realistic.

Done. See 2004 dvd release.

-Re-dub all the Stormtrooper lines with Temura Morrrison. This goes for the whole trilogy, including Boba.

No! They already screwed up Boba for the new dvd.
I'm glad they left the Troopers alone, and irritated that I have to go back and redub Boba to the original voice as it is... Twins can have slightly different voices... So can clones.
I might dig through some of the alternate Pre ANH Stormtrooper, Imperial, and even Luke dialogue and use some different takes from the original version, though. No changes like "You were lucky to get out of there." though. Ugh...

-Improve the Vader/Kenobi duel. Some dramatic music (possibly the same from their SW3 duel?) would be nice. Also, fix saber effects (both optical and audio) so they match the other films. The saber effetcs are really bad, and the sounds of this duel are WAY different from the others.

No, we don't need a digital Vader
Post
#59780
Topic
Star Wars - The Edits and DVDr releases thread
Time
I've gone ahead and sent the email address your way.
I just wanted to make sure they got credit, as I know I wasn't exactly pleased recently when I found out some hack tried to steal CW, lop off the crawl and change back to the original film from the duel on and pass it off as his own new edit of AotC... and of course couldn't even explain how even the most basic of changes through the rest of the film were made...
Post
#59773
Topic
Star Wars - The Edits and DVDr releases thread
Time
Thanks Rikter,
Just wanted to give credit where credit was due, and avoid potential contraversy later. I know who one of the three people were who made TPRE, if you want to contact him. I'll PM you his email. I also have a 4th or 5th gen vhs of TPRE, as you can see the changes feature on the disc (showing the before and after on the two shots where the footage was unavailable), from if you want to see it.
Post
#59767
Topic
Star Wars - The Edits and DVDr releases thread
Time
One little thing I wanted to do is to chime in about is a few little inaccuracies is the above description of "The Phantom Re-Edit 1.2".
I couldn't really consider it a re-Edit of a re-Edit, as I took no real creative liberties in the edit. The only changes that were made involved two shots that were removed from the dvd version and were thusly not available in dvd quality, and a before/after feature was provided to show how minimal those changes were.
I'm just not sure how I feel about credit being taken away fromt he original editors on this project, as what I did was more of a restoration or a remaster job. That's why I didn't put Magnoliafan on the disc itself.
I don't mind being credited with cleaning it up and restoring it, but credit should be given where it is due to the original editors, as it is their vision preserved on the disc, not my own. I see myself being credited witht he actual edit akin to if THX were to be given credit for creating the original trilogy when they remastered it in the 90s.
I just figured that the "Phantom Re-Edit/TPE1.2" was so hard to find on VHS, and always in such shoddy quality, that I'd take a couple days and go back and clean it up so that everyone could get to see it in a more presentable version.
Also, there was no real title change. The original Phantom Re-Edit was always known as either "The Phantom Re-Edit", "The Phantom Edit 1.2", or "The Phantom Edit New York Version".
I didn't really call it "The Phantom Re-Edit 1.2" to specify that it was different from the "Phantom Edit 1.2", I just lumped both names together to avoid confusion as to what it was.
Anyway, that's my 2 cents on the subject...
Post
#59480
Topic
The Forgotten Scenes
Time
I'll check it out and see what I can do...
Hell, I found a still photo from a cut shot in Jedi that I actually found a way to reincorporate into the film, so who knows. Anything is possible.

I had been infuriatingly held up all week by software issues with my computer.
My friend kept insisting I updae a bunch of software on my mac and when I did, it killed all of my mpeg-2 exporting capabilities!!!
(cue heart failure)

I finally got it up and running again, differently but likely better, about 2 minutes ago.
Post
#59374
Topic
Star Wars - The Edits and DVDr releases thread
Time
I guess I'll answer a few things here at once...
We don't hear aliens cursing in the OT, just Han, Uncle Owen and Obi-Wan Kenobi...
Whie it had marginally more mild profanity than the OT, I don't really see anything wrong with it.
By 80's standards, Balance would still have easily gotten a PG rating when compared to films like Back to the Future which had loads of cursing and still slid in with one.
Really, you just have to consider the source...
Had Qui-gon or Obi-wan been cursing at Anakin, yeah, I agree that would have been totally inappropriate, but this was coming from a character who claimed he saved Qui-Gon's life, took credit for saving the queen, fell asleep on the job and let his people's most sacred relic be stolen, mouthed off at Anakin for saving him from Sebulba, and when offerred shelter by Anakin from a vicious sandstorm can only complain that Anakin's home is a dump. I think it had been established by that point in the film that something like cursing a mild profanity was in no way beneath him. Its not like he went around dropping f bombs.
Contrary to the belief of some, I actually went back and changed Jar Jar's personality late into the edit to make it feel more like the original trilogy. When I made Jar Jar into a serious character, it made the film really bland and dull, really quickly.
The film needed a Han Solo type character to foil all the serious characters. It's like the 3rd draft of SW where Han was a liar pretending to be pilot when he was in fact a cabin boy. He did not own the falcon, but got Jabba and co drunk and stole it from them. Basically, Jar Jar is that same harsh, cocky type of character. He just doesn't back up his words with actions, unlike Han.

Next, the ever constant question of what the film was edited on...
I know I already answered this question on here once somewhere, but I can't recall where, so I'll cover it again.
The m2v files were ripped from the dvd and edited directly on Final Cut Pro 2 Blue (which gives you an idea how long ago this was made). I also used Adobe after effects 5.5 for the crawl and Photoshop for some of the frame by frame stuff.
I think a lot of people have this impression that I had all this pro equipment and a massive supercomputer or something.
Really, it wasn't a case of having limitless technology at my disposal... The whole thing was done on a Mac G4 800.
I didn't even know how to use any of the programs when I stared. I just took down notes on what I wanted to do, asked my friend who did know a thing or two about the programs if it coudl be done, he always replied "No way in hell..." or something to the effect, and then I had to figure out a way to do it on my own.
It was basically a grand experiment in just how much I could get away with editing wise, which turned out to be a lot more than I really expected. I just figured, the more I figured out how to do editorially under such limited conditions (ie: one take for every scene, no access to the source material) would help me gauge how much more I could pull off eventually with my own material.
Post
#59003
Topic
Star Wars - The Edits and DVDr releases thread
Time
Honestly, I haven't done the OT edits yet.
I've just toyed with a few shots in the computer here.
I can say that the changes will be subtle for the most part, a hybrid of OT and 2004 versions, with a few other mistakes fixed that weren't corrected in either verson.
There may be a few minor plot adjustments, to preserve some of the surprises of the OT and the flow of all 6 as a series, but nothing drastic along the lines of Balance.