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Laserman

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11-May-2004
Last activity
6-Sep-2007
Posts
903

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Post
#263808
Topic
Info Wanted: Question about 1980 uncut Empire
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/263808/action/topic#263808
Time
You may want to check this out:
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=98195&page=1

But my guess is it is a combination of what happens re the article and some actual scenes that were in that print and no other.

The SW trilogies were in high demand, so when that happens typically you end up with a few different cuts running around as various edits get frantically pulled from the shelves to strike another set of prints to keep up with demand. This can happen because the current 'master' is already somewhere else and they need, say another 30 prints for Canada and there is a less than perfect but usuable edit sitting there that could be used.

So I'd guess that some of the scenes you remember are as a result of trailers/advertising/other stuff that you saw since seeing it in 1980 and some were actually there.

When I got my first copy of Star Wars I was disappointed with the scene where Luke is trying to convince Han to rescue Leia. I remembered the dialogue as something like.

Luke: "She's Beautiful"
Han: "yeah, So's life kid"
Luke changes tack: "She's Rich"

When I got my copy, the "She's beautiful" exchange was missing, much I thought to the detriment of the scene. I thought maybe Australia had a different print or something. However no-one else remembered seeing that piece of dialogue, and I couldn't find a single mention of it on the net, so I thought I was nuts.

Then when the SE DVD came out, a guy in the US posts to a board "Does anyone remember Luke trying to get Han to rescue Leia by saying "She's Beautiful" and him replying "So is life kid" before trying the "She's Rich" line.
Nobody on the board did, and in fact they ridiculed him and said it was all in his mind.

Now the chances of two people on different continents remembering the exact same exchange word for word seems beyond statistical probability. This isn't an interperatation of an image, it is actual dialogue, and would be an odd thing for two different people to invent.

So it was either in an early version, or was in a trailer or something somewhere, but I still haven't found it, or even another mention of it *anywhere*.

So you could be right, some of that stuff may have been in your print, but chances are some of it are manufactured memory. (Hiya Bugs old buddy)


Post
#262920
Topic
Merry X0mas and a Happy New Year!
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/262920/action/topic#262920
Time
I actually started this thread to find out what everyone was doing over the break!

We can post a short clip in Jan, probably of this piece and a couple of others.

It annoys me to that GL didn't just do a new transfer based on the restored footage, this shot is a prime example, they *must* have restored the original footage to be able to create the new shot, which would be the case for 99.9% of the trilogy, it would not have been much of an ask to release a decent OT transfer, as it is we have to cobble it back together as best we can, squeezing as much as possible from the relatively low quality sources available.
It took months to do just this scene, (and it still has some distortion problems) and it is frustrating to know that they have it at Lucasfilm anyway...

But anyway, what are you OTers all up to over the holidays?
Post
#262277
Topic
Is it safe to modify a capture card?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/262277/action/topic#262277
Time
If anything it will reduce interference and ghosting to add a BNC connector to the card.

You get an impedence mismatch when using an adapter plug.

It is easy to mod a card to have a BNC input, just make sure of three things.

1) The BNC connector you buy is actually 75ohms for video and not 50ohms for networking.
2) You use mini coax to solder it to the board, bluejean sells mini coax or you can cut open an old monitor cord.
3) the BNC connector is isolated from the backplane, you don't want two separate earth paths.

The hardest part is drilling the dirty great hole in the metal backplane to mount it, you will need to centre punch the hole or the drill will walk all over the place.
Post
#262276
Topic
Anyone Hi8 Experts
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/262276/action/topic#262276
Time
Originally posted by: Knightmessenger
I don't believe I can calibrate my capture card (Pyro A/V converter from ADS.) And I can't generate color bars with a Hi8 camcorder unless there is a Hi8 tape containing them somewhere. Where could I get the video essentials dvd? Would it be easy to record to vhs (or Hi8 if I got a vcr) or is that dvd copy protected?
I'm also a bit unsure of what to do about capturing. I don't want my video to be compressed but I don't think I can handle using up 8 times as much hard drive space than before. (If 30 min = 80 GB) What other options would I have? I wouldn't want any capture method that compresses by smearing detail or pixelizing. Is there anything very close to uncompressed quality that takes up WAY less space.


Huffyuv averages about 4:1 or thereabouts, and as long as you have a reasonable PC it will do it in realtime. You really want to capture to a drive that is not your boot drive though for trouble free captures. It is a lossless codec, so think of it like .zip or .rar, it compresses the file without discarding any information at all.

If you can't calibrate your current capture system you can at least correct the levels after you capture, a really quick example is here with the two football images you posted where you thought the VHS image looked better than the Hi8 one.

A very quick levels adjustment and the hi8 image is now obviously far better than the VHS, the Hi8 images just needed to have their levels reset. (I had to use Gimp on the library computer so this is just a quick example)

Hi8 image
http://www.mudgee.net/ot/football2.png


VHS image
http://www.mudgee.net/ot/footballvhs.png


As for detail, to prove the point take a look at a closeup of the two faces. The VHS is on the leftt and the Hi8 is on the right

http://www.mudgee.net/ot/faces.png
The poor bugger on the left doesn't even have a mouth!

As for the video essentials DVD you can buy it anywhere, any online DVD retailer will have it, as will a lot of bricks and mortar DVD stores. I don't know if it is macrovision protected or not, I've never tried to tape it.
Post
#261082
Topic
Anyone Hi8 Experts
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/261082/action/topic#261082
Time
The difference is all in your calibration, the only reason the VHS ones look more '3D' is that the levels are closer to what they should be. You really need to calibrate your SVIDEO capture - can your camera create colourbars?
When calibrated the Hi8 pics look much more '3D' and have better colours and far more detail than the VHS pics, you can tell just by looking at them as is.

Also the missing 'dots' on the VHS copy are just missing detail, it is obvious from those pictures that the VHS copies have a *severe* detail loss compared to the Hi8 ones, if you blurred the crap out of the Hi8 captures to make them equal then the dots will disappear from the Hi-8 pictures as well (along with all the detail just like the VHS shots posted)
Post
#261058
Topic
.: The XØ Project - Laserdisc on Steroids :. (SEE FIRST POST FOR UPDATES) (* unfinished project *)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/261058/action/topic#261058
Time
Originally posted by: Knightmessenger
I guess what I was wondering was how the orange blur only appears under the speeder. Was that not the vasoline but really drawn in by hand. I'd love to see a reel of the different elements of the shot.
And "feeding it back for final CC and authoring." What does CC mean? And does that also mean... Star Wars is close to being finished?


CC is Colour Correction, we have been using parts of various film prints as our guide to reduce the guesswork when it comes to this.

ANH is nearing completion as much as getting the shots completed, we are at the stage of having to balance between eternal tweaking and just getting it done. It is hard to sign off on a shot when you know it could be better, but there comes a point where you need to - we can't work on it forever.
Even from there though it still needs to be CC'd and reviewed and then authored to DVD.
I don't really have an ETA or a feel for one at the moment, I'm without a computer until I can source a replacement, and the internet cafe doesn't really have the resources required
Once Zion gets into his digs and the discs I've posted to him get over to the US then we will have a better idea of how far we have to go.
Post
#260392
Topic
Issue with Premiere Pro7.0
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/260392/action/topic#260392
Time
Errrm, a bit more information will be needed.
Have you got the latest updates from adobe?
You are most likely trying to load a file that uses an unsupported codec.

To check if Premiere is broken - Try creating a video in Premiere, say the inbuilt adobe 10-1 countdown and render and save it out.
Then try loading *that* file and see if that works OK and get back to us.

Also try loading the tutorial files that come with the program when you bought it, if those don't load something is wrong.
Post
#260302
Topic
Paint Wars: A New Hope
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/260302/action/topic#260302
Time
I totally understand Zig, what starts off as a bit of fun can turn into a chore after a while, especially when the enormity of the task starts to sink in. (I reckon a minimum of 1000 drawings would have been required to finish it)
One thing I learned is to try not to 'think out loud' on the boards. I flip flop daily between total motivation and confidence to despair and back again, but I tend to post when I am in my motivated mood.

Thanks for what you did so far, it was a lot of fun to get a different spin on the whole SW thing, and if you ever get bored again feel free to do some more
Post
#259710
Topic
The Prequel Trilogy 'as one movie' Edit - Released
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/259710/action/topic#259710
Time
Originally posted by: GhostAlpha26
Originally posted by: Johnny Ringo


An intermission may have to be in order since compiled together all there movies would be 6.5/7 GB and DL discs are too expensive. I could compress them but I think the quality would suffer too much then.

Well, Verbatim Dual Layer printable8x discs are around US$2 - $3 each, so it isn't really that expensive to have a set.

Sure DL discs are pricey compared to single layer, but you could have 3 movies on a dual layer disc *each* for ten bucks total; hardly going to send anyone to the poorhouse.

Post
#259709
Topic
STAR WARS: EP IV 2004 <strong>REVISITED</strong> ADYWAN *<em>1080p HD VERSION NOW IN PRODUCTION</em>
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/259709/action/topic#259709
Time
Originally posted by: darthbeej
I think the animation Adywan has done for the cantina scene is great as it is! Rememeber they are ALIENS so may not move exactly like humans! Some movement/manipulation is better than no movement/rubber masks.


Yep they are aliens, so you have a free run with them blinking sideways, or eating through their ears etc. and it seems unlikely that aliens would have faces that have no movement at all (as in the original trilogy), but seems equally unlikely that certain races would be chronic over actors.

I love the whole concept, I think the couple of glares from characters and the greedo blinks and extra emotion is excellent, but needs to be subtle. As an effects artist you want people to *not* notice the effect at the end of the day, it should just look totally natural and create belief in the setup.

It is a normal part of the process, you put the effects in and you play it back and then after watching it a few times you start to tone it down, then after coming back to it after a while you tone it down further and eventually it becomes more natural.

Kind of like the SE's, at first viewing the extra saturation and detail has a wow factor, but on subsequent viewings the oversaturated and overly contrasty scenes start to grate on the eye. Slightly overemphasized effects can be the same.

Seriously though, the kind of thing that adywan is doing is exactly the type of enhancement ILM should have been focussed on when revisiting the OT, this is the most promising re-working of the OT I've seen in ages.

Post
#259497
Topic
What PAL/NTSC Laserdisc players would you recommend me?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/259497/action/topic#259497
Time
Originally posted by: Knightmessenger
Did the X0 team test out as many laserdisc players as they could find? How many did you test?Or was it already known that the X0 is the best? Have you thought about sending a rating list to the LD database or something?
I know sometimes you tell by just looking that one playback device (laserdisc, dvd, vcr and others) is better than another but what would you do with the ones that were really close? Are there any photo editing tools that could highlight a slight difference? I know from the X0 site that cranking up the saturation is one. I took screencaps of the exact same frame from 3 different Hi8 cameras using s-video with each. Although they don't look exactly the same, I really can't tell if one camera capture is better than the other.


We did test a lot of players I personally checked the X0 against the X9, and we have looked at the 95, 97, 99, 704, most of the elite series, the V800, the V8000 the V4300D, the CLD-925, the CLD-2950 and a piece of crap Sony.

If you want to test players you need a few items.

1) A really good capture card - you don't want the capture card giving you problems.
2) The Video Essentials laserdisc.

Then you can capture test patterns like standard colourbars, S&W etc. and you can check resolution, colour reproduction, cross talk etc. in an empirical way. You can also calibrate your system to make sure the image is a good as you can get it.

Basically the 4300D and V8000, V800 outperformed all of the consumer LD playes we checked, the X9 was better but the X0 outperformed them all.
For capture I wouldn't bother with any of the consumer models.

Post
#259419
Topic
STAR WARS: EP IV 2004 <strong>REVISITED</strong> ADYWAN *<em>1080p HD VERSION NOW IN PRODUCTION</em>
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/259419/action/topic#259419
Time
GREAT WORK!

I think some of the facial movements need toning down a bit or it gets too cartoony, but the overall direction is really good and goes someway to solving a real sore spot with the original scene. As Mark Hamill stated the script calls for this amazing array of alien life, but the scene as it was delivered felt like a bad masquerade party, adding some expression to the creatures was something I tried before but was never happy with the results as the warps caused texture smearing because of the lo rez source material.
That is evident too in some of these, I'd suggest using a HD grab to do the warps and additions and then scale it back to DVD for the final result. That way the warps are less obvious and the detail lost in smearing is far less.
I'd like to see your additions toned down a bit, but no doubt every single person will have a different opinion on any and every clip you post, so don't worry too much and make it the way *you* want it.
Really great stuff though, relatively small and subtle tweaks is what I was hoping for when the SEs were announced, instead we got ham fisted CG injections, this is much closer to the type of effect additions I was hoping to see from them, and as seems to be the case these days, the fans are picking up the ball where Lucas droppped it.
Post
#259184
Topic
What PAL/NTSC Laserdisc players would you recommend me?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/259184/action/topic#259184
Time
We actually tested both units, the output is very very similar for NTSC, in fact you can barely tell the difference even on the video essentials test pattern DVD.
I would rate the composite BNC output of the V800 better than any of the NTSC laserdisc players except the X9 and the X0.
Functionality wise (home user type features) the industrial players leave a lot to be desired, but picture quality wise they are excellent.

The only reason to go for a 4300D over the V800 would be if you had PAL discs to watch.
Post
#258832
Topic
What PAL/NTSC Laserdisc players would you recommend me?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/258832/action/topic#258832
Time
The BNC connector on the V800 delivers the signal on a straight through path. Most of the players with BNC outputs have a 'pure' composite signal on the BNC output, and the 'messed with' composite signal on the RCA output, so even apart form the better impedence properties of the BNC connector, often the signal path to get to the connector is totally different (i.e. straight through for BNC)
Post
#258831
Topic
What PAL/NTSC Laserdisc players would you recommend me?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/258831/action/topic#258831
Time
Not easy no, it added a lot of complexity to the players, the discs spin at different speeds, the modulation is different and the decoders are different, so for an NTSC market that had basically no TVs that could display a PAL signal and almost no PAL laserdiscs released in comparison, it is not surprising that the US would have no interest in a hybrid player.

I'd get the v800 over the V8000, as I said there is no way to make an RCA connector be a true 75 ohm impedence, whereas the BNC connector is perfect.

As far as PAL players go, if you intend actually watching movies on it as well, get a 925, it has the RF output (the 2950 does not and you have to mod the laserdisc player internally to get it to do so).

If capture is all you are interested in then get the industrial V4300D.