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Laserman

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Join date
11-May-2004
Last activity
6-Sep-2007
Posts
903

Post History

Post
#62861
Topic
Info: OT Bootleg DVDs
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/62861/action/topic#62861
Time
I'd like to know where anyone is getting dual layer media for $4.50!!!
The cheapest I can get is AUD$12 for mitsubishi DL blanks, and I only pay AUD$0.50c for Princo SL DVD-r and AUD$0.75c for ridata, so the dual layer cost seems to come from a galaxy far far away...
Please share your source of such stupendously cheap media!
Post
#62028
Topic
Info: OT Bootleg DVDs
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/62028/action/topic#62028
Time
You don't want to de-interlace if you are aiming for a DVD release. Most de-interlace filters throw away half the information, and interpolate.

What you want to do is to try and reconstitute the original 24fps progressive frames, by doing a true 3:2 pulldown, and fixing any dodgy frames. Then you can encode the DVD as FILM 24fps Progressive, and people with HDTV sets and progressive DVD players will get an awesome experience, and people with normal DVD players and normal TVs will get a normal experience anyway (as their player will turn it back into an interlaced signal for DVD)

Post
#61012
Topic
Info: OT Bootleg DVDs
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/61012/action/topic#61012
Time
With the right colour correction tools you can get the sky black without loosing the other shadow detail (You correct only the area of the image in question, not the whole frame), its easy on my inferno, not so sure on the PC, although something like Discreet combustion should do the trick.
I know nothing of Vegas, and whether it is getting the frame rates right. PM me your details, and I'll send a disc off to you to compare.


To the guy with the 8mm camcorder, the problem is tour camcorder really. You really have to go DV, otherwise a MAC, a PC, an SGI workstation isn't really going to help. DV makes it sooo easy, and no qualtiy loss.

If you are into making short films, go get a basic DV camera with a decent lens, and an external mike option (all the other features are useless really) and yeah, grab a mac, an e-mac or ibook is a great deal and comes with everything you need to do pretty good edits right out of the box, and it just works every time..

Mebejedi, PM me, maybe I can set you up with a better set of tools?
Post
#60980
Topic
Info: OT Bootleg DVDs
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/60980/action/topic#60980
Time
Hey mebejedi, its looking good!
Have you done a compare of the footage through your card vs through your camcorder just out of interest?

If you like I will send you a bootleg DVD for nuffin so you can compare your results to what is already out there.

It does look a little light compared to the LD, but you should always play it back thorugh a calibrated TV monitor from DVD to see what it 'really' looks like.
It's hard to get the colour right, what software are you using to adjust it?
Post
#59987
Topic
Info: OT Bootleg DVDs
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/59987/action/topic#59987
Time
I'm masking out the boarders during the capture process.


Mebejedi, what software are you using to capture. It looks as if the field registration is off when capturing. You do want to capture the fields for the best quality image, then later reconstruct the progressive frames via 3:2 pulldown.

If you use the lossless codec I mentioned, your file will be less than half its current size, and it can capture and playback in realtime no worries.
Post
#59933
Topic
Info: OT Bootleg DVDs
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/59933/action/topic#59933
Time
Mebejedi, try capturing at 720 x 480 if you want it to look correct on the final DVD.

For all of you intereseted in the PAL/NTSC thing, this is a good article for the non technical of out there
http://www.michaeldvd.com.au/Articles/PALvsNTSC/PALvsNTSC.asp

On the topic of the 4% speedup, I run all my DVD's through a PC with reclock, so PAL ones run at 24fps (@ 72Hz) with the correct sound, for that pitch perfect movie watching experience.
Post
#59927
Topic
Info: OT Bootleg DVDs
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/59927/action/topic#59927
Time
Good job mebejedi. Yeah my captures are about 360GB each, it makes for a lot of disc space handling when doing the menu creations etc.

You probably should have captured it at actual LD resolution though, your card should be capable of that, so I'd give it another go in you have another 30GB of disc space.

There are a number of lossless codecs on the market that will give you a lower file size with zero quality loss. You can use hufyy, but grab an older version, the latest is a crachfest, or the one frome http://www.alparysoft.com/prod/compression/index.php
They require you to register it, but it is totally free.

It will be interesting to compare your version with the current bootlegs.
What are you going to use to encode it to DVD-9?

Something else I have been toying with is doing a WMV-9 set for PC users as it is noticably better quality than DVD at the same compression levels.
Post
#59301
Topic
Info: OT Bootleg DVDs
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/59301/action/topic#59301
Time
After looking at the (lack of) quality of the exisiting DVD-5 sets I thought an archival set mastered from the LD was important. Plus it gives me something to do until the DVD release.
Depending on what the dvd release is like, and how messed up he makes it, I am still keen to do a despecialised edition
But it will be after I finish these.

(no disrespect to the exisiting bootlegs, their problems are mostly due the low bitrate ncessary to fit it all on one layer, but they aren't a patch on the laserdisc originals.)
Post
#59114
Topic
Info: OT Bootleg DVDs
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/59114/action/topic#59114
Time
Well capturing it to an uncompressed master will be easier, but then encoding it down to DVD-9 is a time consuming process if you want it done right. Its the scene by scene checking and tweaking that takes forever, and I am doing it between work projects (Usually during render wander) so it takes a lotta time.
Post
#59056
Topic
Info: OT Bootleg DVDs
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/59056/action/topic#59056
Time
To those wondering about my set, it is progressing - slowly.

I have a perfect uncompressed RGB capture of ANH, and it looks better than it looks on my pioneer elite laserdisc. So far so good.
I am now going through the process of checking, colour grading and then encoding it.

The encode is tricky and I will be doing quite a bit of manual work on it, so probably another month or 2. I want it to be indistinguishable from the LD version.
Then I will move onto esb and rotj.
So it will be a little while, but I am hopeful that it will be a true archive of the films for posterity.
Post
#53989
Topic
Info: OT Bootleg DVDs
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/53989/action/topic#53989
Time
Hey HAL 9000, that is pretty much my 2nd thing to do. I have just finishd archiving the LDs to uncompressed datastor via RGB and composite. Now the pain of going through them looking for capture problems, and de-hazing the footage.

Once the SE's come out, then yeah, I am going to make a 'halfway edition' as you call it, for my own personal use of course.
I feel the same, leave in what is fixed and doesn't look all cg like, and remove or replace anything I find offensive.
Just a cleaned up edition really. I think that is all a lot of people really wanted Lucas to do!

Post
#53311
Topic
Info: OT Bootleg DVDs
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/53311/action/topic#53311
Time
One other consideration, laserdiscs actually have the image stored in 'composite video' so the laserdisc player is doing the conversion to SVideo (Y/c) or to RGB. If your player does a really bad job of it, then the composite output may actually give you a better image than the SVideo output. It is totally dependant on the quality of the YC separater circuit in the unit,
This is a quote from a review of one of the few retail players with RGB out. The Sony 533D.

The RGB output does have certain advantages in NTSC in that it acts like a Y/C (S-output) might and cleans up the spurious colour side effects of the signal. Cross-colour - the colour 'rainbow' effect on areas of fine detail - and cross-luminance - the crawling colour dot move­ment on sharp vertical edges - are all suppressed in the RGB mode. On the Sony test disc Tune-Up A.V. there is a specific resolution grating in Chapter 4 to show the worst effects of cross-colour. On a conventional composite output into a non comb-filter TV the grating is invisible as it is obscured by a mass of coloured dashes. The 533D, via its RGB output, reproduces this grating perfectly, with no false colour information whatsoever. This sort of performance should be attainable with a TV containing a comb-filter, but that Tune-Up A.V. grid has been previously tried on a conven­tional player through a comb-filter NTSC TV and the suppression of the cross-colour was nowhere near as effective. Without doubt, the 533D playing NTSC discs in RGB mode produces much cleaner images than via the composite output.
Post
#53310
Topic
Info: OT Bootleg DVDs
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/53310/action/topic#53310
Time
The biggest problem you have is that S-Video suffers from dot crawl, and it is especially bad with NTSC source material at the red end of the spectrum. Composite video suffers even more, but it is still there on the SVideo output.
The other problem you have is the relatively awful capture capabilities built into gforce/radeon cards etc. The video input side has a really noisy video path, and quite often unbalanced causing dot crawl, ringing, and introducing video noise. They really are only good for tivo like duties, they are just plain awful for video mastering.

Dot crawl shows up much more when viewed on the PC simply because the PC monitor is higher rez and sharper. Some TVs also have digital comb filters to remove some of the dot crawl, so you don't see it as much on the TV, but you do lose some detail.

If you want to get really good results, you should pick up a dedicated capture card like one from Targa (Targa 2000 series for example) which have much cleaner video paths on the input side. They are quite often available cheap 2nd hand. Use a very short and reasonable quality svideo cable.

For optimum results, crack open your laserdisc player and mount some BNC connectors on the back. then run the Y and C outputs to 75ohm BNC connectors with mini coax, and use 75ohm coax cable (times 2) to your capture card (assuming you have one with coax inputs like the targas). This will give you a much better image. Ensure both cables are identical length or you will get chroma shift.

Better still, get a player with RGB out. Some european models had it on the scart output, and many industrial/broadcast models had it. You would not believe how much better the picture looks in RGB, much better colour and almost no crawl at all. Very nice.
Post
#53137
Topic
Info: OT Bootleg DVDs
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/53137/action/topic#53137
Time
That is exactly what I intend to do - make a de-specialed special edition. Depending on how whacked out the SE DVD's turn out to be.
With the gear and expertise we have, it should be possible to integrate the LD footage back in and colour grade it to fit without a really noticable change. The obvious way to do this is to insert footage at cut points, so that although you may end up inserting a little more footage than is required, it comes in and out at a cut point so is not as noticable.
I am hoping that the audio mix on the SE will be a lot better, in which case I will be keeping it and only adding/removing audio as required.

I am also doing an 'archival' version of the LD's, which will be pretty much just a straight copy with a mild colour grade at the highest possible quality, (with the missing lei footage) with no extras, no additional audio tracks etc. Just the movies at the highest bitrate possible. Am Also toying with doing a WMV9 version for PC playback, as the quality would be better, and there are some WMV9 players coming onto the home player market as well.
Post
#52912
Topic
Info: OT Bootleg DVDs
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/52912/action/topic#52912
Time
You get twice as much space, so you images are only compressed by half as much.

It can potentially improve it to the point where you will see no difference to the original laserdiscs. Effectively if you made a dual layer version of just the movie and just the original PCM audio track, then the images will be compressed by less than half what they are on the current bootlegs. This translates into much better detail rendition, less blockiness in fast moving/panning scenes, less noise in the images etc.

You can see the problems in the current bootlegs in scenes like when luke opens the X-wing cockpit in jedi, look at the detail in the xwing it is lost in the mpeg blocking.

The images also need a slight colour correction as the colour rendition on the laserdisc set is a little off.