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Klingon_Jedi

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19-May-2004
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27-Sep-2013
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Post
#56221
Topic
Anyone want to comment on new DVD release for magazine article?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/56221/action/topic#56221
Time
I'm not purchasing the DVD either. Restoration or not, my videos look just fine. I've been a Star Wars fan for as long as I can remember. I've seen them several times, can qoute them, and have read most of the novels. In 1997, I saw the SEs the day each came out, and was thrilled to see them on the big screen for the first time. Afterwards however, I started to think about what I liked about the films. Part of it is the work that went into the special effects. This was now replaced with half-assed CGI. Windows in Cloud City reverting back to normal come an angle change, CGI X-Wings captured from the same model, so that now every one of them looked the same in paintjob, droid, and rust. A Massassi temple outpost now right next to the hanger, which is now giving the impression that its the same day the Falcon arraived, instead of the next morning, as the novels state. Even a pan shot gives the impression that the Death Star is right in front of Yavin 4. All the poorly done special effects like the new Jabba the Hutt and cartoonish Sy Snootles give the films an unfinished feel. Its like ILM was only testing some software, not truly trying to improve on something that only needed restoration. What's worse is the things left unchanged: the inaccurate Death Star plans, Luke getting into an X-wing with a solid red stripe, then seen flying one with a broken stripe, the matt line on the Rancor, Luke's saber being near colorless on the Falcon. Nitpicking to be sure, but valid points on something that was supposed to fix the broken.

There's also changes in the feel of some scenes and characters. Greedo shots first, making Han seems like someone who couldn't see a simple blaster shot coming. Jabba in ANH is almost completely out of character, the scene does nothing to advance the plot, nor does it add to the relationship of the two. Mos Eisley itself is made to feel like a bustling spaceport, like the small hub on a backwater planet it should be. It's like having a city like New York located in the middle of no-where. Cloud City's expansion led only to more useless establishing shot and unfinished special effects. The new Wampa not only removes some of the tension in the scene, but adds a plot hole due to the fact that lightsabers cautuarize wounds, yet it now has a bloody stump. Worse is Vader leaving Bespin. the fast paced music over his old line that fits the scene weel is replaced with a slower version. Vader doesn't seem as angered as he was before. To add insult to injury there is then a series of scenes of him returning to his ship which break the suspense of the Falcon's escape. Finally, you have a children's dance number at the start of RotJ, a Sarlaac that looks like it was ripped off from Little Shop of Horrors, and a celebration scene featuring planets which neither cared for the war nor would they celebrate the Emperor's death. This goes doubly so for Coruscant, an Imperial hotbed, and unrecognizable at the time of the SE's release to anyone unfamilar with the novels.

What's worse is the rift between fans. Fans like myself, who love the trilogy as is, often find ourselves the subject of disgust with our SE brethren. Often we'll called "Lucas haters" and are told we can't let go of the past. We are often likened as "Prequel haters" as well, and that Lucas "can't do anything right" in our eyes. This is untrue, as I, and others like me, enjoy the prequels as well, and see them as having nothing to do with liking the SE. Granted, we ourselves can make fun of the SE fans, calling them "sheep" and "lap dogs", and both sides are wrong for their transgretions. On sites like TheForce.net, SE fan forum goers can't understand why we don't see what we believe to be an inferior product, for whatever reason, as the same movie. Others liken CGI as automatically superior, hence they think us odd that we disagree. No one is open to the ideal of letting by-gones be by-gones. None can offer an excuse as to why Lucas withholds the O-OT. Often they will say, "It's his movies" and "he doesn't see the O-OT as Star Wars". We sure do. This is perhaps the biggest difference between O-OT fan and SE fan. While the O-OT fan often has no problem with Lucas adding and "improving" his trilogy, the average SE fan seems to take perverse delight in the absence of an O-OT release. We, the O-OT fans have no problem of the continued existence of the Special Edition, where the SE fan seems to celebrate every new change as another nail for the coffin of the old. Granted, I'm speaking in extremes and this most certainly doesn't apply to all. But this is the impression one gets on a board such as TheForce.net's.


There's really nothing wrong with liking the changes, but to rub it in to a fan of the O-OT then ridicule them is downright childish and reminds me why I'm here. One only need make a comment that they prefer Sabastian Shaw as Anakin's ghost, and they are immediately chewed out as a whiner. Some consider the SE and O-OT as different films altogether. Some even enjoy both. Yet it continues, with O-OT supporters being labeled "Lucas hating whiners" and SE supporters being jerks that act like because they "support Lucas" and party with every change they must be the only "True Fans". The door swings both ways, and there's no such thing as a "true fan". There may be different levels of devotion, but accepting the change make you no more of a fan than rejecting them makes you any less. Lucas has literally driven a wedge between the fandom, one not easily repaired.
Post
#56030
Topic
Changes in 2004 DVDs
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/56030/action/topic#56030
Time
I agree that they should have been fixed in 97. I don't believe the sabers are fixed however. Its looks like it's just the remaster. That was one of my problems with the SE. They changed things that didn't need to be, while leaving stuff that could have. If he had just removed mattlines (they only partially did), spruced up the sabers(which he didn't) and fixed the landspeeder(which he did), I'd have had no problem with it. That's the case of the Star Trek: The Motion Picture DVD. They finished what wasn't, leaving everything else alone. The film is better to me because of that. Even more so, every thing changed or removed was included in anamorphic widescreen.

As for the Hayden change, check the link I posted say it was a more mainstream view. They're froathing over it like its the greatest thing ever. I think the PT should mesh with the OT. I don't think the OT should be changed to fit the PT, it makes no sense.
Post
#56027
Topic
Changes in 2004 DVDs
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/56027/action/topic#56027
Time
Quote
Originally posted by: Obi-Wan Spicoli
I hear you, brother. No matter what Lucas puts on their plate, there are apparently scores of fans who will eat it up.


It's not so much that they eat it up, that's their choice. What angers me is that they snear at the fans who decide they don't like it. Just because one thinks Hayden being in Jedi is the greatest idea ever, does not make them a better fan.
Post
#56025
Topic
Changes in 2004 DVDs
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/56025/action/topic#56025
Time
I was talking about people on TF.N like Darth-Jett when I said that, not necessarily you. As for me, all I want is the originals in widescreen, DVD or not. Hayden's head is a reason not to get them. Jimbo, just because you find the effects better doesn't make it fact. I thought the SE effects were way below ILM's quality. Hence I see them as inferior to the originals. If I can get the films in widescreen on VHS, I'll be happy. The Faces set is what to get, despite the missing C-3PO line, right guys?
Post
#56014
Topic
Changes in 2004 DVDs
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/56014/action/topic#56014
Time
Simple question, are there any credits for the "2004 restoration" or whatever they call it? It would strike me as odd if there were none. Is it agreed that, if this were some huge elaborate hoax, however unlikely, that we all get together to beat the crap out of them? There are now clips up on changed Emperor dialogue in ESB and a new voice for Boba(which sounds positively dreadful). I still say most of this is simple video masking. The contrast is too low, making the colors appear richer. Jimbo, I thought you were dead. It surprising that you've only recently posted. People are going apeshit over this on TF.N and Darth-Jett scares me over there. Costently saying things like "another one under the belt" and "victory". I'm getting the impression that if Lucas were to leak a print with Mark Hamil replaced by another actor, they'd be applauding it as pure genius, and that Hamill had nothing compared to this guy. There's nothing wrong with liking the changes, but to rub it in to a fan of the O-OT then ridicule them is downright childish and reminds me why I'm here. Yet it continues, with O-OT supporters being labeled "Lucas hating whiners" and SE supporters being jerks that act like because they "support Lucas" and party with every change they must be the only "True Fans". The door swings both ways, and there's no such thing as a "true fan". There may be different levels of devotion, but accepting the change make you no more of a fan than rejecting them makes you any less. Lucas has literally driven a wedge between the fandom, one not easily repaired.

a new voice for Boba

McDiarmid(?) as the Emperor
Post
#55952
Topic
Changes in 2004 DVDs
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/55952/action/topic#55952
Time
Over on Millenniumfalcon.com, someone posted a comparison of the old and "new" footage without the Luke/Leia part. It looks like the new Anakin changes size when they cut back, proving either really cheap effects of that its fake. I'm starting to not buy this whole thing. Its possible all the pics are just ripped from a foreign LD and messed with. It shouldn't be that hard to up the saturation and such. All the sites I'm told have it don't work. It's not on Suprnova.org either, and they have just about everything. Any way, heres the comparison

Split Screen
Post
#55921
Topic
Changes in 2004 DVDs
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/55921/action/topic#55921
Time
Fight the Darkside, Galahad. Jealousy, hopelessness, laughing fanboys, the ignorent masses, the Darkside are they. Easily they corrupt, quick to disillusion we of the light. If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you with regret and frustration it will, as it did Lucas and his apprenticices.
Post
#55917
Topic
Changes in 2004 DVDs
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/55917/action/topic#55917
Time
It is indeed a sad day. This is worse than when he killed off Vader using Shaw without David Prowe's knowledge. The Naboo celebration scene is also him trying to tie the OT into the PT, when it should be the opposite. What's next, he outright disowns the OT, claims the PT are the films he always wanted to make, just the "technology" wasn't there, then makes IV-VI from scratch with new character, actors, and plot? Heck, he could say the EU isn't cannon any more while he's at it. Where does it end? You now have another plothole at the end of Jedi(the first being Coruscant, a hotbed of Imperial supporters, celebrating the Emperors death, especially since unless you've read the novel like me, you had no freaking clue as to what planet that is.) I'm really surprised he didn't remove Guinness in favor of McGregor. Perhaps he thought fans would be more offended that Obi-Wan gets changed than Anakin Skywalker. BTW, I see no mention of leaked video on TF.N or Jedinet.com.
Post
#55488
Topic
Cringe Factor
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/55488/action/topic#55488
Time
Actually Luke, I agree with you on the pod race. It was just so much dead weight in the middle of the film. It had its moments though. The midiclorean bit was dumb as was the virgin birth idea. He just had to throw that in. It doesn't bother me much, but in hindsight, it was lame. Killing Maul and Qui-gon off was bad as well. Qui-Gon's death could work as a catalyst to mature Obi-Wan, but it would have been cool had Maul lived so a more skilled Obi could have a climatic showdown during the Jedi purge or something. Maybe Qui-Gon's death could have been used as part of the reason Anakin turns somehow. I like how Anakin's emotionally unstable, but Lucas does overplay it a bit. Where's the "good friend" Obi-Wan mentions in IV? All I hear is"He doesn't understand" and, "He's holding me back". Jar Jar doesn't bother me much, outside of the eopie fart joke. placing the Emperor's powers almost solely on his shoulders pretty much solidifies his place in the fans loathing.
Post
#55229
Topic
Interesting Site - T'bones Star Wars Universe
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/55229/action/topic#55229
Time

I don’t know if this is old news, but has anyone else been to the cut scenes section of T’bones Star Wars Universe site? There’s a rather interesting pqart that puts some extra music from the ESB soundtrack back with their scenes. It does offer a nice alternative to well known footage. The only problem is that the video quality is abysmal. Also, unlike every other site I’ve been to, the cut scenes actually work. Here’s the link.

T’bone’s Star Wars Universe - Cut Scenes - Episode V

Post
#55159
Topic
Prequels from an Expanded Universe POV
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/55159/action/topic#55159
Time
Yeah, Lucas did miss the mark there. Maybe Kamino cloning was lost by the time of Heir to the Empire, or something. The biggest suprise for me PT-wise, is the fact that the clones fought for the Galactic Republic. I always assumed the Clone Wars were about the ethics of cloning, with fighting to keep it under control. Possibly in some grand ruse to weaken the jedi. Instead, we have an army of clones against yet another army of droids. They shoud've been called "The Seperatist Wars"

Yes, even I noticed that the novels tended to be more political rather than action oriented at times. Still, they all fit together. I think Zahn's work, coupled with the X-wing saga and the short stories are the best they have to offer. I've enjoyed all I've read with the exception of Barbara Hambly's books (Children of the Force was ok, what the hell was Planet of Twilight?). The New Jedi Order has definately put the wars back in Star Wars. It just hadn't been the same with the Imperial Remnant.
Post
#55158
Topic
Changes in 2004 DVDs
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/55158/action/topic#55158
Time
Quote
Originally posted by: buddy-x-wing
do we really need to see Boba survive the Sarlaac? can't this just be left to the EU novels, it's bad enough we had to endure the beginnings of Boba as a young New Zealand child shouting 'Git im Ded!' I think we need to see the demise of him on film, it's a pity they couldn't have given Audrey 2 (the sarlaac) a set of razor sharp teeth to make sure Boba met his grizzly end,


Hey, don't compare the new Sarlaac to Audrey 2. Granted, the design is similar, but Audrey 2 looked much more realistic. ^_^ Also, what's the point of dubbing Boba? Hasn't anyone heard of voice changers? Saying that all the stormtroopers are clones is as stupid as when the San Jose Mercury News wanted to know in 1999 why the Empire switched from droids to people. Next, we'll hear there will be a new scene of Boba removing his helmet for no reason simply to tie in to AotC.
Post
#55073
Topic
Originals not lost
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/55073/action/topic#55073
Time
Quote
Originally posted by: jimbo
1. People who prefer the originals are prequel haters. Those who prefer the Special Editions are prequel likers.


False. I enjoy the prequels. I don't know where your skewed vision comes from, but liking/hating the prequels has nothing to do with the SE. I'm sure there's fans that love everything about the SEs but dispise the PT. You're being overly general. This is also opinion that you state for fact.

Quote
2. Fans of the original trilogy have done nothing but bitch at Lucas and then ask Lucas to repect them. Its absolutly sick. After how wonderful Attack of the Clones was I can understand Lucas's frustration. There is simply no pleasing these people.


Again, your being general. The world is much vaster than your experiences. Most people don't care what he does, as long as he releases both versions. That's common practice. While slightly founded, this statement of your's is also opinion, as is your evaluation of AotC
. While I liked it, some may not have found it "wonderful".

Quote
3. Releasing the originals in the same pack would result in either higher price, less extras, or both.


Bull, a DVD costs very little in production cost. One copy of Terminator 2 contained not one, but three versions of the film. Including on more disc is peanuts.

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4. The original versions are work prints in manys mind. Why not release ten versions to show how the movies evolved. Or just show the final version.


Something that has existed for 20 years on film and video is in no way a workprint. A workprint is a copy that has no intention of being seen by the puplic. The originals don't fall into this clause. Also, have you ever looked up the phrase, "Special Edition". It basically mean, "A limited version, different from the regular edition". By all meanings, the SE should be workprint. A rare chance to see it differently. Its not a replacement. The two should exist side by side, and there's no reason otherwise.

Quote
Those are the arguements


Vague, petty, and worthless though they may be. Those are opinions, not arguements. Only as opinion do they have value. They're yours, so I respect them, but I disagree with them completely.