Juno Eclipse

Ah. It is pity Darth Caliban’s last 3 images from his post above no longer work.

The 1st image is still okay though:

 
I preferred the lived-in gritty old look vs the pristine sprawling look in the SEs. Much more in fitting with that old Western town feel they were actually aiming for at the time. The size of the buildings also seemed smaller and simpler than the SE replacements and additions, I think?
 

From the SE:

rocknroll41 said:

Probably some kinda remake of The Thrawn Trilogy.

I really hope it is not. Not by Favreau and Filoni. I hope that gets wrapped up in Ahsoka, or the Mandoverse, and not the ‘climactic story event’.

They’re both solid to great at the episodic live action stuff so far. That first season of Mandalorian being the highlight. When it comes to the story arcs, they have been found lacking; in the buildup, execution and satisfying or emotional payoff.

MinchD36 said:

There were also rumors that that the other one was Boba Fett but i doubt it because he worked for the Empire so it is most likely that Yoda was referring to Luke real sister

I’d not heard of that, do you any sources for them at the time? That sounds a curious idea.

Boba being briefly considered as being the “big baddie” for Return of the Jedi was another idea. Somewhere on here I think, with quotes from someone at Lucasfilm at that time.

Marooned Biker Scout said:

JadedSkywalker said:

I remember being convinced that the little Muppet was the Jedi Master because i was familiar with fairy tales. Luke was being tested. It was far too obvious. Lucas is many things but subtle isn’t one of them. But still it was clever and Frank Oz did it so masterfully you almost believe he is a real living breathing being. Mark Hamill is a good part of that as well though, because if he didn’t sell it in his performance it would have fallen all apart. With one of the very best scores every written for film, and one of Williams finest achievements.

All this too. Hamill, Oz and Williams’ music all give it that sense of realism, and almost an enchanting quality.

Hamill rarely gets the kudos for his acting in his Dagobah scenes, and it is easy to see why some people wanted to see Oz nominated for an Oscar (not the grouchy version) for his masterful performance.

Everyone involved really did help the scenes become more than the sum of their parts. I do get that feeling with Empire probably more than other Star Wars film.

All whilst still maintaining that delicate balance of being grounded and believable, yet also otherworldly, with that “enchanting quality”, as you say.

There are certainly a great deal of new books and comics to grab the attention. Form someone who remembers the Dark Times, and also some of the lower quality releases in the EU, it is a pretty positive time to be a reader of Star Wars content.
 

On the Qi’ra stories. A brief overview, with some minor spoilers and characters who appear:

Some people did find the inclusion of the Knights Of Ren to have been a little contrived, but seems to be one of the few perceived negatives of these comics. Some have wished that Qi’ra was more involved, featured more, but we are given satisfying reasons for that. Also, despite a great ending, a numbers of reads now wish to her more of her in other stories.

Before diving in, it is worth noting that War Of The Bounty Hunters has 34 issues, with Crimson Reign and Hidden Empire both having 5 issues each.

Frank Oz’s exquisite performance really hits home at the precise moment he turns away and sighs. The scenes had already played down any underlying “Muppet Show” feelings upon Luke and Yoda’s initial meeting, to being on something more akin to Shakespeare in Yoda’s dwelling.

Looking back it was a watershed moment.
 

As a kid watching it for the first time, it was bewitching.

This is a great thread, and really enjoyable reading all the posts in here. I really prefer the Jedi as they were portrayed both on screen and in the EU before Lucas implemented his changes to them for the Prequels.

Many fans only separate the novels and comic books into “Canon and Legends” from the old EU when Disney announced their thing in 2014. For me, my own head canon, there is also separation of the Jedi before/after 1999. The retcons of them after 1999 of no longer having family attachments, the interpretations of ‘compassion’, ‘love’, ‘fear’ (not a problem for Yoda in Empire), possessions, being separated from their parents, even uniforms (as Emre posted above). As well as the general disconnects between the two trilogies that George chose to introduce, all means it is a major obstacle to cohere the two.

In the PT they are aloof, stern, slow-witted, are portrayed now as being some sort of monk-like attitudes, and yet somehow very quickly become some sort of and tactical masterminds in the Clone Wars (because the vast Republic didn’t have any military generals tacticians before?). It is a pity they became the victims of Lucas poor vision and writing for the PT.

Compassion also seems in short supply for other characters. Whilst the Jedi do get some deserved criticism for not freeing Shmi, or Anakin for not going back for her sooner (as Servii posted), Padme or the people of Naboo could have express their gratitude to the mother of the person who saved their planet and people, and freed her. The person who also helped them in their Queen’s hour of need by agreeing to her son putting his own life in danger in a pod race, sharing food, giving them shelter and so forth. Again, the poor plot, for some illogical reason (all roads lead to the poorly told, underwhelming and very sudden fall of Anakin), demanded otherwise.

zxs_2020 said:

I’m curious what everyone thinks on this. I have found that most people hate the changes to the movies and want them in their original form, yet they refer to the first movie as “A New Hope” instead of “Star Wars”.

Since the original didn’t reference this title in any way, I see it as just another change, just like the SE changes (even though it came earlier). In fact I think using this name adds credibility to the argument that George Lucas can change the movies after release.

What do all of you think? Is it more acceptable because the change was made closer to the release? Or did you never see the original release first?

Personally, I think its hard to make a strong argument against the special editions while using a name that George Lucas came up with years after the movie came out. I’d love to know if I’m alone in this thought.

That is an interesting take. I suppose from a certain point of view you are correct, but it is a “half change” to me, because the 1977 Star Wars film was still be branded and labelled on products as “Star Wars”, often without ‘A New Hope’, well in to the late 90’s?

Then again, the ‘Original Trilogy’ was still known as “The Star Wars Trilogy” even after the Prequel films were released.

I still refer to the film as “Star Wars”, or “Star Wars 1977” if I’m talking with younger people to try and avoid any confusion on their part.

Marooned Biker Scout said:

Channel72 said:

• There’s a lot more exposition about the state of the Galaxy. There’s a scene where a Rebel commander explains that after the Death Star was destroyed, many systems joined the Rebellion, but the Imperial navy is still very powerful, and is currently spread thin around the Galaxy pursuing rebel cells. This kind of exposition is missing in the final version, requiring us to infer these background details ourselves. (Also the final version seems to imply Echo Base is the only rebel base.)

I do like that the idea of knowing more about what occurred in the galaxy after the Death Star was destroyed. But for some reason, probably Kershner’s skill as a director and keeping the tension and stakes high, the focus on Hoth does leave us thinking this could well be most, if not all, of the rebels.

Yes. Willard prompting the droids to bring up the ‘Galactic Map’ would have been cool to see, as well as his Basil Exposition:

“Since we destroyed the Empire’s Death Star, many more systems have found courage to join the rebellion. At the last count, one thousand and twenty-six. But as you see, we’re widely scattered and still vastly inferior in ships and men. This base, if we can establish and hold it, is strategically placed for….”
 

The love triangle between Han, Leia and Luke is, uh, a little strange and unsettling, to say the least, given what we saw on the actual screen and since.

ILM now have an article on their website celebrating ROTJ’s 40th:

Visual Effects Supervisor Bill George on the 40th Anniversary of Star Wars: Return Of The Jedi
 

darklordoftech said:

Juno Eclipse said:

darklordoftech said:

Juno Eclipse said:

Did George plan on brining Palpatine back in any of his many Sequel Trilogy ideas?

No

Ah, thank you. I think I was confused with George/Lucasfilm giving Tom Veitch permission to bring Palpatine back via cloning for the Dark Empire stories.

A far superior story, and executed so much than TROS, despite Dark Empire’s own issues and problems with getting a finale at all

George wasn’t the one who gave Tom Veitch permission.

https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsEU/comments/vso18w/lucy_autrey_wilson_creator_director_of_the/

That is why I posted George/Lucasfilm. I’m aware of that recent claim in the interview by Lucy Wilson. It is just that to me it seems a little strange that this anecdote surfaced after Tom Veitch had recently passed away. And that the anecdote also falls in line with and follows attempts in recent years by Lucasfilm and the publishing “arm” to downplay George’s involvement in the EU (and the Holiday Special, for that matter).

With the long history of lies, retcons, and rewriting of history by George and Lucasfilm, including downplaying and omitting various talents and contributors from Star Wars history, I think I choose to believe Tom Veitch when he says George gave the “okay” to do that in bringing back the Emperor via clones. Maybe more so given the acrimony of what happened with Tom and Lucasfilm’s abrupt parting of ways. With Tom only being given a 2-part story to quickly wrap up Dark Empire, instead of the anticipated 6-part finale.

Whether that “okay” for Tom to use the Emperor came directly from George, through Lucy Wilson, or through other people, or a mixture of people along the chain at Lucasfilm, I don’t know.

Veitch did say he wanted to originally bring back Vader’s mask and costume for Dark Empire, before using the Emperor, but was told “no” by Lucas. So who at Lucasfilm made that “no” decision, that Vader was “off limits”? And why? Because according to Lucy Wilson in that recent interview “We were kinda letting people do what they wanted [back] then”, and it wasn’t George? That in itself raises more questions.

The story by Tom saying George gave him “the okay” to use the Emperor also stood unchallenged by George, Lucasfilm, the publishers, whoever gave the “final okay” before Dark Empire went to print, and anyone “in the know”, for some 30+ years?

Edit: ^ Or why didn’t Lucy Wilson simply correct Tom Veitch at the time, if this indeed was the case, some 30+ years ago? Instead of letting this simple misunderstanding or miscommunication stand?
 

But I think I may have already veered off topic in this thread, it has probably been covered elsewhere by people far more informed and knowledgeable than me, and I am also rambling on with it too!

darklordoftech said:

Juno Eclipse said:

Did George plan on brining Palpatine back in any of his many Sequel Trilogy ideas?

No

Ah, thank you. I think I was confused with George/Lucasfilm giving Tom Veitch permission to bring Palpatine back via cloning for the Dark Empire stories.

A far superior story, and executed so much than TROS, despite Dark Empire’s own issues and problems with getting a finale at all

‘The untold story of Carrie Fisher’s ‘Star Wars’ Stinson Beach photo shoot’:

In the summer of 1983, Stinson Beach hosted Princess Leia and Darth Vader for a classic set of ‘Star Wars’ photos

https://www.sfgate.com/sf-culture/article/carrie-fisher-star-wars-stinson-beach-18074251.php
 

 
'Princess Leia arrived to the beach with Darth Vader, a scruffy Ewok and one of Jabba the Hutt’s hefty henchman.

Although it sounds like the setup for a joke you’d tell Greedo over drinks at the Mos Eisley Cantina, it happened 40 years ago, when Carrie Fisher showed up to Marin’s Stinson Beach for a “Star Wars: Return of the Jedi” photo shoot for Rolling Stone in the summer of 1983.

The magazine had reached out to Los Angeles-based photographer Aaron Rapoport to tackle the assignment. Despite windy conditions, a crowded beach and three costumed subjects lumbering through the sand, the shoot resulted in a classic cover photo and showcased Fisher at the height of her “Star Wars” popularity.

“Most of what drove it was Carrie herself,” Rapoport told SFGATE by phone, “because she was such an incredible person, full of positivity and energy. I have done a lot of cover shoots but this one was really different. It was very joyous.”

Amazingly, Rolling Stone only published two photos from the shoot, and the rest of the imagery went unseen for decades. Rapoport later excavated the shots from his basement to sell to Corbis around 2014, and the photos slowly found their way — through tweets, blog posts and subreddits — to “Star Wars” fans around the world.’
 

Much more from the interview and photos in the link above

Emre1601 said:

Star Wars: Heir to the Empire - Part One

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CC9fYUDQ6CM - 1 hour and 50 minute video at the DarthAngelus YouTube channel.

What an awesome fan project. I’m only 30 minutes in, but this is really impressive.

Chapter 23 is now listed on his channel as being made available tomorrow, May 4th.

Thanks Emre, that was a fun and intuitive read through.
 

Channel72 said:

Interestingly, there’s also some elements in this script that seem to have been recycled as concepts that appeared in the Prequels, decades later. Some examples:

• Darth Vader (who is not Luke’s father in this version) more explicitly tempts Luke with the power of the Dark Side. In fact, Vader specifically tells Luke that the Dark Side will enable him to “keep those he loves safe from harm”. Earlier it is established that Luke worries a lot about Princess Leia’s safety, and Vader exploits this when tempting Luke. This dynamic is pretty much identical to the way Palpatine tempts Anakin in the Prequels.
• Cloud City has elements that were almost certainly recycled into Kamino in Attack of the Clones. In the draft, Cloud City (called Orbital City) has tall, pale-white-skinned, native aliens that ride “giant manta-rays”. They also use “pneumatic darts” as weapons. This was obviously recycled as the Kamino aliens. (But the recycling feels a bit clumsy - the Kamino aliens don’t really fit the water-themed environment they inhabit, whereas these native cloud aliens were supposed to feel like airy warriors that dwell in the clouds - hence they use primitive darts. But why would the advanced Kamino aliens use darts?).
• Yoda (in this draft named “Minch”) uses a lightsaber, and at one point has a mock lightsaber duel with Ben Kenobi’s force ghost. This is the corniest thing ever. I don’t understand how Brackett wrote this thinking it would be filmable. (I don’t know if this scene specifically inspired Lucas to have Yoda fight with a lightsaber in the Prequels; it’s probably more likely that Lucas just thought it would be cool.)

George really did seem to keep everything from ideas, notes, and art, to recycle and use for other future stories, didn’t he? Even the more obscure or outlandish ones too. I’m surprised there isn’t an official book on the subject, providing some insight into his thought process for what became this behemoth of a saga.

Didn’t one of the fan editors from on here get invited up to Skywalker Ranch and very briefly met with Lucas or some of the execs around at the time?

It may have been the Phantom Editor themselves, I can’t quite remember. I remember reading a post on it at one of the older fan forums, and being surprised about the whole thing, and also envious.

Darth Caliban said:

Considering that Palps had a clone body in TROS, the way he died in ROTJ doesn’t matter.

Killing him differently couldn’t prevent producers and script writers bringing him back by cloning.

That is kind of a problem in itself, nobody actually dying in Star Wars. It dramatically cheapens the stakes, to the point where some of us are thinking “Oh they brought (insert character) back from the dead now. Sigh I wonder who’ll be next to come back” or “What contrivances are they going to use to bring X back next time?”

Did JJ comment about bringing back Palpatine for TROS in the way he did, cheapening the efforts and and story of the Original Trilogy, just for to have a “big bad” at of the TROS?

Whether it is Lucas changing his mind and bringing characters back (or giving the “okay” to being them back like with Boba and Maul), or Lucasfilm reluctant to kill off characters (because they are valued IP and that merch and licensing deals are too sweet to lose).

If they bring back to life a certain imperial character from Mandalorian at some point in the future, then just what is the point of being invested in Star Wars on any emotional level, if nobody of note actually dies. They just reappear at some point in the future. It is nearly as bad as Filoni’s reluctance to kill off any of his characters from the animated series, even to the point of bringing the time travel “World between worlds” gimmick to save certain characters.
 

Did George plan on brining Palpatine back in any of his many Sequel Trilogy ideas?

Emre1601 said:

darklordoftech said:

I wish they made a comic adaptation of this draft like they did of the rough draft of ANH (“The Star Wars”).

I agree, it would be an engaging read.
 

It is such a pity we did not get to her 2nd draft and a polish, that she was contracted to do for the Empire script. Before the cancer took her, just weeks after she turned that first draft in to George.

I hadn’t heard that about Leigh Brackett begin contracted for that. I thought it was just the one draft she actually did. It makes me wonder if Lucas gave her feedback, notes an ideas on the 1st draft, to do the 2nd draft. Or if her cancer was known at the time of handing her 1st draft in to him.

Where did you hear she was contracted to do a “2nd draft and a polish”?

“From Springfield to a galaxy far, far away. Maggie Simpson in “Rogue Not Quite One” is streaming May the 4th on
@DisneyPlus. #MayThe4thBeWithYou” - https://twitter.com/starwars/status/1653447560697114624
 

 
There doesn’t seem to be any more details on this so far. Probably a short 5 minute special, like the previous Maggie Simpson in Star Wars short on Disney+?

‘Return to a Galaxy Far, Far Away’ - https://twitter.com/studiotstella/status/1651895869732450304

Marooned Biker Scout said:

Emre1601 said:

Are many of these hate filled YouTubers or on social media actually reading the High Republic book and comics, or are they just trashing them because of “reasons”? Are they still trashing on it, or has the rage and quest for “I will super hate this for clicks” dwindles?

Are there any good balanced YouTubers out there that are doing reviews for the High Republic books and comics? I quite like Star Wars Explained, but he can be focused on the more positive aspects of things, rather than providing a balance, or talking more in detail about the more negative aspects.

If there is money to be made then there’ll still likely be “clicks-for-hate”. The YouTube profit algorithm will see to that.

Are there still plenty of those type of toxic channels around? I was always hoping they’d die out, were a fad, or people would see through the repeated hate of it all. Thankfully I’ve managed to keep my YouTube page clear from those sort of channels.

I do think some of the more agenda filled channels do say anything, even things they don’t actually believe in themselves, just for those clicks, money and appeasing their own fan bases.

I think some of the Sequel hater channels started out being mixed or okay with them, until they saw the dollar signs in hating on it? That infamous Kathleen Kennedy hating channel started out with a video on how he liked TLJ, until his fans told him otherwise.

But I hope that has changed or subsided a little. Especially for this High Republic era. It does make you wonder just how many of these easily offended and angry YouTubers have actually read The High Republic.

I’d wager only a handful likely have actually read them. I’d imagine a number of them copying and pasting from more indepth articles, with quotes and buzzwords.
 

If anyone does know of some balanced YouTube channels that cover The High Republic please post them in here. I’d like to take a look at them, or that also cover any other Legends/EU/canon print material.

JadedSkywalker said:

Its an insult to see a fully realized and secondary world like the original Star Wars as a rough draft the way Lucas does. He is entitled to his very wrong opinion. Along with convincing himself Han always shot second.

And lying to everyone else about Han “always shot first” too. Lucas didn’t even manage to keep his own new story straight.

Its kind of insane that he never liked the movie, the one that shattered box office records, made him a multi millionaire before the age of 40. Put Lucasfilm and ILM on the map. Changed the entire focus and direction of the film industry towards blockbusters.

We know he wasn’t happy with certain parts of it for years. But it did seem he came to dislike the movie more around the time of the doing Special Editions and then the Prequels.

Like LexX, for me the original cut version is the only universe.

I would happily take them if they appeared on Disney+ in that “Vintage Star Wars” section, where much of the older Star Wars releases have been made non-canon, but can still be seen in reasonable HD quality.
 

Our own head-canon is what is really important, regardless of what Lucas or Lucasfilm tells us fans what is isn’t or isn’t. Just a pity they actively choose not to release all the different theatrical cuts of all the films for fans to view once more.

Skybatman said:

what a bad season i need to vent after the kenobi show sw is kind dead to me i did not watch tales of the jedi or andor but i watched this because i think that season 1 and 2 was good but season 3 is bad i kinda looking for ashoka it look good but i cannot know if desapoint me will i still be a sw fan damn

I’m sure I won’t be the first to say it, but Andor and Visions very enjoyable series for fans looking for something a little different to “The Madoverse” + Kenobi. Very different to this, in a good way.

2 light-ribbing “pitch meeting” videos:
 

The Mandalorian Season 3 Pitch Meeting

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAtDj7WLjDY - a 7 minute video at the Pitch Meeting YouTube channel

The Mandalorian Pitch Meeting (season 1 and 2)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cQeT-vLiwE - a 9 minute video at the Pitch Meeting YouTube channel

Marooned Biker Scout said:

I have to ask, as you’re a fan of The Force Unleashed, what do you think of Starkiller’s Force powers in the TFU game, and also being in-canon, at the time?

Yes, the powers in the game were way over the top. I put it down to simply being “a product of its time” with the “boss baddies” and style of game familiar to many of us gamers from that era. The “Starkiller on Steroids” force powers didn’t detract from what was an enjoyable story, and fun video game, for me.

Yeah, Lucas considered TFU canon, “an actual chapter in the overall story line”. As I’ve mentioned previously on here this became my “Star Wars Prequel” for a time. The less said about the TFU2 the better!

The TFU book is actually a good read. It does start out a little simplistic and “gamey”, but after the initial chapters it expands upon what we see in the game, in some detail and does it very well, evolving the depth of the story and immerses you into it more, so the overpowered nature of the force powers and their effect do seem more believable, tolerable, and acceptable.
 

I, like many other other fans of the various “multimedia projects” from Star Wars was more than a little miffed when we were told our investment and commitment to these projects were no longer canon, or “an actual chapter in the overall story line”. Over time that sour feeling has eroded, with head canon has become a more popular and accepted way of thinking.

Edit - It still makes me laugh when I read people from Lucasfilm or on the print side of things now trying to claim that George was never involved or read any of the EU books or comics, or played the games. All easily disproved lies and some strange claims and retcons to be making on their part. I imagine they are quite adept at doing this with the practice they have had in this field.

This thread really is an enjoyable and intelligent read. So much to agree with and absorb the various views and takes in here. I’d love to know what Pakka thinks of Andor and its place and contribution to Star Wars. His thoughts on the installments to Star Wars since starting this thread too.

Looking back it is mystifying to go from “I am your father” in Empire, for that line, that decision, to take such hold on the future stories. Albeit with ROTJ there is still the feeling that Han, Leia and Luke are small, yet important cogs in the much wider rebel cause. Through to the Prequel Trilogy and beyond, where the story has become a narrow focused tale of bloodlines, midichlorians, and family dynasty. With shades of actual Dynasty for older fans of soap operas. That enveloping “shrinking universe” feel.

I thank Andor and Visions for pulling Star Wars away from that shrinking universe. That bizarre need for Lucas to have the stories evolve into the “Tragedy of Darth Vader” post-Prequels as his master-plan opus. And by “evolve” I mean retcon and rewritten that early history.

It is probably why I enjoy and anticipate more Andor and Visions, The Acolyte, and the “Dawn Of The Jedi” more than I likely should. Stories from across that universe, with new settings and eras. And in Andor’s a case, a point of view not delved into or explored before, done so in a truly engrossing, deep and astute manner.