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Jumpman

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20-Sep-2006
Last activity
11-May-2007
Posts
150

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Post
#247462
Topic
The Merits of the Prequel Trilogy and the "Saga"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/247462/action/topic#247462
Time
CO,

Totally agree. This is one of the reasons why I "wish" Lucas wasn't so dogmatic about Star Wars films being two hours and a few mintues in length. Had Lucas kept completely to the prequel scripts and didn't worry about running time, I don't think we'd be having this debate now.

Plus, the "style of Star Wars" was also something else he wanted to keep, eventhough he was making a character study. And that's just a hard thing to accomplish. And another thing that really hasn't been touched on is the time period "feeling" that Lucas is trying to replicate. Essentially, if you break it down, the Prequels are period pieces. Think about how the characters are labeled. Look at the wardrobes. Look at the politics. Look at the love story. Every characteristic is found in period pieces, either in literature or films. The problem is the setting. It's a science-fiction setting and that's a clash of acceptance if you ask me.

But, I'm also a firm believer that an audience needs to bring something to the table. I don't like films that spoon feed everything to me. The Original Trilogy is a simple tale but it doesn't spoon feed you either. With the Prequels, it's not overtly complex at all if you apply "some" thinking but you have to totally understand the story.

I liked the first two Prequel novels. I would've liked the third one, if it was written differently. The style that it was written in bugged me. But, I still prefer the films to the novels, hence the reason I got rid of the novels.

Also zombie, the "dreams" were part of the original script, from what I read.
Post
#247457
Topic
The Merits of the Prequel Trilogy and the "Saga"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/247457/action/topic#247457
Time
CO,

You know what's the most interesting part of this whole debate? If you read the "Making of Episode III" book, originally, Lucas conceived, wrote, and shot Anakin's turn in the manner to which you suggested. But, he didn't think it jived with what had been done on Episodes I and II.

Plus, he really wanted to show that Anakin, even by choice, was a victim in this whole game. He did choose, but between the Jedi and Palpatine, he was also a victim.

And I can understand the idea of "Darth Vader being a victim" would piss off Original Trilogy fans.
Post
#247454
Topic
The Merits of the Prequel Trilogy and the "Saga"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/247454/action/topic#247454
Time
CO,

I say that Anakin makes a CALCULATED decision to CHOOSE HIMSELF AND HIS WIFE, not joining Palpatine. The crux of it is that he feels that he must do Palpatine's bidding to get what he wants (Yoda's words don't offer anything. At least with Palpatine, he offers something that Anakin can grasp a hold off. Essentially, Yoda asked Anakin to give up his wife. And we all know he's not going to do that. He wants his cake and to eat it too.) But, that doesn't change the fact that he's also decided to get rid of Palpatine who he feels he has what he has. What Anakin wasn't counting on was the Dark Side dominating him.

Now, you are correct in that Episode II and Episode VI do a great job of showing that. But, I like the decision by Lucas of Anakin choosing to go this route, eventhough he knows what it might mean, because of love and fear of losing his wife.

I'm pretty positive that 100% of the diehard Original Trilogy fans would've never gone this way but I feel it makes for a compelling story and I'm glad he did do that. It would've been a very easy story for Lucas to show that Anakin gets upset at the Jedi and just decides to betray his friends. It would've been easy to show that Anakin was always a hothead and never was really a good person underneath.

The problem is that everyone knows he's going to the Dark Side. It's not a secret. So, in Lucas' mind, he has to figure out a way to make Anakin's trip to the Dark Side not what anyone expected. This is why he makes the crucial decision of showing Anakin at nine in Episode I. The threads of his fall are in that film.

I mean, I'll admit that Lucas could've made Anakin at least 16 in the first film and still have him live with his Mother on Tatoonie. The problem is that, in general, when everyone gets to that age, we all want to get away from our parents one way or another. He's not really dependent on his Mother at 16.

He still could've been good, selfless, and an earnest young man. But, leaving the home at age 16 isn't as tramatic as leaving at 9.
Post
#247443
Topic
The Merits of the Prequel Trilogy and the "Saga"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/247443/action/topic#247443
Time
CO,

"The one thing I hate about the PT, is makes Anakin like one of those people on Oprah Winfrey show, it is someone elses reason why I did it. I did this cause I had a bad upbringing, I did this cause one of my parents died early in life, etc. Lucas constantly gives an out to Anakin, and to me that undermines the strongness of Lukes character in the OT. Maybe Luke was just a stronger willed person than Anakin, nothing more nothing less. No two people are the same, and I think by constantly giving excuses to Anakin, what Luke eventually does in the context of 1-6, is really secondary now."

You would be right if Lucas didn't show Anakin questioning himself in Episodes II and III about his wants and desires. He openly admits in Episode II that what he did to the Tusken Raiders was wrong. When Obi-Wan asks what Padme would do if she were in his position on the gunship, he knows that she would do her duty, as he states. He openly tells Padme that "he wants more, but he knows he shouldn't"

Anakin is constantly battling back and forth between what he desires and wanting to do the right thing and be a good Jedi.
Post
#247441
Topic
The Merits of the Prequel Trilogy and the "Saga"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/247441/action/topic#247441
Time
CO,

Yes. Loving someone is not the Jedi Way. You can have compassion for the whole of civilization but you can't be attached to one person. Because of the nature of the Force and the fact that the Jedi manipulate the Force to their own will, if one is emotionally attached to an individual, one could slide easily down the path of possessiveness in wanting to keep that individual with them. The problem stems from the Dark Side. It's more powerful than the Light Side and it will "dominate you."

As Anakin so foolishly states to Obi-Wan, "you underestimate my power", it is clear that the Dark Side has him. He's not thinking rationally during that fight because of his belief that he has control of the "Dark Side."

This is the path of the Jedi. I don't read EU one bit but I'm sure there are tales of other Jedi loving someone eventhough they know it's not the way and could lead down a dangerous path. Again, it has to do with the Force. The Force is clearly a powerful thing. Why else does Vader bait Luke about his sister in Episode VI and that baiting causes Luke to loose it for a moment when he goes beserek on his father....

...it's the fear of loss of a loved one and the nature of the Force.
Post
#247438
Topic
The Merits of the Prequel Trilogy and the "Saga"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/247438/action/topic#247438
Time
CO,

Him wanting to overthrow Palpatine begins in that scene in Palpatine's office. Why else does he decide to go and do Palpatine's bidding?

He can't go back to the Jedi, because he had a hand in Mace's death.
He knows who Palpatine really is.
The Jedi have used him.
Palpatine has used him.

What choice does Anakin have left? Himself and his wife. Nobody else matters.

But Palpatine holds the key. It doesn't matter that Palpatine doesn't show the key. It doesn't even matter if Palpatine has the key. To Anakin, the possiblity is all that matters and he has to take it, because of the promise he made in Episode II. He's not thinking about the Jedi. He's not thinking about Palpatine and the "Sith ways." He's thinking about himself and what he has to do to save his wife.

And no, I had that figured out well before the Episode III commentary....Twelve times in the theatre will do that to you.
Post
#247437
Topic
The Merits of the Prequel Trilogy and the "Saga"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/247437/action/topic#247437
Time
CO,

The only evidence we have of Anakin not being able to go back to get his mother is the Jedi way. As he tells Padme on the cruiser, "Attachment is forbidden. Possession is forbidden."

That's the whole problem with him. Had Anakin been taken when he was a baby, he wouldn't be attached to his Mother, just as Obi-Wan and Mace aren't. They don't know them. Anakin was raised by his mother. She was the only thing he knew. She's the one who guided him to be this selfless individual at nine in Episode I. That doesn't just turn off just because you're going to be studying the Jedi Way. This is why Yoda didn't want this...."He's way too old."

As for his turn, the Darkside does play a part but I'll even admit that it's way too subtle in that sequence we he kneels before Palpatine. It's implied.
Post
#247435
Topic
The Merits of the Prequel Trilogy and the "Saga"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/247435/action/topic#247435
Time
CO,

Whoa. Anakin leaving his mother doesn't spark constant fears. He's sad that she's not with him, but not fearful. The fear creeps in when we get to Episode II and the dreams he has....

Second, Anakin does ask the Jedi, in a round about way. He can't reveal specifically the attachment he's having dreams about but he does reveal it to Yoda, before Palpatine tells his "Sith" tale. Plus, remember the funeral of Shmi in Episode II. He specifically states that "he wasn't strong enough to save her and that he won't fail again." Why does he have such thoughts in this way? Because, he believes he's the Chosen One and that he can and should be able to do anything....hence the resentment he has toward Obi-Wan and the Jedi for "holding him back."
Post
#247432
Topic
The Merits of the Prequel Trilogy and the "Saga"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/247432/action/topic#247432
Time
Tiptup,

You're disgusted by Lucas because he shows a character doing everything he could, even when he knows it's wrong, because of love? Because of the fear of being helpless in trying to save the one who represents life to him?

That's all Anakin did. I'm not justifying what he did. I'm not saying it's right what he did. It's completely pathetic. But, I understand the reasons why he did it. You seem to understand the reasons why and it doesn't fly for you. Fine. I can't change that. But, for me, it's sad what happened to this kid.

"because they ruin the perception of my three favorite movies of all time (the OT). The number one way they do this is by totally transforming the chief villain of the series; Darth Vader."

Yes. Darth Vader is changed forever. But, there's no story in the Prequels if you show Anakin as this badass Jedi warrior with an attitude and a streak of evil behind him. What's the point of telling that tale? We already know he becomes the representation of all that is evil with the Galactic Empire. You can't just show him as being always like that before he became Darth Vader.

As far as the romance goes, Anakin's side is pretty clear cut from the moment he met Padme in Episode I. That's not the issue. The issue is Padme and the fact that both of these characters are essentially novice when it comes to romance. It's awkward because of the fact that they've never done this before, on this level. Padme's the worse because it's pretty clear, she's never had a childhood. Padme's accepting of Anakin has more to do with Anakin's loss of his Mother more than it has to do with actually being in love with him. The film clearly shows she's attracted to him. But love? I wouldn't go that far. But, it's no accident that when Anakin loses him Mother, Padme is on Tatoonie. She takes her place figuratively. And when we get to the moment where Padme feels that they're not going to live through this situation, we get the confession. She's lying to herself but she doesn't know if she's going to make it either. But once she says the magic words, she can't take them back. Now, it's very clear when we get to Episode III that Padme is definitely in love with Anakin in the way Anakin is in love with her. She clearly learned to love him, in the way we categorize love, in between Episodes II and III.
Post
#247357
Topic
The Merits of the Prequel Trilogy and the "Saga"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/247357/action/topic#247357
Time
CO,

Actually, you do get a good sense that something is brewing at the end of Episode III. I mean, look at how it shifts. It shifts to Obi-Wan, Yoda, and Bail. Visually, Lucas using the Blockade Runner set as another clue. The twins are emphasized as a symbol of "hope" at the end, hence all the planning revolving around them. Plus, Padme's assessment of the Republic to Anakin on the verandah is a pretty clear indication that something isn't right. And the reason why I think it works is because it's coming from Padme, the headstrong defender of the Republic for two films prior. On top of all that, the Episode IV crawl essentially explains the Rebellion scenes. That's why I wasn't sad that they were gone...eventhough it cut out one my reasons for watching the Prequel...Miss Portman.

"I am saying one prequel would have not built up this angst against Lucas and I feel he lost so many fans when ROTS finally hit the theater. By having one prequel in the year 2000 lets say, the anticipation for 3 years about this 3 1/2 hour prologue that will answer every burning question we all had since 1983, many fans wouldn' t have had time to get burned again and again.

Many fans got burned by TPM, and feel it is a piece of shit, and I know many who never went back. Then AOTC, they couldn't take the romance, and that is when they checked out. By ROTS, you had the diehards who loved the PT by then, and then the fans who were sticking it out, but were suspect.

With one Prequel Prologue movie, the expectations would have been enormous, many would have loved it, and many would have been let down, but it would have been one movie, and fans would have moved on. The PT spanned 7 years of what ifs? Will AOTC be the movie we were expecting with TPM? Will ROTS be as great as ESB? Will ROTS be the one we waited for?

That stuff would have been gone, it would have been one movie, not a character arc, not really a story per say, but just a huge prologue that spans the events that lead up to the empire taking power, and whatever you want to say, that is one f-ing interesting story. For whatever I have my problems with ROTS, that is the story I waited for, for 7 years, and it will always be one of the most interesting SW movies, even if I have major problems with the movie.

I understand Lucas wanting to tell a different story with the PT, and having different tonality, different look, etc. But when you tie a saga 1-6 as a one story about Anakin, it just comes off as too much. If Lucas did a seperate trilogy of prequel events that tied in with the OT, but not as one story, but two seperate stories of the SW universe, that could have worked. Lucas tried to make two different stories, with different looks, tonality, and feel into one story of Anakin Skywalker, and that is where it will never connect for me."

I totally understand what you're saying. In the past (on other forums), I've even stated that there is an "alternate Prequel Trilogy" if you really look at it. And many come to the same conclusion. The Clone Wars would be the entire background of the three films and on the way, we meet Padme and we'd get all the political stuff and Anakin falling for Padme. But, the Clone Wars would be the driving force behind it all. And that does have merit.

As an aside, I love the love story between Anakin and Padme a bit more than Han and Leia. I'm a hopeless romantic at heart and from a stylistic standpoint, I totally get what Lucas was going for. My old high school friend, who's into Literature like I am, loved the love story because it reminded her of the old stories. Now, Lucas took a big chance on doing that type of love story in the environment of Star Wars. I'd say 90% felt he didn't make it work at all. I say he made it work pretty good but if he'd go back and do one more re-edit of Episode II, he'd nail it because in the script, it's golden.

But again, I'm a romantic. What can I say?
Post
#247348
Topic
The Merits of the Prequel Trilogy and the "Saga"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/247348/action/topic#247348
Time
CO,

I'll openly admit and even Lucas said so in the Vanity Fair issue leading up the release of Episode III, that he really only had enough story for one film. He's quoted as saying that "Episode I was 20%. Episode II was 20%. And Episode III was 60% of the backstory outline he had."

But, thematically, there are too many threads dealing with Anakin's arc that would've been gone had he just done one film. It's very clear, to me, that Lucas had alot to say/show with this Anakin story arc. And there are too many plots points that would've been lost.

I totally get the attitude of not wanting to deal with the "political junk" and the "love story" stuff. For many of you, it gets in the way of what everyone has been waiting to see. But, go back and reread the prologue to the Original Star Wars novel. It's the blueprint to the Prequels. On top of all that, Lucas in interviews in the early 80's, specifically stated that "if" he were to go back and do the "backstory", it would be totally different in tone, character, and era. He said he would go for something that was more about the "political machinations" of how the Republic crumbled.

I don't have the exact interview but I've read it plenty of times online in varies forums.

I totally understand the idea of "Episode III" is enough. I, in part, agree. But, I just don't think Episode III works withouth the threads he set up in the previous films. And again, that depends if you really want to see the "mother" and the "political" plot.

I like the fact that the characters, era, and tone is drastically different from the Original Trilogy. As much as he did copy the Original Trilogy, in terms of specific beats, if he'd copied the exact feel and tone of the Original Trilogy, he would've caught hell for not coming up with something different. As it stands, many feel that stylistically, the Prequel Trilogy isn't Star Wars.

All I say is why does Star Wars have to be only defined in one way? I understand the Originals started it all. That can't be taken away. But, why limit the vision and universe of Star Wars?



Post
#247344
Topic
The Merits of the Prequel Trilogy and the "Saga"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/247344/action/topic#247344
Time
Tiptup,

I'm not really saying you're wrong. All I'm saying is fear drove him to that point. It's the fear of losing the one he loves. It's fear of letting history repeat itself when you know in your heart that you can make a difference. That's all Anakin's problem really is. He loves Padme. Life without her isn't life. If he feels in his heart that he either has the power or can obtain the power to save her, he's going to do it...everyone else be damned.

And it's not like the Jedi didn't give him reasons to turn his back on them. They openly used him against a person they knew he was close to. Sure, he's a Jedi first and foremost but just look who Anakin is in the Prequels. Anakin is loyal to people he loves, not ideals (Ideals the Jedi try to teach him. Why is he this way? Because of his age...hence the reason why Lucas had him at nine in the first film). This is why his fall to the Darkside thematically revolves around people he cares for.

He's loyal to Palpatine. He's loyal to Obi-Wan. He's loyal and loves Padme and his Mother. The Jedi should've know better than to put Anakin in that situation. Why do you think Obi-Wan was reluctant to ask him?

On top of all of that is the disrespect factor. Obi-Wan kills the first Sith in a millennum and he's promoted to Jedi Knight without question. Anakin saves Obi-Wan twice, whips the shit out of a powerful Sith Lord, ex-Jedi Master who kicked the shit out of Obi-Wan twice, and saves the Chancellor of the Republic from what could've been death. I'm not saying he should've been promoted to master but they definitely should not have asked him to spy on a father figure. Anakin needed to have some respect from his superiors...and I'm not talking Obi-Wan.
Post
#247338
Topic
The Merits of the Prequel Trilogy and the "Saga"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/247338/action/topic#247338
Time
Tiptup,

He's not a whiny psycho. He just feels that he can and should be able to do anything, being the Chosen One and all. If he's suppose to be this all powerful Jedi, why can't he keep things the way they are?

Life doesn't work that way. Things always change. For Anakin, it comes from a place of love but because he's a Jedi, he can't have these thoughts. Trying to figure out how to make everything and everyone around stay the same and keep things is a pathway to gain more power...and for a Jedi, that's the Darkside.
Post
#247335
Topic
The Merits of the Prequel Trilogy and the "Saga"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/247335/action/topic#247335
Time
Tiptup,

Anakin's slaughtering of the younglings is all about driving forward to possess what he seeks. He can't go back to the Jedi because of his involvement with Mace's death. And in a way, he feels he's been used by the Jedi and Palpatine. At least Palpatine offers a way to take away his fear that he has. Yoda's words offer nothing to him.

Anakin going to that Temple has really nothing to do with the Jedi or Palpatine. It has everything to do with doing what is neccessary to gain what I needs. And the reason it works is because Anakin wants to rid the galaxy of Palpatine when we get to the end.

Whether you buy it or not, Anakin had that thought running through his mind ever since he left Palpatine's office to take care of the Jedi.

That's why the sequence works. Anakin would go this far, not thinking what Padme would think about this, because he's so fearful of loosing the one he loves. He promised his mother he wouldn't let it happen again and he meant it. It's absolutely the wrong attitude to take but this is how he feels....because he feels he's the Chosen One. The Jedi have labeled him this way. Qui-Gon believed it. When we get to Episode II, his actions and attitude suggest that Anakin believes it. Why can't he do anything?




Post
#247330
Topic
The Merits of the Prequel Trilogy and the "Saga"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/247330/action/topic#247330
Time
Gaffer,

Yeah, see that's where I differ. I've never read a single bit of EU. The films are and will forever be my canon. But with the Original Trilogy, I was always a Obi-Wan, Vader, and Yoda fan. Obi-Wan's speech to Luke in his hutt filled enough in my head for me to want to know how it all went down back in the day. I liked Luke, Han, and Leia, but they just didn't have the presence that Vader, Obi-Wan, and Yoda had.

I think Anakin's a far more interesting character, whether likeable or not. His story is just more complex than Luke's. But, that's fine. Their stories and circumstances should be different because they were raised different.
Post
#247314
Topic
The Merits of the Prequel Trilogy and the "Saga"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/247314/action/topic#247314
Time
Obi,

I'll argue that the story is different, told numerically. You guys see the emotional power with the Original Trilogy by itself. I agree as well. But, watching them numerically tells a different tale. It's just different. Not better, but different. And it just depends on whether or not you can accept that the Star Wars story can be told in two different ways.

For me, I prefer Anakin's story to Luke's eventhough you need Luke to finish Anakin's story.


Post
#247310
Topic
The Merits of the Prequel Trilogy and the "Saga"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/247310/action/topic#247310
Time
Gaffer,

The Clone Wars had to end with some plot point or pivotal moment. Using Grevious to do that was fine. I mean, it makes perfect sense from where I stand for the droids to have some type of field general for combat against the Republic. I don't like the idea of Dooku doing that so, Grevious wasn't too farfetched at all.

Would it have been cool to introduce Grevious in Episode II? Sure, but he still works even if you hadn't seen the Clone Wars, which I didn't.

As far as Anakin's turn, it's all about going forward to gain the power to achieve his goal. With him, unintentionally helping with the death of Windu, he can't go back to the Jedi. So, he might as well submit to achieve what he truly desires; the power to save Padme.

The turn doesn't work without Episodes I and II. The threads for that scene are in the previous films. Now, execution is subjective but I think it's a very good scene. And I also love the scene because it's the scene that Anakin begins his plan to rid the galaxy of Palpatine(a plan he continues in the Originals-overthrow his master to become the master). Problem is, he never to into account the Darkside.

Post
#247262
Topic
The Merits of the Prequel Trilogy and the "Saga"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/247262/action/topic#247262
Time
Obi,

That argument still doesn't hold much water. How can you go see a film, you know you loathe, that many times, even if it is labeled Star Wars? I mean, that's wasting money.

Dead Man's Chest made ridiculous amounts of money this summer. I loathed that damn film after one viewing and will never see it again. I don't go back and see something if I don't like it.

Star Wars is a cultural juggernaut, no doubt about it. But, again, it has to be enjoyable to the masses for the films to make that kind of money. The masses are what make films blockbusters, even for the franchise that have built-in fanbases (which I believe are not as big as the net make them out to be).

As much as I hate the first Spider-Man film, the masses ate it up and it made 403 million domestically. That's not just Spider-Man fans over and over again.

It's the same with Star Wars, I feel. It's gotta work, no matter the impact the Original Trilogy had.
Post
#247248
Topic
The Merits of the Prequel Trilogy and the "Saga"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/247248/action/topic#247248
Time
Mike,

Sure, people would be interested in seeing it but again, it has to be good to warrant 431, 310, and 380 million. Not to mention DVD sales for the Prequels.

I'm not saying the Star Wars name didn't help because obviously, it did. But, not to those numbers. The reason those numbers are so high is because of the new generation of children who caught on to Star Wars with this trilogy and not the Originals.

This is why the Star Wars films will always have a generational gap.....
Post
#247241
Topic
The Merits of the Prequel Trilogy and the "Saga"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/247241/action/topic#247241
Time
Obi,

If it's true that audiences loathed the Trilogy's trio, then how can the three films make 431 million, 310 million, and 380 million respectfully?

It can't just be the Star Wars name alone. Star Wars name or not, you don't get those kind of numbers unless people like what they saw? People don't go back if they didn't like what they saw....
Post
#247176
Topic
The Merits of the Prequel Trilogy and the "Saga"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/247176/action/topic#247176
Time
Gaffer,

Obviously, the first time I saw Episode I, it helped that I had a pre-existing knowledge of Star Wars. Given all that, when I looked at it a second time, I still thought it was a good film that clearly had more to tell in the sequel, even if it were Star Wars or not.

How would Episode I faired if it remained the way it was and was released on the same day back in 1977? I think it would've done gangbusters just the same. Our generation will never know. But, I do know that Episode I is much better than the crap Hollywood throws out every weekend.

It's no masterpiece but it's not the worst of the worst. It's inventive in places. It still has one of the best one and one fights I've ever seen in film. The reveal of Coruscant still gives me goosebumps. The podrace still kicks all kinds of ass. And it is also the film I discovered the lovely Natalie Portman. You especially can't go wrong in that department.

For me, Episode I is just really fun...with or without the Star Wars name. It kind of reminds me of Willow, a film that I still like. I don't know what you guys think about that particular film but that film still works wonders on me.
Post
#247174
Topic
Lucasfilm to sell Physical Effects Unit
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/247174/action/topic#247174
Time
Essentially, what they did was Towers was make it a bloated mess that ultimately affected how King turned out.

I mean, seriously how can you bring down Isengard and not show the demise of Saruman at the end of The Two Towers or the beginning of King in its threatical form? And then when you put it at the beginning of the King Extended, it's logically and tonally a mess and feels really tacted on.

The Fellowship is just pure Tolkien and even in the scenes they changed slightly, it's still more Tolkien than the rest of the trilogy.

Just give me The Fellowship Extended, Revenge of the Sith, and A New Hope if I had to be strained on a island.