Thanks for the tip on the Negative1 preservation. I decided not to do my own preservations of these, since the consensus seemed to be that there wasn't a substantive difference between the CEDs and the LDs. Although I'm certainly going to look for Negative1's preservation.
(edited, never mind)
Histeria said:My father has an old cine-film copy of a 'short version' of star was (complete with an anamorphic lens adaptor) which is edited down to about 20 minutes long. It's from the late 70s but not sure exactly when or where it's from (anyone help with that?). By way of a straw poll - how many people who remember the missed throw have seen this?
I would love to see that. Is there a preservation of this?
Leper Messiah TR said:yeah, and they didn´t use cgi last time I looked
whatever, either you get what authenticity to the source is or you don´t - pointless to argue any more
The comics didn't use CGI because comics CAN'T use CGI. They also can't use audio, or moving pictures. So you're saying that the film shouldn't have used audio and moving pictures? It was strongly implied that Rorschach's mask was constantly changing with his emotions. No, it wasn't even implied, it was stated outright.
Authenticity can't be slavish. The Lord of the Rings films would've been bogged down if they'd included Tom Bombadil. The new Star Trek would have been hamfisted and boring if it would've been completely "authentic."
Also, I'm still waiting for how you could possibly have thought that Doc Manhattan was in on Veidt's plan.
I agree, I was never really sure why everyone hated the 97s so much. Obviously, they weren't quite as good as the O-OT, because a lot of stuff just felt tossed in ("Look! Remember Shadows of the Empire? Well, here's a swoop and the Outrider! Also, a big dinosaur! And falling Jawas! And an angry droid! And a shot of Vader getting off his shuttle at Cloud City! And more Dewbacks, and a Sentinel-class shuttle, and so many awesome things that we just HAD TO SHOW YOU!) But they didn't screw with too much, other than Greedo shooting first. And it was nice to see the cleaner picture than the old Faces VHS box.
Leper Messiah TR said:yep, and another thing: I think in the movie we see Rorschach´s mask actually change too much, I think that effect shouldn´t be in plain view that often
Did you...read the comics?
Leper Messiah TR said:in the comic Veidt played everybody, including all-powerful Manhattan, which is an ending the reader would not likely forsee (I sure didn´t)
also the way Manhattan leaves Earth is so much more interesting and meaningful
yes he is responsible
wikipedia:
"He explains that his plan is to unify the United States and Soviet Union and prevent nuclear war by destroying the world's main cities with exploding energy reactors he had Doctor Manhattan create for him under the pretense of providing free energy for the world. "
(although I can not remember this happening in the movie, DC only?)
which means Manhattan is in on the plan
and if this isn´t significant, what is?! Han shooting first? The force not being a biological phenomenon? I don´t think so!
1) Veidt still totally plays Manhattan. He plays him harder, in fact.
2) Doc still leaves for the same reason. There's just an added wrinkle as well.
3) Doc is not responsible. If I make you a pizza, and then, unbeknownst to me, you put poison in it and murder someone, am I responsible because I made the pizza? Manhattan wasn't in on the plan AT ALL. Key phrase here: "UNDER THE PRETENSE of providing free energy to the world." If Doc was in on the plan, why would he be mad at Veidt at the end?
4) Well, Han shooting first isn't that significant, really. In the grand scheme of the story, it isn't that big of a deal. The reason I still like the original cut is that the original cut is the way I first saw it, and that's the cut I like. The Force as a biological phenomenon, on the other hand, DOES significantly change the story. Something which is supposed to be a mystical energy that guides and binds the galaxy, is instead just a superpower generated by a bacterial infection. Midi-chlorians degenerate the concept of the Force from a theological precept that HAPPENS to give people powers, to just a superhuman mutation. The ending to Watchmen, on the other hand, really doesn't change any of the thematic subtext, any of the character arcs, or anything noticeable about the story, except for the specific facts of Veidt's method. The story is not about the facts of what happen; it's about much deeper concepts than that. And the nuke ending doesn't damage those concepts.
Leper Messiah TR said:well in the original Manhattan isn´t responsible for the killing of MILLIONS, but that´s just nitpicking, innit?
He's not responsible in the movie either. Veidt did it. And even if Doc is responsible...what does it substantively change?
Leper Messiah TR said:with some creative editing it might ;-)
because Moore wrote it that way - blaming Manhattan screws up several characters AND the whole story completely, and as long as that idiocy stays this movie will always be a 1/10 for me
even though the squid thing is possibly a weak point of the graphic novel, but any other solution would be an improvement to Snyder´s ending (even a simple insert saying "missing reel"!)
I'm not faulting the ending in the original comics at all. But it just could not work on film. Film audiences would not accept it, and it wouldn't look good even to those of us who read the comics.
I also don't see how the Manhattan ending screws any characters up. It slightly changes Doc's motivation for leaving Earth, and removes part of the significance of Tales of the Black Freighter, but other than that, what's the big deal?
Leper Messiah TR said:I haven´t read the thread, but I hope the ultimate atrocity of the movie will go: the changed ending that involves Dr Manhattan somehow (I actually can´t remember how exactly Snyder fucked it up only that it pissed me off unbelievably)
1) Totally impossible, the squid footage doesn't exist.
2) Why on Earth would you want the squid in the movie? It wouldn't translate at all. It would look horrible.
vbangle said:a.b.starwars
Is it available anywhere else?
negative1 said:yeah, i'm looking for this also..
any help?
thanx
later
-1
I'm also looking.
Does anyone still have this?
Does anybody still have these?
Which release of the laserdiscs are these sourced from?
Sorry if this has been discussed before, but I need a quick answer: has the Star Wars original trilogy on CED been preserved yet? The differences to the theatrical release are that they are fullscreen, time-compressed by three minutes, and depending on the year of release, it’s missing the C-3PO line about the tractor beam couplings.
There are some pretty cheap opportunities to purchase ANH and ESB on CED at eBay, so I’m trying to figure out if I should get them and try and have them transferred to DVD.
I think the flashback scenes should be done all in one color. I think the blue-to-red shift would look a little tacky and forced. I also disagree with the idea of using quotations from the film in the end credits. I just don't see what's accomplished there.
However, I love your paint job on getting Dan out of the picture in the Arctic. I think you should sign on to help Ash with his edit, just to work on that scene, and let Ash do the rest of the flick.
What about getting the classic DC bullet logo for that title sequence? The new DC logo sucks, and wasn't on the originals.
ChainsawAsh said:Don't forget that the Ultimate Cut will include additional footage of the newsvendor and the kid to transition between Black Freighter and the film itself. That's why I'm waiting until then to do this cut.
Oh, seriously? Cool. Still, I can probably get a roughed-out idea of how it would break down in episodes.
How do they do that? Do they just treat the Black Freighter sequences as an animated version of the comic book that the kid is reading? Does anyone know?
ChainsawAsh said:I'm definitely going to attempt that. I'm resistant to the idea of cutting it up into a 12-part "miniseries"-type thing, simply because I'm fairly certain that some of the "chapters" are much longer than others in their filmed state. It would be a little odd to see a 40-minute "episode," then the next one is 10 minutes. I don't know if the difference would, in fact, be so extreme, but I'll see how it works when I get to the edit itself.
I think that would be a different edit. But it would be easy enough to take that Director's Cut, watch it, watch the Tales of the Black Freighter DVD, and see how the different segments come out on film in terms of time. I think I might try to do that this week.
Monroville said:I agree, or at least play around and have some fun with the music - maybe use 1940s to 50s music during the earlier years footage and take music from the 60s, 70s and 80s to play with what is happening according to the time that said event is happening. One idea I always wanted to play with was to take songs like ELEANOR RIGBY or any number of GENESIS songs in Phil Collin's early days and take out the vocals and just use the background instrumentals as a form of a soundtrack.
I like what you're saying about playing with the music and the different time periods...but isn't that what Zack Snyder did, and got called "too clever" for doing it?
(3) I don't want to start a tennis match back-and-forth on this, since it's been done to death at AINT IT COOL alone, but is there any way to bring back the Squid? I know, short of taking a HD DISCOVERY channel doc and doing some heavy editing and FX work, it would probably be impossible, but again, just a suggestion (one idea to bring the squid back is that said squid is inside the spherical container Doc M creates - that way you can still keep the stuff that is in the movie. That would only leave the climax to alter).
I know you don't want to start a tennis match, so I assume neither of us will let it degenerate into that, but I'm curious as to why you would want to. Surely you don't think it could ever be pulled off onscreen in a convincingly foreboding, terrifying way?
The question of whether to use them is a toughie. Things to consider are 1) the shots aren't in the comics, 2) there's a good argument to be made that flashbacks of that particular variety aren't common to the comics, and 3) there's just as good of an argument to be made that such flashbacks ARE common to the comics. Not sure what my call would be.
If the goal is to just make the flick BETTER, I'd say definitely use them.
Aren't there credit texts over those shots?
ChainsawAsh said:the prominent featuring of the lesbian Minuteman (Minutewoman?) whose identity and purpose are never made clear throughout the rest of the film ...
I think her purpose, within the story, was simply to be what she was in the credit sequence: a demonstration of the disparity between the exterior and the interior of these superheroes.
This might be a pretty difficult project to do, since the higher-quality video files are (I'm assuming) in .avi or some similar format, and I don't know how easy it is to separate audio. You should probably talk to the folks on the Fan Edit Forum. There seems to be more people there, and they might be able to help you. As far as know-how and programs, trust me, you can make it happen.