Jonno

Ah, that clears that up then - cheers Moth3r.

Though it would be a good idea to put both the original DPL and the 5.1 upmix (as per the other thread) on the same disc to do an easy A/B comparison. The only snag is the combined bitrate - there probably won't be room for high quality video AND high quality stereo AND 5.1.

I've done some initial tests on rerouting the surround channels to 5.1 (as prescribed by Adywan) and it seems to be working! It's probably worth stressing that it won't (and indeed shouldn't) sound different to the DD2.0 surround version, except for the added LFE - I'm not enough of an expert on the nuances of the original to tell for sure (and my surround system is hardly cutting-edge) so once I've done some preliminary encodes I'll pop them up for folks to sample.

Seconded - this is really fantastic, thank you h_h!

Ok, quick tech question which pertains more to this discussion of the original PCM than our 5.1 talk elsewhere - with an old-school DPL surround track such as this, does the stream on the DVD (either PCM or encoded into AC3) need to be 'flagged' as DPL, or does the receiver just *know*?

I couldn't see a simple flagging option in any of the encoders I've looked at, but that doesn't necessarily mean it isn't needed in this sort of scenario...

Thanks, HH - I'll look forward to getting my hands on those.

Quality wise, it certainly makes sense to work on the tracks at normal speed, then speed up for PAL. Indeed, if the video on the PAL GOUT has truly been converted from NTSC (which I've read on here, but don't know where that info came from originally), presumably the PAL sound was also just rate-squeezed from the NTSC master? Nasty...

That all sounds perfectly sensible (and clear) - I'll be sure to give it a try! Hopefully my hardware and software will play ball when I try to record the multiple channels...

Oh, and I'd best try to lay my hands on the PCM versions to work from - if anyone knows of a current newspost/torrent/rapidshare link, please let me know!

Before I can offer anyone anything, does this subtitle formatting/placement look correct for Jedi? I had to hack the subtitle section of the script slightly before the encoder would accept it - don't think I did anything damaging, but would appreciate the confirmation...

Sorry, I was showing my ignorance earlier - Prologic's channels are left, right, centre and mono rear. So if they could be decoded within the digital realm (no idea if this is possible), it would be a simple case to reassign them to the respective channels within 5.1, dupe the mono surround to both rear channels, and slot in the LFE.

The levels might need a bit of fiddling, but really it's the decoding that would be the hard part. Any ideas?

This guy (reviewing the GOUT release) seems to think it's Pro Logic matrixed:

The audio here is plain old Dolby Digital 2.0, the exact same audio track included on the 1993 Definitive Edition LaserDiscs converted to Dolby Digital. It includes the same Pro Logic matrix cues that the 1993 LaserDiscs had, so today's Pro Logic II decoders will have an easy time with it, but I really would have liked to have seen an uncompressed PCM stereo audio track included as the primary audio track. Since we're being limited to two channels anyway and these discs are essentially a sort of "archive" copy of the versions that Lucas has now deemed to be simply rough drafts, it would have been a nice touch. It would also have been nice to see a Dolby Digital 5.1 track derived from the old Pro Logic mix as a secondary option for folks without Pro Logic II decoders.

http://www.prillaman.net/starwarsdvdreview-trilogy_le.html (read down)

Thanks for the tip, Will, but it seems that EAC3to doesn't like the 2.1 format ('non-supported data format')  :-(

Hairy_hen, if it's really not a problem to upload a full PAL version, that would be just swell!

But it would be good to have the source to play with anyway - as you say, 5.1 is a little more universal. I suppose the real trick would be to extract the surround information from the encoded stereo, and position it discretely - and what about the centre channel? Perhaps fudging it with an automated upmixer, then plugging in the discrete LFE, would be the best approach for a pleasing surround effect...

Warning: this point has probably been made before... ;-)

Bingowings' idea of initially keeping Amidala away from Naboo reminds me of something I've found fundamentally wrong with the PT.

A great part of the OT's adventure and spectacle comes from the constant changes in location - always moving forward, and apart from slight returns to Tatooine and Dagobah, never looking back. So the films are always visually fresh, with a constant sense of momentum.

In contrast, I remember feeling confused and dismayed when watching TPM for the first time, at around the point when the gang decides to leave Coruscant and return to Naboo. For the rest of the film. They're going back? But we've already SEEN Naboo! Sheesh...

Of course, I got used to this by the end of the three films - in AotC we were back on Naboo AGAIN. And it even pops up for a cameo in RotS. Same problem to a lesser degree with Coruscant, which we spend huge sections of the trilogy just hanging around on.

Ok, I get it, the PT universe is different and the characters aren't on the run - they have homes and permanent bases, so they're not exploring as much. But I still see it as a structural failure that the plotting loses out on the OT's restless travelling - it just feels landlocked as a result.

So, to cut a long story short, any reworking and restructuring that can remedy this failing will - to my mind - help retrieve a bit of OT-style magic.

It really looks like I'm going to have to go the source route.

Hairy_hen, I wouldn't ask you to do the PALifying for me, but could I trouble you to upload the PCM source files somewhere so I can process them myself? Only if it's no trouble.

I would of course upload the results for any other PAL types to make use of...

Well, I tracked down the v0.6 b61 GUI and even with all the downmix/remix options off, it insists on converting to 5.1 (how, I'm not entirely sure...)

I might take a bit of a breather from this now ;-)  Any further thoughts would be welcome...

Thanks for the input guys.

I've popped the files into Besweet (well, Belight anyway!) ESB was rejected for some reason ("Error 32: No input-data was found (wrong substream?)"), but RotJ seems happier. (EDIT: I re-extracted the RAR and it works fine now, so please disregard that part!)

However, there are only two output modes - stereo or 5.1. I'm guessing the stereo will discard (or downmix) the LFE, and the 5.1 will be just, well, wrong?

I imagine the problem with direct encoding is that 2.1 isn't widely supported as a typical input (or output) format...

Fantastic work! Can't wait to give these a listen.

One snag - my GOUTs are PAL format, and I'm guessing these are NTSC (i.e. correct) speed.

Any tips on changing the speed of a full 2.1 file? Or will I have to decompress/adjust/recompress?

I'm pretty sure Michael Bay isn't a prime example of someone who pores over the minutiae of logic and geography, but then I haven't seen Transformers 2 yet so for all I know it's a 3-hour thesis on spatial continuity and diegetic rigour ;-)

Janskeet said:

I like this better, in order for the carbon chamber to fit inside of "the processing vane" that's going to have to be a pretty beefy width. Not to mention later in that scene we see a lot of winding hallways. I'm a little confused how they could be winding when the vane appears to be straight from the outside. Like I said in an older post, I think this was just a case of George Lucas overindulging in his obsessive compulsions to do whatever he wants with no consideration for logic or geography.

 

The irony.

'Obsessive compulsion' would be pore over the minutiae of 'logic and geography' with no consideration for efficient storytelling and expressive visuals. Sound familiar?

Bingowings said:

If it is to house the discs of the box set it would need a design for the extras disc, perhaps one of the OT single programme posters could be the inspiration?

That poster's ace! Hadn't thought of doing anything with extras as yet, just concentrating on the films themselves - so maybe three sets in total, the GOUTs (via Mother and G-Force) I've done, then the Revisiteds, then the Jambe Davdar docs. I reckon I'll skip the SEs altogether ;-)

BTW, has anyone heard anything from JD recently?

Ah, that all makes sense now! Impact fiddling it is, then. Not looking forward to tackling the W...

Bingowings said:

A lovely set and really evocative of a time when watching Star Wars at home was like having Christmas morning 24/7.

If the CBS FOX was changed to ADY WAN they would also make a fine addition to the Revisited range of alternate sleeves.

Aw, thanks! That's exactly what I was aiming for - the Star Wars rental box just had a magic that hasn't been matched by any other release, probably because it still has the association of a special treat (which the own-at-home varieties weren't, to quite the same extent).

I'm very tempted to take you up on the Revisited suggestion, but I need to find a way to distinguish them from the basic set - black on white, maybe? Though with the making-of connotations of that scheme, it may be better suited to a Star Wars Begins / Building Empire / Returning to Jedi set...

Following on from some talk in the covers thread, can anyone identify the font used for the CBS FOX part of this logo?

I could fiddle about with Impact (ugh) to come up with something similar, but wondered if anyone knew more precisely what it was...

Bingowings said:

RCB am I right in thinking that English isn't your first language as I often find it difficult to understand what you are posting?

In this case I'm not sure that it isn't - more that 'wat' and 'u' are the ways da kidz are spellin these days, yo?

Anyway, singling one OT poster out for unintelligibility seems rather tokenist - these threads can be pretty painful to follow sometimes...

On topic - if watching my PC trudge through ESB frame by frame (while running the G-Force script) has taught me anything, it's how beautifully filmed it is - the care that's evident in every shot is amazing.
If slavish devotion to spatial continuity comes at the expense of Kershner and Suschitzky's lovely compositions, the film will be poorer for it.

I think you're all missing the point - where's the REALLY COOL MSPAINT COVER? Jeez, some peoples' priorities are all wrong...

With great difficulty.

Premiere has neither a direct import/ripping tool for DVD, nor editing support for SD MPEG-2 - this is probably while most fan editors tend to use Womble or Vegas (though I personally favour Grass Valley's Edius program, which performs incredibly well with compressed sources like that, and it even has a direct import tool for non-encrypted discs).

At a push, you could rip the video streams first (with Decrypter or whatever) and then convert them into something friendlier like DV AVI - there are various video converter tools you can download, or if you're on the latest (CS4) Premiere, its standalone media converter should be able to achieve this.

Whatcha makin'?

Could I second the request for the whole set please? :-)

I'm doing my Empire and Jedi GOUT conversions soon, and it would be great to have superior audio to slot in.

By the way, the tracks that are already synced to the GOUT - is that NTSC or PAL versions?

Here's a weird one.

I was only born about a week after Star Wars was first released, so I didn't actually see it until Empire came around - our local cinema (like many, I'm sure) was showing the pair as a double bill, so that was my first exposure to the saga (a pretty intensive one, I guess!)

Anyway, I VIVIDLY recall Empire having a completely different title sequence from Star Wars - no crawl, no big theme, just photos of the characters with their names, underscored with some fairly tranquil music.

Retrospectively, I can just about rationalise it with the assumption that the cinema showed the Empire trailer directly after Star Wars, before the intermission - the main trailer certainly does have stills of the characters appearing amidst the live-action footage. But still, that's not really what I remember...

Like I say, weird! And it looks pretty absurd in writing, but I thought I'd share anyway...