Jonno

Indeed I do! PM sent.

Thanks for your patience everyone - I've been working on a re-edit of the 70mm track which I wanted to finish before sending out any more links. I'm afraid it's still just the PCM Dolby Surround track (which will yield something like 4.1 through a Pro Logic processor), but this version syncs to the BD video far more tightly than before (and it should, since this is my third attempt!)

I'll send PMs to everyone who's waiting, let me know if I forget you or if you'd like to be added to the list.

As a bonus I've also done a sync of the PCM Dolby Stereo mix from the 1992 collector's edition laserdisc. I haven't managed to do a full video test of this sync yet, but if you'd like to try it and let me know how you find it, feel free!

Hmmm... seems the mono is indeed only available on the US BD set (this comparison only looks at the region B Holland release, but that can probably be taken to represent all of the European releases given Fox's standard operating procedure: http://dvdcompare.net/comparisons/film.php?fid=13793).

FWIW, the US set is terrific and well worth an import if you can play region A discs (which these most certainly are).

Here's what I've figured out so far about Planet of the Apes:

The original movie was mixed in 4-track stereo and mono, though there is some doubt as to whether the 4-track mix ever saw the light of day (there's a discussion on that subject here: http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=71763&forumID=1&archive=0) - at least the majority of 1968 release prints were mono.

By the time home video rolled around, Chace did one of their pseudo-stereo mix jobs and this is used on all the laserdiscs that I'm aware of (which may not be exhaustive, but I've spent some time searching). DVD and Blu-ray brought questionable 5.1 mixes to the table, BUT the Blu-rays do feature the original mono mix as well so this is the best source that I'm aware of.

It's a similar story for the sequels, though in their cases there was no question of an original stereo mix since they were only ever released in mono. They too follow the path of dubious home video remixes followed by a solid preservation of the original mono on the Blu-ray.

I'm prepared to be corrected on any/all of this, particularly if anyone has more info on the original theatrical releases or laserdiscs that preserve the mono tracks as PCM - this would be especially welcome in comparison to the BDs' basic Dolby Digital.

Here's something a little older: the 1990 'Mancini' Dolby SR trailer as seen here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IHWa4eAENM

I've upscaled that 720p video and restored its 23.976fps rate (the web version has a strange 1/6 repeated frame cadence), and replaced the soundtrack with CD PCM. Here's the M2TS:

(edit: link removed since someone decided it was clever to upload my work to youtube without asking)

I have more Dolby Stereo and SR trailers to upload, but since they're currently 480p (I captured and reworked them from a VHS source) I'll see if there's any value in upscaling them.

I happened to have my Dr. G discs close to hand so I checked them out - sadly the sound is regular 2.0 surround (which makes sense considering the definitive edition didn't include an AC-3 track).

Here's the VOB in case its lower-generation picture proves useful (it's NTSC frame rate):

https://www.box.com/s/26jdeo6zpawweha9z1uc

Here's my upscale of the scope version.

https://www.box.com/s/hrcynbskbdx71skytfn8

Borisanddoris, I'm intrigued by your mention of a fixed height viewing setup. Does this mean that letterboxing for scope is less desirable? I'd tend towards letterboxed (or, in some cases, windowboxed) 1080p as a standard since BD is the natural medium, but I'd be interested to hear if anyone works differently (particularly since I've just invested in a projector myself).

I just happen to like the Argo version because of the simulated dust and scratches, but good tip on Enter the Dragon too. 'Upgraded' studio logos are  a pet hate of mine - see also the various Bond releases.

Sounds about right. The new disc is AVC encoded so we should find it altogether easier.

I'll also put together some instructions for replacing the WB logo with the correct Saul Bass version. You just need a BD copy of a film that uses it, which is considerably easier now that some modern films have adopted it (Magic Mike and Argo).

It wasn't easy! Of course we're not just talking about two different cuts, but two different regional prints - a US 'Road Warrior' print (used on the laser/DVD) and the Aus 'Mad Max 2' print used for the Blu. The separation at birth resulted in all sorts of inconsistencies at reel junctions and such, but I took my time smoothing the joins and (in some cases) looping and patching - it's fairly transparent unless you do a direct A/B.

The new set should be with me in a couple of days, and as said I'd just like to check that the sync works with the latest version before I upload it (even though I'd synced precisely to the HD-DVD's TrueHD, the video still gave me trouble when I remuxed it for Blu - seems there's some sort of undisclosed delay with HD-DVD discs.)

That's an old UK tape I had years ago - not sure what it's doing in Aus! It's the BBFC 18 edit of Mad Max 2, the current HD version is more complete.

Speaking of which, I recently synced the laserdisc Dolby Stereo for Mad Max 2 / The Road Warrior to the HD-DVD video for a custom disc. I'll upload the track if anyone's interested, though I'd like to wait until the new Blu-ray release arrived with me to check that it syncs with that.

That was my bad, you did indeed say the scope version could be found on DVDs. Sorry for being misleading.

I'm certainly up for creating a definitive list! I can start that list with some quite vintage Dolby Stereo and SR trailers (which I suspect I've already passed your way B&D) - give me until the weekend to get things started.

Let's not forget that amazing SDDS preservation that guy did... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gN7yPyjDT4

Oh, that's a totally fair comment. It's an interesting relic in that the best preservations of a (presumably) digital animation are all derived from analogue film elements, and badly telecined ones in some cases - there's no perfect solution. I'm sure there are uses for all of these versions.

Speaking of cropping, Borisanddoris has mentioned the existence of a 2.35:1 'scope version on some laserdiscs. I'd love to see that added to the collection. edit: I just popped in my surviving Superbit DVD - the R3 release of Gattaca - and the scope version's there. Hard telecined unfortunately. I'll do an upscale when time permits.

Do Dolby trailers warrant an exploration or should we do a separate thread for those?

Here's my version. It's based on a straight upscale of the 16x9, NTSC DVD version - for what it's worth it was soft telecined so the 23.976 progressive frames could be cleanly extracted.

Hope it's of some use - it's nice to have options, anyway!

PM sent.

This is a nice preservation of the Mancini-scored Dolby SR trailer - 720p no less!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IHWa4eAENM

Unfortunately it doesn't have the original audio - I have a copy of a copy which might prove more authentic if they were to be synced up.

I'm trying to find an online version of another SR trailer with a bee flying around - again, I have a somewhat fuzzy version but it needs a better preservation than that.

This may be the version you're looking for (preview doesn't work, just download to view).

For reference only: it's captured from a second generation VHS copy, recorded off a 35mm print that the VHS owner tells me has long since gone. So this is as good as this source will get, but it might be of some use to help re-edit/reframe the versions we have.

(By the way, no idea how DTS sound ended up on the VHS HiFi track. Do DTS processors have an analogue monitoring output? Guess so...)

valinkrai said:

I believe it would depend what constitutes replacing their work. Is re compositing changing it in the same way that replacing an X-wing with a CGI version is? I'd say no myself as it's something I firmly believe any ILM employee would have wanted to do if he had the tech at the time, but It sound about right if you consider that as changing it.

Of course no self-respecting effects technician would deliberately use inferior tech - the point is that it was the very best possible at the time, and alterations (even digital recomposites) misrepresent those incredible achievements.

I honestly didn't care much about the differences, and for the most part, I still don't believe they change the films, though I love that you guys here are able to compensate for LucasFilm not giving options to those who don't think the same way as I do.

With all due respect, you don't seem particularly well qualified to talk about the history of ILM when you profess to have so little interest in that history...

borisanddoris said:

You said you have what is said to be the CDS mix but hard to sync.  What is your source?

He has my resync of the 1997 Artisan DVD 5.1. It's the CDS mix, I promise! But it's only intended to sync with the Skynet theatrical cut, which is where he had the problems.

The guy who made MultiAVCHD wrote up this tutorial on creating branched BD playlists:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=154815

Basically you create each 'chunk' as a separate BD folder, then use MultiAVCHD to link them into alternative playlists (then use BDedit to remove redundant elements).

I've used this technique to link separate elements on a multi-part Blu-ray (e.g. a new logo before the main feature) - it's the best way I've found to create such compilations without actually editing them together (and thus reencoding). Might be worth a try, but results do vary from one BD player to another.

I've done a few of these resyncs now, and this mix is certainly the most dynamic I've encountered. The relatively quiet dialogue does seem standard for this film - it's certainly a persistent issue in the 5.1 remixes (as reviewers have commented on).

Here's what the waveform looks like. The upper track is the BD's core AC-3 which I used as the basis for the sync - as you can see, the dynamic range is comparable there.

Ok folks, the PCM capture is ready for you to try out - PM me and I'll get links to you.

I opted for the Criterion capture in the end (mainly because the disc was in better shape) but to be honest there's very little between the two discs' tracks - if I didn't know better I'd think they were identical masters (at the very least they're struck from the same print). Video is another story, of course - the Criterion image is far better than the RCA/Columbia, but that's probably less of a surprise.

Anyway, I've synced the track to the current BD video as discussed. It's upsampled to 48KHz so the file is ready to use - just mux it in with your BD rip (the video stream is surprisingly small, so you should find that you can keep the existing TrueHD for comparison and still fit the movie on a single layer disc).

I hope it satisfies those looking for a more authentic aural experience as it has me - for best results dust off the Pro Logic setting on your amp and turn it up loud (it's a fairly dynamic mix, so brace yourselves for the proton beams!)

I have the Criterion and '92 RCA/Columbia discs on their way to me. I'll compare the two tracks and sync the winner (hopefully it won't be an apples and oranges situation - hybrids give me a headache).

By the way, I'll be syncing to the official BD rather than any less official versions - I figure that what it loses in accuracy it gains in availability (so my track will be more useful to more people). That said, if someone else would like to put some colour work in on the video, that would indeed be swell.

Does William H. Macy know he's going to star in this?

chyron8472 said:

I've been putting together some covers for Harmy's Despecialized restorations by cannibalizing parts of other covers and changing a few things here and there.

Given that those other covers you've 'cannibalized' were made by other people, perhaps some credit where credit's due is in order? 'Trademark' features of ABC and Coov's covers are plain to see in your design, and those are arguably the most successful parts (IMO, of course).