Jonno

Harmy said:

And can you make sure that it doesn't recode your content?

Yes, provided it's BD legal (at least, according to Adobe's definitions!)

edit: I just did a quick test using your latest encode. Encore hangs (indeed, locks up my PC entirely) when trying to use either the m2ts or the demuxed .264. Bummer.

I don't know much about x264 other that its Handbrake implementation - is closing the GOPs for a new encode an easy (and non-destructive) option as Chewie suggests?

Harmy said:

As to the menu, I was actually thinking about MultiAVHCD but I'm not sure what its capabilities are or how complicated it is. I do have Adobe Encore, that came with Premiere CS5.5 but I can't quite seem to figure it out.

MultiAVCHD has the advantage - alongside being free, of course - of making completely compatible BDs from a range of different sources (including existing BD folders). Having said that, I've found its menu interface limiting - it has a somewhat fixed toolbox, which is fine for basic front-ends but not hugely flexible for tailored presentations (e.g. audio selection is only available via a pop-up menu with preset design).

Encore, on the other hand, is far more versatile but doesn't like open-GOP x264 video - it chokes on import (as I found when attempting to make a fancy menu for your own SW:D). If we can overcome this in some way I'm happy to lend a hand - Encore's a fiddly mistress but great once you get the hang of it.

Ok folks, I just did The Motion Picture theatrical. It was well worth the effort, actually - it's a really interesting mix, albeit quite rough at times (Robert Wise was quite adamant that it be properly 'finished' when he did his later director's edition).

The Dolby TrueHD 7.1 on the Blu-ray is, in comparison, fairly faithful in content; however it includes a great deal of forced panning to (presumably) 'liven up' the soundfield. This 1991 laserdisc track sounds just as it would have on a 35mm print, rough edges and all... and yes, the music sounds great.

PM me for links.

Jetrell Fo said:

Anyone know for sure if Aliens & Alien 3 had theatrical DTS?

I can say with some certainty they didn't - Alien 3 predates theatrical DTS by a year or so (first major use on Jurassic Park in 1993, as brilliantly preserved earlier in this thread), and though it roughly coincided with the first use of Dolby Digital in 1992 it didn't even use that.

In fact both these films used the standard 80's model for the big-budget blockbuster - Dolby Stereo (SR in the case of Alien 3) for regular prints plus 70mm 6-track for the big boys. Aside from discrete channels, I've never found any evidence that either of these 70mm mixes were substantially different from the surround mixes (unlike, say, Alien and that Star Wars movie).

I'd like to - while I don't hold it in the same esteem as Khan, I do like the Motion Picture a lot. It's had an interesting release pattern, what with all the director's edition business and all, but a strong theatrical release could be made from the current Blu-ray together with the digital stereo from the 1991 laserdisc: http://www.lddb.com/laserdisc/11219/LV8858-2WS/Star-Trek-I:-The-Motion-Picture-%281979%29

While I have the Blu, I don't have that laser. Let me investigate further...

I like this guy for Son of Skywalker (he should be familiar to anyone who's still watching The Office):

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3821405

The original album releases weren't chronological either, but you could never mistake which part of the film you were hearing.

I feel quite the dilettante trying to educate someone on this when I've learnt this stuff so recently myself, but...

Most (all?) laserdiscs have analogue audio (hopefully with CX encoding) - you just use the L/R phono out to capture this.

More recent discs (mid 80s onwards) have digital PCM as well (aka digital SOUND) - with support for up to 2 channels - which you can capture via the optical output with a suitable soundcard. This is my typical method, Star Trek II no exception.

Top-notch discs include a modulated AC-3 stream (which can accommodate, and may always consist of, 5.1 channels). You need an RF decoder just to hear this. I do not own one.

DTS I know less about, though I believe it comes in a packaged bitstream which you can decode direct from the optical (as you would with a DVD).

I'm sure someone far more knowledgeable will correct me on part (or all) of this - it's been a steep learning curve since I've ignored laserdiscs entirely until the last two months. The lure of all these original soundmixes proved impossible to resist...

Is anyone actually in a position to do this? I have the tech (just about) but not the disc. And no-one's selling in the UK at present, sadly.

Gotcha.

Interesting - does that rip drop the Universal logo altogether or is it just the first few seconds of black?

I'm just uploading the mix now - when it's done I'll PM you chaps the links. If anyone else is interested let me know.

I'm finding myself doing a fair few of these at the moment - my tolerance for 5.1 remixes is getting thinner as I get older. I'll start a thread at some point to keep track of the ones I've done - the next will be a capture of the 35mm Alien mix (from the CAV special edition) to go with Msycamore's 70mm mix (from the THX laserdisc).

I am of course limited to digital PCM tracks here - I don't really have the resources nor inclination to go down the 5.1 AC-3 route, since they're often remixes and there are other folks on these boards who are already doing fine work on the important ones.

thorr said:

Exactly.  I didn't notice it, and I now will have to listen for it to see where it is in the music. 

City in the Clouds from ESB and Final Duel from RotJ are the prime examples. They're hardly subtle, but I'd agree that they use chorus much more effectively that the prequel scores (where CHOIR simply denotes EPIC).

Williams was doing far better work around that time anyway. I remember being particularly disappointed that he wasn't bringing this kind of inventiveness to his Star Wars scores:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2u9OjTYlJu0

Both ESB and RotJ had choirs in their scores.

bigrob said:

Jonno said:

I'm curious to know what the thinking is behind encoding mono as 2.0 dual as opposed to 1.0.

I personally appreciate the dual encoding for the simple reason that my receiver can't spread 1.0 across the front speakers (I only get the centre), but presumably the majority of people don't share this problem and 2.0 is just wasted space.

 out of curiosity Jon, what reciever have you got?

It's a Yamaha RX-V365, just coming into its fourth year of service! No HD audio, nothing above 5.1 and very few bells and whistles (mono handling a case in point).

Those caveats aside, it's a fine-sounding amp.

Mission Impossible (3 and 4) and Star Trek showed that Giacchino can do wonders with existing themes - Star Trek in particular managed to be both a great Trek score and a great Giacchino score, no mean feat.

Not to mention the incredible stuff he did for Lost - the evolution of character themes in that were at times quite stunning (unlike Williams' underwhelming efforts with the Anakin/Vader themes, and I don't think that can be entirely attributed to bad editing).

I'm curious to know what the thinking is behind encoding mono as 2.0 dual as opposed to 1.0.

I personally appreciate the dual encoding for the simple reason that my receiver can't spread 1.0 across the front speakers (I only get the centre), but presumably the majority of people don't share this problem and 2.0 is just wasted space.

Interesting - is there anything about the Criterion's track that sets it apart from the standard Columbia release?

In any event, a decent preservation of the theatrical stereo would be very welcome. I note that there was also a 70mm 6-track mix back in the day, though I'm having a hard time finding any details - it was likely one of those cases where the actual content of the mix differs little from the stereo. If anyone knows any better please chime in...

Yes, that's the same disc. I'd be interesting to know if you find side 2 to be a tad quieter than side 1.

The BD syncing is already done - I was just pondering this level issue before setting it in stone. I'm happy to share the result when it's done if you'd like a listen.

Thanks for the response. This is the 1991 US NTSC disc - I got a nice sealed copy.

I've done another capture with the same set-up (Back to the Future) and the levels are all a-ok - I suspect it's the disc. No problem, I'll give side B a 1db (or so) boost and that should even things out.

Hi folks. I just did a capture of the PCM audio from the 1991 laserdisc for another project, and thought you might be interested in hearing it. This is the disc:

I should say up front that I can't be certain if this is the theatrical mix - I guess some short-term remixing might have taken place for home video, I haven't found any evidence either way - but it's probably the closest we're going to get. It sounds considerably better than the Blu-ray DTS, at any rate!

Anyway, I've synced it to the Blu-ray video so it's an easy job to create a disc or file with tsMuxer or whatever. If you'd like a listen, drop me a pm.

Hi folks. I'm embarking on some laserdisc audio rips for various movies in an attempt to recover some otherwise-unreleased theatrical mixes. The first of these is Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan, and I've encountered a curious issue - perhaps someone more familiar with laserdisc in general can advise?

The sound captures fine at 44.1/16-bit via optical in on my Creative soundcard (not bit-perfect, but what you gonna do). It's a strong-sounding track, far more impressive than the timid 7.1 on the Blu-ray.

However, the overall level on side B appears to be lower than that of side A. It's not a dramatic difference, but at no point on the capture from the second side does the waveform reach the same peaks as the 'big moments' on side A: Khan's initial attack on the Enterprise, then Kirk's retaliation. I'd really expect the Mutara Nebula battle and the Genesis explosion to hit similar highs, but nope.

So I guess the question is - it it common (or even heard of) for the digital tracks on sides A and B of a laserdisc to be mastered at different levels? Or is this just a strange quirk of this mix, that it gets quieter as the film goes on? Any thoughts would be appreciated...

A bit of a side project here, but hopefully an interesting one!

It appears that the theatrical 5.1 mix for Terminator 2 was briefly available on the first issue R1 DVD (which wasn't around long before the marvellous special edition came along). See the second post here (from the very knowledgeable Disclord): http://forum.lddb.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1409

Since I was assembling a disc that included the theatrical cut of the film, I thought I'd look at syncing that mix to BD video. This involved using Womble, a rather blunt tool for such a job, but it meant that I could nip'n'tuck the track without reencoding. The result is a 5.1 AC-3 which matches the theatrical cut as found on the Skynet BD - not the greatest source for video, but by far the most common source for that cut.

I haven't studied the track for all of its differences with the later Rydstrom mix, but it certainly has a different feel. PM me if you'd like to try it out.

I don't know about pitifully low - I certainly haven't hesitated to switch straight to the original mix on the discs I've watched so far, and they sound perfectly fine (not that I'd dispute the preference to present archival mixes at the same quality as dubious upmixes).

The stereo tracks on the Moore and Dalton films are actually quite pleasing.

Illustration of cue dots (and coincidental reel markers), plus advert bumper image.